Utopians and Men of Faith

[alphamale]

Who has created more ill for mankind throughout history - men of faith or utopians? Spare me any ideological blather - this is purely an historical question. I say the utopians "win" by a mile.

[The Lone Ranger]

I'm not sure what you mean. After all, those aren't mutually-exclusive categories.

Was Hitler a "utopian"? Was Stalin? Was Pol Pot? These people had ideologies that could fairly be described as faith-based and their policies resulted in the murder of millions.

We'd need to know what, exactly, distinguishes a "utopian" from a "man of faith" before the question makes any sense.


Cheers,

Michael

[alphamale]

I'm not sure what you mean. After all, those aren't mutually-exclusive categories.

Was Hitler a "utopian"? Was Stalin? Was Pol Pot? These people had ideologies that could fairly be described as faith-based and their policies resulted in the murder of millions.

We'd need to know what, exactly, distinguishes a "utopian" from a "man of faith" before the question makes any sense.


Cheers,

Michael

By utopian, I mean people who work toward a society envisioned as optimal, convincing others usually but not always at gunpoint, and who have some body of non-religious intellectual works to back their ideas, e.g., such writers as Plato, Thomas More, Kant, Rousseau, and Hegel for communism.

By faith, I mean people who accept the idea of an optimal society based on religious ideas, or for which there is no body of supporting serious non-religious intellectual reasoning. Hitler is a difficult case - it's been a long time since I read Mein Kampf, but as I remember it was in no way an intellectual work. On the other hand, Hitler adopted many of the ideas of socialists - in fact fascism could be looked on as an off-shoot of socialism.

P.S.: Lose the "we", OK? That's another thing that drives me up the wall (for anyone other than Queen Elisabeth or the duly elected head of a delegation.)

[Crumb]

I dunno. :dunno: I don't put much stock in either clan.

[Adora]

We would like to point out that by your definitions, there is no real difference between a man of faith and a utopian, except their sources, so we think the question is facetious.

[alphamale]

We would like to point out that by your definitions, there is no real difference between a man of faith and a utopian, except their sources, so we think the question is facetious.

What is this place - the Mecca of the reading-challenged?? :D

[D. Scarlatti]

What is this place - the Mecca of the reading-challenged??

You've taken a wrong turn someplace. This is the Paris of the nobody-takes-you-seriously.

[godfry n. glad]

What is this place - the Mecca of the reading-challenged??

You've taken a wrong turn someplace. This is the Paris of the nobody-takes-you-seriously.

:roflmao:

We all agree.

[wei yau]

We would like to point out that by your definitions, there is no real difference between a man of faith and a utopian, except their sources, so we think the question is facetious.

We would like to further add to what we've said above but indicating the definitions differed in one other respect. Specifically, utopians tend to enforce their beliefs at gunpoint. This is further evidence that the question is facetious, as the definition of utopian is unfairly loaded. We have finished addressing this point.

[alphamale]

What is this place - the Mecca of the reading-challenged??

You've taken a wrong turn someplace. This is the Paris of the nobody-takes-you-seriously.

Scallopini, whatta you say you stick to the jokes section, eh? Good boy! :D

[godfry n. glad]

What is this place - the Mecca of the reading-challenged??

You've taken a wrong turn someplace. This is the Paris of the nobody-takes-you-seriously.

Scallopini, whatta you say you stick to the jokes section, eh? Good boy! :D


Well, what do you expect...that's all you warrant. Seeing as you've had your ass kicked multiple times and still keep spouting bullshit...you become joke fodder. It's distinctly not worth our time to converse with you, so we'll make fun of you.

Soon, you shall become pitiful joke fodder; you're not too far away.

[alphamale]

We would like to further add to what we've said above but indicating the definitions differed in one other respect. Specifically, utopians tend to enforce their beliefs at gunpoint. This is further evidence that the question is facetious, as the definition of utopian is unfairly loaded. We have finished addressing this point.

"We" again, eh? :D You must be Queen Elisabeth II ... or maybe just a queen.
Did you ever read up to, oh, say page 10 in a 20th century world history book?

[godfry n. glad]

We would like to further add to what we've said above but indicating the definitions differed in one other respect. Specifically, utopians tend to enforce their beliefs at gunpoint. This is further evidence that the question is facetious, as the definition of utopian is unfairly loaded. We have finished addressing this point.

"We" again, eh? :D You must be Queen Elisabeth II ... or maybe just a queen.
Did you ever read up to, oh, say page 10 in a 20th century world history book?

Did you ever consider you might have fallen into a collection of editors? No... You probably wouldn't even think of something like that.

The people here have a far better grasp of modern history than do you, alphamale. That has been demonstrated repeatedly.