Complaining vs. Complaining with action

[LadyShea]

What is the point of complaining about something if one has no intention of attempting to take any action to improve the issue, accept and move on, or solve the problem?

Right up front, I have no problem with venting, ranting, complaining or even a bit of whining sometimes. We all need to just let it all out at times about things....especially those that have no solution (world hunger, the war in Iraq, non treatabe diseases). I don't even mind someone who complains all the time, but varies the topic pretty often.

What I have a problem with are those people with a "pet" issue, that they constantly whine about yet refuse to even consider taking action on.

For example, 'Bob' regularly and loudly complains about Bush. He hates Bush with a passion, and all day rants and raves about the lying stupid pile of dogshit. When asked "What are you doing to get rid of him", Bob has no answer. He hasn't given any money to anyone, joined any organizations to oust Bush, maybe isn't planning on voting. When these positive actions are suggested, each is shot down with some excuse about "you can't fight City Hall" or "It won't do any good". Yes, ranting and raving to the point of a frickin' anuerysm is going to do much more good than volunteering with the Democratic party or giving money to Move On or the hundred other things you can do to make a difference.

Another example, "Mary" constantly complains about her boyfriend. He's a lazy, drug addicted, abusive, lying, cheater. What has Mary done to address his behavior? Counseling? Drug rehab? Anger management? Breaking up with him? Nope! Not a damn thing except whine to me incessantly about it! When given advice, it is dismissed due with "But he's so <cute/good in bed/nice to my kid/handy around the house/sweet when hes not throwing dishes>.

I have many other examples, especially regarding the workplace, but wanted thoughts on it first

A) Why do people voice these types of complaints at all if they don't want advice, or cant be bothered to try to resolve the issue?

B) Is it unreasonable of me to expect some kind of solution be either presented, sought, or remotely considered along with the complaints? I have been known to say something along the lines "If you aren't going to do anything remotely constructive, then quit talking. You have drained all my sympathy on this issue"

[HelenM]

What action are you taking along with your complaint about "Bob" and "Mary"? What solution do you propose? :cool:

Helen

[LadyShea]

What action are you taking along with your complaint about "Bob" and "Mary"? What solution do you propose? :cool:

Helen

As I stated, my solution is to tell them to shut up ;)

Seriously, I am looking ofr advice on the issue because I get frustrated

[Socratoad]

Very very timely LadyShea, I'm still feeling numb and quite discouraged by recent attempts to help people on the net whom I perceived to be hurting very badly and in real trouble.

I know myself rather well, and so am well aware of my long long history of reaching out to the sparrows with the broken wings, whether they be actual sparrows or the human kind. The difference between creature and humans, I have found is that I am usually very successful in helping creatures, while my sincere attempts to help my fellow humans usually ends up with me being slapped in face, metaphorically of course.

What I shall do in the future about this unhappy situation I really do not know because my hurt is so very real and my emotional state regarding recent episodes is just toooooo raw at the moment.

Incidentally another wounded creature was brought to my door yesterday, but I will speak of this on another thread because your thread is too important to risk derailment.

[Dingfod]

Got nuthin'. Seeing how I'm part of the problem, I'm shutting up now.

[Socratoad]

Got nuthin'. Seeing how I'm part of the problem, I'm shutting up now.

??

[Dingfod]

Got nuthin'. Seeing how I'm part of the problem, I'm shutting up now.

??I know what LadyShea is talking about and I'm sure knows what I'm talking about too. I haven't unloaded much of my marriage woes here, and I won't. However, I have been extremely candid with my complaints at HH. Not any more here or there, because I cannot bring myself to do anything about it right now. Enough said.

I'm sure there are other complainers in mind as well, but my own internal examination requires me to apply the more general lesson here to myself and my situation. Thank you.

[Socratoad]

warrenly, although I will not presume to speak for LadyShea, I'm quite sure your situation has nothing to do with what you are suggesting.

Shea and I have both been involved recently in trying to prevent suicides and perhaps even one murder on the "other" board, and for our sincere efforts have been kicked in the teeth.

Speaking about marriage woes, loneliness and such things are and hopefully continue to be an integral part of this board.

Methinks you are a tad sensitive at this time, as am I, but I sure as hell want to reach out to you. Your sense of humour often brightens my day.

[livius drusus]

This is a general thread in the Philo forum, warren. I think sticking to the terms Shea established in the OP would be most helpful for all participants, whether they see aspects of themselves in the OP or not.

I think people who repeatedly worry over one or two things that they don't change may feel paralyzed by circumstance or like the alternatives are worse than the problem. As for why they express that worry, well, I suppose because just on principle it needs an out, and on top of that, perhaps it's an attempt to rev up to taking the action.

[LadyShea]

*sigh* I am sorry I didn't make myself clear or made ANYONE here think I meant them at all. Just so there is no more wondering "is she talking about me", my thought process and opinion is based on historical real life encounters involving co-workers, friends and family, and I was motivated to discuss it here after two recent II threads. One is current should you wish to check it out, it is about bias against men regarding child support.

And warrenly, you vented about your problems with your wife, but you also were searching for solutions and asking for advice and did not ignore the ideas of others.

Goliath, you also, with our recent discussions, have displayed a desire to understand and/or solve whatever problems are occuring.

freemonkey's recent thread is also a good example of someone seeking solutions or coping strategies

Edited for clarity

[Dingfod]

I understood it was a general philosophical question. I saw it applying to my situation. I got nothing useful to add, I shouldn't have posted at all. Sorry.

[wade-w]

I think people who repeatedly worry over one or two things that they don't change may feel paralyzed by circumstance or like the alternatives are worse than the problem. As for why they express that worry, well, I suppose because just on principle it needs an out, and on top of that, perhaps it's an attempt to rev up to taking the action.

I think livius has nailed it here, LadyShea. Most likely in many cases people who exhibit the behavior you are describing want to act, but for whatever reason they are unable to get started (I would say paralyzed by circumstance, but liv already used that). And letting it out at least relieves some of the pressure. You might argue that they keep on about it to the point that it aggravates you, so they aren't trying to "rev up" to anything, but sometimes it takes more than a few attempts to get over the paralysis.

[wade-w]

Shea and I have both been involved recently in trying to prevent suicides and perhaps even one murder on the "other" board, and for our sincere efforts have been kicked in the teeth.


Socratoad, in all the time that you have been helping animals heal, have you never had one bite you (or try to bite you) when it was in pain and you were, out of sheer necessity, handling it? Did you take that personally?

[LadyShea]

I understood it was a general philosophical question. I saw it applying to my situation. I got nothing useful to add, I shouldn't have posted at all. Sorry.

I am glad you posted as I wanted discussion on the topic. If you found something that applied to you, then great. My hope is we all learn something, teach something, add to our general knowledge about the world and ourselves, etc. with our interactions and discussions here.

I just wanted to make sure you didn't think I was singling you, or anybody, out. In fact, if my track record speaks for itself, I do not try to hide criticisms/thoughts/opinions I have about any individual in generalized threads....I pretty much say it to them directly....and have gotten quite a bit of criticism for that in return. It's my preferred way of doing things though.

[LadyShea]

I think people who repeatedly worry over one or two things that they don't change may feel paralyzed by circumstance or like the alternatives are worse than the problem. As for why they express that worry, well, I suppose because just on principle it needs an out, and on top of that, perhaps it's an attempt to rev up to taking the action.

Hmm, I can accept this in some cases, but with many people I have encountered, it seems much more....habit-like? Like they just complain without really thinking about it....I remember one girl who didn't even have any strong emotion left about the topic of "evil men", she complained about them because that's just what she did. I am not making sense, have you ever encountered someone like I am describing?

[wade-w]

Maybe I'm just not understanding here, but that last example doesn't sound like it's in the same category as the ones in your OP. In the OP, the people are complaining about specific situations, while this last woman is complaining about a general condition. I see the two as very different; after all, what can you possibly do about "men are evil?" (Other than change your perspective, of course.)

[LadyShea]

Maybe I'm just not understanding here, but that last example doesn't sound like it's in the same category as the ones in your OP. In the OP, the people are complaining about specific situations, while this last woman is complaining about a general condition. I see the two as very different; after all, what can you possibly do about "men are evil?" (Other than change your perspective, of course.)

Yes, but in my Mary example, say she has been with that boyfriend for 5 years and those complaints about him never change? In the Bob example, he currently bitches about Bush, but he will complain about any Republican.

Just for the record, my examples are compilations of people I have known.

I guess I didn't really think it all through or make my points clear.

[Socratoad]

Shea and I have both been involved recently in trying to prevent suicides and perhaps even one murder on the "other" board, and for our sincere efforts have been kicked in the teeth.


Socratoad, in all the time that you have been helping animals heal, have you never had one bite you (or try to bite you) when it was in pain and you were, out of sheer necessity, handling it? Did you take that personally?

Yes wade I have had many bite me, and no doubt will have many more. However is it asking to much for some of my fellow humans to stop the narcissistic horseshit just long enough so that just possibly they might be able to recognize sincerity when they encounter it.

Thats all I ask :(

Frankly wade I'm burnt out. No I cannot nor will not become insensitive to the pain of others its just that I do not have the strength to help anymore

In fact methinks I may just have to quit posting for an extended period. :( :(

[wade-w]

Yes wade I have had many bite me, and no doubt will have many more. However is it asking to much for some of my fellow humans to stop the narcissistic horseshit just long enough so that just possibly they might be able to recognize sincerity when they encounter it.

Thats all I ask :(


I can see I touched a nerve. I am truly sorry if I came across as unfeeling.

I can understand how someone you are trying help lashing out at you can hurt. But if you think about it suicide is, ultimately, as narcissistic an act as there is. When someone is in enough pain to contemplate killing themselves, they are no longer truly capable of thinking about anyone else; only their own hurt matters.


Frankly wade I'm burnt out. No I cannot nor will not become insensitive to the pain of others its just that I do not have the strength to help anymore

In fact methinks I may just have to quit posting for an extended period. :( :(

Again, I understand. I hope you don't withdraw completely.

[freemonkey]

I've been thinking about this since I read the first few posts this morning. I think there are many reasons people just don't act to fix their problems. Among them:

Laziness- they want to be rescued, or to be told what to do.

Habit- like LadyShea points out. They don't know any other way of being, they identify themselves as "......whatever.....". One of the reasons it was so hard for me to quit smoking, because for so many years I was a SMOKER.

It Worked at one time - Some people may also have been rewarded for past complaining, and so they continue to try that tack. My dog is a good example, since the day she grabbed the food I droppped while making dinner, ages ago, she insists on standing by in the kitchen.

Fear- what they are complaining about is something that is known to them, while the outcome of changing is unknown.

Confusion- for fear of a better word. Sometimes, I am confused about how to do something, and don't even know how to ask for the tools and info I need to make a change.

Self worth- Many people simply do not have the positive self worth that others do. If you believe that you somehow don't deserve any better than you have, or that you're not capable of having/doing/getting better, do you just don't believe it.

My husband says "in the end, people do what they want". In the past, he's been frustrated by attempts to help people who asked for help, then shat on him. So what he means is: he'll help, until you stop helping yourself. And he'll try not to take it personally if it doesn't work out.

[LadyShea]

Thanks freemonkey for such a thorough post. I think you pointed out some very valid reasons someone might behave as I tried to describe

So what he means is: he'll help, until you stop helping yourself.

That's it! That's how I feel! Nice succint way of putting it

[viscousmemories]

Thanks freemonkey for such a thorough post. I think you pointed out some very valid reasons someone might behave as I tried to describe

So what he means is: he'll help, until you stop helping yourself.

That's it! That's how I feel! Nice succint way of putting it
So you help those who help themselves? Who are you, God? :P