Indian Call Centers Complain About Abusive Americans [Archive]

Dingfod

11-18-2005, 02:59 AM

Duh. (http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2005/11/17/BUGB3FPGT01.DTL&type=tech)

No offense to Indian call center representatives, if you've ever dealt with your company's outsourced customer service representatives in India you realize how frustrating it can be. Even though their English is passable, often their accents are heavy enough to make understanding them difficult. Couple that with people's friends, relatives, neighbors, and coworkers losing their jobs to this outsourcing trend it leads to a contentious relationship to begin with.

IT has gone to Montreal during business hours and India after hours, HR has gone to Costa Rica, and Benefits to Puerto Rico at my company. I personally, as tolerant as I am of other cultures and races, won't call unless I can't solve the problem any other way. My hearing isn't the greatest to begin with, then talk to me in heavily accented English and I'm lost. My reluctance often leads to having a really fucked up computer, fucked up enough to require hands-on intervention, which leads to someone locally working on it. Sorry, my foreign-comrades, I don't do it intentionally, it just ends up that way. OTOH, I've never been rude to the people on the other end of the line. I can state with complete certainty, they've never been rude to me either.

Petra

11-18-2005, 03:20 AM

What's even more frustrating is that you usually cannot call the company directly to voice complaints at not being able to understand, or be fully understood, by those poor buggers that are just trying to do their job as best they can.

Here, in NZ, I'm pissed off that foreign buyers of our real estate have driven housing costs up so high that land is out of the average Kiwi's price range now and rent is through the roof, so to speak. But that's not entirely the fault of those much richer foreigners buying the land, it is the fault of those who's policies create or allow such a situation to begin with.

That's globalisation for ya.

Veritas

11-18-2005, 03:28 AM

I saw a television programme recently where an Indian man was talking about British people, saying they are too lazy to work and that is why various companies are building call centres in India. His take on it was that Indians go to university and are willing to work hard.

I mean, come on...The reason Indians get the call centres is because they are willing to work for slave labour wages, let's get this straight. Big companies go where the costs are cheapest for them. The Indian gentleman speaking also made a big deal about going to university, which made me laugh out loud. I think it said a lot about his brain power that he needed to get a degree to work out how to use a switchboard.

Another point this TV programme made was, many Indians are told to adopt Anglicised names, so rather than Vikram, for instance, they would call themselves Victor, or Fiona for Fatima. Do they really think that people would object to someone's name? No, it's the strong accents that I object to - I just don't understand a lot of the time, although I will politely ask them to repeat what they are saying, I won't hang up. It just seems daft to me to Anglicise your name when it's obvious you're Indian.

Widget

11-18-2005, 03:31 AM

Do they sound like this?

Room Service (RS): "Morrin. ; Roon sirbees."
Guest (G): "Sorry, I thought I dialed room-service."

RS: "Rye..Roon sirbees..morrin! Jewish to oddor sunteen??"
G: "Uh..yes..I'd like some bacon and eggs."

RS: "Ow July den?"
G: "What??"

RS: "Ow July den?...pryed, boyud, poochd?"
G : "Oh, the eggs! How do I like them? Sorry, scrambled please."

RS: "Ow July dee baykem? Crease?"
G: "Crisp will be fine."

RS : "Hokay. An Sahn toes?"
G: "What?"

RS:"An toes. July Sahn toes?"
G: "I don't think so."

RS: "No? Judo wan sahn toes??"
G: "I feel really bad about this, but I don't know what 'judo wan sahn toes'means."

RS: "Toes! toes!...Why jew don juan toes? Ow bow Anglish moppin we bodder?"
G: "English muffin!! I've got it! You were saying 'Toast.' Fine. Yes, an English muffin will be fine."

RS: "We bodder?"
G: "No...just put the bodder on the side."

RS: "Wad! ?"
G: "I mean butter...just put it on the side."

RS: "Copy?"
G: "Excuse me?"

RS: "Copy...tea...meel?"
G: "Yes. Coffee, please, and that's all."

RS: "One Minnie. Scramah egg, crease baykem, Anglish moppin we bodder on sigh and copy....rye??"
G: "Whatever you say."

RS: "Tenjewberrymuds."
G : "You're very welcome.

Corona688

11-18-2005, 03:32 AM

Dingfod

11-18-2005, 03:48 AM

It just seems daft to me to Anglicise your name when it's obvious you're Indian.My last contact at the IT Help Desk said his name was "Gregory". Ri-i-i-i-ght. And my name is Rashidhamid Salideema.

Petra

11-18-2005, 03:55 AM

...disconnect...

Yup. Disconnect is a good word. Globalisation touts itself as 'closing gaps', but it has probably just created great gaping holes that echo with resentment.

Yup. Huge disconnect. And way too many scripts, 'lean and mean' business formulae, canned helpline phone message menus, time and people meaning nothing more than money...

Fuckers.

John Carter

11-18-2005, 05:57 AM

Whenever I find myself talking to outsourced tech support, they're always reading from scripts. I don't think it's because they're Indian, but because of the huge disconnect between them, their employers, and the people they're helping. They wouldn't have much freedom or flexibility in how the deal with them, they probably HAVE to read from the scripts.

I once worked for a company here in the US that did outsourced tech support. At the time, they had contracts with HP, Gateway and Dell. They also did MSN and MSN-TV anmog other companies. The location I was working at had the Gateway and MSN-TV contracts. First, the Gateway contract went to India, and almost everyone was laid off. I was fortunate enough to be one of the 10% that was offered a job on a different contract. That lasted a whole 3 months before the MSN-TV contract went to Canada.

On each contract I worked on, there were no scripts per se, but there were certain things that had to be said at some point during each call. For example, we were required to ask each custoomer if we could use their given name, and then we had to use that name a certain number of times in the course of the call.

alphamale

11-18-2005, 06:20 AM

When I took advanced statistics at Ohio State, there was an indian prof teaching it. He said "we are now going to double up a theorem. Pay attention because we are going to double up many more theorems based on this." I thought how the fuck do you double up a theorem? It was a little way into the class that I realized he was saying "develop a theorem". There were a number of students who started complaining about not understanding foreign teaching associates. The foreign TA's angrily struck back in the campus paper, complaining about casual speech like "going to class?" instead of "are you going to class?".

ms_ann_thrope

11-18-2005, 06:37 AM

I wonder how many of the irate and abusive callers ever make the connection between their own materialism and globalization?

"The Call Center" sitcom sounds hilarious.

Dingfod

11-18-2005, 06:43 AM

ms_ann_thrope

11-18-2005, 08:11 PM

I wonder how many of the irate and abusive callers ever make the connection between their own materialism and globalization?Please connect the dots for me. Spell out the connection for those less informed than your enlightened self.No need to be snarky.

Why do companies outsource? To lower operating costs. Why do companies want to lower costs? To increase their net profits and/or enable them to sell their products at a price point below that of their competitors. Why do they care about hitting certain price points or "sweet spots"? Because when consumers can buy products for low prices, that means that the consumers have more income available to buy even more stuff. We must have lots of stuff, of course! Repeat vicious circle, each time spiraling lower. Globalization is pretty much a race to the bottom, if you ask me.

I just continually find it surprising that when buying a 3 GHz Dell PC for $349, for example, it doesn't occur to a consumer that a big part of how that low price gets to be what it is comes from Dell driving down its costs on everything in the value chain from building-block components to post-sale technical support. If having local/native tech support is important, PC buyers can look to a regional mom-and-pop integrator. Sure, they'll pay more for their box, but they'll likely get a better machine, with better post-sale service, AND they'll be contributing to their local economy at the same time. Which sounds pretty good to me.

LadyShea

11-18-2005, 08:50 PM

Like Corona, the problem I encountered with outsourced service was their complete lack of authority and resources to go beyond whatever they have been scripted, because they don't actually work in the business they are providing service for. I called my mortgage company, was transferred to India, and he didn't understand what it was I wanted, or couldn't figure out from my description what the exact terminology he should use, so said "I can't help you, sorry". That was it, no "Ill call you back", no "I'll find out", or "Let me transfer you to someone who can help..."

What on Earth does someone in India know about US Mortgage issues?

TomJoe

11-18-2005, 09:57 PM

LadyShea

11-18-2005, 11:11 PM

What on Earth does someone in India know about US Mortgage issues?

Nothing, but why should your mortgage company care? Not like many people drop mortgage companies at a moments notice because of failed customer service.

I did, I was refinancing at the time ;) Pissed me off enough I didn't refi with them

That was CitiMortgage by the way. Dunno if they still outsource.

TomJoe

11-18-2005, 11:14 PM

I did, I was refinancing at the time ;) Pissed me off enough I didn't refi with them.

Heh.

That was CitiMortgage by the way. Dunno if they still outsource.

Hopefully I'll be in the market for a house within the next year or so. Figured I'll rent during my post-doc because it's only for 2-3 years (4 maximum by federal standards, and then I'm pushed out the door) and when I get a permanent job, buy the house (cause renting with two dogs is a bitch!). I never figured customer service would be outsourced, so I'll have to look into this.

Ensign Steve

11-19-2005, 01:27 AM

Another point this TV programme made was, many Indians are told to adopt Anglicised names, so rather than Vikram, for instance, they would call themselves Victor, or Fiona for Fatima. Do they really think that people would object to someone's name? No, it's the strong accents that I object to - I just don't understand a lot of the time, although I will politely ask them to repeat what they are saying, I won't hang up. It just seems daft to me to Anglicise your name when it's obvious you're Indian.
I saw a bit on MadTV or Saturday Night Live or somewhere about this. The guy missed the mark and called himself Abraham Lincoln. Shortly thereafter, my hubby called customer service for something or other and the rep's name was Abraham. My hubby could barely conduct the phone call, he was so overcome with hysterics.

MonCapitan2002

11-20-2005, 01:14 PM

I think outsourcing cutomer service jobs to anyplace outside the Unites States (for serving customers living in the United States) should be outlawed. Any company guilty of outsourcing such jobs should face taxes on revenue of 99%.

Widget

11-20-2005, 05:32 PM

Is outsourcing much different than consumers buying off shore goods...isn't the end result the same?

xyza

11-20-2005, 05:41 PM

Okay both of these links (to short cartoons) are relevent to this thread and both come with parental advice, so those amongst you who are sensitive please BE WARNED NOW :yup:

Tech Support (http://www.illwillpress.com/tech.html)http://hand.asparis7.com/parental_advisory.gif Tech Support 2 (http://www.illwillpress.com/tech2.html)

PS. We need a parental advisory sign :yup:

Crumb

11-20-2005, 05:46 PM

PS. We need a parental advisory sign :yup:
:yup:

xyza

11-20-2005, 05:49 PM

Oh should I say those links contain swearing and maybe a racist attitude, but the latter depends on your feelings towards call companies being foreign.

viscousmemories

11-20-2005, 06:02 PM

The first one was cute and not really racist (imo) but the little sing-song at the end ("Keep the jobs in the US... so I can understand who I'm talking to") was pretty stupid. Foreign accents aren't exactly a rarity in the US either. It wasn't cute enough for me to watch the second one, though. :P

xyza

11-20-2005, 06:39 PM

I didn't find them cute :eek:
But anyway, the second goes on about hours and lack of breaks in India that is :didi:

Dingfod

11-20-2005, 09:24 PM

Is outsourcing much different than consumers buying off shore goods...isn't the end result the same?Not necessarily. Buying Japanese, Swiss and German still generally means good quality. I would imagine a call center in one of those countries would provide as fine a service as could be obtained anywhere.

livius drusus

11-20-2005, 10:07 PM

My job is actually mid-outsource process even as we speak. It's really and truly an unspeakable pooch screw on every possible level. I can't even bare the thought of explaining all the stupidity and dysfunction; there's just too much of it.

I don't know if the people at my company are as rude to the Mumbai help desk reps as they would be when dealing with their home service, but they certainly have nothing good to say about the poor fellows. I've found them curteous and well-meaning, but completely ignorant of company specs. A script and 2 hour orientation is simply not enough training for the job they have to do.

ms_ann_thrope

11-20-2005, 11:45 PM

My job is actually mid-outsource process even as we speak. :sadcheer: I'm sorry to hear that. Will you still have a position, or will you be "RIF"ed?

I've found them curteous and well-meaning, but completely ignorant of company specs. A script and 2 hour orientation is simply not enough training for the job they have to do.Hopefully they will get up to speed over time. Of course, that will require that they stay in their jobs long enough to learn... I find poetic justice in the fact that many companies (mine included) are having a hard time with employee retention in India; the market is so hot there right now, people jump around from job to job like crazy for just a couple of dollars (literally) more.

In the meantime, I get to deal with a constant influx of new hires on my projects, which is never particularly easy even in the best of conditions, but now add in a 13.5 hour time difference, accents I can't understand (I have a hearing problem), and every other day being a friggin' holiday, and hoo boy... the "distributed workforce model" kinda blows. :sadcheer: :sadcheer:

Godless Dave

11-21-2005, 07:50 AM

They wouldn't have much freedom or flexibility in how the deal with them, they probably HAVE to read from the scripts.

They do have to read from scripts. They are also expected to keep their average call time at or below a certain target. They can get in trouble for deviating from script, being on the phone too long, and failing to say the complete scripted greeting and closing.

MooseIBe

11-21-2005, 10:33 AM

To be honest, the service from a phone company I use is now WAY better given that it's located to India. The people actually seem to know what they're talking about.

I hope they send national rail enquiries over there too. It couldn't get any fucking worse.

Godless Dave

11-21-2005, 12:30 PM

livius drusus

11-21-2005, 01:08 PM

:sadcheer: I'm sorry to hear that. Will you still have a position, or will you be "RIF"ed?

I'm taking my severance and running. I could have gotten another position, probably, but it's just not a company I want to work for.

Hopefully they will get up to speed over time. Of course, that will require that they stay in their jobs long enough to learn... I find poetic justice in the fact that many companies (mine included) are having a hard time with employee retention in India; the market is so hot there right now, people jump around from job to job like crazy for just a couple of dollars (literally) more.

Interesting. It's impossible to keep track of who comes and goes from our side of the phone, but it would certainly explain why the support model has so consistently failed since it was introduced almost a month ago.

In the meantime, I get to deal with a constant influx of new hires on my projects, which is never particularly easy even in the best of conditions, but now add in a 13.5 hour time difference, accents I can't understand (I have a hearing problem), and every other day being a friggin' holiday, and hoo boy... the "distributed workforce model" kinda blows. :sadcheer: :sadcheer:

Yes. Yes it does.

Megatron

11-21-2005, 01:43 PM

This thread is pretty much the exact reason I haven't handed in my separation papers from the military.

MooseIBe

11-21-2005, 02:34 PM

If you're talking about BT then I'm not surprised that barely trained employees who can't speak the language would improve their service.

Someone who works in the database department of the national rail posts at a forum I frequent. She has some horror stories.

Yeah .. can you share them? I don't use them anymore because they are worse than bad .. they are appalling. Even when I did use to use them I tended to phone three or four times to check the info given and quite often would get four different answers.

The crunch came one day when I phoned up and got someone who insisted repeatedly that there was not a rail line between Brighton and London, so sorry.

JoeP

11-21-2005, 07:29 PM

:sadcheer: I'm sorry to hear that. Will you still have a position, or will you be "RIF"ed?

I'm taking my severance and running. I could have gotten another position, probably, but it's just not a company I want to work for.
liv :sadnana:
Where are you running with your severance? Will you get another position easily?

And what does "RIF"ed mean?