See ya later, alligators!

[Beth]

I just wanted to say that I won't be around for some time. I just came back in here to copy my journal.

For the most part, everyone in here is pretty cool. I think that this board has a nice group. I realized in horror just how much extremely painful and private information I posted in here and in order to defend myself against some speculations, I would have to give deeper information and I cannot. I told a few of the people a little about this, but even then, it is not the complete story.

I'm silenced and shamed and disgraced. I probably will be off all message boards for some time simply because I am just too freaking open, so if my disappearance is noted, I'm probably not dead. So don't worry.

Hope Halloween goes swell for everyone as well as the rest of the Holidays.



Beth

[wade-w]

I'm silenced and shamed and disgraced. I probably will be off all message boards for some time simply because I am just too freaking open, so if my disappearance is noted, I'm probably not dead. So don't worry.


I appreciate the notice, Beth, as I would have wondered what happened. I see no reason for you to feel shamed or disgraced. Nor do see any reason for you to leave. I hope you reconsider and stick around; the board is richer for your presence, and will be much poorer for your absence. But if that's really how you feel, then good luck to you and yours.

:hug:

[Ymir's blood]

Take care. :sadbye:

[Scotty]

It is just a little bit colder
Someone has left the door open
The morning feels chilly now that winter is coming
But the sun is still bright, the dew still fresh
Yet, the cold makes it feel somehow tarnished
The door is still open, but I start a fire anyway
It is warm next to the fire, snapping and popping
I poke and prod the blaze, sometimes looking at the door
I have enough wood for a long winter
Even with the door open

See ya Beth, the above just for you :)

-Scott

[Petra]

Silenced, shamed, and disgraced?

Beth.. :smilehug: ..please don't feel that way. I understand the feeling very well though, as I get that sometimes, too.

But always know you have friends here and try to return often. :yup:

:(

Take care, Bella. :hug:

[Socratoad]

Oh Geez Beth, this announcement leaves me feeling very very sad.
You say that speculation has left you feeling silenced, shamed and disgraced!

This truly boggles my mind because I read every last word of your journals and came to realize just what a truly wonderful person you are. I am at a loss as to how others could have come to another conclusion.

However I respect your decision dear Beth and will not badger you as to just what has made you come to this parting of the ways.

I really do care Beth, and so I wish you all the very best and in sadness bid you goodbye and hope we will meet again, either here at FF or elsewhere on the net.

You're a good man Charley Brown ... read( you're a good woman Beth) and don't you ever let anyone convince your otherwise.

[Nil Desperandum]

You may not be with me the way that I would wish, but you've touched my soul.

You are a fond memory I shall die with, Beth.

Remember -- poetry is written for such reasons.

Chris

[Goliath]

I'm sorry to see you go, Beth. I wish you the best. :sadbye:

[beyelzu]

I just wanted to say that I won't be around for some time. I just came back in here to copy my journal.

For the most part, everyone in here is pretty cool. I think that this board has a nice group. I realized in horror just how much extremely painful and private information I posted in here and in order to defend myself against some speculations, I would have to give deeper information and I cannot. I told a few of the people a little about this, but even then, it is not the complete story.

I'm silenced and shamed and disgraced. I probably will be off all message boards for some time simply because I am just too freaking open, so if my disappearance is noted, I'm probably not dead. So don't worry.

Hope Halloween goes swell for everyone as well as the rest of the Holidays.



Beth


I am sorry that you feel you have to leave, I hope you change your mind.

[LadyShea]

Shamed and disgraced? What the hell did I miss? What are you talking about Beth? Quit being silly...there isn't a reason in the world for you to leave.

[livius drusus]

I'm so sorry you're in so much pain, Beth. You have nothing but my respect, admiration and heartfelt hope that you'll be well again soon. I suspect every single person here feels much the same. Your posts and journal have been an integral part of this community. Please take care of yourself.

[viscousmemories]

I completely agree with livius, Beth. I'm very sorry you're hurting and particularly sorry if any of my comments have contributed to your unhappiness here. If you must go I hope you take care of yourself and that you come back soon or find another community more suited to what you want or need than we are.

[HelenM]

I just wanted to say that I won't be around for some time. I just came back in here to copy my journal.

For the most part, everyone in here is pretty cool. I think that this board has a nice group. I realized in horror just how much extremely painful and private information I posted in here and in order to defend myself against some speculations, I would have to give deeper information and I cannot. I told a few of the people a little about this, but even then, it is not the complete story.

I'm silenced and shamed and disgraced. I probably will be off all message boards for some time simply because I am just too freaking open, so if my disappearance is noted, I'm probably not dead. So don't worry.

Hope Halloween goes swell for everyone as well as the rest of the Holidays.

Beth

Hi Beth,

I'm sorry you posted things here which ended up causing you pain.

You're not disgraced in my eyes.

I don't want you to stay if it's best for you to go. But if you ever feel comfortable returning I will be happy to see you here again.

Helen

[Godless Dave]

I'm silenced and shamed and disgraced.

Nothing in your public (inadvertent or otherwise) entries should be a source of shame and disgrace. But I do understand about wanting to keep things private. Best of luck, and I hope to see you online again sometime.

[dave_a]

it is like others have already said, if you feel the need to go for your own reasons then I bid you a fond farewell and hope for your return. I do not, however, see any reason for you to leave on account of anything you have posted.

[Sweetie]

Oh! What an awful thing I have caused to have done. I'm actually crying, I'm so saddened.

Did I take the internet anonymous security away from you where you could speak and purge but only at the rate you could handle? I'm so sorry, Beth, truly! I know exactly what you are feeling, I've been there, places where I've said things and I haven't wanted to go back or could only go back after a break.

Maybe I'll never learn? I don't know. I expect people to be like me I think. I consider debates completely impersonal, just alot of objective critical unfeeling ideas and data. Anything bound up with that, in the way I am now, probably arised out of a defense mechanism to protect my heart, and another to purify it.

Anything else I say would be long-winded, but I just wanted to say that there are no judgements here for you that I can see. If I've threatened you it was unintentional. I understand you have alot of pain and I hope you can overcome it. When I am ashamed I either hide, or I listen to the voice inside me that says reasonably, why am I ashamed? What do I have to be ashamed of? Are people ashamed that I have said what I have said? That bothers me if they do, but that's only if they are judgemental will they do that, and then I am stigmatized by it, but then again I ask, should that bother me? My heart says yes, my mind says no. My mind says that if I can overcome then my heart will eventually come to agree, and I'll feel better about it and myself.

So, now I'm ashamed that I failed to treat you with the sensitivity that you need and deserve, though I did not know you were not like me, and that's a good thing btw, :yup: (that you're not like me, said kindof endearingly so as not to be too self=depricating) nor what it would cause in you, and too, even just the mention of what I did when I was young causes me a great deal of shame, but those things are just there, they are what they are and they were what they were. By speaking them I have no reason to be more ashamed than if I keep them in. In the end I have no reason to be ashamed at all, though feelings being what they are.

What shall I do now? I've choosen to hide as well, temporarily, though I saw this and I felt I must say something, if only to apologize profusely! I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry and then, lol, disappear back into the woodwork once again, this time for the length of time I intended with no visits to check up on the place, unfortunately. The shame, the feeling like I've done damage, and my inability to fit in are all contributing factors. :wave:

[Dingfod]

Beth?!!!???!!!???

/me wipes tear

[livius drusus]

Take care of yourself, Sweetie. I wish I knew what to do to help you feel comfortable here. Come back when you can. :deepsigh:

[Socratoad]

Ya know folks, if there's one thing that both saddens and tends to frustrate me about boards in general s its tendency to be just a little bit toooooo debate focused and less conversational focused.. Its what I call the big dick syndrome. Because of that tendency a good sensitive person seems to have left this very board perhaps permanently, and that is so very damned sad. Is the human condition such that only the thick-skinned need apply because its just a matter of time before the most vulnerable and sensitive will fall by the wayside? n Are we to become proud because we who remain know that no matter which gender we are we are genuine members of the big dick society?
I write this having just awakened, for last night I was too sad and shook up to put my grief into words. Perhaps I too, under the cold light of day must question as to whether I just might be one of those that are too sensitive to sustain my participation on any board anywhere over the long term. I really like this particular board and the people responsible for its being here, but damn it I hardly know what to think, yesterday I witnessed more than just one example of all too human nature at work on this very board, to say that I feel somewhat numbed, having witnessed needless flaming combined by needless pain-causing rhetoric is rapidly pushing me towards seeking calmer waters.

This is not the first time, by any means, that I have wondered whether I am really human at all, because although I'm not unaware of the goodness in most people, which often is capable of bringing me to tears of emotion, but quite simply the big dick syndrome itself that makes me less than proud to be considered a member of the human race. Surely we cannot claim that we attract and support the very best on this board or any other if we, and I use the term "we" very loosely, if the very format that seems to develop no matter how good the intentions of board founders, firstly discourages the most vulnerable and the most sensitive among our fellow humans. Lest I begin to sound pompous and holier than thou , let me hasten to add that I too have taken the bull by the horns, so to speak, and cut some poor bastard to ribbons, who dared to piss me off, but friends I have always felt soiled by having subjecting someone to my acid tongue. Well more than enough already, I'm rambling.

And lest anyone wonder just why the above happened ....... Its the simple awareness that somewhere in faraway (from here) Florida there is a young woman who was already hurting is hurting quite a bit more, and although I only knew this young woman for a very short time, I miss her terribly.

[livius drusus]

Socratoad, I've answered you here (http://www.freethought-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?p=17500#post17500) so as not to distract from Beth's (and now Sweetie's) goodbye.

[Farren]

Beth, I hope you realise from the responses here that any shame and disgrace you may feel doesn't correspond with any reciprocal disrepect of you by any of us here.

I've always felt your posts had a gentle, sweet ring to them and respected you even more when you bared your soul. I'm sorry to discover that it's had negative emotional repercussions for you.

If you felt afterwards like you seemed pathetic or overly self-pitying or any other negative impression please believe me that quite the reverse was true. Those of us who haven't had such misfortune in our lives are enriched by hearing the testimony of someone who has communicated in an honest and articulate manner.

Its crossed my mind that you may feel like it set you apart too much, made you an object of pity who people feel the need to step tenderly around and behave with abnormal deference to in a way that has the reverse of the intended effect. That perhaps you feel now you can't interact with us as just another online friend in a close-knit online community.

These thoughts cross my mind because a local journalist here who was raped and wrote a front page spread about it said that this is one of the reasons many women conceal such experiences.

If this is the case, I'd like to assure you that the reverse is true. By being so honest you've made me, at least, more comfortable being open and frank with you and I think the same is true of others here. It doesn't set you apart. It makes you more human, more tangible, more real. Someone who's easier to empathise with and love and respect in a medium bereft of many subtler human signals. It brings us closer to you.

I realise I could be completely off base here but if such thoughts have influenced your decision I hope you read this. Whatever your motives, I've enjoyed the Beth you've shared with us and hope life brings you solace and joy until we see you again.

Tons of love {{{{{{Beth}}}}}}

Farren

[Farren]

And Sweetie, please don't feel you have to leave out of respect for Beth. You're only reinforcing my sense of loss. Your reasons are noble, but I really hate the idea that someone has to "take the blame". I think its a whole lot more complicated than that.

{{{{Sweetie}}}}

There's still a whole lot of love for you here.

[JoeP]

({[Beth]}): it feels like everything I'm feeling's been said. I'll be sorry not to see you here

I recognise how exposed and vulnerable you can feel having said more than you feel safe with, and perhaps having it received in unexpected ways (although ({[Sweetie]}), I don't hold you to blame at all, or anyone). This is a real vulnerability: people need to share painful things, but it requires skill and even training (therapists, confessors) not only to create a perceived safe environment, but in looking after the during the process. Exposing private stuff can open up pain. A board like this builds the perceived safe environment but none of us are accredited in dealing with what may come up. I say: let us make it possible, sharing strength and support where possible and space to recover where not.

:deepsigh: I'm spouting idealistic waffle again. One of the vital ingredients is looking after ourselves. An environment like this can never be a confessional with guaranteed confidentiality, a therapist guaranteed to listen to shocking revelations without judging, or a parent who'll be there for you no matter what. To survive on any board, in any group in fact, we need the inner strength to bounce back (bounce sounds too easy; rebuild perhaps) from shocks using our own resources, back to the point where sharing with others becomes worthwhile.

joe

[Socratoad]

Sweetie, I too, wish so very much for you to return. Truth be told, I was not-so-blissfully unaware of the discussions between you and Beth, and so my defence of Beth in no way was a swipe at you, either backhand or in any other way and so like Farren and many others I really do not wish to see the loss compounded by the loss of Beth and now you Sweetie.

[godfry n. glad]

Okay... So I'm clueless. But I didn't think I was totally clueless.

But when it comes to the reasons for the exit of Beth and Sweetie, I'm at a total loss. I missed whatever set this off.

I sure hope I haven't fuelled it with any of my rude, crude, lewd and unsophisticated claptrap.

Wow... You'll both be missed.

godfry

[Beth]

This will be my last post for some time. I do not intend to visit back in here for a while, but I am not permanantly gone, I think. So I do not want anyone to feel they must write. I probably will not see it. I am thankful about what was said. You guys are nice.

This morning, a friend emailed me and asked me to look at the thread. I saw Sweetie's and Toad's post. I felt crushed at seeing Toad's and worried. I meant no harm by posting a goodbye. I only did it so there would not be some missing me thread turn up and I worry about posters who just drop off, too.

I'm angry at no one but myself. I'm the fool here. It is not Tom, or Liv, or Sweetie. Nor is it anyone else. I am soley to blame for walking away.

Farren, you are a little on it (the way I feel), but not soley. I did not hide my rape because of shame way back when I was 16. Let's just say that the reason was on the list of con's in the pro's and con's list I gave. It was not shame, but preservation for those I held dearest to me, more or less. But you were so sweet, to try to understand and you were caring and rather perceptive.

I did not post for therepy, either, or not consciously, I mean, if it were a support thread, then it would be a conscious therapy-type of post, Joe. But maybe you hit on it. Normally I have been open because in the past, both in IIDB and in POD <edited for privacy> boards, kids have Pm'ed me and I've tried to help, even if it was only to say I know. Sometimes, I called around or googled for resources to help. I just never realized how much I had revealed or that it could put put up before me like that. No one ever had before and I suppose I am very concerned it may happen again unexpected.

Memories came flooding back, in an almost ungated influx and I realized how vile my past life was. It made me wonder if my toxic life seeped onto others around and how I may have damaged other. It is true I feel pathetic, self-pitying. I now feel different; I feel stigmatized, but it is all of my own doing, I realize that.

I'm really sorry I tainted the boards, I am sorry for miscommunicating with Sweetie and getting defensive, but the conclusions she has come to in some of the following posts are so off. But I will not try to defend against them. It's over.

Anyway, I came back in here to right my wrong and to PM Sweetie to tell her I am not mad and no longer offended.

See you guys later.

... And I wanted to add that Liv is a class act.