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Petra
09-19-2004, 10:42 AM
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/09/13/opinion/13herbert.html

(NY Times requires a free reg, but I think it is well worth it. Otherwise use www.BugMeNot.com)

This article has left me speechless.

Oh, those great defenders of freedom and democracy - the modern Republican; the Neo Con. I fear their hegemony in so many ways. Wow.

Beth
09-19-2004, 07:06 PM
Excellent op-ed. Thank you for bringing it to my attention!

Petra
09-20-2004, 02:48 AM
You're welcome, Beth.

I find the op-ed to be completely believable due to what happened in Florida through Katherine Harris. The fact that the Republicans got away with it - even though it became public - must surely give them the confidence to try this again.

Add to that the need for 25,000 volunteers including 5,000 lawyers being posted to help people overcome these obstacles on Election Day really tells me something about the state of government corruption. You guys have some major issues that need to be addressed and sorted out over the next decade before your democracy completely rots from the inside. :(


Another thing that really got me, was that I had no idea Detroit was 80% black. In a GRD thread at II not so long ago, I jokingly referred to Detroit as being hell, as I had read about Detroit being the murder and crime capital of the US. (I'm pretty sure I read that in regards to some pro-Iraq war spam that was being discussed, piece by piece). I remember thinking that if that (what figure was given) is the annual murder rate in one American city, then you have some serious domestic problems that need to be addressed. Now that I know that Detroit is 80% black with all these problems, it raises a great many more questions in my mind regarding the systematic disenfranchisement of large groups of people in American society.

Beth
09-20-2004, 03:33 PM
I am amazed that they were able to get away with it, but many, including myself, were not exactly getting fair and balanced news. It was not until I read online sources and started watching BBC World News that I even heard of the apparant crookedness of the election. I think the media managed to hush it rather well. There are still many people who do not believe anything underhanded was done. And many more who think that God divinely appointed Shrub and that is why he made the Presidency.

I am not sure that Detroit is the murder capital, it may be but I have had trouble finding the stats. All I can find is this (http://tampatrib.com/FloridaMetro/MGB4IDTVSVD.html) which gave me the impression that Miami had the highest violent crime in the nation, with Tampa following. I am having trouble finding the most recent murder stats.

Now, I do know that the most dangerous areas to be in, or from what I have heard is what many people call 'black town'. It is a more slummish area in Tampa that predominately is populated by blacks. I admit that I get very nervous driving through it and was once under the impression that I was about to be accosted by a gang while pumping gas in that area so I took of in my car, leaving the $10.00 that I prepayed in gas umpumped. But this was in a very poor urban area with low property value, unkept property, and seemingly more bars than stores. So I assume that without a car, employment prospects seem a little grim.

I have also been in well cared for black areas that have a nice atmosphere and a community feel. I am not sure if the crime rates are lower there, but they feel safer. These areas also tend to have more better cared for parks or ball fields.

Perhaps the per capita income in areas plays a big hand in the crime in a particular area...maybe in the areas where poverty is highest, crime will also soar. But then, my area and Miami are some of the richest cities in the nation, we also have a higher population of whites. But then perhaps disparity between the classes is also higher with a greater gap.

I am just going on...but I think that maybe the incintives to help the poor are simply not there. We lost everything once. We were down to nearly nothing and it was seemingly impossible to get back up. We are not there quite yet, but it took an amazing amount of capital to jump through state hurdles to even start to break through the amazing oppression we felt. It seemed almost that the system was designed to oppress the poor and that one needed a certain income even to begin to take steps to prosper.

Maybe we disinfranchise the poor in America and not just an ethnic group. But then I wonder if we had not been so white if we ever would have made it through the barrier at all.

Sorry, just rambling.