Good parenting programs or advice?

[Beth]

In the years as a mom, I have been through several parenting programs and reads ton of book on adolescent development and what-not. But I think I am failing miserably at this mom-thing and it is my one, main job. I've been through the STEP Program many times, but when I applied the advice on my kids it never worked. In fact, thing got worse. I think this is due to my children being hyper and due to personality traits.

I am constistant in my discipline even if it means an all out war with the kids, but I think I punish fairly, I see the judgements I level at my children as rather mild compared to when I was a kid, but my kids do not fear me as I feared my mom, so her style will not work with them, nor would I want to level punishments the same way.

Anyway, I am just wondering if there are any good books on parenting, that may have helped you, or any affordable non-STEP (since this program has not worked for me) parenting programs out there that seem to be pretty good?

I have read Dobson's The Strong Willed Child and similar works like that, but they did not help. And I cannot spank the kids. I rarely did it in the past and it is too late and would be rather strange and cruel to start now, I think it would also only help to foster more resentment and anger against me.

Thanks.

[LadyShea]

Dobson is evil incarnate, I definitely suggest NOT reading anything of his.

I am not a parent yet, but the best parents I know don't follow books or programs, they read their kids....they base their child rearing on their kids' individual personalities and traits. My brother and I were so different, my folks had completely different expectations and disciplines and rewards for each of us. The thing I have always carried with me, to this day, is that respect my parents. They were always fair, always took my opinion into account, and always allowed me to explain or have my say when any problems came up. I also know that, despite her miniscule size, my mom could and still can put my head through a wall if necessary, both figuratively and literally. She's a force to be reckoned with on many levels....luckily her powers were always used defending me...lol

I do not feel comfortable posting there much because of my childless status, but I love the community of strong, smart, funny women at Sybermoms (http://www.sybermoms.com) . Maybe you can take a look there :)

Best of luck, Beth, whatever you decide. Raising decent human beings is a tough job, but so worthwhile to all of society.

[Beth]

Thanks. I only mentioned Dobson because it was recommended to me when I was religious. They do not work for me and he advocates consistant spanking that I was never able to do.

I was abused in my childhood. It always made it more difficult for me to know what is normal or if I was just and fair or too harsh or too lax and I really cannot know what to do other than follow the examples I was taught. I never wanted to do that, so when I realized I was having trouble with my hyperactive kids, I sought help. I don't think that makes me a poor parent. It just means I admitted I was doing something amiss and I was trying to fix it.

In comparison with a lot of kids around, my kids are very good, and are always polite to others, People adore them. They are only little terrors to me;-). the counselor said it is because they feel safe with me.
I understand each personality is different and rear accordingly, but it is hard doing solo. These groups were like a support and so were the books. They were better than asking advice and being told I need to get a belt and beat the shit out of them. Or constantly being told how flawed I am in the mothering department.

Thanks for the link. :) I'll check it out.

[LadyShea]

I didn't mean to imply you ar a poor parent at all; I just think you need to trust yourself a little more to know your kids better than some author who has never met them. Any program or book cannot take individuality into account, so reading a variety and trying things from various ones might be a better bet than focusing on any one.

For example, I have been reading about attachment parenting in case I get pregnant...there are many things AP advocates that feel, to me, like they would be beneficial....but some items I am simply not comfortable with and would never do (such as I have a huge "ick factor" with regards to extended breast feeding, and a "family bed" is simply dangerous in my family as I have been awoken by an elbow smash to the nose on many occasions...Frankie is a restless but deep sleeper). So read all you can, take what is good for you and again, my best wishes :)

[Beth]

I understand. I'm sorry I misunderstood.

My kids have the family bed, but I often end up on the floor or on the couch when they both hop in. I have given my hubby a black eye once in my sleep, he says I was dreaming, I jut think he was trying to wake me up to get frisky. My daughter is the one who really bothers us, I end up with a foot in my back and one tangled in my hair so that when I wake and rise, my hair nearly gets ripped out. I have recently been demanding them to stay out of my bed, except when they are ill.

I nursed my son till I found out I was preggers, but I wa already 3 months when I found out I was. He was nearly 2 when I weaned him. My daughter was a year and a half. I could not wait to end it, although it was sad to lose that closeness. I know a woman who nursed till five, that would have made me feel uncomfortable. Two was good for me and one and a half was good for me with my daughter.

I do try to modify what I learn, it is just that my son is entering into a teen phase and my daughter, although still nine, is trying to mimick him because he is cool. So I am dealing with a pre-teen and an a child's interpretation of a teen (a drama queen). ;) I am entering territory that reminds me most of the terrible two's and me threes but cannot be handled the same.

[lisarea]

I don't know how valuable any advice I can give you is. I don't say this to brag, because I almost feel guilty about it sometimes, but damn, my kid was easy. He slept through the night, he's smart and considerate, and really never gave me much trouble. Not in the twos and not even in the teens (he's 18 now). So maybe my advice is lame. I sometimes think I just got incredibly lucky, and I could have been an abusive crack whore and still ended up with a great kid. (He's lazy and undisciplined at times, so he's certainly not perfect, but he's decent, considerate, kind, and trustworthy when he's not being a wise guy.)

But FWIW: What I always did was try to discipline him in the way that made sense, and was designed to address the root of the problem, rather than to just to hurt him or punish him. He went through a period once when he was acting flitty and couldn't concentrate, and I hit the breaking point the day he borrowed my car keys for something and lost them. (I was actually in the process of looking for a screwdriver or something to hotwire my car when I found them, and I'd already missed a meeting at work.) When we got home that evening, I explained to him that I thought his behavior was really deteriorating, and we needed to do something about it. I barred him from TV and cut out soda and other sugary stuff for a while, and we spent our time without those distractions. It worked. He didn't like it at first, but he knew I wasn't just doing it to punish him, but to solve a problem. When he was among a group of neighborhood kids who picked someone's tomatoes from their backyard, he was the one who had to collect the undamaged ones, put them in a box, go to their door, and apologize. Hell, when someone vandalized a house down the street, he and I spent a Saturday afternoon with scrub brushes and buckets, helping them clean up, because I wanted him to realize what a really horrible thing it is to destroy someone else's property. I wanted him to understand the consequences of actions, and to really be able to think about how things affect people. And I don't know if that worked, or if he was just born that way, but he really is a sweet, considerate young man. (I really need to include the wise guy disclaimer every time.)

I never set out just to punish him, but to teach him little lessons, and give him new coping skills. When he'd start to get out of hand, I wanted to help him get himself under control. When he was inconsiderate or rude, I wanted to teach him how to behave better and to prepare him to deal with the rest of the world, which wouldn't cut him quite as much slack as I will. For his own good. I never bothered trying psychological tricks or anything. They'd never work, because he's smarter than me. So I'd just tell him that I wanted him to learn how to get along with people, how to deal with difficult circumstances, and how to be a good friend and a good person. I'd explain to him exactly why I was disciplining him, and what my logic was behind it. We'd even discuss what discipline would be appropriate sometimes, and he'd come up with good ideas, even, because I think he really did see them as therapeutic, rather than punitive.

He was always better for other people than he was for me, too, but that is very common, and it's probably a good sign. In healthy families, I think kids tend to test the limits with their parents, and put on their company manners around other people. I figure that means you're a good enough mom that they know how to behave, but they feel safe and comfortable enough with you that they don't always do it.

If they hurt you or cause you trouble, have you tried telling them that? I don't consider it inappropriate to tell your kid that, when they say something cruel to you, it makes you feel bad, or that when they cause you extra work, you get frustrated and tired. You don't have to pretend you're impenetrable.

[Ex-zombie]

Beth,

I agree with LadyShea that you should trust yourself more. When you say that your children are well behaved around other people that says to me that you are doing a splendid parenting job. Lisarea is correct that you shouldn't simply punish a child. Be aware of the fact that you are attempting to teach your child a valuable lesson.

With my own children I have found that you have to suit the punishment to what works for that child. I have two daughters. My oldest daughter couldn't have cared less if you grounded her. What worked for her was taking away privileges that she had-such as tv, computer, and phone. My youngest daughter however considers it the end of the world to be grounded.
I think it is also important to be patient with children.

Also sometimes it is impossible to tell whether you are doing a good job or not. My oldest daughter upon turning fourteen turned into every parent's nightmare. She skipped school, did drugs, slept around, and generally made my life hell. Two and a half years later the behavior completely disappeared.
Today she is a beautiful, smart, and considerate adult. She graduated college this last spring. I couldn't be prouder of her. What happened? I don't know. When I ask her about her wild behavior she states that she just wanted to have fun.

My youngest daughter is completely different. She slept through the night two weeks after being born, never threw a tantrum, and rarely ever gets into trouble. She has been grounded a grand total of three times and she is fifteen years old.

Sorry to ramble. Beth, the fact that you have reached out for ideas shows to me that you really care about your children. I agree that your children are rambunctious with you because they trust you and feel safe. Try to relax and enjoy the ride.

[HelenM]

Hi Beth,

I think the 'reality discipline'/'consequesnces' approach makes the most sense when children are the age ours are (and older but still at home). What you do is try to put consequences in place so that the child suffers adversely if he/she misbehaves, in a way that they care about. At these ages, loss of privileges or allowance makes the most sense to me as a consequence. You can even discuss with your children in calm moments what consequences are 'fair' to impose if they don't do as they are supposed to.

Sometimes things have natural consequences already - such as not doing homework. If your kids care about getting in trouble at school that would work. If not then maybe you need to take away TV/computer privileges or whatever, if they aren't getting it done. That's a consequence which makes complete sense, because you're temporarily taking away the thing that most likely gets in the way of them doing homework, because they do it instead.

It helps if your husband is 'on your team' regarding what behavior is expected and the consequences if they don't do what they're supposed to.

And it helps to not be too isolated from other mothers who can reassure you that all mothers feel like failures sometimes :p I don't think it's possible to be a perfect parent and I think your counselor is absolutely right that children do seem worst at home, where it's 'safe'. But wow - what a tribute to you and your husband, that they do feel safe at home! That's a wonderful thing, when you think about how many kids are too abused to feel safe at home.

Another thing I think that helps is having fun family things to do, where you can all lighten up and get beyond any fights you just had. My husband is so much better than me about lightening up and getting the kids to laugh. I really miss that when he has to travel and I'm sure they do too.

Most books I've read about parenting are Christian ones. I think books can help but I also think that just talking with other parents is a great way to pick up helpful tips about what has and hasn't worked. Plus, as I said, it can be very reassuring to hear that other parents find parenting challenging too!

Helen

[seebs]

There was a book called "PET - Parent Effectiveness Training" - which I read as a kid, from which I learned a certain amount about how to deal with people. I am not sure whether it is currently favored or disfavored, but I liked it. No kids yet, so very little practical experience.

On the subject of Dobson:

"That is horrible, Doctor James Dobson! Not only has gay marriage forced you to become a homosexual, it has made you a bottom!" - fafblog

[Dingfod]

Also sometimes it is impossible to tell whether you are doing a good job or not. My oldest daughter upon turning fourteen turned into every parent's nightmare. She skipped school, did drugs, slept around, and generally made my life hell. I so identify with that. Only it was a lot more than 2-1/2 years before coming around, in fact, almost a decade now and still not on track. She's trying to put her life together now after coming out of a four year abusive relationship, living with her Texas grandparents with her one year old son. Prior to age 14, all kinds of people would comment on what a great kid she was, mature, responsible, kind, etc. It seemed like we had done a good job. I still think that all the stuff we did right is still there somewhere deep inside her.

I used to be one of those people that would blame the parents for the bad behavior of their teenage and young adult children, bad upbringing, I would say. No more, I now know it's like Forrest Gump's box of chocolates, you never know what you're going to get. Our second daughter, 17 tomorrow, is completely different. Completely.

[Bella]

I am curious as to how you think you're failing as a parent.

[Beth]

I'm sorry. I did not have much time to type yesterday, I was able to read and keep the puter logged alot of the day...but that's about it. I'll post when I have more time, still cleaning up a disaster. :) But thank you all for your replies and comments.