Bush SUCKS! (Warning: stream of consciousness fear-based rant within)

[livius drusus]

He's horrible, awful, nails on a blackboard horrendous nightmarish violently viciously bad bad bad fucking bad. I swear to god I cannot believe my eyes with his suckery. I am seriously tied up in negative energy knot over how much I hate that man.

Kerry looks like fucking Aristotle compared to him. And the thing is, I know, I know, fucking hell I live in fear that the reviews will come out tomorrow and the mainstream press will be all "President Bush was handsome tall and proud. His intellect is truly astounding, his poise breathtaking, his rhetoric both fluid and hard-hitting. He is not, repeat, not a complete and utter fucking TWEAKER."

He has eyes like the Canadians in South Park. He can't speak English, only talking points. He snorts. He smirks. He splutters. "Of course I know Osama bin Laden attacked us. Of course I know that." Splutter, spit, drool.

They're going to soft-focus him, I know it. He's going to get away with it. People are going to keep talking as if he weren't brain damaged. I can barely stand it. My arms itch. I think I'm allergic to the President of the United States.

Oh god... The pauses... He's a fucking robot, I swear. His data stream is staticky.

Moolah. Instead of mullah. Moolah. With nukular in the same sentence. Twice. Santa Maria madre dei ora pro nobis pecatorium...

[Scotty]

I will make the debate available online for you. Just for you.

Plus, I think I will get the Daily Show followup.

Prepare to be amazed, again.

-Scott

[Dingfod]

It's the low forehead and the fucking smart-ass smirk that irritate the shit out of me. I know lots of very nice people that can't speak very well, but they're not the p-resident of the huge knighted stakes.

If Bush is a robot, he's a shitty fucking robot. The mad scientist who built him should be run out of town by a crowd with torches and pitchforks.

[livius drusus]

Stop saying "multi-prong" like it's a big fucking deal that there is more than one fucking prong, you fucking idiot!

Vladuhmurr. Vladuhmurr Poo'in.

[freemonkey]

Kerry looks like fucking Aristotle compared to him. And the thing is, I know, I know, fucking hell I live in fear that the reviews will come out tomorrow and the mainstream press will be all "President Bush was handsome tall and proud. His intellect is truly astounding, his poise breathtaking, his rhetoric both fluid and hard-hitting. He is not, repeat, not a complete and utter fucking TWEAKER."

:hug: I know, I know. I was thinking the same thing, and trying to shut down some of my brain cells to try and hear it the way some of my neighbors will.

I, too, am afraid.

I wish I'd counted all the times he repeated the words "hard work", and others meant to pad his minutes. And all the NON-ANSWERS! And his little speech about the war widow "Missy". OMfuckingG :gag:

I hate him too.

AAAAARRRRGGGGHHHHH! Is he throwing a little prayer in there! :fuming:

[freemonkey]

phreliverasion.

[LadyShea]

My gawd. That man runs the free world. Theres a fun thread on II of all of our comments during the debate.

Hopefully everyone watched CSPAN with the split screen.

[Scotty]

Shoot, I didn't record CSPAN, I should have done that. Darn.
Oh well, I will get it available tomorrow sometime, just to get all of the proper terms recorded specifically for Liv.

Plus the Daily Show.

-Scott

[freemonkey]

My gawd. That man runs the free world. Theres a fun thread on II of all of our comments during the debate.
I'm just reading that now.

"Flip-flop. He's a flip-flopper! SEE?? FLIP-FLOPPER! FLIP! FLIPPY FLOPPY FLIP FLOP!"

OMG, I just fell off my chair. :roflmao:

[LadyShea]

Scotty, CSPAN is going to show it again right away, now and later tonight as well.

[Scotty]

Cool, I will try to catch that copy too.
-Scott

[LadyShea]

The split screen really gave so much more depth to the thing, so much more information somehow.

[livius drusus]

The Daily Show is hilarious as always, and of course they're not looking to spin Bush's abysmal performance as manly or something. It's a great relief. :relieved:

[dave_a]

The Daily Show is hilarious as always, and of course they're not looking to spin Bush's abysmal performance as manly or something. It's a great relief. :relieved:

I dunno, I thought Bush kicked Kerry's ass handily in the debate. I despise Bush as much as the next person, but Bush simply trounced him.

Bush is gonna win, Kerry needed the debates to pull him ahead and he failed miserably.

[freemonkey]

I dunno, I thought Bush kicked Kerry's ass handily in the debate. I despise Bush as much as the next person, but Bush simply trounced him.

Bush is gonna win, Kerry needed the debates to pull him ahead and he failed miserably.
Huh? For real?

Will someone let me know if they'll re-air that Daily Show segment?

[livius drusus]

Thankfully, even the usual suspect mainstream media whores are so far not seeing this victory you've seen, dantonac. I myself saw a borderline-retarded simian being called "Mr. President" between spastic bouts of words strung together like shiny little beads of puke, but as I keened above, I don't expect the rest of the country to see what I see.

[livius drusus]

Will someone let me know if they'll re-air that Daily Show segment?

Tomorrow at 7:00 EST on Comedy Central.

[LadyShea]

The Daily Show is hilarious as always, and of course they're not looking to spin Bush's abysmal performance as manly or something. It's a great relief. :relieved:

I dunno, I thought Bush kicked Kerry's ass handily in the debate. I despise Bush as much as the next person, but Bush simply trounced him.

Bush is gonna win, Kerry needed the debates to pull him ahead and he failed miserably.
:eek:

The derisive snorting laughter, 10-second pauses, mangled words, mangled names, sputtering, stammering, flushing, smirking and robotic repetitions didn't seem, I dunno, unpresidential to you?

[Goliath]

Lately I've been a bit afraid of November as well, but the debate has given me a bit of optimism. Of course Bush sounded like an idiot...he always does. But Kerry seemed to be less aloof and more to-the-point than usual. I think (and at least hope) that the public came away with a better idea as to what Kerry wants to do and why.

And also Kerry is taller than Bush (6'4" vs. 5'11", according to a newspaper article I glanced at earlier tonight), and there's a large correlation between the winners of presidential races and the taller candidates of presidential races.

If only correlation implied causation in this case......

[Scotty]

Missed the CSPAN thing, I will check again tomorrow.

I can't fathom Bush winning this debate, and I used to like Rudy Giuliani, but all of the things he was mis-quoting was just amazing. I should have been recording all of that crap so I could cut it in with the original debat.

Damn.

I will have the Daily Show online tomorrow for those that didn't catch it (oh, and Rudy should be on that mis-quoting or misunderstanding).

-Scott

[pzmyers]

The Daily Show had Rob Corddry giving the Republican position on the outcome of the debate.

"By not allowing himself to be reduced to tears, the president was a big winner tonight."

"A retarded man held his own against a sitting senator. You've gotta re-elect him!"

Stewart also gave good play to those freaky pauses Bush was making.

But Giuliani--jeez. He was desperate. Lying at a frantic pace.

[viscousmemories]

All you elitist bastards with your T.V.'s really burn my ass.

[The Lone Ranger]

Yeah, I almost wish I had a television, so I could watch it. (Okay, technically I do have a television, but I refuse to get cable, so I use it only for watching the occasional dvd.)

Judging from how Gore simply destroyed Bush in the 2000 debates, yet all the media outlets were practically falling over themselves to say how well Bush performed, I'm not looking forward to the reviews tomorrow. *Sigh*



Vladuhmurr. Vladuhmurr Poo'in.

Remember when Bush "looked into Putin's soul" and declared that he liked what he saw? Good gravy! I don't know what was more astonishing -- that he'd actually admit to forming his opinions of world leaders on such a basis, or that the American people didn't immediately demand his resignation.


On the other hand, maybe there's something to it:

"Hmm, a wannabe autocrat who 'won' the election under highly suspicious circumstances. Someone who's using the threat of terrorism (largely spurred by his own policies) to 'justify' giving himself more and more power. A guy who uses the excuse of 'national security' to stifle the democratic process and further tighten his grip on power. A guy who has nothing but contempt for the will of the people, but claims to have a 'popular mandate' to rule exactly as he sees fit. A guy who basically tells the rest of the civilized world to take a flying leap every time someone protests his arbitrary and thoughtless decisions. Someone who demonizes his opponents, and no matter how disastrous his policies turn out to be, is utterly incapable of admitting to having ever exercised bad judgment. He's definitely my kind of guy!"

Cheers,

Michael

[livius drusus]

Yeah, I almost wish I had a television, so I could watch it. (Okay, technically I do have a television, but I refuse to get cable, so I use it only for watching the occasional dvd.)

That's cool, Michael. Thanks to Scotty, you can keep your principles and watch the debates. :)

Judging from how Gore simply destroyed Bush in the 2000 debates, yet all the media outlets were practically falling over themselves to say how well Bush performed, I'm not looking forward to the reviews tomorrow. *Sigh*

So far, so good, I'm relieved to say. It looks like the overwhelming response is that Kerry won the day and Bush is a vapid shell of a human being. Okay, well, maybe not the latter in so many words, but that's just 'cause they're being polite.

Did anyone see cartoonist Aaron McGruder on CNN last night? I missed it, but from Salon's War Room (http://www.salon.com/politics/war_room/index.html):

While pundits on the left, right, and center agreed that John Kerry beat George Bush in the opening debate, none was more emphatic than “Boondocks” cartoonist Aaron McGruder. “Bush got his ass whupped,” McGruder told CNN’s Aaron Brown.

But the outspoken McGruder, who was relegated to “The Contrarian” segment of Brown’s news show, was not finished. “The elephant in the room” that no TV pontificators will dare acknowledge, he observed, is that Bush “is incredibly dumb...he can’t articulate, he can’t complete a full sentence, and he’s our president.”

Brown, being a member in good standing of the pontificator class, rushed to challenge McGruder, asserting that Bush was a man of strong beliefs, blah, blah, blah. But McGruder was unimpressed. Convictions don’t mean a thing if you’re just plain stupid, he pointed out.

And with that, Brown bade The Contrarian farewell.

:bow:

[Godless Dave]

That guy is dumber than dogshit.

[livius drusus]

Here's (http://news.bbc.co.uk/nol/shared/bsp/hi/pdfs/01_10_04_debate1.pdf) the White House press office trancript of the debates. It doesn't do justice to Bush's complete and utter stupidity.

[Godless Dave]

It's hard to convey on paper the moment when he asked for 30 more seconds, and then hemmed and hawed with a blank expression on his face for 15 of them.

Did anyone else notice that Lehrer gave Bush the extension whenever he asked for it, and sometimes when he didn't, but blew off one of Kerry's requests? There was also the time Lehrer gave Bush 30 seconds but skipped Kerry and went on to the next question.

In a country of media whores, Lehrer is a high-priced call girl.

The only reason I was able to sit through this monstrosity was I was at a debate party at a bar with at least a hundred other raucous Democrats who laughed at Bush and made all kinds of comments. Representative Betty McCollum tried to get us to sit quietly and listen but we ignored her. I don't like her much anyway, but we gotta take what we can get.

[livius drusus]

It's hard to convey on paper the moment when he asked for 30 more seconds, and then hemmed and hawed with a blank expression on his face for 15 of them.

Did anyone else notice that Lehrer gave Bush the extension whenever he asked for it, and sometimes when he didn't, but blew off one of Kerry's requests? There was also the time Lehrer gave Bush 30 seconds but skipped Kerry and went on to the next question.

I didn't notice the brush-off, actually. To be completely honest, I spent more than a little time with my hands over my eyes, trying to fight the urge to claw my eyes out. I saw Bush fuck the extension, though. Retarded pauses were one of the salient features of his performance.

Speaking of retarded pauses, you might like to check out this (http://slate.msn.com/id/2107516/) nice through the looking glass article on the post-debate spin efforts.

One of the first questions asked of Rove was whether the president's frequent pausing was a problem. Rove disputed that Bush paused because he wasn't sure what to say. "Paused for effect, is what I think," he said. Over and over again, Bush surrogates were asked about the president's demeanor. (Question for Paul Krugman: Are you still angry about the media's focus on style over substance?) Wasn't the president defensive? a reporter asked Matthew Dowd. Didn't he look confused? a reporter asked Ken Mehlman. "I think he spoke with passion," Mehlman said. Another reporter asked Bartlett, didn't the president look irritated? Tired? "I think he showed a range of emotions," Bartlett said.

Shills from hell.

[Ronin]

I dunno, I thought Bush kicked Kerry's ass handily in the debate. I despise Bush as much as the next person, but Bush simply trounced him.

Bush is gonna win, Kerry needed the debates to pull him ahead and he failed miserably.

Thanks, dantonac...good one.

:bow:

:roflmao:

[Goliath]

That guy is dumber than dogshit.

Agreed. What personally worries me though (and is quite embarrassing, IMO) is that when I hear the president speak, I usually don't catch all of the "Bush-isms" on the first listen...maybe 40-50% of them. However, after seeing a clip 2 or 3 times, I end up catching them all.

Sometimes I wonder if that makes me only one and a half times more intelligent than he is. :eek:

[beyelzu]

I am watching the debate right now. I had to work last night.

[beyelzu]

It's hard to convey on paper the moment when he asked for 30 more seconds, and then hemmed and hawed with a blank expression on his face for 15 of them.

Did anyone else notice that Lehrer gave Bush the extension whenever he asked for it, and sometimes when he didn't, but blew off one of Kerry's requests? There was also the time Lehrer gave Bush 30 seconds but skipped Kerry and went on to the next question.

I didn't notice the brush-off, actually. To be completely honest, I spent more than a little time with my hands over my eyes, trying to fight the urge to claw my eyes out. I saw Bush fuck the extension, though. Retarded pauses were one of the salient features of his performance.
the retarded pauses are incredibly evident and I have only been watching it for a couple of minutes right now. and Bush seems confused quite often. I dont want a confused president I dont.

Speaking of retarded pauses, you might like to check out this (http://slate.msn.com/id/2107516/) nice through the looking glass article on the post-debate spin efforts.

One of the first questions asked of Rove was whether the president's frequent pausing was a problem. Rove disputed that Bush paused because he wasn't sure what to say. "Paused for effect, is what I think," he said. Over and over again, Bush surrogates were asked about the president's demeanor. (Question for Paul Krugman: Are you still angry about the media's focus on style over substance?) Wasn't the president defensive? a reporter asked Matthew Dowd. Didn't he look confused? a reporter asked Ken Mehlman. "I think he spoke with passion," Mehlman said. Another reporter asked Bartlett, didn't the president look irritated? Tired? "I think he showed a range of emotions," Bartlett said.

Shills from hell.
damn, paused for effect, yeah right.

[livius drusus]

Uh oh. Does that mean I should have put Bush is a fucking cretin in spoiler tags?

[beyelzu]

Uh oh. Does that mean I should have put Bush is a fucking cretin in spoiler tags?
well, I might have had some preexisting knowledge about that.

sadly, if you have gone four years without realizing that Bush is a dipshit, then you probably arent going to pick up on it during the debates.

But we can hope.

[viscousmemories]

Sadly I think it's probable that Bush's intellectual simplicity and stubborn complacency are part of his appeal to the apparently quite large "unsophisticated" demographic. And I don't mean that to sound condescending, either. I just think a very large number of Americans are no more interested in or knowledgeable about political complexities than I was a few months ago, which wasn't much.

As I said on Nirvana's blog the other day Bush is definitive, meaning he has no problem at all making bold, unwavering statements on issues he seems to have no real understanding of, much less interest in. And I think it's probable that a lot of people who don't know the details of the issues themselves confuse this false bravado with genuine assurance of the rightness of his actions.

I won't be at all surprised if he's re-elected, but then again I saw the Terminator sweep California* and the very knowledgeable, intelligent Peter Camejo get 3% of the vote. So it'd be pretty hard to surprise me.


*Yeah okay so I reuse the example a lot. I told you I'm new at this. :P

[livius drusus]

Check out the Faces of Frustration (http://www.democrats.org/) vid the DP put together. :hysteric:

[freemonkey]

Check out the Faces of Frustration (http://www.democrats.org/) vid the DP put together. :hysteric:

Hahahaha,there were a couple that were priceless, including the rapid-blinking-eye-pursed-lips thing and the one where it looks like he's trying to interupt. When I first saw that, I thought it looked like he was motioning to someone out in the audience.

BTW, I managed to catch & tape the rebroadcast of the yesterday's Daily Show this morning. :D

[livius drusus]

Hahahaha,there were a couple that were priceless, including the rapid-blinking-eye-pursed-lips thing and the one where it looks like he's trying to interupt.

I love those weird lip things! Twenty bucks says he woke up this morning with at least 3 canker sores.

BTW, I managed to catch & tape the rebroadcast of the yesterday's Daily Show this morning. :D

Brilliant, was it not? Rob Cordry was particularly on his game.

[JoeP]

sadly, if you have gone four years without realizing that Bush is a dipshit, then you probably arent going to pick up on it during the debates.
:LMAO:

[JoeP]

The Daily Show is hilarious as always, and of course they're not looking to spin Bush's abysmal performance as manly or something. It's a great relief. :relieved:

I dunno, I thought Bush kicked Kerry's ass handily in the debate. I despise Bush as much as the next person, but Bush simply trounced him.

Bush is gonna win, Kerry needed the debates to pull him ahead and he failed miserably.
No way?

All y'all, please post what your media says about it tomorrow. I know you will anyway.

Headlines here: Kerry trounces Bush. I read the headlines waved at me while I was driving home, but I didn't check which newspaper and can't find it online.

The BBC article (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/3703756.stm) sits on the fence, terminally balanced as ever, but their graphic shows 45% of people thinking Kerry won vs 35% thinking Bush won.The ABC poll also showed that 89% of Mr Kerry's supporters thought he had won, compared to only 69% of Bush supporters who thought the president dominated.

This is fun:No beating about the bush on these walls
October 1, 2004

Al-Asad air base, Iraq - The US military, which traditionally avoids meddling in politics, is expressing its views about the US presidential race in the one place where a soldier can speak his mind freely: the latrines.

Here, in graffiti, young soldiers wax philosophical - albeit crudely and with a fondness for four-letter words - about God, death, President George Bush and Democratic rival John Kerry.

And if one straw poll is to be believed on this gigantic air base in the western Iraqi desert, Kerry is due to rout Bush in the November 2 elections, after the Massachusetts senator picked up 73 votes to 58 on the bathroom wall.

The toilet wall vents a surprising amount of anger over Bush, considered by many rank-and-file a great wartime president, and heaps a mountain of cynicism on the US presence in Iraq.

Much of the bile is dedicated to denigrating Bush's home state of Texas.

"Here I sit cheeks a-flexin'. Bout to make another Texan," one rhyme reads, repeated in multiple stalls.

In black felt pen, one soldier scrawled a maxim from Plato that rings true whoever wins the November election: "Only the dead have seen the end of war." - Sapa-AFP

[Scotty]

Small video of the Daily Show, sorry, don't have the time to make another right now, I am putting a DVD together of both the debate and The Daily Show for some people at work.

The Daily Show Presidential Coverage (http://imageserv01.yss4.com/scott/movies/TheDailyShow.mov)


-Scott

[Goliath]

The idiots of SD are split as to who th ey thought won. (http://www.argusleader.com/news/Fridayarticle1.shtml)

God damn I hate this fucking state! :fuming:

[livius drusus]

Wow. Graffiti is really a remarkable document of an era. Thanks for posting that exerpt, JoeP.

Scotty, you are as always, the AV :king:.

[Dingfod]

How could you hear this and not come off thinking "This man is an idiot."?
"In Iraq, no doubt about it, it's tough. It's hard work. It's incredibly hard. It's - and it's hard work. I understand how hard it is. I get the casualty reports every day. I see on the TV screens how hard it is. But it's necessary work. We're making progress. It is hard work. You know my hardest, the hardest part of the job is to know that I committed the troops in harm's way and then do the best I can to provide comfort for the loves ones who lost a son or a daughter or husband and wife."I am reminded of Will Farrell's Bush calling Daddy Bush whining "This president job is haaaaard."

Jay Nordlinger (http://www.nationalreview.com/nordlinger/nordlinger200410010114.asp), Republican and Bush supporter said this of the debate:
I thought Kerry did very, very well; and I thought Bush did poorly — much worse than he is capable of doing. Listen: If I were just a normal guy — not Joe Political Junkie — I would vote for Kerry. On the basis of that debate, I would. If I were just a normal, fairly conservative, war-supporting guy: I would vote for Kerry. On the basis of that debate.

And I promise you that no one wants this president reelected more than I. I think that he may want it less.

Let me phrase one more time what I wish to say: If I didn't know anything — were a political naïf, being introduced to the two candidates for the first time — I would vote for Kerry. Based on that infernal debate.

[JoeP]

Wow. Graffiti is really a remarkable document of an era. Thanks for posting that exerpt, JoeP.

Scotty, you are as always, the AV :king:.
excerpt :innocent2:

[Scotty]

This is the part of the debate that Kerry is going to get screwed on.

When I first listened to it, I didn't catch the significance, because it didn't really sound like he was responding to the last point.

Ah well: Kerry's Booboo (http://imageserv03.yss4.com/scott/movies/Kerrys_booboo.mov)

It almost seems as if the questions are more biting towards Kerry than Bush.

-Scott

[Petra]

I really wish I'd seen this debate. Especially this one, as it was about foreign policy.

The thing that scares me, is that Kerry may come out top dog in the debates, but that didn't help Gore any when it came to the crunch. I'm still afraid that Bush will win, one way or the other. God, I hope I'm wrong. :(

[Scotty]

I will make the entire debate available, but probably only to people that PM me, as it will, at a guess, be about 400mb and I don't want that available on an open forum.

-Scott

[livius drusus]

Betty Bowers on the debates (http://bettybowers.com/nl_october2004.html). :D

[Petra]

Thanks for that liv! :hysteric:



And I swear that when I read this:

...he is quite the sassy little coquette in his new beige blond hairdo!

I wondered for a moment if you were Betty Bowers.


...are you?

[livius drusus]

Man, that's some high, high praise. Wait. Are you high? :wtf:

Oh well, either way I'm thrilled to be compared to a genius of Bower's stature. Just for that, I give you The Cry of the Broken-Hearted Bush Worshipper (http://www.nationalreview.com/nordlinger/nordlinger200410010114.asp).

[Petra]

...I give you The Cry of the Broken-Hearted Bush Worshipper (http://www.nationalreview.com/nordlinger/nordlinger200410010114.asp).

Wow. Just Wow.



A part of me was happy to read what he wrote, but then as I got to the end, it scared me. I mean, Rushmore-level President? This guy sounds intelligent and observant, seems to know shit - so how the hell can he see Bush as a Rushmore-level President?! Fuck. Me.

I've only really seen the CF crowd as Bush lovers and they are (for the most part) a pretty brainless lot. I say for the most part, because there are intelligent ones among them, but there is still something incredibly one-eyed about them - an angry patriot and kinda "God's chosen few" attitude about them - I don't know what it is. But that guy, that guy really scares me more than the dumbasses out there.

Actually, here is a post by a guy at CF who sums up the different sides rather poetically. A little long-winded, but very eloquent:

There is an aspect of the debate and its evaluation, that has very much to do with democracy.

Kerry won in the "non-democratic" aspect. He was more erudite, more intelligent, more connected with fact and reality. Some have referred to this by saying he was the better "speaker".

Yet he may well not have won in a crucial democratic aspect. None of what he was able to bring to bear through these qualities, may have seen him engage with a crucial constituency, amounting to about half of the voting electorate of the USA.

What are the mechanics behind this? What which sees him connect with reality and truth, as seen by one constituency: precludes him from connecting, at all, with another constituency? How are we to understand such division?

How do you cope with globalisation? That to me is the touchstone of what distinguishes the two constituencies?

I think Kerry says: see it, understand it, engage with it; master it through embracing and leading it? He, and perhaps those who might vote for him, manifest the characteristics and personal qualities which might allow this.

I think Bush says: contain this emerging globalisation, more or less as an extension of America; make it American, make it submit to America. Bush, and perhaps those who vote for him, exemplify the characteristics and qualities which might see America set out to bring this about.

Kerry and his people require a refined intelligence: Bush and his people require a robust conviction. Kerry says international: Bush says American patriotism.

Crudely put, you have intelligence meeting patriotism: Kerry's intelligence simply might not reach and touch those regulated by patriotism; what you require to be a good American patriot, even within a bubble of foreign expedition, while having its own skill set, does not require the Kerry intelligence.

This feeds into and resolves the flip-flop claim. Kerry does not change his position: rather, the refinement of his position, when viewed from differing points of view, offers different aspect and prospect. The position remains the same: but the position is extensive, complex and subtle; when it is viewed from different points of the compass which it covers, it appears variantly.

You take one Mustang. You view it from the front, from the rear, from the sides, under the bonnet (hood), from below, in the trunk. microscopically, macroscopically, mechanically, environmentally, physically, electrochemically, in terms of fundamental particle physics, financially, as a product, as a possession, as an icon, whatever. You always have the one unified item, one Mustang. But the reality of this one Mustang, through the lines of its creation, production and usage: is rich and complex.

The ideas we need to comprehend and take part in global reality are no different: they are complex, extensive, multi-facetted, subtle.

What Bush spinning does, is simply take what are several aspects of one unified Kerry conception: and say look, this aspect is not the same as this aspect; the Kerry vision of the front of the Mustang, is different of the Kerry vision of the rear of the Mustang. They then say Kerry flip-flops on the Mustang: do not let him take charge of the Mustang; follow Bush who only ever gives you the single view of the Mustang, say from the front.

The democratic fact we must face: is that some people do not want to know that the Mustang has many sides. From Texas the Mustang is always seen from the front: some people just do not want to get into having to consider that a Mustang can be viewed from different angles; that is just absurdly too demanding.

Bush is the politician who appeals to those who want to believe that the reality of the world, is confined and exhausted by what they can see from where they occur, period. That Bush appeals to people who in fact stand in many different occurrences, does not preclude this. He coheres and carries a political consensus, which allows half of voting America, to see that consensus as reflecting their immediate and personal occurrence.

The intelligence of Kerry, while inseparable from the constituency who might vote for him: simply has no function or resonance in the occurrences of those who might vote for Bush.

The differences between these constituencies, are just far more fundamental and deep, than often recognised: and manifests and constitutes a crisis of American democracy; the division of American society into two camps, with very little relation and interchange between the two.

Bush and Kerry, while struggling for partisan advantage within this electoral exigency, have not understood or mastered it.

It will be essential, before another Presidential election, to develop a politics, and a couple of the partisan, which does better understand and master this exigency. It is crucial to America that its politicians regain the capacity to speak to more of the electorate, hopefully all of the electorate.

Emphasis mine.

http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?p=9562271&postcount=82

[Dingfod]

Man, that's some high, high praise. Wait. Are you high? :wtf:

Oh well, either way I'm thrilled to be compared to a genius of Bower's stature. Just for that, I give you The Cry of the Broken-Hearted Bush Worshipper (http://www.nationalreview.com/nordlinger/nordlinger200410010114.asp).
That's the same link I posted here. (http://www.freethought-forum.com/forum/showpost.php?p=9953&postcount=44)
I'm fucking invisible.

[livius drusus]

I'm sorry, warren. I didn't read the link when you posted it and I didn't recognize the para you had quoted when I came across it from a Salon link today.

You're not invisible; I'm just stupid.

[LadyShea]

I really wish I'd seen this debate. Especially this one, as it was about foreign policy.

The thing that scares me, is that Kerry may come out top dog in the debates, but that didn't help Gore any when it came to the crunch. I'm still afraid that Bush will win, one way or the other. God, I hope I'm wrong. :(

I may be wrong, but I believe for the Bush/Gore debates, they were given the questions ahead of time...so Bush came off way better than he did this time.

[Petra]

I'm fucking invisible.

Never heard of her. Is she a new gal here at FF, or do you know her from somewhere else?

You old coyote, you. :wink:



I just had a thought! I'm invisible! You lie!

[Petra]

I may be wrong, but I believe for the Bush/Gore debates, they were given the questions ahead of time...so Bush came off way better than he did this time.

I missed those debates, too. I honestly thought that Gore would be a shoo-in, so didn't pay as close attention to things as I am now. And things were...errr... different then; I mean, who knew? :shrug:

Anyway, I couldn't believe what I was hearing immediately following that election. I was just so sure that Gore would win, and Bush would get walked on. Man, was I ever wrong. :eek:

[Petra]

I'm just stupid.

Bollocks.

[LadyShea]

Gore should have won by a lanslide like Clinton did. I think Gore fucked up by distancing himself from the Clinton administration over the morality issue. He could have used the good things that came out of his administration, like the strong economy and kept the race from being so damned close, IMO.

Tht this race is so close, after everything Bush has done, boggles my mind.

[Petra]

Tht this race is so close, after everything Bush has done, boggles my mind.

Ditto.

Scary as hell, too.

[Beth]

Tht this race is so close, after everything Bush has done, boggles my mind.
I think the religious climate changed after 9-11. Sad to say. Religious fundamentalism grew, at least in my area, and these people are often Bush's core supporters.

[wildernesse]

Thanks for posting BobbieDog's views, lunachick. I've begun to realize that I must keep an eye out for his posts.

[Petra]

Thanks for posting BobbieDog's views, lunachick. I've begun to realize that I must keep an eye out for his posts.

My pleasure. He can be a little convoluted sometimes, but is rich with pearls. :)

[Dingfod]

I'm sorry, warren. I didn't read the link when you posted it and I didn't recognize the para you had quoted when I came across it from a Salon link today.

You're not invisible; I'm just stupid.
Oh, I'm not mad. I just been noticing that I've killed a number of threads lately.

[Scotty]

Did you say something Warren?

Anyway, I have the debate available, PM me if you want to download it. It is 200megs, not 400megs, I was just seeing double I guess, I knew what the size would be but can't add.

-Scott

[Scotty]

Sorry, I had the wrong link to the Daily Show, here is the right one.

The Daily Show Presidential Coverage (http://imageserv03.yss4.com/scott/movies/TheDailyShow.mov)

-Scott

[Petra]

Scotty,

Thank you so very much for allowing me to see the debate. I've just finished downloading and viewing it, and I found it to be very informative about each candidate. I've always had my doubts about Kerry, but this has minimised them to some degree. Thank you. I'll comment further when I get the time - in about an hour I have to get Zoe ready for her new school term, get her back to her school boarding house, and I'll probably go out after that.

I'm now downloading the Daily Show - something I need cable tv to watch, and I don't have cable - so thanks again.

:bow: :bow: :bow:

[Beth]

Yes. I was a reluctant Kerry person till I watched the debates. I have no doubt that Bush does have smarts, despite his simplistic speak. I seem to understand the way he speaks and can see why half the country sees him as a leader (Do not get me wrong, I enjoyed the debate immensely, I was horribly mean, laughing at his idiocy, debating with hubby.) but Kerry did it for me. I finally saw a man who was more sophistocated and better fit to be a world leader. He understands the importance of the world and seems less of an isolationist. I look forward to the rest of the debates, but I can say that the conscience of this swing voter was finally put to rest and can vote for a leader, rather than "anyone is better than Bush".

[Petra]

Yes. I was a reluctant Kerry person till I watched the debates.....I can say that the conscience of this swing voter was finally put to rest and can vote for a leader, rather than "anyone is better than Bush".

I agree. (Even if I can't vote).


Oh, and look at Bush's debate notes (http://www.thetalentshow.org/archives/001296.html):

For someone who I've long suspected is illiterate, Bush seemed to be furiously taking notes yesterday. At times, the scribbling was so loud you could hear it over Kerry. Thanks to an undercover operative, The Talent Show is now able to present the notes that Bush took during last night's debate. With this peek behind the scenes, we hope to provide a candid look at the commander in chief.

http://www.thetalentshow.org/images/bushnotes.jpg

:D

[The Lone Ranger]

Anyway, I couldn't believe what I was hearing immediately following that election. I was just so sure that Gore would win, and Bush would get walked on. Man, was I ever wrong. :eek:

That's just the thing. You weren't wrong -- Gore made Bush look like a simpering idiot by comparison. Gore showed a commanding grasp of the facts and issues, was confident and articulate, and generally ran rings around Bush. Bush was evasive, inarticulate, had a poor grasp of the facts and issues (to be charitable), and on at least two occasions he outright lied.

The thing is, though, everyone expected Gore to make Bush look like a fool. Since Bush didn't come across quite as badly as everyone expected him to, the pundits declared him to be the "winner."


What a truly awful thing that says about this country: "Vote for Bush; sure he's incompetent, but he's not as incompetent as you thought!"

Cheers,

Michael

[beyelzu]

Yes. I was a reluctant Kerry person till I watched the debates.....I can say that the conscience of this swing voter was finally put to rest and can vote for a leader, rather than "anyone is better than Bush".

I agree. (Even if I can't vote).


Oh, and look at Bush's debate notes (http://www.thetalentshow.org/archives/001296.html):

For someone who I've long suspected is illiterate, Bush seemed to be furiously taking notes yesterday. At times, the scribbling was so loud you could hear it over Kerry. Thanks to an undercover operative, The Talent Show is now able to present the notes that Bush took during last night's debate. With this peek behind the scenes, we hope to provide a candid look at the commander in chief.

http://www.thetalentshow.org/images/bushnotes.jpg

:D



fuck that is a funny, funny picture.

[livius drusus]

He he... Ninjas are cool.

[beyelzu]

who knew that Bush worshipped her hornfulness the ipu??


I had no idea.

[BigBlue2]

Gore should have won by a lanslide like Clinton did. I think Gore fucked up by distancing himself from the Clinton administration over the morality issue. He could have used the good things that came out of his administration, like the strong economy and kept the race from being so damned close, IMO.
Exactly right, which is why I get annoyed when Democrats whinge about the Florida shenanigans. Gore didn't lose because of the Florida shenanigans, he lost because he ran a crap campaign, mainly because he didn't use one of the best campaigners that the Democrats have ever produced. Gore couldn't even win his home state, which as far as I know is something that even Walter Mondale managed to do.

That this race is so close, after everything Bush has done, boggles my mind.
You're definitely not the only one that this is happening to.

[maddog]

That this race is so close, after everything Bush has done, boggles my mind.
Yes. Add me to the list of boggle-head dolls. :yup: :eek:
#34

[Farren]

He he... Ninjas are cool.

They're so totally sweet (http://www.realultimatepower.net/index3.htm) its unbefuckinglievable.

[livius drusus]

Ninjas can kill anyone they want! Ninjas cut off heads ALL the time and don't even think twice about it. These guys are so crazy and awesome that they flip out ALL the time. I heard that there was this ninja who was eating at a diner. And when some dude dropped a spoon the ninja killed the whole town. My friend Mark said that he saw a ninja totally uppercut some kid just because the kid opened a window.

:rofl:

[The Lone Ranger]

Not only that, but ninjas make great fast food (http://www.ninjaburger.com/).

Guaranteed delivery in 30 minutes or less, or we commit Seppuku!