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View Full Version : Fate and Hollywood


Adora
10-13-2004, 12:26 PM
Okay... so I was sitting in my writing lecture today and the fellow who was giving it mentioned the well-accepted fact tht most Hollywood films are plots with characters tacked on as window dressing. They're there to be pulled along by the events in the story, hopeless against its power.

So my mind instantly jumped to the other entertaining art-form where we see this same type; Greek tragedies.

Now, I'm not looking to start another high-art/low-art wank war on the forum, as we've already had a few of those and are still trying to mop up the spooge.

I'm mostly just wondering if anyone here understands what I'm on about. My mind (don't blame me, I just work here) seemed to make a connection between the powerful archetype narratives that come up time and time again in Hollywood and the constant hold that Fate and Destiny had on the players in the ancient Dramas.

For example, take something that I consider a modern-day Greek tragedy- The Matrix Trilogy. Oh, don't roll your eyes. Yes you. Just think about it- tragic hero, tragic heroine, the Gods, tragic antagonist, mix with a good dose of indecipherable philosophy, add in an Oracle, and bingo! Even from the get-go when we new that Neo's name was "Thomas Anderson" the possibility of tragic messianic sacrifice was just about screaming out of the screen in our faces. Sure, it had a relatively happy ending, but do you think they would have been able to sell it to the producers without one?

Or maybe it's just all that recent SF films can come up with, since all the examples I can think of seem to be that. Chronicles of Riddick, Terminator II, and of course, the new Star Wars prequels (okay, they're bad, given, but you know what I mean). Is this the case? Are the predictable narratives of modern (SF) Hollywood cinema like the Greek tragedies in the sense you can't escape the ending you know is coming? Or am I just nuts?

Seriously, if anyone can think of other movies (preferably outside the SF spectrum) that come close to my stupid theory, I shall love you forever.

Ronin
10-13-2004, 03:09 PM
Well, just off the top of my head, the archetype you mention is found in the Die Hard and Lethal Weapon series. Then again, I don't get out to movies much.

How about Finding Nemo?!

Have you ever read anything by Joseph Campbell?

If not, I think "The Hero With A Thousand Faces" might be something for you to take a look at.

livius drusus
10-13-2004, 03:48 PM
How about Thelma and Louise? It's not 100% dead-on, but in terms of inexorable movement, archetypal characters, even the completely understandable nature of the offense against the gods/law/morality which drives the subsequent narrative is quite reminiscent of Antigone.

beyelzu
10-13-2004, 07:03 PM
why am I the first person to mention

braveheart??


you got your archetypes, a tragic hero, and a bad ending for him

Adora
10-13-2004, 11:36 PM
Have you ever read anything by Joseph Campbell?

Unfortunately, yes. *heads the wall* Made me want to hurt small things.

I wasn't necessarily refering to just archetypes, monomyths and such, merely the way the characters relate to the plot in the same way the players related to Fate. But yeah, Die Hard is a good example.

Ronin
10-14-2004, 12:56 AM
Seriously, if anyone can think of other movies (preferably outside the SF spectrum) that come close to my stupid theory, I shall love you forever.

But yeah, Die Hard is a good example.

http://www.blackmaxpc.com/avatarsmiles/avatars/gallery/Cartoons/look.gif

...well, shucks.

godfry n. glad
10-14-2004, 02:08 AM
Seriously, if anyone can think of other movies (preferably outside the SF spectrum) that come close to my stupid theory, I shall love you forever.

But yeah, Die Hard is a good example.

http://www.blackmaxpc.com/avatarsmiles/avatars/gallery/Cartoons/look.gif

...well, shucks.

Hmmm...How about the Coen brother pictures? Fargo...O Brother!

godfry n. glad
10-14-2004, 02:10 AM
The Wild Bunch...or anything by Sam Peckinpah

Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid - "Who are those guys?"

Breaker Morant from your part of the globe.

...and, if you want an obvious borrowing, Woody Allen's Mighty Aphrodite is it.

godfry