Questions for American People.

[Paul H.]

First, see here:

http://www.freethought-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5193&page=1



This is an odd group of questions - would appreciate straight answers without sarcasm.


- Is the USA a democracy? What is the role of the ‘Electoral College’?

- How much longer do you think the effects of slave importation will last?

- Do most Americans feel loyalty to the President? Because he's the president?

- Do most American people think that people like Mexicans living in the USA are really and truly "American" or just American citizens and/or residents?

- Is there any real chance that Texas or California will break away from the USA in say, the next 20 years?

- If they did, would the North-East let them? (It didn’t, last time)

- Do Americans feel any "togetherness" with any other part of the globe? At all?

- Is there any underlying tension between ordinary American people and ‘Indians’ or ‘Eskimos’ - because of history?

- Finally, the big question:

Why do American people commonly use the word "fix" to mean “make”, as in “fix" a meal. Is the meal broken? (Or was it going somewhere?)

[John Carter]

First, see here:

http://www.freethought-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5193&page=1



This is an odd group of questions - would appreciate straight answers without sarcasm.



Keep in mind that the US is a very large and extremely diverse nation. Regional cultural differences can be pretty large.


- Is the USA a democracy? What is the role of the ‘Electoral College’?


Technically, it's a republic. Here is an old thread (http://www.freethought-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=932&highlight=electoral+college) that discusses the Electoral College in some detail.


- How much longer do you think the effects of slave importation will last?


Depends on what you mean by "effects". I'm going to assume you mean the effects of slavery, since slavery in the US did not end when the African slave trade ceased and slaves could no longer be imported. Many plantations in the antebellum south went into the slave breeding business when that happened.

Things are getting better, but we still have a very long way to go.


- Do most Americans feel loyalty to the President? Because he's the president?


Certainly not in the same way a British subject might have loyalty to the Queen.


- Do most American people think that people like Mexicans living in the USA are really and truly "American" or just American citizens and/or residents?


That depends a lot on the region I think. The county where I currently reside has a hispanic population of over 50%. Most the their families have been living in this region since well before it became a US territory, much less a state. I have been told that anti-mexican racism was pretty bad here as recently as the 1950's and '60's, as bad as anything directed at blacks in the old Jim Crow south. Now, however, there is no tension to speak of.


- Is there any real chance that Texas or California will break away from the USA in say, the next 20 years?


No.


- If they did, would the North-East let them? (It didn’t, last time)


No.


- Do Americans feel any "togetherness" with any other part of the globe? At all?


Unfortunately, I can't see that most do.


- Is there any underlying tension between ordinary American people and ‘Indians’ or ‘Eskimos’ - because of history?


Most definitely. It's very under reported, but for the most part Indians, as a group, are in far worse shape in this country than any other minority. By a very wide margin.


- Finally, the big question:

Why do American people commonly use the word "fix" to mean “make”, as in “fix" a meal. Is the meal broken? (Or was it going somewhere?)

/me shrugs

[Megatron]

- Is the USA a democracy? What is the role of the ‘Electoral College’?Sort of, that's a rather difficult question to answer. There is no "true" majority rule, if that's what you're asking - and the role of the Electoral College is to bollocks up the election process.

- How much longer do you think the effects of slave importation will last?Heh, that's like asking how much longer the effects of the sun will last - until the end of the world.

- Do most Americans feel loyalty to the President? Because he's the president?I can't answer for most Americans, but I can say for me that I don't feel loyalty to anyone solely based on his/her position - and I'm in the military. Loyalty is a feeling - a state of mind based on trust and respect. That's earned, not given.

- Do most American people think that people like Mexicans living in the USA are really and truly "American" or just American citizens and/or residents?Again, I can't answer for "most Americans" ... and I don't exactly know what qualifies as people "like Mexicans." We have a shit-ton of immigrants in the USA because we're a country built by immigrants, for immigrants. I'd guess that they are no more or less American than I am... being only a 4th generation American myself.

As far as "illegal immigrants" go, well, that's a whole different can of worms, and a goddamn convoluted one at that. Some discussion about that here (http://www.freethought-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5410) ...but it hardly even scratches the surface.

- Is there any real chance that Texas or California will break away from the USA in say, the next 20 years? No.

- If they did, would the North-East let them? (It didn’t, last time) No.

- Do Americans feel any "togetherness" with any other part of the globe? At all? Again, that's really general, but I'd say probably not.

- Is there any underlying tension between ordinary American people and ‘Indians’ or ‘Eskimos’ - because of history? I'd say so, yeah... lots of it. Like already mentioned, however, it goes largely unreported.

- Finally, the big question:

Why do American people commonly use the word "fix" to mean “make”, as in “fix" a meal. Is the meal broken? (Or was it going somewhere?)
As far as I know, that's mostly a southern colloquialism that spread around. *shrug* It's just slang, like a bizillion other words we have out here.

[seebs]

I think it's by analogy to the function of a fixative, to join things together.

(As to the rest: I dunno. I mean, I suppose I know some of these, but I find myself not much caring.)

[Sarpedon]

First, see here:

http://www.freethought-forum.com/fo...p?t=5193&page=1



This is an odd group of questions - would appreciate straight answers without sarcasm.


- Is the USA a democracy? What is the role of the ‘Electoral College’?

- How much longer do you think the effects of slave importation will last?

- Do most Americans feel loyalty to the President? Because he's the president?

- Do most American people think that people like Mexicans living in the USA are really and truly "American" or just American citizens and/or residents?

- Is there any real chance that Texas or California will break away from the USA in say, the next 20 years?

- If they did, would the North-East let them? (It didn’t, last time)

- Do Americans feel any "togetherness" with any other part of the globe? At all?

- Is there any underlying tension between ordinary American people and ‘Indians’ or ‘Eskimos’ - because of history?

- Finally, the big question:

1. Yes and no. Yes in that the votes of the people do determine representatives. No in the fact that the two party system has a virtual stranglehold on politics, and it is rare for unaffiliated people to hold high offices. There are maybe three independants in congress, and a couple independant governors.

The electoral college, by custom, casts its vote for whomever gets the majority of popular votes per state. Each state has as many electoral votes as congresspeople. In theory, the electors could vote for people other than who is elected by the populace, and in the past some states have split their electoral votes in particularly tight elections. (sadly, florida did not do this in 2000)

2. I don't quite understand this question. the slave trade was abolished in the 1840s, I think. I fail to see how it affects things now. Are you perhaps asking how much longer racial inequality will last? I cannot speculate. Things seem to be getting better, as more and more people of color reach middle and upper class levels. No real end in sight though.

3. Many Americans unfortunately do feel that its a duty to support the government. This is more common among conservatives.In general, only if they share the same party affiliation.

4. Most americans are proud of their roots. A naturalized Mexican is still a Mexican-american, just as there are many Irish americans, french americans, and english americans. There is some more hostility to Mexicans because as a group they are somewhat easier to identify as different.

5 and 6 together. There is no chance of any US state to break away. 11 of them tried it once, and were duly reconquered. The theory is that since the government of the united states is democratic, the only reason a state would break away is to avoid the majority opinion, and set up a situation where the majority becomes the minority and vice versa. Thus, the government has the right to suppress separitist movements.

7. Generally, only liberals feel solidarity with people of other countries. There is a conservative ideal of the 'city on a hill' which is the United states. Separate from, and an inspiration to, the rest of the world. Also, above concern with the ways of the foreigners. I have heard conservative race and scare mongering against even our closest allies, Britain and Canada, to say nothing of countries like France, Russia, China, Japan, etc. Even Israel is viewed by them as a necessary evil to bring about the end of the world. To be supported, but not loved, as they are all doomed christ killers anyhow.

8. The tension is not at all underlying, but very close to the surface. Native leaders frequently protest government policies, and cultural stereotypes. They also do their best to obstruct archaeology and scientific efforts to discover their history. Most americans tend to ignore them, as they are few in number and politically insignificant. The only native american in congress, I believe, is a man named Dark Horse from Colorado (I think)

9. We use fix to refer to preparing things (especially meals) because fix means not only to repair, but also to make something imperfect into something better. The individual ingredients of a meal are not percieved as being as good as the finished product, so transforming them thus is seen as an improvement, thus, a "fix."

[godfry n. glad]

First, see here:

http://www.freethought-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5193&page=1



This is an odd group of questions - would appreciate straight answers without sarcasm.

Okay

- Is the USA a democracy? What is the role of the ‘Electoral College’?

It's a democratic republic. Suffrage is limited to adults over age 18. It consists of several states federated into a republic. Our founding fathers did not trust mobs, so the Electoral College was viewed as a means of tempering the mob, by selecting representatives, aside from our legislative representatives, to cast the vote for the state's voters in the presidential election. There is no direct popular vote for president and vice president.

- How much longer do you think the effects of slave importation will last?

Probably until a sufficient portion of the population has interbred. When differentiation becomes more difficult. However, I suspect another differentiator may come into play.

- Do most Americans feel loyalty to the President? Because he's the president?

That depends upon the performance of the particular president. There are those who do feel loyalty, for sure. But I'd say that most feel loyalty to their country, rather than their president.

- Do most American people think that people like Mexicans living in the USA are really and truly "American" or just American citizens and/or residents?

That depends upon their legal status. If they are Mexicans intent upon returning to Mexico, then they are aliens. If they are Mexicans intent upon naturalizing, then I consider them to be immigrants until they gain their citizenship. I consider this country to be founded upon the migration of other peoples to this nation.

- Is there any real chance that Texas or California will break away from the USA in say, the next 20 years?


No.

- If they did, would the North-East let them? (It didn’t, last time)

No.

- Do Americans feel any "togetherness" with any other part of the globe? At all?

Sure. English-speaking ones. Canada, UK, Australia, New Zealand, South Africa.

- Is there any underlying tension between ordinary American people and ‘Indians’ or ‘Eskimos’ - because of history?

Yes.

- Finally, the big question:

Why do American people commonly use the word "fix" to mean “make”, as in “fix" a meal. Is the meal broken? (Or was it going somewhere?)

It's easier to say than "assemble".

[curses]

- How much longer do you think the effects of slave importation will last?
Probably until a sufficient portion of the population has interbred. When differentiation becomes more difficult. However, I suspect another differentiator may come into play.

Not to derail the thread, but would you mind expanding on this? What other differentiator are you referring to?

[godfry n. glad]

- How much longer do you think the effects of slave importation will last?
Probably until a sufficient portion of the population has interbred. When differentiation becomes more difficult. However, I suspect another differentiator may come into play.

Not to derail the thread, but would you mind expanding on this? What other differentiator are you referring to?


Physical features, primarily skin color, but including other traits, as discriminators between peoples will be diluted by interracial breeding. The more of this which occurs, the more difficult it becomes to differentiate "people of color" from the predominant appearance of the population.

I suspect that once this occurs, however, that another differentiator will arise to distinguish "us" from "them". I can't tell you what it will be, but language or distinctive cultural triats I suspect would be candidates. I suspect this differentiation of types within the population is often manufactured and manipulated to keep people divided in regards to some other social benefit, of which many of those divided are being deprived of by virture of their conflict, by those manufacturing the conflict between "us" and "them", however you might wish to imagine what fills those categories.

[ms_ann_thrope]

- Is the USA a democracy? What is the role of the ‘Electoral College’?
It's a representative democracy; EC is the mechanism to achieve it. No "one man, one vote" --- which is a good idea given how many frickin' idiots are enfranchised.

- How much longer do you think the effects of slave importation will last?
Until we're all the same color tan.

- Do most Americans feel loyalty to the President? Because he's the president?
Probably yes to both your questions. I myself think he's an asshat. I feel loyalty to the idea of America, not one person or group.

- Do most American people think that people like Mexicans living in the USA are really and truly "American" or just American citizens and/or residents?
Huh? To me, "Mexican" means "citizen of Mexico." Someone born and raised here I consider 100% American. Naturalized, I consider American citizen. Neither born here nor naturalized, I would consider them a resident.

- Is there any real chance that Texas or California will break away from the USA in say, the next 20 years?
I wish!!!! Doubtful that the the other 49 would give up CA, though; even though many in the rest of the country think we're a bunch of immoral freaks, we *are* a cash cow in terms of our tax contribution to the feds, and to the economy in general.

- If they did, would the North-East let them? (It didn’t, last time)
See above. CA's restrictive gun laws don't help the chances for a successful secession, either.

- Do Americans feel any "togetherness" with any other part of the globe? At all?
I suppose I feel some sort of "togetherness" with the countries that my family came from: Germany, Ireland, Italy. And now thanks to marriages, I feel some togetherness with Greece, Japan, and Taiwan.

- Is there any underlying tension between ordinary American people and ‘Indians’ or ‘Eskimos’ - because of history?
Not for me, but I do feel oddly guilty about the war in Viet Nam every time I go for pho.

- Finally, the big question:

Why do American people commonly use the word "fix" to mean “make”, as in “fix" a meal. Is the meal broken? (Or was it going somewhere?)
"Fix a plate" (= "Serve up portions of entree and sides) in my experience is mostly a Southern expression, but more commonly I hear meals described as "having all the fixin's" (i.e., trimmings/sides). One of the definitions of fix is "to make ready or prepare."

In a sense, "fix a meal" might be a more accurate, catch-all expression than "cook a meal," for example, as cooking implies the heating of food. "Prepare" would be a good synonym, but it has 2 syllables as opposed to the 1 in "fix," and you know us Americans, we're both lazy and efficient. :P

[Sock Puppet]

- Is the USA a democracy? What is the role of the ‘Electoral College’?
The USA is a representative republic with democratic elements. The Electoral College has already been discussed at length, but I'd like to emphasize that it is involved in ONLY the Presidential/Vice Presidential election. There's a helluva lot more to vote about on most ballots. The President has a great deal of power, but he doesn't run everything from soup to nuts. "One man/one vote" is technically accurate for the other elections, except that political, economic and even geographic factors make some votes more equal than others.

- How much longer do you think the effects of slave importation will last?
The effects are permanent. Might as well ask how long it takes for energy to be destroyed. Although I may not understand the question.

- Do most Americans feel loyalty to the President? Because he's the president?
Americans feel loyalty to a President they voted for. Many in one party get pissed off when those in the other party don't pay "appropriate" respect for the office, then they turn around and act the same way when the other party wins.

- Do most American people think that people like Mexicans living in the USA are really and truly "American" or just American citizens and/or residents?
It's hard for me to gauge what most American people think about this issue, as I live on the Left Coast, which has everybody from frothy-mouthed socialists to Democrats to moderates to Republicans to right-wing extremist nutbags. Middle America seems more homogenous in its thinking from the outside, but there's a variety of opinion there too; it's just more muted. But from what I can tell, most consider citizenship to define nationality; even a lot of strong conservatives pay lip service to the contribution of immigrants.

- Is there any real chance that Texas or California will break away from the USA in say, the next 20 years?
California certainly could survive as a separate nation, being something like the 6th largest economic power in the world. But getting there is the trick. Either state would need a huge amount of motivation even to get started on such a process, let alone accomplishing it. In 20 years? Not a chance.

- If they did, would the North-East let them? (It didn’t, last time)
Nope.

- Do Americans feel any "togetherness" with any other part of the globe? At all?
Like godfry mentioned, there's some sense of commonality with the other English-speaking nations, but only among the less insular Americans.

- Is there any underlying tension between ordinary American people and ‘Indians’ or ‘Eskimos’ - because of history?
There is, near the reservation lands, at least some tension on both sides. But many "ordinary" American people don't encounter "Indians" or "Eskimos" in large numbers anywhere outside of their television screens.

Why do American people commonly use the word "fix" to mean “make”, as in “fix" a meal. Is the meal broken? (Or was it going somewhere?)
It's not much of a jump from fix = reassemble to fix = assemble from scratch. :shrug: What I want to know is why "slow up" means the same thing as "slow down."

[ms_ann_thrope]

Sock Puppet, will you help me try to secede?

[godfry n. glad]

I've suggested that the United States needs to be about five or six smaller nations.

I'd really love it if the Pacific Northwest would secede and join lower British Columbia and southwestern Alberta to form a new nation. I'd be willing to give up eastern Montana and most of Alberta to the flatlanders. Basically, I think those in the Columbia River Basin and adjacent smaller watersheds have a whole lot more in common than any of them do with the likes of Florida, Ontario, New York or Texas.

There have been semi-serious attempts of northern California and southwestern Oregon to secede from their respective states and form a new U.S. state, tenatively named "Jefferson". I'm not sure that California could successfully secede without splitting into two nations.

[Sock Puppet]

Sock Puppet, will you help me try to secede?
With your friend Gojira's help, we might have a chance after all.

I'm not sure that California could successfully secede without splitting into two nations.
It would be easier if we could leave off Orange County.

[inyourhonor]

This is an odd group of questions - would appreciate straight answers without sarcasm.

You destroy my purpose.

Okay, I'll play along.


- Is the USA a democracy? What is the role of the ‘Electoral College’?

Yes. It's a Representive Democracy. The electoral college was put in place to keep any one state from having too much influence...or something along those lines. It's been several semesters since I've had a history or poly sci course.

- How much longer do you think the effects of slave importation will last?

Well, policies will probably change in the next 20 years, maybe some sooner. But rascism, larger issues, I don't believe will ever go away.

- Do most Americans feel loyalty to the President? Because he's the president?

I think that's the only reason a lot of people do. But it's not so much loyalty as it is a willfullness to cooperate in an effort toward solidarity.

- Do most American people think that people like Mexicans living in the USA are really and truly "American" or just American citizens and/or residents?

If they have citizenship, green card, some kind of papers, even a student visa, I don't see a lot of people seeing them as any less citizens than themselves. But then, I live in a secluded college town, at a very liberal arts school.

- Is there any real chance that Texas or California will break away from the USA in say, the next 20 years?

No. I have a fantasy of Los Angeles being retaken by Mexico though, and Robert Rodriguez will be El Presidente.

- If they did, would the North-East let them? (It didn’t, last time)

With enough ambition and money, anything is possible...but I doubt it.

- Do Americans feel any "togetherness" with any other part of the globe? At all?

I think we should. As humans, we can connect on that level. By our differences, we're defined as equal too.

- Is there any underlying tension between ordinary American people and ‘Indians’ or ‘Eskimos’ - because of history?

I don't feel any tension. I don't know any 'Eskimos.' I'd think it'd be too cold for there to be tension, but, fishing and wildlife preservation may be at odds with their lifestyles. I don't know. There is some tension for the 'Indians', many living in near-poverty. The American Indian Movement (AIM) can probably tell you more. See the case of Leonard Peltier for more on current Native American treatment.

- Finally, the big question:

Why do American people commonly use the word "fix" to mean “make”, as in “fix" a meal. Is the meal broken? (Or was it going somewhere?)

Or, I'm "Fixin' to." It's a dialect / slang / usage thing. Y'all have some pretty weird ones too. Like, why would fixing something imply it was going somewhere?

[viscousmemories]

It would be easier if we could leave off Orange County.
:glare:

Okay, that's just mock indignation. I only lived in Dana Point for a year or so and I wasn't in any way invested there.

[alphamale]

[QUOTE=Paul H.]First, see here:

http://www.freethought-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5193&page=1



This is an odd group of questions - would appreciate straight answers without sarcasm.


- Is the USA a democracy? What is the role of the ‘Electoral College’?

Yes. The electoral college is the group of persons who actually elect the president, and are allocated to each state based on how many representatives to congress the state has, plus two for the two senators. When americans vote in a presidential election, they are actually voting for a pre-determined set of electors, although the names of presidential candidates appear on the ballot so as not to confuse brainwashed liberals. Low population states may therefore have proportionally more effect on the outcome. This is not an oversite or accident in the constitution - it reflects the fact that the U.S., is a federal republic, originally almost a union of seperate countries, as opposed to e.g. monolithic democracies like France.

- How much longer do you think the effects of slave importation will last?

They've been gone for a very long time. The race hustler industry, on the other hand, with its practioners such as Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson, is alive and well.

- Do most Americans feel loyalty to the President? Because he's the president?

Most conservatives would feel loyalty in wartime to any president, republican or democrat. Liberals rarely feel loyalty to any president, in war or peace.

- Do most American people think that people like Mexicans living in the USA are really and truly "American" or just American citizens and/or residents?

A great deal of them aren't american in any way, shape, or form, as a visit to the southwest U.S. would confirm for anyone with eyes, ears, and an IQ over 80.

- Is there any real chance that Texas or California will break away from the USA in say, the next 20 years?

No.

- If they did, would the North-East let them? (It didn’t, last time)

No, but as Barry Goldwater said, it's unfortunate for the rest of the country that someone couldn't concoct a giant saw and cut right down the Hudson River, and let the eastern part drift out to sea and sink.

- Do Americans feel any "togetherness" with any other part of the globe? At all?

Not for most. The average american grows up hearing a ceaseless stream of criticism from other countries.

- Is there any underlying tension between ordinary American people and ‘Indians’ or ‘Eskimos’ - because of history?

No, but one result is indians try to make up for it by living in the nineteenth century, except for the one's who are becoming casino billionaires.

- Finally, the big question:

Why don't you think up your own original questionaire?

[alphamale]

[QUOTE=Paul H.]
- Is the USA a democracy? What is the role of the ‘Electoral College’?Sort of, that's a rather difficult question to answer. There is no "true" majority rule, if that's what you're asking - and the role of the Electoral College is to bollocks up the election process.

You were jerking off during government class? Retardate.

- How much longer do you think the effects of slave importation will last?Heh, that's like asking how much longer the effects of the sun will last - until the end of the world.

Like asking you any government question - you don't know shit from apple pie. :D

- Do most Americans feel loyalty to the President? Because he's the president?I can't answer for most Americans, but I can say for me that I don't feel loyalty to anyone solely based on his/her position - and I'm in the military. Loyalty is a feeling - a state of mind based on trust and respect. That's earned, not given.

You're in the military - got in when they lowered the standards, eh? Christ - we're doomed.

[Jesus Christ]

They've been gone for a very long time. The race hustler industry, on the other hand, with its practioners such as Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson, is alive and well.[/B]


KKK.

- Do most Americans feel loyalty to the President? Because he's the president?

Most conservatives would feel loyalty in wartime to any president, republican or democrat. Liberals rarely feel loyalty to any president, in war or peace.
Bill Clinton.

For the OP:
- Is the USA a democracy?
No. It's a democratic republic.
What is the role of the ‘Electoral College’?
It maintains consitency within our government, as it is based solely on regional representation.

- How much longer do you think the effects of slave importation will last?

Of importation? Probably done. Of the institution and African Colonialism? So long as we're human.

- Do most Americans feel loyalty to the President? Because he's the president?

Only when they agree with what he's doing, and isn't obviously criminal.

- Do most American people think that people like Mexicans living in the USA are really and truly "American" or just American citizens and/or residents?

Most? Can't say. I would like to think that they consider them American, but look above to understand.

- Is there any real chance that Texas or California will break away from the USA in say, the next 20 years?

- If they did, would the North-East let them? (It didn’t, last time)


Nope.

- Do Americans feel any "togetherness" with any other part of the globe? At all?
Britain and the other UK colonies. Lesser extent with Western Europe. Outside of WASPland? You might as well be a raghead terrorist.


- Is there any underlying tension between ordinary American people and ‘Indians’ or ‘Eskimos’ - because of history?

Let's see...kill them, herd them onto worthless land, and then steal that from them. Then give a few of them casinos. Yeah, I'm sure they're not happy. White people? Giving a fuck? HAHAHAHA.

[Jesus Christ]

You're in the military - got in when they lowered the standards, eh? Christ - we're doomed.
Well, the standards can't be low enough that you could get in.

[alphamale]

You're in the military - got in when they lowered the standards, eh? Christ - we're doomed.
Well, the standards can't be low enough that you could get in.

Duh, ha ha .... dat funeee .... duh.............

[Jesus Christ]

You're in the military - got in when they lowered the standards, eh? Christ - we're doomed.
Well, the standards can't be low enough that you could get in.

Duh, ha ha .... dat funeee .... duh.............
No humor intended. Just plain fact.

[alphamale]

You're in the military - got in when they lowered the standards, eh? Christ - we're doomed.
Well, the standards can't be low enough that you could get in.

Duh, ha ha .... dat funeee .... duh.............
No humor intended. Just plain fact.

Just plain borrrring. :yawning:

[D. Scarlatti]

Q. How much longer do you think the effects of slave importation will last?

A. They've been gone for a very long time.

[Carlos]

First, see here:

http://www.freethought-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5193&page=1



This is an odd group of questions - would appreciate straight answers without sarcasm.


- Is the USA a democracy? What is the role of the ‘Electoral College’?

- How much longer do you think the effects of slave importation will last?

- Do most Americans feel loyalty to the President? Because he's the president?

- Do most American people think that people like Mexicans living in the USA are really and truly "American" or just American citizens and/or residents?

- Is there any real chance that Texas or California will break away from the USA in say, the next 20 years?

- If they did, would the North-East let them? (It didn’t, last time)

- Do Americans feel any "togetherness" with any other part of the globe? At all?

- Is there any underlying tension between ordinary American people and ‘Indians’ or ‘Eskimos’ - because of history?

- Finally, the big question:

Why do American people commonly use the word "fix" to mean “make”, as in “fix" a meal. Is the meal broken? (Or was it going somewhere?)

Questions for American People.

Why don't you start answering why you didn't say better :
"Questions for USA people"

Thanks,
Carlos

[Paul H.]

>> Why don't you think up your own original questionaire?

Ah. Like that was an act of laziness? Ahem. Oh no. On the contrary.

Because... (No, I'm glad no one, and ironically yourself, has realised the reason for that. Despite my (out of a sense of fairness) pointing to it in my OP).

[Paul H.]

“Too many times in American history, the electoral college has single-handedly defeated the purpose of democracy in this country.”

I’d always thought that the electoral college was specifically, and deliberately designed by the ‘founding fathers’ to prevent democracy from ever occurring in the USA? Didn’t the FF have a very dim view of ‘democracy’?

[Paul H.]

Why don't you start answering why you didn't say better :
"Questions for USA people"

I know what you mean, Carlos.

[alphamale]

“Too many times in American history, the electoral college has single-handedly defeated the purpose of democracy in this country.”

I’d always thought that the electoral college was specifically, and deliberately designed by the ‘founding fathers’ to prevent democracy from ever occurring in the USA? Didn’t the FF have a very dim view of ‘democracy’?

I spoke to that in post #16 q.v.

[erimir]

Q. How much longer do you think the effects of slave importation will last?

A. They've been gone for a very long time.
Even an asshat like alpha ought to admit that Jim Crow was such a thing.

Maybe in alpha's world, ~40 years is a "very long time" in historical terms.

[Jesus Christ]

Just plain borrrring. :yawning:
I'm sorry, I usually don't use the pretty colors when I'm posting. Now, be a big boy, and try real hard, and do something you haven't done in a very, very long time: think.

[D. Scarlatti]

Maybe in alpha's world ...

The effects of slavery are long gone but the liberal "race hustler industry" is alive and well.

Unquestionably his stupidest post yet (a remarkable achievement in itself).

[Paul H.]

"The effects of slavery are long gone..."

I find it hard to contain my... disagreement.

[Carlos]

Why don't you start answering why you didn't say better :
"Questions for USA people"

I know what you mean, Carlos.

Thank you, because my country is also part of America , and your questions are adressed only to USA people.

I have another doubt .
It is about this question:

Do most American people think that people like Mexicans living in the USA are really and truly "American" or just American citizens and/or residents?

I think it will be good to confirm some things about USA people if the question is phrased this way:

Do most American people think that people with "latinamerican look type" living in the USA are really and truly "American" or just American citizens and/or residents?

Most of the comon errors of USA "american" people is to confuse all latinamericans with Mexicans.

I am not sure if you get my point.

Thanks,
Carlos

[Paul H.]

Carlos,

"I am not sure if you get my point."

Oh yes I do.


But also; to Americans (oh, 'USA-people'), pretty much everyone is a 'Mexican'.

[Carlos]

Carlos,

"I am not sure if you get my point."

Oh yes I do.


But also; to Americans (oh, 'USA-people'), pretty much everyone is a 'Mexican'.

That's the point. Their lack of understanding how the world really is beyond their " American" frontiers.

Thanks,
Carlos

[godfry n. glad]

“Too many times in American history, the electoral college has single-handedly defeated the purpose of democracy in this country.”

I’d always thought that the electoral college was specifically, and deliberately designed by the ‘founding fathers’ to prevent democracy from ever occurring in the USA? Didn’t the FF have a very dim view of ‘democracy’?

I don't think that's a very fair typification at all.

The "deliberately designed by the ‘founding fathers’ to prevent democracy from ever occurring in the USA" is a lie, on the face of it. It's to prevent direct election of the chief executive of the nation. The president and the vice president only. Each of us has a direct vote in the selection of our Representative in the House of Representatives and both Senators in the Senate. The House and the Senate together make up Congress, by the way. (And Congress is the opposite of Progress, ironically.) The Electors for the Executive are selected as separate items on the ballot, but are usually designated by the party nominees. There is, by the way, a Constitutionally prescribed means of adjudicating an indeterminate presidential election...it's supposed to be turned over to the House of Representatives, where they vote as state blocks. (This was ignored in the Gore v. Bush election of 2000, when the Supreme Court essentially usurped the power of the House of Representatives to select the president....it was a coup. And the House sat on it's hands because of partisan politics.) Additionally, most American citizens have the ability to elect state representatives, state senators, governors, city officials. Democracy is a basic process, but in the US it is not direct democracy, it's representative democracy.

Then there's the issue of the FF. First, let me note that they were not of one mind. There were vast differences in opinion as to how the power should be distributed. I also think it would be fair to say that many of our FF had their home state in their forethoughts as they scrambled for power in the creation of a new nation. Jefferson wrote that he expected a revolution every 25 years. Hamilton thought we should create our own king. There were vast differences in opinion which were compromised into the fairly dynamic construct of constitutional representative democracy.

Also... I'll point out here that the Establishment Clause did not apply in the states. The Commonwealth of Massachusetts had a established church until 1819, when the Congregational Church was finally disestablished. That meant every citizen of various states, and colonies before them, had to provide support (through taxes) to the state sponsored church. I believe it was Virginia which was first to do away with this, under the guidance of Thomas Jefferson.

That said, a large number of our FF distrusted mobs and mob violence. They were, after all, mostly property owners. They wished to temper the headstrong and rash moods of the mob with a system which forced them to check and balance interests in the process. The three branches of government are supposed to check each other and each has a different term of office....Those possible for the most turnover are the best reflection of mob sentiment amongst the populace. But if the sentiment and tempered and survives long enough, it has effect higher up the tenure list, to the Executive, then the Senate (directly elected) and lastly the Supreme Court (appointed by the Executive and approved by the Senate). The Electoral College is to temper only the popular vote of the Executive (President and Vice President), but it supposed to reflect the will of the voters of each particular state (the Electors are selected under the provisions of state law).

Our FF also did not like partisan politics...but they fell into it within the first decade of the nation's existance.

Also, the first ten amendments, known as our much hallowed Bill of Rights, did not come into being with the Constitution. They were argued and added after the federal government came into being. Those arguments were very, very heated. I believe they started with twelve or thirteen proposals.

When it comes to direct affect of law upon the average US citizen, it is the state in which they reside which has the most effect. Federal law is limited to specific areas, usually related in some way to interstate commerce or foreign affairs.

[alphamale]

Maybe in alpha's world ...

The effects of slavery are long gone but the liberal "race hustler industry" is alive and well.

Unquestionably his stupidest post yet (a remarkable achievement in itself).

The "stupidest post yet" has become banal - try for something new scaloppini.

[alphamale]

Carlos,

"I am not sure if you get my point."

Oh yes I do.


But also; to Americans (oh, 'USA-people'), pretty much everyone is a 'Mexican'.

That's the point. Their lack of understanding how the world really is beyond their " American" frontiers.

Thanks,
Carlos


This is an often repeated accusation and I've never heard any justification. America has been intensely involved in world affairs for 100 years, many of it citizens have close relatives overseas, and many of them have travelled overseas, some extensively, including myself.

[Carlos]

Carlos,

"I am not sure if you get my point."

Oh yes I do.


But also; to Americans (oh, 'USA-people'), pretty much everyone is a 'Mexican'.

That's the point. Their lack of understanding how the world really is beyond their " American" frontiers.

Thanks,
Carlos


This is an often repeated accusation and I've never heard any justification. America has been intensely involved in world affairs for 100 years, many of it citizens have close relatives overseas, and many of them have travelled overseas, some extensively, including myself.
Do you mean USA?
Thanks,
Carlos

[godfry n. glad]

Oh... by the way... Our Constitution was the product of a conspiracy. The founding fathers ignored their charge and went way beyond the scope of the task they were supposed to be resolving. It was done behind closed doors, too.

[godfry n. glad]

This is an often repeated accusation and I've never heard any justification. America has been intensely involved in world affairs for 100 years, many of it citizens have close relatives overseas, and many of them have travelled overseas, some extensively, including myself.

More'n a 100 years, bozo.

We did a fair bit of posturing early on (think Tripoli) and it was the Royal Navy that enforced the Monroe Doctrine, not US power. We've been periphrally involved in European affairs since 1800. The Brits burned the White House down. More'n a good third of the present nation was purchased from a European power in a bargain sale. Other portions were forceably taken from Mexico. Note that the native populations had no say in this at all.

I'd say my country has been a little over involved in other nations since the Spanish American War of 1898 and the acquisition of the Phillipines. Ever since then, we've been pushing our noses in for our own interests...China, Japan, Central America and the Caribbean multiple times. Since becoming the contender for world power in 1945, we've redoubled our efforts overseas, often with appalling alliances with some of the world's most brutal dictatorships. Our military power seems to follow our economic (corporate) interests.

[Jesus Christ]

In the last 100 years, the US government has been very active in world affairs. Or at least, ones that we are economically tied to.

The American people, on the other hand...not so much. Some are, but a great many aren't. Plus, we've picked up the "Ugly American" reputation because of, well, because a sizable portion of American tourists act that way. I'm not saying the majority, or even a significant plurarlity. Just enough to ingrain themselves upon the rest of the world.

[alphamale]

In the last 100 years, the US government has been very active in world affairs. Or at least, ones that we are economically tied to.

The American people, on the other hand...not so much. Some are, but a great many aren't. Plus, we've picked up the "Ugly American" reputation because of, well, because a sizable portion of American tourists act that way. I'm not saying the majority, or even a significant plurarlity. Just enough to ingrain themselves upon the rest of the world.

Foreigners have false ideas about us, based on limited contact or what they've seen in the movies. I was once discussing this with 2 british guys in paris. One said americans are loud. His friend offered the theory that that was because the spaces were so wide open in america, everyone had to yell at everyone else. Like, everyone gets up in the morning in colorado and yells at their friends in wyoming. I said "I'm not exactly breaking your eardrum, am I?" He agreed that I wasn't, but was unable to reconcile the observation with his loud theory.

[Jesus Christ]

Foreigners have false ideas about us, based on limited contact or what they've seen in the movies. I was once discussing this with 2 british guys in paris. One said americans are loud. His friend offered the theory that that was because the spaces were so wide open in america, everyone had to yell at everyone else.
It is at this point that it is obvious you are making shit up. Honestly. I can think of one person dumb enough to actually proffer that as a theory, and, if your story is true, cannot possibly be one of the British men.

Having spent time in Europe, near tourist draws, I can tell you what I heard whenever I heard English being spoken: About one out of every ten was an "Ugly American". The fact that your entire post neglected to address what I said goes to further my previous statement about the veracity of your anecdote.

[alphamale]

Foreigners have false ideas about us, based on limited contact or what they've seen in the movies. I was once discussing this with 2 british guys in paris. One said americans are loud. His friend offered the theory that that was because the spaces were so wide open in america, everyone had to yell at everyone else.
It is at this point that it is obvious you are making shit up. Honestly. I can think of one person dumb enough to actually proffer that as a theory, and, if your story is true, cannot possibly be one of the British men.

Having spent time in Europe, near tourist draws, I can tell you what I heard whenever I heard English being spoken: About one out of every ten was an "Ugly American". The fact that your entire post neglected to address what I said goes to further my previous statement about the veracity of your anecdote.

HUH? WHAZZAT?? SPEAK UP, YUH DAMN FURRINER!! CAN'T HEAR ANY OF YUH!! HEY LOOKEE THERE LUCILLE - THE EIFFEL TOWER!! AIN'T THAT TH' PURTIEST DAMN THANG YA EVER SAW???

[erimir]

So I assume you have no response to the fact that Jim Crow only ended about 40 years ago, so it can hardly be said that the effects of slavery have been gone for a "very long time".

[Jesus Christ]

Ignorance and idiocy all rolled into one.

Did I, at any point, ever say that Americans are percieved as loud? Hmmm? Do you know what an "Ugly American" is? I take it not. If I were as mentally deficient as you, I'd not call attention to it.

[Paul H.]

"This is an often repeated accusation and I've never heard any justification. America has been intensely involved in world affairs for 100 years."

Do you realise how open this is to.. er,.

"Intensely involved"... yes *that's* the phrase I was looking for!

We're not invading and occupying your country, we're just intensely involved.

Freedom. And Intense Democracy.

[Godless Dave]

I'd just like to point out that Americans are not supposed to feel loyalty to the president; to do so violates the principles of our country and the constitutional definition of the office of president. He's a president, not a king. We are supposed to be loyal to the country as a whole, not any one person.

[alphamale]

"This is an often repeated accusation and I've never heard any justification. America has been intensely involved in world affairs for 100 years."

Do you realise how open this is to.. er,.

"Intensely involved"... yes *that's* the phrase I was looking for!

We're not invading and occupying your country, we're just intensely involved.

Freedom. And Intense Democracy.

Yaaaaaaaaaa .... and euros were intensely involved in exploiting the peoples in vast colonial empires in africa, asia, and south america for hundreds of years, yet somehow their intense involvement led to some kind of sublime wisdom, unachievable by the country that sent men to the moon and who win most of the nobel prizes. Sure.

[Sauron]

Yaaaaaaaaaa .... and euros were intensely involved in exploiting the peoples in vast colonial empires in africa, asia, and south america for hundreds of years, yet somehow their intense involvement led to some kind of sublime wisdom, unachievable by the country that sent men to the moon and who win most of the nobel prizes. Sure.

Most of Europe is no longer in the colony business.
The US still is.
So apparently the wisdom did not, in fact, trickle down to the USA.
Technical advances do not equate to wisdom.

There; so neat and easy!

[alphamale]

Yaaaaaaaaaa .... and euros were intensely involved in exploiting the peoples in vast colonial empires in africa, asia, and south america for hundreds of years, yet somehow their intense involvement led to some kind of sublime wisdom, unachievable by the country that sent men to the moon and who win most of the nobel prizes. Sure.

Most of Europe is no longer in the colony business.
The US still is.
So apparently the wisdom did not, in fact, trickle down to the USA.
Technical advances do not equate to wisdom.

There; so neat and easy!

Lessseee - then where did euros get their profound understanding of the world - eating pate and drinking champagne while attending U.N. conferences on hunger? Schmoozing with dictators like Saddam while selling him every armament known to man? Laying on the beach in Castro's worker's paradise?

The US still is.

Nonsense just drips out of your mouth like drool out of a baby.

[Paul H.]

If you'd like a considered anwser to that, just let me know. (I presume that was rhetorical BS).

[Paul H.]

I’d always thought that the electoral college was specifically, and deliberately designed by the ‘founding fathers’ to prevent democracy from ever occurring in the USA? Didn’t the FF have a very dim view of ‘democracy’?

[godfry n. glad]

I’d always thought that the electoral college was specifically, and deliberately designed by the ‘founding fathers’ to prevent democracy from ever occurring in the USA? Didn’t the FF have a very dim view of ‘democracy’?

Direct democracy, yes.

They had a distinct aversion to mobs. Irony, that. It was a very bougeois revolution. The landowners and capitalists had a major role in its success. These people valued order. The Constitution itself is a counter-revolutionary document to address legal and financial disorder. There existed a fair knowledge about how mobs could control a democratic process. Thus the variations of terms on various public offices. The most directly elected representatives, those in the House of Representatives, have the shortest tenure before reelection is required at two years. Then, the Executive, at four years. Then the Senate, the other half of the legislative congress, which, back then, was elected by the state legislatures, for six year terms. Lastly, of course, is the Supreme Court, with life appointments made by the president and approved by the Senate. The House has no say in appointments, but controls the pursestrings of the federal government. The powers are spread between the triumverate of powers so that legislation takes a long time and can be challenged, or ignored, even. Many of the FF, as I understand, held that one of the purposes of government was to hobble the mob.

They had a healthy distrust of a government that acted quickly, too. The purpose of the governmental processes is to distill the public weal through the election process. An election that is carried out democratically. (Or, is supposed to be. We are not absent finaggling the votes in our elections.) We vote for our representatives to cast their ballots as presidential electors directly now (they used to be elected by the state legislatures, another filtration device).

It is the presence of political parties that the FF did not plan for. They abhorred those as well. Except Jefferson, of course.

[TomJoe]

If you'd like a considered anwser to that, just let me know. (I presume that was rhetorical BS).

Alphamale is no longer with us. However, I do agree with some of his assessments of you. You do not seem to have a firm grasp of reality in a few instances. Like your "The world would never have allowed the US to invade Japan at the end of WWII." theory. Nevermind that we currently have a military presence in Japan.

[aequitas]

- Is the USA a democracy? What is the role of the ‘Electoral College’?

That depends on your definition of democracy. Strictly speaking, probably not. Democracy is usually characterized by an informed public that is actively involved in the political process. In the US, less than half of the American public even bothers to vote once every four years in our presidential elections. Surveys repeatedly show that the American electorate is not well informed on the issues. It would probably be more accurate to say that the US has the trappings of democracy, but in many ways falls short of being a true democracy in practice.



- Do most Americans feel loyalty to the President? Because he's the president?

After a crisis event (such as the September 11th terrorist attacks), most Americans do tend to "rally around the flag" and support the president. But that widespread feeling of loyalty to the office of the president tends to be shorted lived. I certainly don't feel any loyalty to this president. It really bothers me when conservatives make the argument that if you don't support the president, then you are not a good American. You can love your country and still be opposed to the policies of its current leader. In fact, I think it is because Democrats do love this country that they are so saddened by what the Bush Administration has done over the past five years.


- Do most American people think that people like Mexicans living in the USA are really and truly "American" or just American citizens and/or residents?

Depends on who you ask. There will always be some people who think they are better because their relatives came over on the Mayflower (or something close to that). In my view, if you hold U.S. citizenship then you are an "American" (with apologies to our neighbors in Latin America who also often view themselves as Americans and dislike how the U.S. tends to appropriate the term).

- Is there any real chance that Texas or California will break away from the USA in say, the next 20 years?

No.

- If they did, would the North-East let them? (It didn’t, last time)

And no--that issue got settled with the civil war.

- Do Americans feel any "togetherness" with any other part of the globe? At all?

Again, I think that depends on who you ask. As a whole, the U.S. has always had a close relationship with Western Europe and more broadly with the other major industrial countries of the world. I think that probably still holds today, which is why Americans are more likely to respond to say a terrorist attack in England than there are to continued violence in places like Somolia or the Sudan.

- Is there any underlying tension between ordinary American people and ‘Indians’ or ‘Eskimos’ - because of history?

Absolutely. Let's face it, the Native Americans in this country got screwed. Many of them are still having to deal with the legacy of their having been pushed off their lands and channeled into reservations. I don't think the so-called average American really gives much thought to the issues that affect Native Americans, but for the Native American groups those issues are certainly very real.

- Finally, the big question:

Why do American people commonly use the word "fix" to mean “make”, as in “fix" a meal. Is the meal broken? (Or was it going somewhere?)

I can't say for certain, but I think this use of the word is most commonly applied in the southern United States. However, one of the dictionary definitions of the word "fix" is: "Prepare for eating by applying heat." I would say that applies to making dinner.

[Paul H.]

>> …yet somehow their intense involvement led to some kind of sublime
>> wisdom...

I’m sure you already know this, but most Europeans consider America to be a sociological basket case.

You’re kinda like the druken, drug addicted, gun crazy homeless psycho that one can only hope a little kindess can help. With an amount of luck.


>>…unachievable by the country that sent men to the moon and who
>> win most of the nobel prizes. Sure.

Sociological basket case. And isn' it true that most of "America's" Prize winners were not born anywhere near the USA?

In Fact Germany has the record of native born Nobel Prize winners. Not Germany, Nebraska. Germany, Europe. Germans.

Most were and raised, in, er Europe?


So, the French paid for your rebellion against your government. in 1776

Now, you hate the French. You betrayed your own government. But they helped you do it. With cash, with a navy, with French men's lives.

All your brains come from Europe

Now, you affect to hate Europeans. Especailly the French.


No wonder most of the world thinks you're dumb?

Statue of Liberty? A gift from the French. Who you now ridicule for not joining you in killing Iraqis. After they died for you in 1776. They saved you in the American Revolution. That’s’ real ingratitude.

[aequitas]

I wouldn't lump all Americans in the same basket. It doesn't surprise me at all that many Europeans think we are insane for putting Bush in office. I think the same thing. But there is a large and growing number of people in the U.S. who strongly disagree with this president. Bush and his people relied on misrepresentations and outright lies to get elected. But you can only hide behind a lie for so long, and the reality of his failed leadership is very quickly become obvious to the people here, which is why Bush's approval ratings are sitting around 40%.

[viscousmemories]

Paul H: If your American-bashing is directed at alphamale then as TomJoe alluded to above, he has been banned for weeks. He couldn't respond to your comments even if he read them, which by this time is probably unlikely. If you're just directing it at Americans in general then knock yourself out.

[TomJoe]

I'm still wanting to know what Paul H meant by his nonsense that the world would never have allowed the US to invade Japan towards the end of WWII.

I doubt I'll ever find out the reason for what appears to be a pretty ignorant and assinine comment.

[Shake]

I've suggested that the United States needs to be about five or six smaller nations.

I'd really love it if the Pacific Northwest would secede and join lower British Columbia and southwestern Alberta to form a new nation. I'd be willing to give up eastern Montana and most of Alberta to the flatlanders. Basically, I think those in the Columbia River Basin and adjacent smaller watersheds have a whole lot more in common than any of them do with the likes of Florida, Ontario, New York or Texas.

There have been semi-serious attempts of northern California and southwestern Oregon to secede from their respective states and form a new U.S. state, tenatively named "Jefferson". I'm not sure that California could successfully secede without splitting into two nations.
godfry, I'd like to recommend — although I haven't read it, my father has — this book (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0380578859/internetinfidels). According to one of the Amazon reviews, it's not quite as dated as one might think based on when it was written.
5 and 6 together. There is no chance of any US state to break away. 11 of them tried it once, and were duly reconquered. The theory is that since the government of the united states is democratic, the only reason a state would break away is to avoid the majority opinion, and set up a situation where the majority becomes the minority and vice versa. Thus, the government has the right to suppress separitist movements.
Yes, secession was attempted, but it was illegal per Article I, section 10 of the US Constitution (http://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution/constitution.articlei.html#section10). In one way, it was fortunate for the Confederacy that they never achieved autonomy. That is, using the arguments they did to seceed from the Union could have been used later on if some say, East-West tensions had developed in the new nation. And to say that they might have then codified secession as illegal would go against the argument that state rights trumped those of the nation.

[Carnivale Ed]

So, the French paid for your rebellion against your government. in 1776

Now, you hate the French. You betrayed your own government. But they helped you do it. With cash, with a navy, with French men's lives.
And the French lived under the umbrella of US protection throughout the entire Cold War, a far more recent event. What the fuck is your point?

[TomJoe]

So, the French paid for your rebellion against your government. in 1776

Now, you hate the French. You betrayed your own government. But they helped you do it. With cash, with a navy, with French men's lives.
And the French lived under the umbrella of US protection throughout the entire Cold War, a far more recent event. What the fuck is your point?

Not only that, how many Americans sacrificed their lives on the beaches of Normandy, and throughout France to liberate them from Nazi occupation?

The only point Paul H has is the one on top of his head.

[Sarpedon]

C'mon people, enough with the anti france attitudes! France's help to us in the Revolution was in their own best interest. The US's help to France in the World Wars was in our own best interests. And now, in spite of some mutual dislike, it is still in both of our best interests to continue to work together, in spite of the fact that we will disagree on some issues. All this talk about us "owing" each other is ridiculous.

[Crumb]

Not to mention that the France that helped us during the revolution was a different country. It is Louis XVI we have to thank, not the France of today. He drove his country further into debt and poverty helping win our revolution thus pushing France into their revolution and leading to his own downfall and death.

But countries are not monolithic entities. I have nothing against France as a country, nor would I ever hold a grudge against a group because of their leaders actions, past or present.

(Why am I posting in this thread? Shouldn't it be dead now?)

[godfry n. glad]

I've suggested that the United States needs to be about five or six smaller nations.

I'd really love it if the Pacific Northwest would secede and join lower British Columbia and southwestern Alberta to form a new nation. I'd be willing to give up eastern Montana and most of Alberta to the flatlanders. Basically, I think those in the Columbia River Basin and adjacent smaller watersheds have a whole lot more in common than any of them do with the likes of Florida, Ontario, New York or Texas.

There have been semi-serious attempts of northern California and southwestern Oregon to secede from their respective states and form a new U.S. state, tenatively named "Jefferson". I'm not sure that California could successfully secede without splitting into two nations.
godfry, I'd like to recommend — although I haven't read it, my father has — this book (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0380578859/internetinfidels). According to one of the Amazon reviews, it's not quite as dated as one might think based on when it was written.

Hey, Shake, I'll try it out.

I'm familiar with this one (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0553348477/qid=1137787615/sr=2-1/ref=pd_bbs_b_2_1/104-5067644-5827901?s=books&v=glance&n=283155), which is dated and not particularly to my liking. But the concept was interesting.

I'm more attuned to following river basins, like the Columbia and the Mississippi/Missouri/Ohio. Water resources clearly defined. California would be split between the Colorado and Columbia basins, or go it's own on the central valley with all the coastals. It'd make Missoula a border city, just inside the Pacific Northwest. We'd get the Klamath/Humboldt basins, too.

[Crumb]

Unite Cascadia! (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cascadia)

[godfry n. glad]

Unite Cascadia! (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cascadia)

Hmmm... Evergreen Revolution? No wiki page, that's ominous. That's the first I've ever heard of it. I've been a small voice crying in the wilderness on this for decades. Everybody I mention it to smiles politely and changes the conversation. I ain't heard nobody say anything close to positive about it.

The Cascadia conurbation, along with the Columbia/Fraser/Klamath basins. Right up to the Continental Divide! How far north?

All we need now is a pretext for a constitutional convention.

[Crumb]

The original Oregon Territory. The only picture of the boundaries I have seen is the one on that wiki page.

[Carnivale Ed]

C'mon people, enough with the anti france attitudes! France's help to us in the Revolution was in their own best interest. The US's help to France in the World Wars was in our own best interests. And now, in spite of some mutual dislike, it is still in both of our best interests to continue to work together, in spite of the fact that we will disagree on some issues. All this talk about us "owing" each other is ridiculous.
I'm not anti-french at all, I just disagreed with the idea that a nation (in this case, the US) cannot pass judgment on the behaviour of another just because, at some point in the distant past, the latter nation aided the former.

I used the Cold War as my example because it's far more recent. If Paul H.'s logic is consistent, then he should be berating France for not falling quickly in to line with US desires regarding the war in Iraq (not that I, personally, agree with that idea, though I have my doubts that the French position was entirely principled).

[Shake]

Unite Cascadia! (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cascadia)
Apparently, I'm in the Foundry.

[Paul H.]

Yaaaaaaaaaa .... and euros were intensely involved in exploiting the peoples in vast colonial empires in africa, asia, and south america for hundreds of years, yet somehow their intense involvement led to some kind of sublime wisdom...

I don't think that, "Oh, they did it too!" means much. Unless you mean that the USA is a coupla hundred years behind Europe in cultural development - that is, you're doing now, what they did, three hundred years ago?

Your point that "America has been intensely involved in world affairs" remains a sad, sad fact.

"Intensely" is the just the right word.

...unachievable by the country that sent men to the moon and who win most of the nobel prizes. Sure.

Technical achievement as a measure of… what?

First man in Space –Russian. First thing in Orbit - Russian. First thing on the Moon – Russian. Am I saying that means much? Nope. I fact in the 20th Century, I'd say that Nazi Germany led in technical development. That means... what?

Nobel prizes? Ever added up how many "American" Nobel Prize winners were not born or educated in America? Is it most of them?

[Paul H.]

And the French lived under the umbrella of US protection throughout the entire Cold War, a far more recent event. What the fuck is your point?

(What a typically colourless American turn-of-(anti)phrase you have).

The point was obvious, you chose to ignore it. But here is it again: without the courage and blood of France (the "surrender monkeys") - there would be no America.

So, I was sayin', show some respect to your saviours.



Not only that, how many Americans sacrificed their lives on the beaches of Normandy, and throughout France to liberate them from Nazi occupation?

No prizes for second. They saved you, first.

The only point Paul H has is the one on top of his head.

Well, that sure made a point.

[ms_ann_thrope]

Wow, that comeback took you over 5 months to write? :giggle: