Goliath appreciation; how best to show it?

[seebs]

Okay.

Let's be blunt.

Here, at IIDB, and occasionally elsewhere, we've all seen Goliath get into fights with people over what, to the casual observer, looks like Pretty Much Nothing.

Why?

It's not that he's stupid. Read his papers sometime; this is not a stupid man, nor a not-smart man. He's damn smart.

It's not that he's a jerk. Lots of us are jerks. Hell, this forum could have the subtitle "we're all jerks, welcome aboard".

It's not that he disagrees with people; most of his positions are positions shared by other people.

I think it comes down to communications styles; in particular, as he will gladly tell you, he's trying to use language without connotations.

I believe this endeavor to be ultimately futile; outside of extremely technical fields, language depends on connotations, and the use of connotations is fundamental to effective communication. Perhaps more importantly, it is beyond the capacity of most people to entirely eliminate the emotional impact of connotations from their interpretation of text; no matter how much you tell them that the connotations don't matter, the connotations are in fact part of the message.

However...

It seems to me that, whether or not Goliath can be convinced to study the way in which connotations guide peoples' understanding of his writing, the rest of us could certainly make a stronger effort to interpret his writing as he tells us it is intended.

At worst, it's an interesting experience, and possibly a useful skill. At best, it's a way to make welcome someone who has had a hell of a time finding an online community he could work with.

Who's with me?

[lisarea]

Um, I'm not against Goliath.

In fact, I'll confess that I am often confounded by human interaction sometimes myself. I know THAT some people I like and respect are mad at him, but I honestly don't know why. That's not to say the reason might not be perfectly valid. I just lack an ability to pick up on subtleties sometimes.

So all I'm saying is that while I do not doubt that people have some reason to be offended at him or mad at him, and while I'm not judging their conclusions, I like Goliath. I think he's charming and funny and brilliant, and cute as a button to boot.

[Farren]

Well I just kinda made peace with Goliath because I actually like him and get pissed off at him when he pisses people off and forces me into the uncomfortable position of having to argue with him.

I also think this thread is a bad idea because if I, personally were the subject, I'd feel like someone were scraping a razor across a raw nerve right now. Lets rather let it die.

Heaven knows I've felt had an surprisingly sensitive reaction to what I know are innocuous and largely affectionate comments about my loquacity recently. I can only imagine how crappy it would be reading entire threads about that as the central topic...

[seebs]

Well, yeah.

Honestly, I think he's really cool, too. There's some kind of personality quirk that's hovering just outside of where I could name it or put my finger on it, which I think is pretty obnoxious, and is probably contributing a lot to the long nasty flame wars he seems to end up in, but... I dunno. If the guy were within a couple hundred miles of me, I'd want to take him out for beers. He seems like he'd be a lot of fun to talk to.

[HelenM]

Seebs,

I'm sure you mean well but this thread strikes me as patronizing and it makes me very uncomfortable.

I don't come here to speculate about the personalities of any other posters or to have mine speculated about.

And, for what it's worth, I try to interpret everyone else's posts as best I can, without distinction.

Helen

[livius drusus]

I agree with Helen and Farren. Good intentions, bad timing and bad execution.

[seebs]

The execution is definitely sucking, but I'm not sure how to fix it.

The basic question here is why we have multiple flame wars involving a guy that, so far as I can tell, most of us like?

[livius drusus]

Change the title, for one thing. Stop bumping it for another. Your question is not going to be answered without invasive speculation on people's manner or communication style or topic choices or whatever. Simply stated, there is no fixing this thread.

Edit: Oh hey wow, that was fast. ;) Much better title. Much. Maybe there is hope after all.

[HelenM]

The execution is definitely sucking, but I'm not sure how to fix it.

With all due respect for your good intent, what bothers me is the way you set up two groups: "us" and "Goliath".

I find the exclusivity inherent in defining "us" as "everyone except Goliath" very distasteful.

Helen

[seebs]

The execution is definitely sucking, but I'm not sure how to fix it.

With all due respect for your good intent, what bothers me is the way you set up two groups: "us" and "Goliath".

I find the exclusivity inherent in defining "us" as "everyone except Goliath" very distasteful.

Good point.

And, come to think of it, there isn't much of an "us", as the other ongoing wars have eloquently shown.

So...

I dunno. I guess I really want to figure out what it is that makes Goliath feel (perhaps justly) that he's being ganged up on, and if it's something other people here are doing, then those other people should stop it. And if it's something he's doing, he should stop it. If, as is most likely the case, it is an interaction of different styles, or something else suitably abstract, then it merits a little consideration, because right now, we're seeing bad feelings all around.

As my wife's first husband used to say, "a lack of communication is never one party's fault."

[Goliath]

Ummm.....well...uh...

Let's see, here. I don't want to put off a response to this thread for too much longer.

So, I'll just blurt it out: I have literally no idea how to respond to this thread.

[Ronin]

I say we give him a toast and drink loads of intoxicants to his honor.

Then again, I usually say that.

[Goliath]

I say we give him a toast and drink loads of intoxicants to his honor.

Then again, I usually say that.

LOL...I'd join ya, but I have to teach at 8:00 in the morning.

And I still have a shitload of grading to do between now and then... :(

[seebs]

Ummm.....well...uh...

Let's see, here. I don't want to put off a response to this thread for too much longer.

So, I'll just blurt it out: I have literally no idea how to respond to this thread.

Well, hey, I'm still not sure what I was doing.

I guess... Underneath all my analysis and everything else, it comes down to this:

Goliath, you are a decent guy. And it frustrates me endlessly to see the threads where you get bogged down in weird little twisty flame wars with people who obviously agree with me.

And I don't know WHAT to do, but I figure, something is better than nothing.

The point, I guess, is to let you know that it matters. That you are not the only person who hates it. That you are not the only person who would like it better if these problems didn't happen.

What can we do? I dunno. But maybe we can do SOMETHING.

If nothing else, we can make sure that you have a statement to take at face value, as meaning what it says and nothing else: We like you. At least, I do. You are respected, you are taken seriously, and you are liked.

If nothing else, perhaps that will help put all the conflicts in their proper perspective.

[Goliath]

Well, thank you for starting the topic then, seebs.

However, I have nothing to add for tonight because I'm too emotionally drained to carry this conversation on (and that was probably why I really didn't know how to respond to this thread).

I still have a shitload of algebra homeworks to grade tonight, and I have to teach in about 12 hours and 40 minutes, so I'm going to take my leave of this board for tonight.

I'll be back tomorrow night for the Presedential debates...and I suspect I'll be rip-roaring drunk.

[seebs]

If there is a more eloquent response to Presidential debates than being very drunk, I am not aware of it.

[Roland98]

I've watched these little mini-flamefests pop up both here and at II as well, and haven't known what to do about them either. Granted, I think sometimes Goliath's responses to them do make things worse, but it's often not what he really says that makes things go 'round and 'round; it's just that he's usually fairly curt with his responses, which in this communication mode can get misconstrued for pissed off, I think. And then it just takes on a life of its own. :(

If nothing else, we can make sure that you have a statement to take at face value, as meaning what it says and nothing else: We like you. At least, I do. You are respected, you are taken seriously, and you are liked.

Seconded.

:kisscheek: :glomp2:

[xorbie]

I second the "this thread is more than slightly akward" motion.

[Ronin]

Think that's bad?

I'm reading it in my boxer-briefs.

[HelenM]

Think that's bad?

I'm reading it in my boxer-briefs.

Ummm...about the awkward thread in your boxer-briefs...a pair of scissors should take care of that. :D (The thread, I mean :eek: )

Helen

[Ronin]

I usually just pull on it.

[Beth]

I usually just pull on it.Oh, do tell!

[Ronin]

Well...I pull it out as far as I can and then grab it firmly.

Then I stretch it out and yank on it for a bit until I can get it to come.

After that, I just take whatever comes out and I throw it away.

:cool:

[HelenM]

Well...I pull it out as far as I can and then grab it firmly.

Then I stretch it out and yank on it for a bit until I can get it to come.

After that, I just take whatever comes out and I throw it away.

:cool:

That's an interesting answer to "Goliath appreciation; how best to show it?"

Helen

[livius drusus]

:mock:

[Ronin]

That's an interesting answer to "Goliath appreciation; how best to show it?"

Helen

Just being neighborly.

:super:

[Goliath]

Awwf.uckk..i'mssorosryryyf for being such a cockhead...i'm soufcking sor ry for not inly being suchsad ick bu also for beigndrdrunk....

wehheeeeeeee

[livius drusus]

:rofl: Get to the Arcade right now, Goliath. It's J20 time for you.

[Goliath]

:rofl: Get to the Arcade right now, Goliath. It's J20 time for you.


hahhahahHHH1! FUCKIG WON IT!!! HAHA!!!!!YAYYYY!!
wonitinr eal life!!!

[Goliath]

wonitin thread athat i accdirinally startied in PD orwhteaver tefuck it'scalled here..forgotoo
fuck, used the idbla cronym...sorry...fuck, i wsihi couuld forgett hat place.....


whishic ould spelllt ooo...ahfuckit

[Goliath]

fuck..iican do real life beatthaer than the 2ndr oudn of j200p1!!

[Adora]

Leave the guy alone. If we supposedly all like him, then what does it matter how many flamewars he gets into? Personally, I find them very entertaining and wonderful additions to generally boring forums.

Goliath- you are tre cool. Don't ever change. If other people can't handle your awesomeness, fuck em.

And yeah, this thread is stupid and patronising. I could sit here and say certain things about certain forum members here, including myself, in nicer fluffier words and "try to deal with the issues" pretending that I really do have everyone's best interest & the forum at heart *snort* but it would still be patronising and stupid and fucking lame trying to homogenise everyone into good little Smurfs. It's the quirks that lead to conflict that make people - and life, and the internet - interesting.