Classical music

[JoeP]

I don't know much about classical music, but I'm a big fan of Vivaldi's Four Seasons. It's one of few classical CD's I own. :)
:super: for Four Seasons. Also good as a pizza. (Stay on topic dammit, :whip: you've only just started the thread!)

Who is into classical music and what do you like? vm, do you not know much about it because of a lack of exposure or because you actively dislike the stuff you have been exposed to?

:music:

I grew up listening to classical music in the house along with BBC Radio 1 and Top of the Pops, so I got exposure. Plenty of my favourites are pieces I heard back then. Beethoven, esp the Third Symphony (da-da-da-dum) also titled "Eroica" (and there's no missing 't' in there) :trumpet: and the Ninth :flautist:. Bach, various but esp Toccata and Fugue. Love fugues & canons. Pachelbel's Canon (everyone knows this even if not its name). Requiems especially Faure's. And bursting into the 20th century, Erik Satie :piano: - Gymnopedies, etc (I can't remember which titles correspond to my favourite pieces by him as I have a CD with about 30 tracks on). Berlioz's Symphonie Fantastique. :drums:

joe :headset:

[Dingfod]

I like Rossini overtures, Bizet's Carmen, Ravel, and most Mozart and Beethoven. I prefer the full orchestra productions and not the "play way up high and really really fast just because they can" violin solo pieces.

[JoeP]

Good choices :singing:
I have some kind of bias against opera, but in fact I like many of them.

[livius drusus]

Italian opera is my game, with Puccini, Verdi, and Rossini as the starters. Favorite instrumental pieces include the overtures to La Traviata (for heartwrenchingness) and The Barber of Seville (for joie de vivre), and the Triumphal March from Aida for sheer, unmitigated ass-kickery. There is very little cooler in this world than seeing camels and horses and elephants parade across a stage in the Baths of Caracalla with the trumpets Verdi designed just for Aida filling the Roman summer night air. Spectacular doesn't even begin to describe it.

Favorite arias include Nessun Dorma (Puccini, Turandot), Un Di Felice (Verdi, Traviata), Che Gelida Manina (Puccini, La Boheme), Caro Nome (Verdi, Rigoletto), Tra Voi Belle, Brune E Bionde (Puccini, Manon Lescaut), Va Pensiero (Verdi, Nabucco), and just for good measure, Sposa son Disprezzata, a lovely Vivaldi piece from his rarely-produced opera Ottone In Villa.

Shed that bias, Joe. Sure, opera can be melodramatic and silly in many ways, but it can also bypass your rational mind and score a direct hit on the pleasure/empathy bits of your brain like nothing else.

[Farren]

I don't know much about classical music, but I'm a big fan of Vivaldi's Four Seasons. It's one of few classical CD's I own. :)
:super: for Four Seasons. Also good as a pizza. (Stay on topic dammit, :whip: you've only just started the thread!)

Who is into classical music and what do you like? vm, do you not know much about it because of a lack of exposure or because you actively dislike the stuff you have been exposed to?

:music:

I grew up listening to classical music in the house along with BBC Radio 1 and Top of the Pops, so I got exposure. Plenty of my favourites are pieces I heard back then. Beethoven, esp the Third Symphony (da-da-da-dum) also titled "Eroica" (and there's no missing 't' in there) :trumpet: and the Ninth :flautist:. Bach, various but esp Toccata and Fugue. Love fugues & canons. Pachelbel's Canon (everyone knows this even if not its name). Requiems especially Faure's. And bursting into the 20th century, Erik Satie :piano: - Gymnopedies, etc (I can't remember which titles correspond to my favourite pieces by him as I have a CD with about 30 tracks on). Berlioz's Symphonie Fantastique. :drums:

joe :headset:

I also grew up hearing a lot of classical. My dad is a Bach nut and a big Beethoven fan and neither composer has much of an impression on me to this day. Used to like Vivaldi but its just worn out for me. Ditto for Debussy, who my dad also loves. I mean, I think they're great. I've just heard them waaaaay too much. Orff's Carmena Burana (sp?) got tired after about the zillionth movie and third deodarant commercial too.

My favourites are the Bolero (by who?), Rodrigo's Concierto de Aranjuez (at least I think that's the tune - they used it in the movie "Brassed off"), Smetana's Moldau, Holst's Planet Suite after getting the "Cosmos" soundtrack and Elgar's Pomp and Circumstance.

[JoeP]

I also grew up hearing a lot of classical. My dad is a Bach nut and a big Beethoven fan and neither composer has much of an impression on me to this day. Used to like Vivaldi but its just worn out for me. Ditto for Debussy, who my dad also loves. I mean, I think they're great. I've just heard them waaaaay too much. Orff's Carmena Burana (sp?) got tired after about the zillionth movie and third deodarant commercial too.

My favourites are the Bolero (by who?), Rodrigo's Concierto de Aranjuez (at least I think that's the tune - they used it in the movie "Brassed off"), Smetana's Moldau, Holst's Planet Suite after getting the "Cosmos" soundtrack and Elgar's Pomp and Circumstance.
Funny, I can't think of anything I've really got tired. Carmina Burana is still stunning, although I don't enjoy all of it ... the last three tracks including the reprise of O Fortuna are the best. I forgot The Planets - I used to love that, I just don't have a recording of it atm. Concierto de Aranjuez is good. Don't know Smetana. Pomp and Circumstance I'll admit I haven't heard much.

[JoeP]

Italian opera is my gameSurprise, surprise! :dramaq: Drama duchess

Shed that bias, Joe.Yes ma'am.

[livius drusus]

My favourites are the Bolero (by who?)

Ravel. So am I the only one who gets an irresistible urge to holler "Jesus Christ, cum already!" somewhere around the 8th minute?

[Farren]

My favourites are the Bolero (by who?)

Ravel. So am I the only one who gets an irresistible urge to holler "Jesus Christ, cum already!" somewhere around the 8th minute?

Why, does everyone think of it as fuck music? I've been wanting to know that for years.

[Farren]

Funny, I can't think of anything I've really got tired. Carmina Burana is still stunning, although I don't enjoy all of it ... the last three tracks including the reprise of O Fortuna are the best. I forgot The Planets - I used to love that, I just don't have a recording of it atm. Concierto de Aranjuez is good. Don't know Smetana. Pomp and Circumstance I'll admit I haven't heard much.

I remember reading the English translation of the lyrics to Carmina years ago and all I have now is a vague impression of what they were, but I remember thinking "Holy crap! I'm glad it's in German (and I don't speak it)!". They were so awsomely lame, like "I love you so, I love you so, blah blah blah..."

[Farren]

Oh and what the crap is supposed to be so wonderful about Handel's Messiah? I've been for, like, three performances, one conducted by Yehudi Menuhin and it was a struggle to even stay awake, every single time. Am I, like, uncivilised or something or is it really as long, boring and overrated as it seems?

[livius drusus]

My favourites are the Bolero (by who?)

Ravel. So am I the only one who gets an irresistible urge to holler "Jesus Christ, cum already!" somewhere around the 8th minute?

Why, does everyone think of it as fuck music? I've been wanting to know that for years.

You and Ravel both, I think. It was originally written as a ballet and the first staging featured Ida Rubenstein doing the flamenco on a bar table watched by lecherous Spaniards, so that's probably where the fuck motif began. Ravel thought it more of an industrial theme, underpinned by the rhythym of machinery.

Generally speaking though, I think it's just the regularity of the melody, the intense crescendo and final paroxym which sound like sex to people.

[viscousmemories]

I don't know much about classical music, but I'm a big fan of Vivaldi's Four Seasons. It's one of few classical CD's I own. :)
:super: for Four Seasons. Also good as a pizza. (Stay on topic dammit, :whip: you've only just started the thread!)

Who is into classical music and what do you like? vm, do you not know much about it because of a lack of exposure or because you actively dislike the stuff you have been exposed to?
No I don't actively dislike anything I've heard, I just can't really differentiate because I'm not really familiar with it. The only classical music ever played in my house as I was growing up was on Bugs Bunny, and funnily I thought it was written and composed to go with the cartoons - not the other way around. Moreover there was a general antipathy toward all things 'high-brow' in my house, probably born of the fact that we were very poor and my parents had no "higher education" to speak of.

I'm familiar with Vivaldi only 'cause I once snatched the Four Seasons out of a bargain bin in an effort to get some exposure to classical music, and in the 10 years since it has remained, by coincidence, the only one I've owned.

[Farren]

You and Ravel both, I think. It was originally written as a ballet and the first staging featured Ida Rubenstein doing the flamenco on a bar table watched by lecherous Spaniards, so that's probably where the fuck motif began. Ravel thought it more of an industrial theme, underpinned by the rhythym of machinery.

Generally speaking though, I think it's just the regularity of the melody, the intense crescendo and final paroxym which sound like sex to people.

:D I see you weren't anal enough there. Congratulations, you've given birth to a new baby word!

Seriously though, that makes a whole lot of sense. I guess I didn't see it because I haven't had sex for half a decade and the Bolero doesn't match the furious pace of my masturbation.

[JoeP]

My favourites are the Bolero (by who?)

Ravel. So am I the only one who gets an irresistible urge to holler "Jesus Christ, cum already!" somewhere around the 8th minute?

Why, does everyone think of it as fuck music? I've been wanting to know that for years.
It was the music Dudley Moore and Bo Derek fucked to in the film 10 (http://uk.imdb.com/title/tt0078721/).

[livius drusus]

:D I see you weren't anal enough there. Congratulations, you've given birth to a new baby word!

Why must you hurt me like that? :sobbing:

Seriously though, that makes a whole lot of sense. I guess I didn't see it because I haven't had sex for half a decade and the Bolero doesn't match the furious pace of my masturbation.

Clearly the passion's gone out of your relationship. Why not fire up some nice, filthy porn, pop Bolero into the CD player and make an effort to try something new.

[livius drusus]

It was the music Dudley Moore and Bo Derek fucked to in the film 10 (http://uk.imdb.com/title/tt0078721/).

Oh yeah! The Italian title of that movie was actually Bolero Ecstasy.

[JoeP]

I remember reading the English translation of the lyrics to Carmina years ago and all I have now is a vague impression of what they were, but I remember thinking "Holy crap! I'm glad it's in German (and I don't speak it)!". They were so awsomely lame, like "I love you so, I love you so, blah blah blah..."
The lyrics are totally banal. But Orff doesn't pretend they're anything else.

[JoeP]

You and Ravel both, I think. It was originally written as a ballet and the first staging featured Ida Rubenstein doing the flamenco on a bar table watched by lecherous Spaniards, so that's probably where the fuck motif began. Ravel thought it more of an industrial theme, underpinned by the rhythym of machinery.

Generally speaking though, I think it's just the regularity of the melody, the intense crescendo and final paroxym which sound like sex to people.

:D I see you weren't anal enough there. Congratulations, you've given birth to a new baby word!

Selective spell-checking there, Farren? Or were you just shy of pointing out just how far from anal liv was being? Or am I uneducated and just didn't know that paroxym was a word?

Paroxym (n.): A sudden outburst of emotion or action, but curiously incomplete and unsatisfying.

[livius drusus]

Thanks a lot Joe. :deepsigh:

[Farren]

Selective spell-checking there, Farren? Or were you just shy of pointing out just how far from anal liv was being? Or am I uneducated and just didn't know that paroxym was a word?

Paroxym (n.): A sudden outburst of emotion or action, but curiously incomplete and unsatisfying.

Hahaaaaaa! TWINS

[Farren]

Clearly the passion's gone out of your relationship. Why not fire up some nice, filthy porn, pop Bolero into the CD player and make an effort to try something new.

:D

[Farren]

Seriously though, Liv

Rhythym at least has the virtue of being onomatopoeically well-formed. I think The Simplified Spelling Society (http://www.spellingsociety.org/) would approve (Warning! Language lover's nightmare zone!)

[beyelzu]

Seriously though, Liv

Rhythym at least has the virtue of being onomatopoeically well-formed. I think The Simplified Spelling Society (http://www.spellingsociety.org/) would approve (Warning! Language lover's nightmare zone!)
it might be irrational, but damn that site gives me the willies.


I think I associate intentional language modification with 1984.

plus jernal just looks retarded.

[viscousmemories]

Should I be offended that Joe addressed me in the OP then totally blew off my response? :glare:

[JoeP]

Should I be offended that Joe addressed me in the OP then totally blew off my response? :glare:
Yes, you should, and I'm sorry :cry: :sorry:
I blame my :fuming: internet connection. And the stupid vb software that means if I lose connectivity for a while I lose unread-post status.

I will now reply to your response.

[JoeP]

I don't know much about classical music, but I'm a big fan of Vivaldi's Four Seasons. It's one of few classical CD's I own. :)
:super: for Four Seasons. Also good as a pizza. (Stay on topic dammit, :whip: you've only just started the thread!)

Who is into classical music and what do you like? vm, do you not know much about it because of a lack of exposure or because you actively dislike the stuff you have been exposed to?
No I don't actively dislike anything I've heard, I just can't really differentiate because I'm not really familiar with it. The only classical music ever played in my house as I was growing up was on Bugs Bunny, and funnily I thought it was written and composed to go with the cartoons - not the other way around. Moreover there was a general antipathy toward all things 'high-brow' in my house, probably born of the fact that we were very poor and my parents had no "higher education" to speak of.

I'm familiar with Vivaldi only 'cause I once snatched the Four Seasons out of a bargain bin in an effort to get some exposure to classical music, and in the 10 years since it has remained, by coincidence, the only one I've owned.
I did start a reply, but you deserved a little more time on it than I gave to the later posts so the reply window was still open when Telkom decided to sever my internet connection.

That makes sense. Most classical music isn't hear-it-once-on-the-radio and rush out to buy the CD; it gets to you slowly. All the pieces that do have that instant-appeal quality have been used in adverts and so on and have become a little cheesy. So it does depend on exposure (or over-exposure in some of farren's examples).

Bugs Bunny, check. There's also a Tom and Jerry where Tom is a pianist and the mouse comes out and waltzes. Remember that?

Good that you grabbed the Four Seasons. What's stopping you from grabbing more? Not knowing what to pick? There are (probably several different series by now) CDs called "The Classic Experience" I, II, III, IV etc which focus heavily on the well-known and catchy stuff (familiar from adverts, TV theme tunes, etc). That kind of thing would be well-worth getting.

Or you could order everything mentioned on this thread ...

[D. Scarlatti]

Anyone that wants to start a classical music collection, the first thing they should get is the Brandenburg Concertos (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/search-handle-form/103-9257837-2517449).

I wouldn't bother with any of those "greatest hits" collections. They more often than not don't include complete works, but rather selected movements and whatnot, and you might probably end up buying the same pieces again anyway.

livius, have you ever heard any of Claudio Monteverdi's operas?

Edit: That link don't work so just search Brandenburg Concertos in Classical Music at amazon.com.

[livius drusus]

Not that I know of, Scarlatti. It looks like he was an important figure in the very early history of opera. Would you recommend his work?

[JoeP]

Anyone that wants to start a classical music collection, the first thing they should get is the Brandenburg Concertos (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/search-handle-form/103-9257837-2517449).

I wouldn't bother with any of those "greatest hits" collections. They more often than not don't include complete works, but rather selected movements and whatnot, and you might probably end up buying the same pieces again anyway.

Good one. The Brandenburgs are in my small collection.

I also have Sibelius: Finlandia, Brahms' Symphony No 1, Beethoven's Piano Sonatas (Moonlight, Pathetique and Appassionata) (- they're good ones for a beginning collection too), and *ahem* Also Sprach Zarathustra. And I do have The Planets although I might have said I didn't.

I still maintain hits collections are OK. Yes, you need to know that you're not getting the experience of full-length pieces. Even single movements of symphonies are rarely short enough for these compilations. But the great value is it would help someone like vm - who's taken a small step forwards - to see what kinds of music are more to his taste. Perhaps. I dunno.

[godfry n. glad]

Hmmm... Again, here I am a philistine. An ignorant and untutored philistine.

My musical appreciation training is exceedingly informal and chaotic.

I have decided that I enjoy much of Mozart's material. Also Hayden. And Bach, who I understand is NOT a classical composer, but a baroque one. Beethoven's Brandenburg Concertos is indeed worthy. I found Erik Satie as an adolescent, but was under the understanding that he is NOT classical, but modern.

Are we talking "classical" or "symphonic"?

I find that I tend to prefer the stuff that doesn't lean so heavily upon violins, violas, and cellos...I like pieces that showcase woodwind and brass instruments, so, yes, I enjoyed "Brassed Off" as a film and the aforementioned piece. I was a piccolo player in a marching band as a teenager and was exposed to a lot of John Philip Sousa and what I came to know as "circus music"....but that is neither symphonic nor classical.

Aaron Copeland...Does he qualify as classical, or modern symphonic? I like his stuff. And Stoltz...isn't he the composer of "The Planets"? I like that, but I think it's also "modern", isn't it?

I'm really open for some recommendations of "upbeat" symphonic, chamber, quartet, sextext...or any other smaller group of musicians.

As for opera...well, I have yet to find an opera where I didn't think the vocal caterwaulling didn't ruin the whole piece. My wife and I walked out of the film version of Carmen, with Placido Domingo...It was just too fucking boring. The same with a live performance of Die Fliedermaus. Everything I've heard on the radio reinforces my aversion to operatic vocals. I feel as though I should go to operatic performances armed with a sharpshooters rifle to put the agonizing performers out of their obvious miseries.


godfry

[JoeP]

Damn you, godfry, for being right. Yes, classical is strictly a particular period, and is not the same as baroque, or romantic, or whatever. I think you're right that Bach is pre-classical. And Copland, Satie, Holst (not Stoltz) etc are indeed modern.

But I maintain the common usage of "classical" being everything that isn't "popular". Completely fuzzy definition of course. A symphony or anything orchestral composed today would be called classical by some. But if John Williams composes an orchestral score for a movie, what is it?

"Symphony" is a more well-defined term. You can go to wikipedia as well as I to find one; I'll just introduce some variations on the theme. A symphony can be modern; symphony is about the form not the period and not so much the style. A concerto is not a symphony. An opera is not a symphony.

I think symphonies are always orchestral and thus different from chamber music or compositions for quartets etc. Upbeat symphonies: Beethoven's Ninth.

Anyway, I intended this thread to be about anything remotely termed classical however incorrectly.

[godfry n. glad]

Damn you, godfry, for being right.

Can I quote you on that? :D

Anyway, I intended this thread to be about anything remotely termed classical however incorrectly.

Alright, how about Snow Goose by Camel?

godfry

[JoeP]

don't know it

[JoeP]

Sorry, that was supposed to be a longer post (actually, it was supposed to be rejected). It what way is it "classical"? Rock renditions of "classical" pieces (In the Hall of the Mountain King?) are worth discussing, and (hmm, possibly) orchestral renditions of pops, but aren't really in the scope of someone getting to know "classical" music.

[godfry n. glad]

Sorry, that was supposed to be a longer post (actually, it was supposed to be rejected). It what way is it "classical"? Rock renditions of "classical" pieces (In the Hall of the Mountain King?) are worth discussing, and (hmm, possibly) orchestral renditions of pops, but aren't really in the scope of someone getting to know "classical" music.

The theme and stylings of the Camel Snow Goose album (now CD) seems to me to be "classical" in the sense that is sounds like a woodwind quartet done on a synthesizer. I don't know if it's a "cover" of another composer's work, but I think they claim it as original. The best I can do is suggest that somebody with experience with classical music listen to it and tell me what they think.

godfry

[JoeP]

From your description I'll give it a marginal 50% fit into "broad modern classical".

I don't know if you've come across Karl Jenkins (Adiemus, Imagined Oceans). His work is classical enough in structure and instruments (including choral) to be played on Classic FM, but also has characteristics of experimental/electronic rock: multiple short tracks; only recorded by his own band (ok, "ensemble").

... That's a big difference, almost a defining one I'd suggest: in ye olden days, there was no way to record music so the score, the sheet music, was the composer's product. And you didn't get bands composing stuff, only groups performing traditional and "composer"s' stuff. With the rise of recorded music, you got the rise of the composer's/artist's product being the recording not the sheet music. A live recording of The Wall is a different product from the original studio recording. So somebody who composes on sheet music and gets the Berliner Philharmonic, or the Soweto String Quartet, to perform it is "classical" in a clear sense.

afterthought: I think the rise of composer-performers in serious began with jazz, and happened in performance not necessarily in recordings. Of course, Mozart et al performed their stuff, but there were many more performers than successful composers.

joe

[livius drusus]

As for opera...well, I have yet to find an opera where I didn't think the vocal caterwaulling didn't ruin the whole piece.

Well, if you hate vibrato, there's no opera I'm familiar with that won't suck for you. I used to hate it when I was little and my parents dragged me to the opera very much against my will (I only wanted to see the ballets) because I thought it was just overdone and exaggerated and stupid.

Now I find I love a quality vibrato, that it effectively separates the ready-voiced microphone addicts from the genuine articles and most of all, that it drives the emotional impact of a beautiful aria straight into my heart.

My wife and I walked out of the film version of Carmen, with Placido Domingo...It was just too fucking boring. The same with a live performance of Die Fliedermaus.

I've never seen a televised opera that wasn't stupid - unless Carmen Jones counts - and with the sole wonderful exception of Tosca, operas tend to feature limited and uninterested staging.

Still, every once in a blue moon, the Rome Opera puts on a Tosca in the city of Rome. Instead of using sets in a theater, they set the performance in the actual places: Act 1 in San Giovanni Laterano; Act 2 in some insanely fancy 18th c. palace; Act 3 at Castel Sant' Angelo. It's magnificent. Redefines the word, really.

Everything I've heard on the radio reinforces my aversion to operatic vocals. I feel as though I should go to operatic performances armed with a sharpshooters rifle to put the agonizing performers out of their obvious miseries.

Philistine.

[Ymir's blood]

Now I find I love a quality vibrato
Must.... resist...

[livius drusus]

Now I find I love a quality vibrato
Must.... resist...

Degenerate. Nothing but Philistines and degenerates round heah. :snooty:

[Ymir's blood]

Now I find I love a quality vibrato
Must.... resist...

Degenerate. Nothing but Philistines and degenerates round heah. :snooty:

So which are you? :wink:

[godfry n. glad]

Philistine.

But of course. You forgot the "ignorant" part.... :wink:

godfry

[Farren]

Now I find I love a quality vibrato
Must.... resist...

Degenerate. Nothing but Philistines and degenerates round heah. :snooty:

Degenerates are people who think the William Tell Overture was written for The Lone Ranger

[D. Scarlatti]

It looks like [Monteverdi] was an important figure in the very early history of opera. Would you recommend his work?

I'm not all that familiar with much of it myself, aside from a few excerpts from L'Orfeo, L'incoronazione di Poppea, and some madrigals. But what I have heard is pretty striking, since it's kind of on the threshold between medieval and "modern" tonality.

I don't know how much WinMX-ing or Kazaa-ing you do, but, since they're on the Norton Anthology of Western Music (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0393969061/103-9257837-2517449?v=glance) CDs, look for Monteverdi's madrigal Ohimè dov'è il mio ben, it's quite beautiful.

Also, the very next tracks on the Norton CDs are* a cantata by a 17th century Italian woman composer named Barbara Strozzi (http://www.home.earthlink.net/~barbarastrozzi/index.htm), called Lagrime mie, which is very gorgeous and moving.

* The Norton CDs break individual works into separate tracks that correspond to the study scores in the accompanying text.