Flowers

[Johnny Pneumatic]

What is it with flowers?: why are they given as gifts, put on graves etc.? Is there something beyond just giving the gift of transitory beauty to someone involved? Why even bother with giving transitory beauty anyway? The flowers just going to die and decay after a short time, why not give something more lasting?: a piece of fine pottery, a painting, a drawing etc.
What's the deal with putting them on graves? Are the dead believed to care that their graves are decorated by the people that do it? My mother still puts flowers on the grave of her stillborn baby that died several years before I was born. I just don't get it.

[ms_ann_thrope]

It's not about permanence, obviously. Flowers just plain make people feel good! Why, in the news just this week:

Flowers can impact emotional state

Feeling sad? Consider making your way to the nearest florist, because a recent study shows that flowers really do have power.

Jeannette Haviland-Jones, Rutgers University psychology professor and lead researcher on the study, admitted she was initially cynical about the project, assuming the study would find people simply like flowers because they associate them with happy events.

"I thought that it wasn't really a psychological phenomenon," she said. "But it turned out that nobody could be more wrong than I was."

According to the study, the simple presence of flowers has an immediate impact on a person's emotional state.

During a series of exercises used for a controlled study, Haviland-Jones and her students delivered several gift packages, one being a bouquet of flowers, to a wide range of women. Once the gifts were hand-delivered, Haviland-Jones' students would record the facial expression of each woman. The most important expression the students looked for was the Duchenne smile, often called a "genuine" smile, that results in crinkles by the eye. What the study found was shocking, she said.

"One hundred and fifty subjects later, data showed 100 percent of them had a Duchenne smile," Haviland-Jones said. "One of the few things I know that gives a 100 percent reaction is if you drop a snake on somebody, which incites 100 percent fear in people. So I thought this was amazing."

A similar study was conducted to see the effect flowers had on men. What this round of data showed, Haviland-Jones said, is that "it's every bit as true for men as it is for women."

The study's findings just reinforced what many people already believed about flower power.

"Flowers do so many things for people," said Vance Weber, co-owner of Open Air Flowers in San Luis Obispo, Calif. For instance, Weber believes that flowers help with memory.

"We get people in all the time in the spring that see and smell chrysanthemums and say, 'This reminds me of when I was a kid,' " Weber said. "They really have a tendency to trigger memory." Growing Grounds Farms in San Luis Obispo has also found that flowers have healing powers.

"Flowers are great for people," said Craig Wilson, program manager at Growing Grounds Farms. "In general, just the exposure to growing a plant or nurturing a plant is what's important."

Growing Grounds Farm, run by the nonprofit organization Transitions Mental Health Association, operates a 7-acre farm and nursery. The farm employs mentally ill adults who work on the farm as a form of therapy.

"For a lot of our folks here, it's their first opportunity to nurture a living thing," he said. "And the bloom on the plant is an added bonus."

Haviland-Jones said the lab is broadening their studies to continue discovering the marvel of flowers.

"What we're arguing now is that flowers are equivalent to the companion of an animal," she said.

She also said the team is looking into the theory that flowers have coevolved with humans.

In nature, flowers have always been able to attract pollinators, such as bees, and have evolved to make sure they continue to receive the help of pollinators by changing chemically, using colors and fragrance. What Haviland-Jones would like to prove is that flowers have now evolved to snag the attention of humans.

"Some flowers have decided to specialize in us," she said. "Their color spectrum, symmetry and their odor is meant to be attractive to us, which makes us believe that some flowers have coevolved with us as their primary pollinator. We help them with their survival, and they help us with mood maintenance."

Tips

• Increase energy with red roses: Because red has the slowest vibratory rate and longest wavelength, it stimulates adrenal glands, boosting energy.

• Enhance alertness with sunflowers: Yellow light waves stimulate the brain, making one alert, clearheaded and decisive. And because people generally associate yellow with the sun's rays and daylight, it's said to help people feel more optimistic.

• Relax with bells of Ireland: Green affects the nervous system, allowing people to breathe slowly and deeply, slowing the production of stress hormones and helping the heart relax.

• Boost confidence with irises: The color indigo stimulates the brain's pineal gland, which is the regulator of sleep patterns. Indigo also helps to free the mind of worries, fears and inhibitions.

• Get a good night's sleep with delphinium: Blue triggers the production of melatonin, a brain chemical that helps with relaxation and sleep. Blue also stimulates the thyroid gland to release thyroxin, a hormone that regulates metabolic rate.

• Prevent allergies with orange daisies: Orange strengthens the immune system and the lungs, which can ward off spring allergies. Orange also has a strong beneficial effect on the digestive system and can stimulate the sexual organs.

• Relieve stress with lilacs: Violet has a cooling effect, alleviating "hot" conditions like heat rash and sunburn, and suppressing hunger and balancing metabolism. It also stimulates the pituitary gland, the part of the brain that releases tension-fighting beta-endorphins.

Allergic to flowers?

Allergists suggest opting for orchids because they don't drop pollen. In fact, orchids are the official flower of the Asthma and Allergy Foundation of America because they are scentless and don't usually cause allergies. They may cause skin irritations, however, due to sap.

[Lauri D]

Flowers are beautiful, even if transitory :shrug: Kind of like people and almost everything else in life, I figure. They can give people pleasure if even for a short time and that's worth something IMHO, like a lot of things. Not necessarily to be compared with things that are "longer lasting" in nature.

Kind of like, I have flowers in my front and back yards that only bloom during certain months (yay for current spring :bliss: ) but the fact that they aren't year round doesn't mean I'm going to plant a cactus or Zen rock garden instead (not that those things aren't cool too ;) ) just because they are more "permanent". In a way, now that I think about it, the fact that they DON'T last forever (and are for a short season) makes me appreciate them more.

[ms_ann_thrope]

...the fact that they DON'T last forever (and are for a short season) makes me appreciate them more.Well said! :yup:

I do love cutting roses from my own garden and bringing them indoors to enjoy. They really do make me freakin' happy, but I cannot explain why; they're just amazing mood brighteners. :garden:

[Legs]

To my experience, men who say they won't buy their GFs/wives flowers (because they die) are just plain cheapskates.

I love to give flowers (just sent my Mom some) and I love to receive them too, they make me happy - and that is worth the price.

Lauri, that was a great point that they are appreciated more because they won't last. Thanks for that article, Debbie T :yup:

[Dingfod]

To my experience, men who say they won't buy their GFs/wives flowers (because they die) are just plain cheapskates.In my experience wives and girlfriends that have attitudes like this are whiney bitches that don't appreciate what they do get.

[Legs]

I've never had a hubby/bf that wouldn't give flowers... :vibes:

I am talking about coworkers who say they 'don't beleive in sending flowers because they die..."

Riiiight!

[Dingfod]

I think cut flowers are one of the biggest wastes of money there is this side of jewelry. Live potted plants and flowers are cool by me. Consumables such as fruit baskets make even more sense.

[Legs]

Cut flowers will last longer than an apple passing through your colon.

Flowers are a feast for the eyes, the nose & the heart :vibes:

Potted plants, are okay, :shrug: very practical, if not spectacular.

[Dingfod]

Pictures of flowers last longer.

[Legs]

Scented pics?

[Dingfod]

Glade air freshener.

[Legs]

Plug it in.. Plug it in :notes:

You are such a romantic, Dingfod! :laugh:

[Dingfod]

Okay, scented candles then.

[Legs]

Candles are a bigger rip off than flowers... you might as well set your money on fire.

[Dingfod]

It won't smell as nice.

[Puck]

Just buy the damned flowers. :rose2:

I think Bobby putting fertilizer on the grass out at the property so he has to mow it more often is a waste, but if it makes him happy...

[The Jesus Lawyer]

i think flowers for the dead is to keep the smell away.

guessing...

michael :)

[Dingfod]

Just buy the damned flowers. :rose2: Well, since you put it that way... NO.

I think Bobby putting fertilizer on the grass out at the property so he has to mow it more often is a waste, but if it makes him happy...You have no idea how many hours I put into determining the amount of water and fertilizer necessary to keep a lawn green but not for it to grow. After five years of home ownership in Utah, I pretty much had it perfected; the lawn stayed green (not the brilliant green the overwatering neighbors yard was, but green all over) but I only needed to mow the lawn 3 times between May and September. That was in spite of having such a small yard I could mow it in 30 minutes with a manual reel-type mower.

[Legs]

Dingfod, give me your address so I can send inland wave some flowers

[Dingfod]

She don't need no stinking flowers.

[Legs]

No, that would be the glade plug in.

Flowers are :vibes:

[Dingfod]

Wait, I think I've been thinking about flours, not flowers. Oops. Nevermind.

[Johnny Pneumatic]

i think flowers for the dead is to keep the smell away.

guessing...

michael :)

Wouldn't the six feet of ground do the job pretty well?
In any case, I'm sure corpses* several decades old have long since stopped smelling.
If anyone says anything about mummies, I'm going to call you a smart ass. :glare:


*Normal corpses. Mummies are nothing but jerked Pharaohs.

[Johnny Pneumatic]

Candles are a bigger rip off than flowers... you might as well set your money on fire.

The smell is stronger, and lasts for many many many years unless you burn it. If you burn it you get light; come on, do flowers provide illumination? As to the cost, candles are much cheaper for what you get. I bought ten pounds of paraffin wax for ten dollars yesterday. I'm not going to make candles with it, but I could. I'm going to make 'hellfire wax', which is fucking fun stuff. Ten pounds of hellfire wax would be a much nicer gift than twelve roses.

[Legs]

I bought ten pounds of paraffin wax for ten dollars yesterday


Go sniff it and tell me how you like it.

[Johnny Pneumatic]

Flowers are beautiful, even if transitory :shrug: Kind of like people and almost everything else in life, I figure. They can give people pleasure if even for a short time and that's worth something IMHO, like a lot of things. Not necessarily to be compared with things that are "longer lasting" in nature.

Kind of like, I have flowers in my front and back yards that only bloom during certain months (yay for current spring :bliss: ) but the fact that they aren't year round doesn't mean I'm going to plant a cactus or Zen rock garden instead (not that those things aren't cool too ;) ) just because they are more "permanent". In a way, now that I think about it, the fact that they DON'T last forever (and are for a short season) makes me appreciate them more.

Sure, it's worth something, but why pay for cut ones? If I had the choice between someone giving me a bag of grapes or a whole grape vine that will give me grapes year after year, well, I'd choose the grape vine. Why not give a pot of flowers, or one of those tiny fruit trees that make mini fruit?
Now if you can find some flowers out in the woods or meadow for free to cut(I can and do) then sure, go for it.

Eh, perhaps it's just one of those different strokes for different folks things. If anyone makes a crack about masturbation I'm going to cyber-smack you.

[Johnny Pneumatic]

Go sniff it and tell me how you like it.

Well, you mix scents into the wax when it's a liquid. You get it to be a liquid by warming it on the stove. I do love the scents of the various hydrocarbons. You've not lived until you've sniffed ether.

[pescifish]

Sure, it's worth something, but why pay for cut ones? If I had the choice between someone giving me a bag of grapes or a whole grape vine that will give me grapes year after year, well, I'd choose the grape vine. Why not give a pot of flowers, or one of those tiny fruit trees that make mini fruit? Do you have a place you could grow them for years after years? Sometimes a person just wants to eat a grape not make a lifetime committment.
Now if you can find some flowers out in the woods or meadow for free to cut(I can and do) then sure, go for it. Why are you so concerned about money? If you want to give a person a gift, then it's good to find out what that person wants that fits in with your budget, not impose your own tastes and attitudes. If you aren't interested in doing something that will give the person receiving the gift some sort of happiness, then why are you giving them anything in the first place?

(This, btw, is one of the sorts of lines of thinking that leads me to think you must pay some person to get something you want from them, not like you value the other person as another entity whose company you enjoy.)

Eh, perhaps it's just one of those different strokes for different folks things.Yes. When thinking about gifts, sometimes it's a good idea to stop thinking about oneself for at least a little bit.
Ten pounds of hellfire wax would be a much nicer gift than twelve roses.Hopefully some day you will be lucky enough to have someone who wants to give you a gift and it will be nice if they consider what you want -- hellfire > roses.

[Legs]

Sometimes a person just wants to eat a grape not make a lifetime committment.
Straight to the Quote Generator :laugh:

[livius drusus]

Yes. When thinking about gifts, sometimes it's a good idea to stop thinking about oneself for at least a little bit.
:bow:

[Johnny Pneumatic]

Do you have a place you could grow them for years after years? Sometimes a person just wants to eat a grape not make a lifetime committment.
Why are you so concerned about money? If you want to give a person a gift, then it's good to find out what that person wants that fits in with your budget, not impose your own tastes and attitudes. If you aren't interested in doing something that will give the person receiving the gift some sort of happiness, then why are you giving them anything in the first place?

(This, btw, is one of the sorts of lines of thinking that leads me to think you must pay some person to get something you want from them, not like you value the other person as another entity whose company you enjoy.)

Yes. When thinking about gifts, sometimes it's a good idea to stop thinking about oneself for at least a little bit.

Hopefully some day you will be lucky enough to have someone who wants to give you a gift and it will be nice if they consider what you want -- hellfire > roses.


pescifish, why? Why did you have to drag me into the topic when all I wanted to talk about was why cut flowers are given and put on graves?
Good lord, I can't start a thread or post on anything without D or somebody else dragging my personal life into it.

[ms_ann_thrope]

Good lord, I can't start a thread or post on anything without D or somebody else dragging my personal life into it.Maybe because so many of your substantive posts seem to be tinged with bitterness and anomie? It has to be coming from somewhere. Let's see: paying child support for unwanted children is unfair for men; don't swerve to avoid hitting animals on the road; what's the point behind giving flowers...

Do you see a pattern of negativity there or anything? No offense, but over and over again your posts come off sounding like someone with a very sour outlook on life. So, the personal life thing keeps coming up. I guess we're all collectively hoping that your perspective on a variety of things will change when you meet someone and start dating; in the meantime, we're giving you some "tough love" to maybe try to shake you out of what is coming across as a serious personality rut. About the only time we see anything positive or enthusiatic in your posts is when they have to do with anime, movies, or vampire fangs. :kookoo:

Please don't be disingenuous and say that "all you wanted to talk about was why cut flowers are given and put on graves." Look at the phrasing of your OP: "what's the deal;" "why even bother;" "are the dead believed to care that their graves are decorated;" "I just don't get it." Whole lotta snot-nosed petulance there IMHO. If that isn't the style of conversation you are courting, you might do well to pay more attention to the vibes you put out.

[D. Scarlatti]

JP, just admit you enjoy getting humiliated and slapped around by women. The jig is up.

[pescifish]

pescifish, why? Why did you have to drag me into the topic when all I wanted to talk about was why cut flowers are given and put on graves?
Good lord, I can't start a thread or post on anything without D or somebody else dragging my personal life into it.Hey, I'm sorry, but ... it was your follow-on posts expressing your own tastes and attitudes that brought the subject around to you. In terms of topical discussion, hellfire [wax?] is not intrinsically better than cut flowers. That is only your opinion and not necessarily shared by others. I am really sorry, Johnny Pneumatic, it was your follow on comments that brought me into this topic, not a discussion of cut flowers.

Even so, your OP does bring your personal life into it since you mentioned your mother and her feelings towards the grave of your stillborn sibling. :( I guess I thought you were trying to understand and looking for ideas from other folks. I think you do sometimes bring yourself into these discussions, perhaps when you aren't meaning to, so I'm sorry I responded since that wasn't what you wanted. I do concur with ms_ann_thrope's analysis as to phrases you used and what they communicated, if that helps deconstruct the "why". :(

If you just want my attitude about cut flowers on a grave, I'd say most people who think of flowers on graves would probably like their loved one's grave to have a bed of live flowers, but that's not how cemetaries seem to work. You can't exactly leave a live potted plant on a grave and hope the dead guy is gonna care for it. So I guess if you want flowers on someone's grave, then I guess cut ones are the only option. :shrug:

Now, there's a question as to why anyone cares about graves anyways, but I can't respond to that because I sure as heck don't get it either! I'm with you on that one, Johnny P., but I do usually try to sympathize with someone if that's something that matters to them.

[D. Scarlatti]

I'm generally a mostly rational person, but I think standing over graves conjures up some pretty powerful emotions, even though the people underfoot are dead as doornails. It's not only the respect of their memories but a reminder of our own fleeting mortality.

People have all sorts of reasons for visiting and maintaining graves so it doesn't really have any relevance or even make any sense to wonder why they do it.

[The Jesus Lawyer]

i think flowers for the dead is to keep the smell away.

guessing...

michael :)
Wouldn't the six feet of ground do the job pretty well?


well i know flowers don't help when the person is in the ground, but i'm sure there was a time embalming wasn't quite what it is now (if it existed at all) and flowers would help out if you had a body lying around while people paid their last respects before the burial...

perhaps it just became tradition? again...i'm guessing, but it's not as lame a guess as you made it out to be! :P

michael :)

[Johnny Pneumatic]

Let's see: paying child support for unwanted children is unfair for men; don't swerve to avoid hitting animals on the road; what's the point behind giving flowers...

Do you see a pattern of negativity there or anything? No offense, but over and over again your posts come off sounding like someone with a very sour outlook on life. So, the personal life thing keeps coming up. I guess we're all collectively hoping that your perspective on a variety of things will change when you meet someone and start dating; in the meantime, we're giving you some "tough love" to maybe try to shake you out of what is coming across as a serious personality rut. About the only time we see anything positive or enthusiatic in your posts is when they have to do with anime, movies, or vampire fangs. :kookoo:

Please don't be disingenuous and say that "all you wanted to talk about was why cut flowers are given and put on graves." Look at the phrasing of your OP: "what's the deal;" "why even bother;" "are the dead believed to care that their graves are decorated;" "I just don't get it." Whole lotta snot-nosed petulance there IMHO. If that isn't the style of conversation you are courting, you might do well to pay more attention to the vibes you put out.

Nice cherry picking.

Not really, since I wasn't meaning to be negative with not paying for a child I don't want, it's just not fair when a woman doesn't have to. You may not wish to admit it, but it doesn't change that it's not equal.
I didn't say don't swerve, I asked "why bother?". I wasn't meaning to be negative.
Well, I wanted to know the point.

If one assumes that the posts are meant to be negative, and one cherry picks thread topics out of the many that I've done, then sure, I could see a pattern of negativity.

This is a valid observation, however. I'm not the most cheerful person. Whoopty do. I might not have the reasons to be cheerful that you do.

Maybe it will, maybe it won't. I don't much care either way. I'm also thinking about just giving up. Half a year of really trying and still no GF. I don't need one to be happy anymore, so I'm thinking I can do without the time wasting.
How is personally attacking me supposed to get me out of a rut?

Cherry picking again. I've started threads on lots of other stuff. Those threads don't get many people posting in them, so you've likely missed them.

Maybe it is. Okay dokay.

[Legs]

A friend sent me flowers today :vibes: they cheered me up and made me feel wonderful.
http://img518.imageshack.us/img518/6651/flow14ou.jpg

Gorgeous yellow and peach roses in a vase.
http://img518.imageshack.us/img518/2596/flow23ql.jpg

Can you almost smell this one? :wriggle:
http://img518.imageshack.us/img518/1152/flow36ll.jpg

[livius drusus]

Oh wow, they're gorgeous, especially that last beauty. It's like something we'd see in one of DebbieT's signatures. :hug:

[Legs]

:vibes:

[Johnny Pneumatic]

Can you almost smell this one? :wriggle:
http://img518.imageshack.us/img518/1152/flow36ll.jpg

I have a scratch and sniff computer monitor, so I don't almost, I can smell it.

[Legs]

That's the spirit JP!

Now isn't that better than a potted cabbage? or whatever it is you wanted to send people :blink:

[Anastasia Beaverhausen]

Beautiful, Legsy!

[Dingfod]

I hoped you'd like them.





Just kidding! I hope you liked them anyway.

[Legs]

Nice try Dingfod! :laugh:

Thanks

[Corona688]

I think cut flowers are one of the biggest wastes of money there is this side of jewelry. Really? Eco-friendly and biodegradable.

My mother doesn't like getting plants as gifts unless she asked for one. As she explained it, it's like getting another pet, it's something she has to take care of.

[The Lone Ranger]

Flowers can impact emotional state

Feeling sad? Consider making your way to the nearest florist, because a recent study shows that flowers really do have power.

Jeannette Haviland-Jones, Rutgers University psychology professor and lead researcher on the study, admitted she was initially cynical about the project, assuming the study would find people simply like flowers because they associate them with happy events.

"I thought that it wasn't really a psychological phenomenon," she said. "But it turned out that nobody could be more wrong than I was."

According to the study, the simple presence of flowers has an immediate impact on a person's emotional state.


You know, judging from the information given, I think I'd be hard-pressed to think of a less well-executed study than this one.

We're taught from infancy to associate flowers with love, happiness, etc. For this "study" to be even remotely valid, they'd have had to test the reactions of people who had never before heard that receiving flowers is supposed to make you happy.


"One hundred and fifty subjects later, data showed 100 percent of them had a Duchenne smile," Haviland-Jones said. "One of the few things I know that gives a 100 percent reaction is if you drop a snake on somebody, which incites 100 percent fear in people. So I thought this was amazing."
Not everyone reacts with fear when you drop a snake on them unexpectedly, as I can personally attest. Though there's considerable evidence that people have an innate fascination for snakes, fear of snakes is learned, as has been demonstrated repeatedly. Young children who've never been taught to fear snakes don't fear them.


"Flowers do so many things for people," said Vance Weber, co-owner of Open Air Flowers in San Luis Obispo, Calif. For instance, Weber believes that flowers help with memory.

"We get people in all the time in the spring that see and smell chrysanthemums and say, 'This reminds me of when I was a kid,' " Weber said. "They really have a tendency to trigger memory."
The sense of smell is closely associated to memory -- this has been known for a very long time. There's even a name for it, the "Proust effect." Smells associated with specific memories can trigger those memories more effectively than can sights or sounds associated with those memories.

There are direct neural pathways from the olfactory bulbs to the hypothalamus of the brain (which is important in memory storage). This may help explain why the sense of smell is so much better at triggering memories than are the other senses. There's no reason to think that it has anything to do with flowers per se, however.


Tips

• Increase energy with red roses: Because red has the slowest vibratory rate and longest wavelength, it stimulates adrenal glands, boosting energy.
Uh huh.
Actually, people placed into rooms with red lighting often show an increased level of physiological stress, which includes increased adrenal activity. (Increased secretion of adrenaline is a stress response -- hardly something you'd want to occur, I should think.)

It has been speculated that since virtually all primates are diurnal and that since sunlight reddens perceptibly at sunset, just before darkness sets in -- and because the darkness often concealed lots of hungry predators -- that we may have an "instinctive" tendency to become stressed under red light.

The stuff about "slowest vibratory rate and longest wavelength" somehow stimulating the adrenal glands (which are located deep within the body cavity, where no light penetrates) is so much bovine excrement.


• Boost confidence with irises: The color indigo stimulates the brain's pineal gland, which is the regulator of sleep patterns. Indigo also helps to free the mind of worries, fears and inhibitions.
Strangely enough, I can't seem to find any scientific studies which make this claim -- though a quick online search yielded lots of websites that were trying to convince me to buy flowers for this reason. Odd, that.

• Get a good night's sleep with delphinium: Blue triggers the production of melatonin, a brain chemical that helps with relaxation and sleep. Blue also stimulates the thyroid gland to release thyroxin, a hormone that regulates metabolic rate.
To the extent that there's any truth to this, it's exactly backwards. Melatonin levels change during the course of the day and are associated with arousal level. As melatonin levels increase, you tend to become drowsy. Bright light suppresses melatonin production, which is why most people find it difficult to sleep during the daytime, unless they darken their bedrooms.

Short-wavelength light (i.e. blue light) is the most effective part of the spectrum when it comes to suppression of melatonin production. So, if anything, exposing yourself to blue light (bright blue light -- not looking at some blue flowers) would tend to make you less sleepy and relaxed, not more.

• Prevent allergies with orange daisies: Orange strengthens the immune system and the lungs, which can ward off spring allergies. Orange also has a strong beneficial effect on the digestive system and can stimulate the sexual organs.

• Relieve stress with lilacs: Violet has a cooling effect, alleviating "hot" conditions like heat rash and sunburn, and suppressing hunger and balancing metabolism. It also stimulates the pituitary gland, the part of the brain that releases tension-fighting beta-endorphins.
Oddly, a quick search of a medical/physiological database produced no evidence that exposure to orange light in any way strengthens the immune system or the lungs. Nor could I locate any studies which showed that exposure to violet light has any effect on heat rash, sunburn, or hunger.

I did find the claims repeated quite often by various "alternative medicine" sites trying to sell me stuff, however. Hmm.


In fact, orchids are the official flower of the Asthma and Allergy Foundation of America because they are scentless and don't usually cause allergies. They may cause skin irritations, however, due to sap.
I don't know whether or not "orchids" (of which there are over 25 thousand species) are the official flower of the Asthma and Allergy Foundation of America, but by no means are all (or most, so far as I'm aware) orchids scentless. There are plenty of orchids that have very potent scents indeed. (The Vanilla Plant is an orchid, and it's not coincidental that it was named Vanilla fragrans.)



i think flowers for the dead is to keep the smell away.

Actually, I've read claims that the tradition of having lots of (fragrant) flowers at funerals originated for just that reason. In the days before embalming, the flowers would have helped disguise the odor of decaying flesh.





The biologist E. O. Wilson has proposed what he calls the "Biophilia Hypothesis," which may help to explain why most humans seem to find flowers attractive. ("Biophilia" literally means "love of living things.")

He points out that we evolved in a world with plants, birds, flowers, etc., and he suggests that we "instinctively" feel more comfortable when there are plants (including flowers) and animals nearby. (Exposure to the color green does seem to have a calming effect on most people.)

This, he claims, may help to explain why we're drawn to keep animals as pets, why we like to have lawns in front of our houses instead of concrete, why we like to have plants in our homes, why we like flowers, and so forth.

It's an interesting idea.

Cheers,

Michael

[Puck]

I got roses for Mother's Day! I am awash in roses right now. Legs, they are as lovely as yours! Aren't we a couple of lucky women?

Thalia (Daughter) sent them to me, and there was a mix-up on the delivery timing, so they ended up sending a second bunch! I have 3 dozen lovely roses in the house! and damn if they don't make me grin my silly head off.

If I am worth roses, then I am indeed worth alot. Fuck all you poo-poo guys with your tight wad attitudes. I got flowers, and although I wouldn't want her to spend that money each year, that I got them was a real bright spot in my life.

I don't care if they will die. That's kinda the point, I think. I am worthy of something so fleeting and lovely, that someone would spend that money on the brief moment of joy for my sake. Wow.

[Legs]

:vibes: absolutely, I agree with all your sentiments :yup:

[Johnny Pneumatic]

Fuck all you poo-poo guys with your tight wad attitudes. I got flowers, and although I wouldn't want her to spend that money each year, that I got them was a real bright spot in my life.

I don't care if they will die. That's kinda the point, I think. I am worthy of something so fleeting and lovely, that someone would spend that money on the brief moment of joy for my sake. Wow.


And this, ladies and gentleman, is why there aren't that many self-made uber rich women. :P
Yes, I'm only kidding, you humorless PC Nazis out there in cyberspace.

[ms_ann_thrope]

:vibes: absolutely, I agree with all your sentiments :yup::yeahthat:

[Johnny Pneumatic]

Really? Eco-friendly and biodegradable.

My mother doesn't like getting plants as gifts unless she asked for one. As she explained it, it's like getting another pet, it's something she has to take care of.


The same could be said of a puppy* injected with a time released poison/ hypercalorie injection that will kill it within a few weeks, but until it does will feed it. You don't really have to take care of the puppy, 'cause like cut flowers it's just going to die no matter what you do. While it lasts though, what joy it will bring.


*Man, this is sick. I need to go wash myself for thinking of such a horrible thing.

[ms_ann_thrope]

The same could be said of a puppy* injected with a time released poison/ hypercalorie injection that will kill it within a few weeks, but until it does will feed it. You don't really have to take care of the puppy, 'cause like cut flowers it's just going to die no matter what you do. While it lasts though, what joy it will bring.


*Man, this is sick. I need to go wash myself for thinking of such a horrible thing.:eww: Dood... put down the flaming wax and the knives and go smell some roses. NOW!!!

[Corona688]

The same could be said of a puppy* injected with a time released poison/ hypercalorie injection that will kill it within a few weeks, but until it does will feed it. You don't really have to take care of the puppy, 'cause like cut flowers it's just going to die no matter what you do. While it lasts though, what joy it will bring. Non sequitor. Flowers die, whether you cut them or not. Puppies don't have to die as soon. Puppies grow up. Flowers are grown up, as far as that goes for a flower. Flowers are natural, that retarded death-injected puppy thing is anything but.

In the end, everything dies, eventually. Even if you get a normal, non-death-injected puppy, you'll see it die eventually, unless you go first. We don't death-inject puppies because humans seem to value prolonging life, but for a flower, it's already in it's prime, and has nothing left to do but seed then rot. Maybye your beef is not with humanity, but nature itself?

[Legs]

Flowers are natural, that retarded death-injected puppy thing is anything but.


One for the quote generator :laugh:

[Johnny Pneumatic]

Non sequitor. Flowers die, whether you cut them or not. Puppies don't have to die as soon. Puppies grow up. Flowers are grown up, as far as that goes for a flower. Flowers are natural, that retarded death-injected puppy thing is anything but.

In the end, everything dies, eventually. Even if you get a normal, non-death-injected puppy, you'll see it die eventually, unless you go first. Maybye your beef is not with humanity, but nature itself?

Ok, sorry.
Yes, but the cuteness and fun of a puppy goes away somewhat when they grow up. This is not to say that dogs aren't fun, but as fun as a puppy? Or a cat as fun as a kitten? So even though they don't undergo a biological death, it is, bear with me, a personality death.
So what if the death-injected puppy isn't natural? Does natural equal good while unnatural doesn't? Unless so, why mention that the puppy isn't natural? Are cut flowers natural?

True.
True.
Probably not.

[Johnny Pneumatic]

One for the quote generator :laugh:

Is the MO to add quotes to the generator that on first glance look like they hand me my ass or something?

[Corona688]

Yes, but the cuteness and fun of a puppy goes away somewhat when they grow up. This is not to say that dogs aren't fun, but as fun as a puppy? Or a cat as fun as a kitten? So even though they don't undergo a biological death, it is, bear with me, a personality death. Quite debatable, and so subjective I see little point in debating it. I find kittens dull, for instance. I certainly won't accept your premise as a given.So what if the death-injected puppy isn't natural? Does natural equal good while unnatural doesn't? [edit] OK, so I didn't explain this earlier, but I thought I did.

Humans seem to find value in prolonging life. I'll also add to that, reducing suffering. These are human things, which we sometimes even take too far, and sometimes conflict with each other. If you're looking for a Great Grand Reason, you're not going to get one from me.

The bottom line in the difference between puppies and flowers, though, is: Flowers can't suffer.
The plant doesn't care if you take a flower.
You're not even hurting the plant. So cutting a flower conflicts with neither of those values. Death-injecting a puppy conflicts with both.

Unless so, why mention that the puppy isn't natural? Are cut flowers natural? The difference between a cut flower and a flower on the plant, is mostly just where it is. It's not going to live long and prosper no matter what you do -- it's a seeding body, something the plant generates then discards, not an organism. My point in the "natural" bit is that if we were so inclined to try to make a flower live and grow forever, it is doubtful whether we'd succeed, and if we did, doubtful whether it'd be a flower anymore. A flower is what it is. A death-injected puppy is what you've made it.

In conclusion, if flowers were like puppies, I would advocate a different treatment of flowers, and if puppies were like flowers, people might treat puppies differently. But flowers aren't puppies, and puppies aren't flowers! Your metaphor simply doesn't make sense.

[Plant Woman]

All right, who is dissin' the flowers?

Don't you know it's the plant's way of assuring propagation of its kind? I am not so sure evolution hasn't played a part in humans carrying out the spread of plant life. The prettier the flower, the more apt the human will plant one of its seeds, and here all this time you thought the flowers were made to attract pollinators.

See? It's quite a natural symbiotic relationship between humans and flowers.

Quit dissin' the flowers, man. There's an important thing going on here. One human gives another a flower, the reciever gives a squee of delight, plant people plant more flowers and squee with delight as the money comes in. Plant sits all smug and self-rightous as they watch humans carry out the reproductive tasks and if it could it would squee in de light.

[Johnny Pneumatic]

Quite debatable, and so subjective I see little point in debating it. I find kittens dull, for instance. I certainly won't accept your premise as a given.
As explained, humans seem to find value in prolonging life. I'll also add to that, reducing suffering. These are human things, which we sometimes even take too far, and sometimes conflict with each other. If you're looking for a Great Grand Reason, you're not going to get one from me.

The bottom line in the difference between puppies and flowers, though, is: Flowers can't suffer.
The plant doesn't care if you take a flower.
You're not even hurting the plant. So cutting a flower conflicts with neither of those values. Death-injecting a puppy conflicts with both.

Unless so, why mention that the puppy isn't natural? Are cut flowers natural? The difference between a cut flower and a flower on the plant, is mostly just where it is. It's not going to live long and prosper no matter what you do -- it's a seeding body, something the plant generates then discards, not an organism. My point in the "natural" bit is that if we were so inclined to try to make a flower live and grow forever, it is doubtful whether we'd succeed, and if we did, doubtful whether it'd be a flower anymore. A flower is what it is. A death-injected puppy is what you've made it.

In conclusion, if flowers were like puppies, I would advocate a different treatment of flowers, and if puppies were like flowers, people might treat puppies differently. But flowers aren't puppies, and puppies aren't flowers! Your metaphor simply doesn't make sense.

Ok, I could go on here, but it'd be wasting time it seems.

But not the life of flowers. I notice you don't make mention of the fact that cutting the flowers shortens how long they live.

True, they can't.
True.
Wha? Not hurting the plant? You're cutting one of it's stems off! Sure, the plant will regrow a stem, not in the same place likely, but it will regrow one. Certain salamanders will grow an entire arm, leg or tail if need be if it's cut off. Lets say they were under a sedative when you cut those appendages off. They'd feel no pain then, and they'll regrow the lost parts, but you indeed have hurt(injured)them. Cutting a flower injures the plant. The plant losses water through that open wound.
You assume the death injected puppy would feel pain(the definition of suffering) in it's dying. Lethal injections, like are used in prisons, don't hurt one bit.

Why? Flowers are but modified leaves. Figure out how to keep cells repairing themselves instead of going into cellular senescence and find a way to turn off the chemical triggers that tell flowers to die when they're not fertilized and they'd last forever. Would these fairly small genetic changes made a flower not a flower?
A cut flower is what you've made it. If it hadn't have been cut it would either have produced a seed or died on the plant.

[Corona688]

Don't you know it's the plant's way of assuring propagation of its kind? I am not so sure evolution hasn't played a part in humans carrying out the spread of plant life. The prettier the flower, the more apt the human will plant one of its seeds, and here all this time you thought the flowers were made to attract pollinators. For fruit-bearing flowers it gets wackier. Hot peppers contains a biochemical defense for repelling mammals, who chew up and destroy it's seeds, but doesn't repel birds, who will spread the seeds since they don't chew. Some humans, mammals, decided they liked the sensation of the plant's biochemical defense, so ate it despite all of nature's efforts to keep us away, and spread it's seeds.

[Plant Woman]

Cutting a flower injures the plant.

Cutting a flower does not injure a plant. In fact, deadheading a flower before it goes to seed, helps save energy for the plant. It takes a lot to put energy into developing fruit and seeds.

[Corona688]

Ok, I could go on here, but it'd be wasting time it seems. I agree, for different reasons.But not the life of flowers. I notice you don't make mention of the fact that cutting the flowers shortens how long they live. "live"? A flower is not an organism. At best you could make it grow a whole new plant, but it is not a whole plant. Again, you're not making sense.Wha? Not hurting the plant? You're cutting one of it's stems off! Sure, the plant will regrow a stem, not in the same place likely, but it will regrow one. And there you go.Certain salamanders will grow an entire arm, leg or tail if need be if it's cut off. Lets say they were under a sedative when you cut those appendages off. They'd feel no pain then, and they'll regrow the lost parts, but you indeed have hurt(injured)them. You have injured them, since the regrown tail is vastly inferior to the one they lost. If that was not the case, however, I would agree that, yes, you had not hurt them.

Another example is an ornamental animal you may have heard of -- sea monkeys. They live a tiny short while, then die.Cutting a flower injures the plant. The plant losses water through that open wound. Whoop de doo. Ask the plant if it cares. Does it? Watch to see if cutting the flower leaves the plant crippled. Does it? Plants are a lot more malleable and decentralized than animals. This isn't even apples and oranges, this is apples and puppies...You assume the death injected puppy would feel pain(the definition of suffering) in it's dying. Lethal injections, like are used in prisons, don't hurt one bit. It's hard to cloak the pain of, well, dying unless it is very, very quick. We're talking 5-second puppy here. But don't forget the other value most humans have, of prolonging life.Why? Flowers are but modified leaves. Figure out how to keep cells repairing themselves instead of going into cellular senescence and find a way to turn off the chemical triggers that tell flowers to die when they're not fertilized and they'd last forever. Would these fairly small genetic changes made a flower not a flower? Yes, the same way that hair made of living cells wouldn't be hair as we know it. Not that flowers are already made of dead cells, but that saving it would be like saving hair cells from dying. They'd die anyway, and nobody really cares. I don't think it's nearly as easy as you make it sound, either. What you COULD do, is make it grow a whole new plant. If you hadn't cut it, it would have produced a seed or died on the plant. Both ways, it "dies". Both ways, the plant doesn't die from it. Both ways, the plant really couldn't care less...

[Dingfod]

Quit dissin' the flowers, man. There's an important thing going on here. One human gives another a flower, the reciever gives a squee of delight, plant people plant more flowers and squee with delight as the money comes in. Plant sits all smug and self-rightous as they watch humans carry out the reproductive tasks and if it could it would squee in de light.Therein lies the waste part, particularly a waste of human resources. Lazy goddamn plants should propagate themselves.

[Johnny Pneumatic]

I agree, for different reasons. A flower is not an organism. At best you could make it grow a whole new plant, but it is not a whole plant.....

Motherfucking computer! :fuming: I had a reply typed out about four or five times longer than your's was when you including my quoted text, but in my case it was mostly my own writing; so it was a fucking long reply. And what happened? My computer crashed before I hit the send button. Screw it, I'm not typing that from scratch all over again.

Fuck you, Microsoft, debug your fucking software. :angrynana:

[The Lone Ranger]

If I may be so bold, just because someone doesn't like to cut flowers doesn't necessarily mean that (s)he is either cheap or insensitive.


Personally, I find a flower on the bush or vine to be far more aesthetically pleasing than one that's cut and in a vase. I almost never give cut flowers as gifts, though I do occasionally give potted plants as gifts to people whom I know will care for and appreciate them.

Last year, I gave a dear friend silk flowers for her graduation. They were most-definitely not less expensive than "real" flowers would have been, and they had the added bonus that she will be able to take them out and enjoy them years hence as a remembrance of that special day.

I refuse to buy cut Christmas trees for a similar reason. I'd much rather have an artificial tree than watch a "live" tree slowly dying in my living room. When I have a place of my own, perhaps I'll do as my botanist friend Chris does and buy rooted trees for Christmas. Each year, he and his family pick out a nice tree, decorate it for Christmas, then, after the holidays, plant it. They have a nice little grove of fir trees behind their house, to which they add a new tree each year.


Whether or not cutting flowers harms the plant is, to some degree, a matter of opinion. For most annuals, cutting off the flower stem deprives the plant of its one and only shot at reproduction. For plants like domestic roses, deadheading can stimulate new growth, but only because the plant is forced to redirect energy away from reproduction -- which, one could argue, is the plant's entire raison d'etre.

Cutting off stems certainly makes a plant more vulnerable to infection.


Of course, plants, lacking nerves, cannot in any way feel pain. So, it's at best debatable whether something that cannot feel pain can be said to be "harmed."


Many plant species that have been "domesticated" by humans are more or less entirely dependent on humans for their survival and reproduction, and could not survive "on their own." For example, most domestic roses are so dependent upon human care for their survival and reproduction that they cannot survive for very long without human attention. Corn (Zea mays) is even more dependent upon humans, and doesn't survive in the wild.

For all practical purposes, humans "invented" domestic roses and corn (and domestic wheat, and quite a few other species that cannot survive "in the wild"), and they're totally dependent upon us for their survival and reproduction.

Of course, the vast majority of flowering-plant species would get along just fine without human intervention.


Cheers,

Michael