Teach Crumb how to write a good OP

[Crumb]

I don't really think I am very good at starting threads. :sadcheer: Sometimes I think I have an interesting topic, but I start a thread and it goes over like a lead balloon. I am not sure why. :chin: I think it is because I am not very good at OP writing. I don't ask the right question or strike the right tone, or something. :(

So please respond to this even though the OP is lousy. What do I (or anyone else) have to do to write a successful OP that will start a fruitful thread? I am looking to improve my :ff: posting skills here people, and the skills of anyone else who needs some help.

So what do you suggest?

:popcorn:

[Dingfod]

/me sits and waits for a tidbit he can use.

[SharonDee]

Call someone out by name, especially in the thread's title. Then we can all watch the fight and be the peanut gallery at the same time. Or hey, maybe there'll be defenders. Ooh, and liv or vm will step in and appeal to our better natures or some shit.
:popcorn:


Or start another one of your polls.

[livius drusus]

Well, I don't know that I'm particularly adept -- God knows I have more unanswered threads than anybody else here, but then again, the sheer numbers would make that likely -- but I do have a basic structure.

Introduction - explain the genesis of the thread: how it occurred to you, where you read about the topic.
Why do you give a shit - explain why you give a shit.
Example/Exerpt - now is the time on Sprockets when we quote, insert images, solve equations, what have you.
Deep Thoughts -- random musings on the subject can a jumping off point for further discussion even when the specific subject doesn't garner much interest.
Questions -- make people muse on the subject whether they want to or not.

Now mind you, there are all kinds of threads where this structure would be quite simply idiotic, but it applies well enough to History, News, Art, etc.

[Leesifer]

Also, you just never know what sort of response an OP will get.

I've started a couple that have generated more responses that I imagined they ever would. You know, the "this thought just jumped into my head" or "this just happened to me" type of thing.

Personally, I love reading some of the heavier threads but am loathe to join in simply because I know I have no real debating skills in written form.

[Crumb]

That's quite a breakdown liv. I really think I follow that general form mostly.

There certainly are different types of threads and the more formal, more "dense" types follow that form more closely. Maybe I should change the question to more like the one SharonDee was answering: What can I include in an OP that will make people want to post in my threads? or maybe even better: Why do you post in some threads and not in others?

[ChuckF]

-Don't use breaks for paragraphs. They confuse many readers. Punctuation and capitalization are optional.

-Contrary to what you may have heard, spell checkers don't work, and frequently make things worse.

-Always remember: "I loose my keys every day." Not "I lose my keys every day."

-Don't try to be funny or give your own opinion.

-Be vague and rambliung enough to leave the reader wondering what exactly you're talking about. That way they'll ask for clarification and you'll get lots of replies.

[Crumb]

Ok, perhaps that wasn't the right question.

[LadyShea]

Choose a topic that pisses people off, always works for me.

[pescifish]

/me refuses to offer any suggestions since her threads, though few and far between, bomb 89.65% of the time and she avoids it like a plague.

[Legs]

Most of my threads die a quick death, :hung:

unless of course I bump it myself until liv, leesifer or some other kind soul take pity on me and post something.

(ie) invisible thread
dance thread
Legs' daily
:shrug:

I think you are being too hard on yourself Crumb, everyones threads die. If you want a thread to thrive the trick is probably to keep engaging those who responded. Like you are the host of the thread and you have to keep it going.

[Kevlar]

Create four or five user IDs and use your different "personas" to kickstart a thread when it starts to die.

[Sock Puppet]

...and we should win stuff by posting!
:milhouse:

[Sweetie]

I don't really think I am very good at starting threads. :sadcheer: Sometimes I think I have an interesting topic, but I start a thread and it goes over like a lead balloon. I am not sure why. :chin:

It happens to everyone. :shrug: The biggest reason is lack of traffic on this forum, and lack of differing opinions, and then lack of acceptance of those with differing opinions, and lack of the joy of just discussion, and pussy-footing, the ease of degeneration into personal attacks, lack of appreciation for debating/discussion tactics, lack of understand of the incompleteness of these medium for conveying intended meaning and ways of saying, and, and, and......

Hehe. I don't know what to tell you really. This is a fairly slow place and if you don't get established or have already known friends to be here for and with, there really isn't a lot going on that many are interested in. Problem is, when its the same people over and over, its the same old, same old thoughts, issues, etc., anyway.

I think it is because I am not very good at OP writing. I don't ask the right question or strike the right tone, or something. :(

So please respond to this even though the OP is lousy. What do I (or anyone else) have to do to write a successful OP that will start a fruitful thread? I am looking to improve my :ff: posting skills here people, and the skills of anyone else who needs some help.

So what do you suggest?

I suggest that your OPs are fine, it might be the expectations that are the problem. From my point of view I would say firstly, don't expect much discussion on your smilie voting threads, so don't include those when you consider that some of the threads you start die too quickly. Not that there's anything wrong with them, they're cool and I'm glad you do them, there's just IMHO, not alot of possible responses other than votes.

Don't expect alot of outsiders to respond when the already established clique has responded and oftentimes in a, "we understand each other, sometimes use inside jokes" kinda way and particularily when they would add a :rolleyes: for non-conformance. Don't expect much from threads that require some people to respond in similar humour type of way, many of us either don't share the humour, find it funny but don't belong and can't fit into the train of thought, don't find it funny or just aren't interested.

Don't expect alot of outsider interest when much of the insiders are already dissing other insiders or insulting insiders in such a way as outsiders could already be insulted by default.

For instance, if someone insults someone about breast size and intended that insult for only one person yet there's ten other women with similar breasts who the insult wasn't intended for, who the insulter didn't know had similar breasts, yet they just so happened to be insulted by default, even though it was not known how large of a range of area such an insult had managed to carry over. The use of breast size was just a handy example and meant as a hypothetical, but do you get what I mean? You can replace "breast size" with "grammatical ability", "ability with humour", "ability to articulate", "intelligence", "lack of popularity", "lack of ability to understand the one main sense of humour accepted here", "differing opinions", "non-conformity",etc., etc.

In other words, don't change your OPs, try and change the environment. :wink:

[Puck]

Just keep trying, some will float. When they do, look for what worked in getting people's interest.

Don't lose hope. :tongue: @ Chuck

[Joshua Adams]

You don't really need OP content so much as sexual innuendo in the title.

[Leesifer]

nm

[Legs]

Love you Lees, :squeezle:

[Sweetie]

nm


Please do not erase the fact that you just told me to take my gripes elsewhere and that you just told me that I was a shitbag unnecessarily, completely unprovoked.

I'm sorry Leesifer, but Crumb doesn't think I'm a shitbag. I like Crumb, me and Crumb get along, we chat, I'd personally love an external friendship with him.

Some people recognize that some of you are total asses to me especially, and to others retrospectively. Crumb is not an ass to me.

Do I have your permission to continue a friendship and respectful discourse utilizing valid points which you have just managed to quite eloquently prove, with Crumb here or?

[ChuckF]

hehehe...shitbag...that's a good one.

[Leesifer]

Crumb, I'm sorry. I did try to edit my post before my insults to Sweetie were read.

I was too slow.

[Sweetie]

Please continue to prove me right.

I'm sure there's a thought out there somewhere that would go:

The fool is a testament to his own folly.

If not, then I have officially coined the phrase.

[Sweetie]

Oh yeah Crumb, and if you want a thread to fly, just call me, I'll come running, I'll be your friend and oblige. :D

"Winter, spring, summer or fall.......all you have to do is caaaalll".... :leadsing:

Aw man, sorry. I just wanted to stop in and say "Hi, and how goes" to you, thought I'd help you out with this problem if I could. Ah well, better luck next time, have a good week. :shrug:

:wave:

[livius drusus]

There certainly are different types of threads and the more formal, more "dense" types follow that form more closely. Maybe I should change the question to more like the one SharonDee was answering: What can I include in an OP that will make people want to post in my threads? or maybe even better: Why do you post in some threads and not in others?

Those are hard for me to answer because I pretty much post in every thread. :blush:

There are some threads I don't post in because I feel I'd be dragging down the discourse to beginner level (like some of the math threads, for instance). Others are on a subject that doesn't interest me (like that wild 40 page nihilism thread I blame justaman for). I can't think of any specific characteristics of an OP that would lead me to post in a thread I wouldn't otherwise post in.

In the end, I say go with the Joshua Adams plan. :giggle:

[justaman]

...like that wild 40 page nihilism thread I blame justaman for...
:bowing:

[Legs]

In the end, I say go with the Joshua Adams plan. :giggle:

The more I think about it, the more I agree :hellyes:

[Joshua Adams]

Just be aware of the small royalty associated with the use thereof.

[Crumb]

One problem with trying to play the host is that I get so many replies if I have to leave the thread that i don't even know what to say. Like now. But I guess if I get this many replies my thread is going well anyway.

I understand that this is a smaller forum so more threads are destined to die prematurely and all that, and also that they have a high chance of descending into "gay-ity". (Even though that is so last month.) Although I don't think the being an outsider thing applies to me Sweetie considering I am number 3 on the post count list. :giggles:

I think there are a lot of intelligent and insightful posters there though. So usually when I try and create a thread that I want some interesting responses to, I am just trying to get a peek at some of your more interesting thoughts on a subject. I think half my problem is that I find boring topics interesting or that I want to discuss topics that I don't know enough about to have a very informed opinion on. :shrug:

But I am rambling. Thanks everyone for participating. :kiss:

[justaman]

I think there are a lot of intelligent and insightful posters there though.

:mememe:

[Crumb]

:rolleyes:

[viscousmemories]

Can you find a couple examples of threads you've started that haven't been as productive as you would've liked? Not only would it help to have case studies, if you can't easily find examples maybe your threads aren't as typically unsuccessful as you think.

[Perry]

You don't really need OP content so much as sexual innuendo in the title.

I'm going to have to try that...

[Crumb]

I could try that vm, but right now I am too lazy. :hammock:

[Legs]

oops double post

[Legs]

Can you find a couple examples of threads you've started that haven't been as productive as you would've liked?


I think he'll be able to find a couple of thousand :giggle:

[Crumb]

:(

[Legs]

:pat: I am right up there with you Crumb.

[Crumb]

:confused:

[Legs]

I have as many threads with out much response, as you do.

[justaman]

Crumb just make any thread that I can participate in and all of your problems go away. See?

[Crumb]

What kind of threads can you participate in? Discussions about purple mohawks and booze?

[justaman]

It's not a mohawk. And I participate in boobs threads as well.

[Crumb]

It's a mohawk. Isn't any thread with you in it a boob thread?

[justaman]

Ha.

Ha.

[Crumb]

:pleased: I'll take those as 'yes'es.

[pescifish]

Although I don't think the being an outsider thing applies to me Sweetie considering I am number 3 on the post count list. I agree. Which is why I wonder why she felt the need to use your thread to make another one of her tired ol' slams against this forum. Just because she doesn't drag you, her buddy, through the putrid mud of her delusional mind (yet) doesn't lessen the fact that she is doing it to this board and people you love.

[Sweetie]

One problem with trying to play the host is that I get so many replies if I have to leave the thread that i don't even know what to say. Like now. But I guess if I get this many replies my thread is going well anyway.

Yeah but Crumb, me and you have had some very interesting discussions in the past, where you knew little and I knew little yet, it was pleasurable to me to just discuss them with you. We didn't slit each other's throats in the process, you've never attacked me and fancy that, I've never felt the need to attack you back. You've never threatened me.

I understand that this is a smaller forum so more threads are destined to die prematurely and all that, and also that they have a high chance of descending into "gay-ity". (Even though that is so last month.) Although I don't think the being an outsider thing applies to me Sweetie considering I am number 3 on the post count list. :giggles:

You misunderstood why I used the term outsider, I think.

Some people think I rag on FF, I don't. When I came here, people expressed alot of controversial opinions. I was excited to be here with people I knew from CF like David Gould, Zoot and seebs so that we could have some discussions and be a little more personal in the process, while that was not possible at CF. Some people are here for discussions with fellowship on the side, or perhaps with fellowship only to fill the space in between good discussions, other people were here for fellowship with some filler occasionally with discussions. I think the majority of the members of this forum today are here for the social aspect and fellowship, that was never my primary interest. I was ill with darned near pneumonia about six weeks ago, I was sick for two weeks and I never asked for any sympathy because I don't want any, as an example, so I never said anything. I want something interesting to do to pass my time stuck at home as a mother with the hopes of meeting people who can accept people with differences and who have something to teach me and who equally desire to learn in the process.

I am comfortable offering occasional support to others and you have no idea how many random outsiders who came and went who I tried to convince to stay, that their first impressions aren't what this place is necessarily about if you feel like sifting the wheat from the chaft but they had no ties and no reason to stay, but I am not comfortable sitting here praising others nor with them praising me which is why I've never behaved in such a way as to be seeking my own glory and why I've been so willing to risk abuse.

I would say at this point that David Gould was here, seebs, Zoot when I came. Ronin, Gurdur, wade-w, and others are people I enjoyed as far as discussion partners were concerned, some of whom I still have regular contact with. FF has never been necessarily one thing or another which is why its unfair to say that I am ragging on FF, but I am ragging on the behavior of some posters for sure. Those posters however, are not the totality of FF and what FF could be.

I keep thinking we needed some fresh blood from people who had something to offer so I invited justaman, Citizen of Earth, Danhalen, a personal friend and couple others who refused to come here to try and bring something else positive to this place, all people I knew were reasonable, had something meaningful to contribute who were not prone to personal attacks who didn't end up sticking. Even recently someone was here who I didn't know who had alot of really intelligent things to say, for some reason is interested in conversing with me outside of here, but not here, though he didn't say why.

So my question is, why? One thing he said to me was that he was fairly floored that some don't recognize the emotive reasoning they are employing.

This quote fits quite well here:

"Reason is always a kind of brute force; those who appeal to the head rather than the heart, however mild and polite, are necessarily men of violence."

- G.K. Chesterton

I think there are a lot of intelligent and insightful posters there though.

Why don't these people oftentimes feel like saying intelligent and insightful things though, is my question? What isn't attracting them to do so? My thoughts are its not you that isn't attractive, nor your thoughts and its not primarily me, as much as many might like to think.

So usually when I try and create a thread that I want some interesting responses to, I am just trying to get a peek at some of your more interesting thoughts on a subject. I think half my problem is that I find boring topics interesting or that I want to discuss topics that I don't know enough about to have a very informed opinion on. :shrug:

But I am rambling. Thanks everyone for participating. :kiss:

I think that if some people speak opinions in a discussion that may not be well formed, I think others come down on them for it. I want to learn things, I want to know why people think the way they do, why they come to this or that thought, why they are prone to thinking thing as opposed to another. Its of great interest to me, but it is not acceptable to many here. Its either be right but lets not learn why we're not right in some cases.



So I mean, if you wanted a simple answer, other people have provided. If you wanted a more indepth analysis from point of view, however many might think it doesn't belong, then here's my analysis from my perspective having had personal relationships with some people who have expressed some things about this place, and having just personal correspondance with others who didn't stick, about why.

For all those who disagree, feel free to rebut any of my points in a fair, reasonable and respectable manner. For all those who wish to merely sit here attacking me, feel free to do so but you just illustrate my points, as opposed to refuting them. It serves your interest, it doesn't serve Crumb's interests or what I think would work to making this place a more positive, respectful and enjoyable place for people who don't fit into the clique, to be. This place gets a fair amount of interest, and it seems regular newbies..........the majority of which.....look around.....aren't here.

Either there is a very real problem here, or its just my imagination. Everybody is free to come to their own conclusions, take or leave my thoughts at will, but I do think these thoughts need to be spoken as uncomfortable as some of them may be.

[Beth]

Crumb, have you ever thought that you may just be a thread-killing sumbitch?;)

[justaman]

He wishes.

[Crumb]

Why would I want to kill threads?

[Sweetie]

I still haven't figured out which one of you is Lavern and which one gets to be Shirley in this a la duet. :P

[Crumb]

We're guys, so neither.

[Tanda]

One problem with trying to play the host is that I get so many replies if I have to leave the thread that i don't even know what to say. Like now.

May I suggest that you start threads that are self-sustaining? Perhaps a thread called "People you think are probably gay", or "Mullet-Mania"? This would be easier for you and the responses would be fun to read. You seem to be a funny guy. Put that to it's max usage. Threads don't need to be serious discussions in order to be "successful".

[Crumb]

I don't think threads with those titles would automatically be successful. But I was primarily refering to more serious threads with this topic. I have made silly and frivolous threads that have been successful, but I am disatisfied with the track record of my attempts at more serious topics. It may be because I don't know shit. :shrug:

[Sweetie]

It may be because I don't know shit. :shrug:

You do know shit, you know me after all, hehe.

Just kiddin', of course. :wink:

Soooo, about this that you're male stuff. I think I'm a gonna need some proof, nude pics will do. :yup:

:D

[Tanda]

I don't think threads with those titles would automatically be successful. But I was primarily refering to more serious threads with this topic. I have made silly and frivolous threads that have been successful, but I am disatisfied with the track record of my attempts at more serious topics. It may be because I don't know shit. :shrug:
I don't believe that. Perhaps you don't realize what you do know. Mind the signature, friend. :yup:

[Crumb]

Who's my?

I will not be posting nude pics. :ptht:

[viscousmemories]

:giggle:

I never even noticed that.

[Tanda]

Who's my?
Yowzer! Wish I had caught that earlier... :doh:

:woopsie:

[Crumb]

:giggles:

[Tanda]

I goofed.

It may be because I don't know shit. :shrug:

:gbear:

[Leesifer]

:ffgiggle:

[Tanda]

I was just thinking that some threads are firecrackers that start up and end fast but have tons of responses, and some are campfires that start up slow but produce powerful, if few responses.

Then you have the middle man: the flashlight, which I successfully produced today with this thread. (http://www.freethought-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7672) It was born and died all in the same hour. :sadcheer:

Back to :school:

[Sweetie]

I will not be posting nude pics. :ptht:

It would make a very good OP, a picture says a thousand words donchaknow? :glare:

Pox on you! :hmph:

[Crumb]

I'll deal with the pox.