Yeah, that hurt

[huntress]

In a recent letter from my grandmother, she said, "I fear what you will impart to your students ( though it may not be in their text books). The education system is full of teachers who are taking your view and it makes me shudder to think of the poor souls who will swallow you hook, line and sinker. I hope you will at least respect them enough to leave atheism out of the class room."

Here's (http://pdblack.twistedpair.net/index.php/b/2006/07/31/p170#more170) the entire conversation for those who have the stomach. (If you don't, I don't blame you.)

She seems to have me confused with conservatives who believe religion belongs in the classroom.

This is a bit of a change from "We're so proud of you, getting the teaching position," wouldn't you say? I wonder which it is: "proud" or "shuttering to think of the poor souls who will swallow me hook, line and sinker."

d

[livius drusus]

You've driven your grandmother to wanton installation of window treatments. For shame, huntress.

So hey, how about them Catholics being responsible for everything bad ever done in Christendom, huh? That Whore of Babylon will getcha every time.

[viscousmemories]

Damn. Well there was one redeeming point, anyway. Sometimes a typo makes me laugh out loud.

The Jews are still looking for the Messiah although their own profits told them that to look for.

[Petra]

Ouch, d. That bites.

Sorry you're having to put up with crazy crap like that. Write her a biting letter back. Tell her you are aware that your atheism does not belong in the classroom anymore than religion does, and that what you are teaching is ENGLISH, not witch hunting, but that you appreciate her good wishes toward you and your students, and that you are so happy that she is so proud of you as she has always been a favourite, and other guilt-inducing, passive-aggressive sarcasm. :wink:

Good luck with your family, d. And for what it's worth, I'm very proud of you. :kiss: :hug:

[huntress]

You've driven your grandmother to wanton installation of window treatments. For shame, huntress.

So hey, how about them Catholics being responsible for everything bad ever done in Christendom, huh? That Whore of Babylon will getcha every time.You made me laugh. Thanks much, sis. I needed that.

I missed the "shudder" thing. Ha.

Yeah...it's all the Catholics' fault. They aren't real Christians, y'know....

d

EDIT TO CORRECT: Doh. That's one she had right. "Shudder" as opposed to "shutter." The former pertains to trembling from fright; the latter, to window treatments.

Shame on us. ;)

EDIT FURTHER TO CORRECT MY CORRECTION: Doubledoh. I'm such an idiot sometimes. I shoulda knowed liv wasn't making a grammatical or spelling mistake....

[huntress]

Damn. Well there was one redeeming point, anyway. Sometimes a typo makes me laugh out loud.

The Jews are still looking for the Messiah although their own profits told them that to look for. Hail, Tom. Maybe I should've called this thread "Fun with homonyms." Good one. :yup:

Suddenly, I'm having trouble taking her entire, inane rant seriously. (Although I know this is something like Argument from Grammar, but still....)

d

[huntress]

Ouch, d. That bites.

Sorry you're having to put up with crazy crap like that. Write her a biting letter back. Tell her you are aware that your atheism does not belong in the classroom anymore than religion does, and that what you are teaching is ENGLISH, not witch hunting, but that you appreciate her good wishes toward you and your students, and that you are so happy that she is so proud of you as she has always been a favourite, and other guilt-inducing, passive-aggressive sarcasm. :wink:And do not think the thought did not cross my mind. However...I'm trying like hay-ell to rise above such pettiness. Besides...all of my responses to her roll off like water off a duck's back, anyhow. Wasted effort. She completely blows off my every effort at honest discussion, to eventually counter with a repeated assertion, rising like a phoenix from the ashes. (Er...yeah. That'll convert me.) Her comment about the rabbi's response to Psalm 23 is one such; she asked me something like three years ago what I made of it, and I said it was Jewish scripture, and perhaps we should consult a rabbi for meaning. This is the first indication I have had that she even read that email.

Argh. Frustrating.

Good luck with your family, d. And for what it's worth, I'm very proud of you. :kiss: :hug:Thanks! :D

d

EDITED TO ADD: Love your quote, by the way. A propos, even.

[viscousmemories]

Y'know, slow and careful reader that I am I noticed the 'shutter' misspelling too, but liv's joke went clear over my head until your response. :doh:

[huntress]

Y'know, slow and careful reader that I am I noticed the 'shutter' misspelling too, but liv's joke went clear over my head until your response. :doh:And there I was blaming it on gramma. I should be shot.

Imperfections such as this make me think, "Am I really qualified for the job?"

Then I look at the emails I receive daily from those about me and I say, Not only yeah, but hell yeah.

d

[beyelzu]

sorry d, it must suck to have family that doesnt like your atheism. i dont really know what thats like, my family the ones who are religious fear my atheism and we dont talk about religion much. but it must surely suck.

[beyelzu]

my head hearts from all the logical fallacies in your gmas reply,

damn.

[Sweetie]

I realize I'm probably going to get hit for this because I'm guilty of posting a private PM fairly recently, though the logic for me was that he was dead and I wanted to help people understand his death and I retracted out of respect, and if I was wrong, then I was wrong, so that said, I think it's shameful that you are using your Grandma as an exposure and example in public with strangers of all that's wrong with whatever.

Granted, I didn't really read the thing, and I don't want to, I'd rather have her here to defend her side, but I just simply cannot fathom talking about any member of my family in such a way whether we agreed or disagreed on anything or not. Wouldn't be caught dead, it's about as disrespectful as it gets, and I simply don't care whether or not she was disrespectful first or always will be. You are "above her" by not reducing yourself to her "pettiness" but sorry honey, your pettiness and the exposure of your grandma in this way is ten times worse. You are publicly mocking her on the internet for gawd's sake, and waiting for others to take potshots at her too, so that you feel better or justified or oh, the horror of what you have to put up with, or whatever and I assume that the original letter was private. If she thinks you are a crappy grandaughter, I can see the potential possibility for why that might be potentially true in her eyes. If she questions your judgement, go figure!

I swear to gawd, we don't even tolerate letting family members talk to my grandma disrespectfully and if an outsider is very lucky, we might tolerate one respectfully disagreeing with her. She's old for gawd's sake, no matter how ridiculous old people can be. Respecting our elders at the very least, and she maybe wouldn't say the same things the same way to other people as she would to someone in her family, nor do they know either her and where she is coming from.

I swear to gawd, even if I hated my grandmother, I would not do that to her, expose her to public ridicule. She might get some from friends who know you and read your blog, but does it need to be here? I'm so very proud of you.

[The Lone Ranger]

Actually, d's conversation with her grandmother is taking place in a public venue, as you can confirm by checking the link. She hasn't posted any private correspondances, to my knowledge.

Apparently, d's grandmother reads d's blog and comments on it. Of course, I could be mistaken, as I haven't had time to read the whole thing, but that's the impression I get.


Cheers,

Michael

[Sweetie]

Ah ok, I thought this was an email conversation, I didn't want to read it.

I still think it's rather odd that it needs to be advertised here, at the very least. HH would be not a good place either, but a better place, no? If this is indeed public, I think it would help matters for the grandmother and family in question, to be directed to the ideas posted here but either way, I can't believe the idea I get about the family in question.

I mean seriously, is it helpful to anybody for other people to applaud a grandaughter in this, or to say, yes of course we agree with you that your grandmother is an ignorant fuckwit witch, how nice for you? Assuming it's true, which I don't know enough to comment.

[huntress]

Hi, Sweetie.

Ah, where to begin? I realize I didn't post the history of my grandmother's and my correspondences here. It goes back years, and I long ago received her permission to post her emails. As so many people on this board "go back" that far with me, I didn't see the need to include the disclaimer here. That's for your first and main gripe.

Granted, I didn't really read the thing, and I don't want to, I'd rather have her here to defend her side, but I just simply cannot fathom talking about any member of my family in such a way whether we agreed or disagreed on anything or not....(etc)And that's you and your family, and it is your choice. I can assure you I've been far too respectful of my family for far too long, and have been gossiped about and sent nauseating emails like that for years from various members because I was too nice.

I've learned over a long period of time--with my family as well as with strangers--that if someone is being a complete jerk and making no sense into the bargain and insulting me, and polite or even rougher/rawer replies behind the curtain do not staunch the flow, there's nothing quite like posting the conversation on the internet for all to see for their own rudeness and presumptuousness to hit them full force. It's rather like how you never really "hear" what you wrote until you have to read it in front of a crowd; it has the same ear-opening effect.

You are publicly mocking her on the internet for gawd's sake, and waiting for others to take potshots at her too...That's one way of looking at it, I suppose. I think she mocks herself when she says or writes stupidity like that--particularly when she repeatedly fails to show enough respect for me to answer my emails or address any of my arguments. I feel no worse for posting that than I would for posting a link to a religious nutjob site, to be honest.

I swear to gawd, we don't even tolerate letting family members talk to my grandma disrespectfully and if an outsider is very lucky, we might tolerate one respectfully disagreeing with her. She's old for gawd's sake....I can't wait to get to the age when others are required to disregard my rudeness and disrespectfulness.

...no matter how ridiculous old people can be.Sweetie, I know how ridiculous people can be. I think there's no logical support for the notion that I must be respectful of another person because she was born first. That strikes me as a child's attitude toward adults that for some reason she never outgrew.

My grandmother is very lucid. Her age has nothing to do with this. If I thought for a moment that she was tripping into Alzheimer's Alley, I wouldn't bother to even reply, let alone post her BS on the internet, permission or no. But I assure you that is not the case. She's very much in her right mind, and she knows better than to treat anyone the way she's treating me, but she chooses to, anyway.

Several of the regular readers of my blog are Christians. I did not post her email so they could mock her. Having been posted publicly, her letter is open to either defense or derision, as my readers choose.

d

[livius drusus]

You made me laugh. Thanks much, sis. I needed that.

I'm glad, and thank you (and vm) for the Monty Pythonesque fun of the ETAs. We apologise for the fault in the endnotes. Those responsible for sacking those responsible have been sacked.

[Kevlar]

Ouch!

Well huntress, I feel your pain. My parents are neo-cons and I get this kind of crap all the time. Whenever someone insists that I should read the Bible, I always shoot back with "I will if you will". It seems people read this verse here, and that verse there, just enough to validate their own world-view. But they never read enough contiguous text to understand the context in which it was written.

[D. Scarlatti]

Hi, Sweetie.

Ah, where to begin?

I really admire you for engaging an obnoxious, meddling fool with such dignity, restraint, and aplomb.

Nice job with your grandmother too.

[Beth]

d,

For what it's worth, I think that you wrote a very good response to your grandmother.
I might take a look back later to see how things progress if that's ok with you. I also wanted to wish you well in your teaching position. I think that you'll have a lot to offer your students.

[Kyuss Apollo]

Y'know, slow and careful reader that I am I noticed the 'shutter' misspelling too, but liv's joke went clear over my head until your response. :doh:And there I was blaming it on gramma. I should be shot.

Imperfections such as this make me think, "Am I really qualified for the job?"


As an aside, I used to be an excellent speller before becoming a teacher. But after a few years of seeing every possible butchery of the written word...

Be glad you have a spell checker. You WILL need it :lol:

[huntress]

Whenever someone insists that I should read the Bible, I always shoot back with "I will if you will". It seems people read this verse here, and that verse there, just enough to validate their own world-view. But they never read enough contiguous text to understand the context in which it was written.:D

I will if you will. Nice.

Of course, with her and those like her, the problem goes much deeper. She perhaps has read the whole thing, but through the eyes of someone who has decided before opening it what the message is. When anyone questions her conclusions, then they (like me) are "mocking what they don't understand." Or some such drivel. Her position is completely non-falsifiable--classic Church of Christ.

I suppose I'd find my belief system impenatrable, too, if I ignored all naysayers outright--and that pretty much sums up the COC debate strategy. It's not only ignorant and rude, but bone-crushingly arrogant as well.

d

[huntress]

I might take a look back later to see how things progress if that's ok with you.Sure. To be honest, I don't know whether to expect feedback on that. It is a personal post and many people are loathe to respond to it or get involved in any way. It pretty much speaks for itself. Also, there really isn't anything in her post that most people are willing to try to defend.

Will she respond? I doubt it. She has a long and distinguished record of ignoring my responses, and I see no reason she would change her SOP now.

What I will be interested to see is if she continues to send me such rubbish after this.* Time will tell.

d

* It may be pertinent to point out that I do see her in person from time to time, and she only has the nicest, praise-filled things to say to me, and wouldn't think of even broaching the subject of religion. This is entirely an email rudeness.

[maddog]

Y'know, slow and careful reader that I am I noticed the 'shutter' misspelling too, but liv's joke went clear over my head until your response. :doh:And there I was blaming it on gramma. I should be shot.

Imperfections such as this make me think, "Am I really qualified for the job?"

I'd blame it on grammar, too.

reminds me of the one about the salesman who comes to the door, which is answered by a little boy. Boy: We don't want none. Salesman: My goodness, son, where's your grammar? Boy: In the kitchen making cookies!

as to "can I do this job?" -- everyone is plagued with self-doubt, but I think your self-answer is spot on: "hell, yeah!"

I must have missed where you wrote about applying and being considered and all that, but wow, cookie, ya done good! Heck with grammar! now go teach grammar!


#911

[LadyShea]

Hey d, I think you responded perfectly to that woman, and you know I am proud of you and think you'll be a great instructor.

Sweetie, why do people get a free pass with regard to respect and manners just because they're old? At what age does one get their "Be an evil bitch without consequences" card?

[Sock Puppet]

Her position is completely non-falsifiable--classic Church of Christ.
Ohemgee dubyateeyeff! Campbell branch? I was raised in that shit.

(Although I know this is something like Argument from Grammar, but still....) That's not a fallacy, it's perfectly valid argumentation. I use it all the time. :wink:

[huntress]

Her position is completely non-falsifiable--classic Church of Christ.
Ohemgee dubyateeyeff! Campbell branch? I was raised in that shit.Ohhellyeah (emphasis on "hell"). The entire family on my mother's side.

On my father's side, they're much more tolerant of others, being Baptist and Methodist. ;)

At what age does one get their "Be an evil bitch without consequences" card?I'm hoping it's 39, because I'm tired of people telling me what a bitch I am. I mean, what gives them the right to be so rude to me about my rudeness? That's what I wanna know.

d

[viscousmemories]

Incidentally di, I don't know if I've ever said it before but I've always admired your willingness to respond humbly and respectfully to what in my opinion amounts to emotional abuse from your Grandmother. It's a testament to your genuine desire to have an honest relationship with your family, at whatever personal cost.

I doubt I have the same strength of character. If anyone I know (family or not) wrote such a callous and condescending letter to me, they'd be completely written out of my life - but probably only after I'd given them some permanent emotional scars of their own.

[Sweetie]

Hey d, I think you responded perfectly to that woman, and you know I am proud of you and think you'll be a great instructor.

Sweetie, why do people get a free pass with regard to respect and manners just because they're old? At what age does one get their "Be an evil bitch without consequences" card?

There is quite the difference between taking your grievances with your family to other members of your family or to people you know who know them and you to try and "deal" with her, it is quite another to bring it here.

This supposedly "hateful" email campaign, or whatever diana is claiming it is, is just that, an email thing, ignore her emails if that's the problem. Block her address if you have to. When my family is pressuring me in any way I choose not to tolerate anymore, because families do that sometimes, which is usually motivated out of pain or love, I tell them that I am no longer receptive to their opinions, and let them know in word or deed that I will no longer be reading things or hearing things of that nature. I may describe the event as an aside, as I have recently about my interactions with my father, but fuck if I'd bring it the correspondences here, of all places.

You can argue that it's been this long drawn out thing, but the problem is, apparently she has let it drag on. Her bad. If it's lasted so long, neither of them are getting anywhere, and they are claiming it hurts, then she should make it stop instead of coming elsewhere to whine about it, especially here.

And yes, old people tend to get a bit ridiculous in their old age. There are times when you simply have to ignore them, because they are set in their ways, and chances are, at their age, we probably will be just like them. There is a point when an adult needs to recognize this, question how much choice they really have in how they act, and decide whether to love them and ignore it, to try and graciously change their mind, and if that doesn't work, to cut off their input in whichever way one needs to but you don't hold them up for everybody to judge and potentially ridicule.

And for the record, the last people on the planet I want to get into a conflict about religion through religious discussion with, is my family. That can get the worst it can get that way.

This is neither the only way nor the most effective way to deal with a family member or a family crisis. To me, coming here and getting validation is the most immature way possible. This here, right here, at FF, is the biggest problem, not what is not what is going on at her blog. Why does it need to be here? What is the psychological motivation, especially if the grandmother is not intended to see it? It comes accross as a sort of superiority, arrogance type of thing. Maybe others are used to it, it's my first encounter with it on the net, and I think it's shameful. Just my opinion.

[LadyShea]

There is quite the difference between taking your grievances with your family to other members of your family or to people you know who know them and you to try and "deal" with her, it is quite another to bring it here.

Why is it different? If one wants to talk about their problematic relationships with friends, what's the issue?

This supposedly "hateful" email campaign, or whatever diana is claiming it is, is just that, an email thing, ignore her emails if that's the problem. Block her address if you have to. When my family is pressuring me in any way I choose not to tolerate anymore, because families do that sometimes, which is usually motivated out of pain or love, I tell them that I am no longer receptive to their opinions, and let them know in word or deed that I will no longer be reading things or hearing things of that nature. I may describe the event as an aside, as I have recently about my interactions with my father, but fuck if I'd bring it the correspondences here, of all places.

And nobody is saying you have to. If you would rather keep your shit private, that's your perogative...but why should others feel the same way you do?

You can argue that it's been this long drawn out thing, but the problem is, apparently she has let it drag on. Her bad. If it's lasted so long, neither of them are getting anywhere, and they are claiming it hurts, then she should make it stop instead of coming elsewhere to whine about it, especially here.

Who are you to tell her what she should do or how she should handle her relationships?

There are times when you simply have to ignore them, because they are set in their ways, and chances are, at their age, we probably will be just like them.

I don't have to do anything, let alone ignore rudeness. My grandmother is passive-aggressive, selfish, petty, and manipulative...she has always been that way, this is not an "old age ridiculousness" situation. I have no reason to believe my personality will fundamentally change as I age, unless I get Alhzeimers or something. So, no, I will not be just like my grandmother, because I am not like her now.

There is a point when an adult needs to recognize this, question how much choice they really have in how they act, and decide whether to love them and ignore it, to try and graciously change their mind, and if that doesn't work, to cut off their input in whichever way one needs to but you don't hold them up for everybody to judge and potentially ridicule.

But , Sweetie, why are your preferences on how to handle the issue more valid or more correct than the Huntress'? It's not your relationship nor your grandmother.

I would have ceased all contact long ago, but I am not Huntress.

And for the record, the last people on the planet I want to get into a conflict about religion through religious discussion with, is my family. That can get the worst it can get that way.


Again, that's your choice.

This is neither the only way nor the most effective way to deal with a family member or a family crisis.

Nobody said it was the only way, nor that it was effective.

To me, coming here and getting validation is the most immature way possible.

Your opinion is noted.

This here, right here, at FF, is the biggest problem, not what is not what is going on at her blog. Why does it need to be here?

Why not? Huntress wanted to discuss it with friends here.

What is the psychological motivation, especially if the grandmother is not intended to see it?

Wanting to discuss a situation with friends is the motiviation I should think

It comes accross as a sort of superiority, arrogance type of thing. Maybe others are used to it, it's my first encounter with it on the net, and I think it's shameful. Just my opinion.

Since I know the Huntress, personally, I know she is neither arrogant nor has a superiority issue. My perception of all this is that she is hurt, and wants to discuss it with friends...but my perception is different because I know the background.

Anyway, certainly nobody is asking you to approve, nor not state your opinion, however you seem to feel awfully strongly about it and I was curious as to why.

[huntress]

There is quite the difference between taking your grievances with your family to other members of your family or to people you know who know them and you to try and "deal" with her, it is quite another to bring it here.I understand your point of view, Sweetie. I respectfully disagree that I should keep my grievances with my family private, per se.

My experiences with bulletin boards has taught me that they are places to laugh at things you find funny, argue with things you disagree with, and voice your feelings when you've been hurt. Sometimes, being human, we mix these things up. We talk about things that are a part of our lives, just like any other community. You come from a culture/subculture in which it is anathema to tell others that your family is fucked up. I don't. You wouldn't dream of telling anyone outside your family circle that your mother treats you like shit. I would. Feel free to keep your dirty laundry moldering in the closet. I would like to air mine. If you choose to not sniff it while it's on the clothesline, you may do the internet equivalent to wandering away from the conversation that doesn't interest you: go read another thread.

Your characterization of my intent in a thread I entitled "Yeah...that hurt" as validation and as my tone as whining is interesting, to say the least.

Yes, I could have (1) blocked my grandmother's email or (2) simply deleted her emails. In my view, that's worse that posting her comments for the world to see, but pointedly not ending the conversation. In my family, you say what you think (in case you can't tell), but you do not walk away from or avoid a conversation. To block her would have been the height of rudeness and would have destroyed what little relationship we have to salvage. To ignore her outright would be interpreted by my entire family as tacit admission that she is right and I know it and I wish to continue in sin and fear being confronted with the fact of my impending eternal damnation.

That leaves me two choices: continue my conversation with her behind closed doors OR take it into the open. The problem with private conversations is that those people who are intent upon preaching but refuse to even consider the other person's point of view is that there is never any catalyst to change the pointless behavior. However, when the conversation is brought to light, the brightness of the venue often helps them see their own blemishes. Yes, it's painful, but frankly, I don't know of a more effective way to accomplish this.

In short, you handle things with your family using the rules of your family engagements, and I'll handle things with mine using the rules of my family engagements.

And yes, old people tend to get a bit ridiculous in their old age. There are times when you simply have to ignore them, because they are set in their ways, and chances are, at their age, we probably will be just like them.I think this is poor logic, and it's the reason old folks continue to be rude in ways younger folk would never be excused for. My grandmother is no more (or less) set in her ways now than she was when she was my age. The fact that she is a senior citizen is no excuse for poor behavior. When I am a senior citizen, I fully expect people to lambast me still--kinda like you are doing right now.

Thank you for sharing your thoughts.

d

EDIT TO ADD: Crosspost with LadyShea. Interesting that she and I have not discussed this, to my knowledge, but she and I had many of the same points to make.

[pescifish]

And yes, old people tend to get a bit ridiculous in their old age. There are times when you simply have to ignore them, because they are set in their ways, and chances are, at their age, we probably will be just like them. It seems to me that this attitude is the definition of disrespectful.

Reducing an individual to something that should be ignored is the opposite of respect. I'm sure all the elderly really appreciate the sort of 'respect' you are advocating: hand them cookies and tea, pat them on their age-addled empty heads, ignore them and any thoughts they have.

That only demonstrates an attitude that they are worthless. How you can advocate that while giving some holier-than-thou lecture on respect is too twisted for me to fathom.

[Anastasia Beaverhausen]

d, I know you'll be a great teacher, and will have a wonderful time in the Springs. Ignore the old bat. :huggle:

[Shake]

d, you almost make me want to lie about my age so I can get into the Academy and take a class of yours. Of course, that'd mean voluntarily taking an English class, something which I've been avoiding for a long time now. Heck, I CLEP'd out of English in the service.

Anyway, I find that as usual all your responses, including those here, are well-written, civil and to the point. I also agree with you that sometimes such things need to be replied to rather than merely ignored. I ignore a lot of the spam I get, at the request of my wife. She doesn't get it when I write a well-reasoned reply to some of the crap I get via email. I posit that most folks probably operate under the principle that silence equals consent. So, rather than following the instruction, "if you don't agree with this, delete it," I find it better to make my position known. This has worked to an extent in that, I know that some people don't send me as much email anymore.

[Sweetie]

Why is it different? If one wants to talk about their problematic relationships with friends, what's the issue?

I do have an arguement for you, I could build if you want me to, rational discourse, at least five good points not for why she shouldn't want to discuss this problem, which I'm not disagreeing with, but why she wants to expose her grandma up to the internet in this way, and especially here, where there are fewer friends then strangers to expose her grandma to.

So, if you can see what I disagree with and what I don't, that would be good for the rest of a potential discussion.

But besides all that, there are three reasons that I am having a real issue with it.

The first one is that, I have family problems too, we all do. I'll just describe one recent situation for you, so that you can judge the very least what I put up with from my family, how I handle it, and this is the very smallest example I can think of.

So, recently a really close family member, who totally disagrees with my internet use, complained about my computer/internet use. I said in response, that I don't really spend much time on the internet anymore, most of my online friends are busy or what have you, and my favorite friend is gone.

"Where'd he go?", she asks.

"Well, he died," I respond.

"Oh, how did he die?", she asks.

"He committed suicide," I responded, though I told her the rather unfortunate way the act was done.

And she scoffs at me, and very snidely said, "These are the people you interact with on the net, these are your "friends"?" ie: in other words, mentally disturbed people.

As much as she was right, it didn't change anything for her to be snide or to come down on me for it, so I looked at her and very clearly, and very strongly said, "I do not want to hear it." ie: in other words, feel free to harp on me about it, but I am not receptive, and if you choose to do so, I'm leaving......and that's it.

However, given that situation, the least example I could bring up of troublesome issues with my family members, I would not, nor ever hold any person I loved, especially my family, to let people here be their judge and jury, people who I know in some cases are mentally disturbed, other people who I know from experience, are very biased, other people I know, who have terrible judgement.

So then, I won't let them be a loved one's judge and jury, because they are in no good position to judge, so then, I will be the judge and jury of the person here who is inviting it by deciding that other people, even strangers, should be the judge and jury of a member of their family.

For a surety, you could not pay me enough to put something personal of a family member here for someone like lunachick to comment on, someone who is almost entirely incapable of honest unbiased discourse herself. When she can come down on me and tell me that I need to do something because it might discomfit someone else's family member, and yet here she is applauding and participating in the same damned thing, it's absurd and one of the most clearest example of hypocrasy I have ever had the misfortune to witness.



And nobody is saying you have to. If you would rather keep your shit private, that's your perogative...but why should others feel the same way you do?

Because it's not her shit that she's presenting so much as it is her grandma that she's exposing.

Who are you to tell her what she should do or how she should handle her relationships?

Why, I am the judge and jury of her in the same way she has just set all of us up as judge and jury of her grandmother, that's what. Just turning the tables.


I don't have to do anything, let alone ignore rudeness. My grandmother is passive-aggressive, selfish, petty, and manipulative...she has always been that way, this is not an "old age ridiculousness" situation. I have no reason to believe my personality will fundamentally change as I age, unless I get Alhzeimers or something. So, no, I will not be just like my grandmother, because I am not like her now.

Given that, why don't you expose your grandma to our eyes, why haven't I read things of that nature from you, or from anyone else here, in the same way diana has choosen to behave? Probably, because it doesn't belong here at the very least, though you are free to argue that you just handle things differently. Chances are though, that the way you choose to handle your grandmother, especially by not bringing it here, is more adult, more mature, and more effective, agree or disagree?

You are right that people do things differently, but can you honestly say that in many ways there aren't better ways to do things sometimes and that we should just agree with someone who chooses to do things this way. It could be that it is the least effective way, and that is certainly what I'm arguing.

That's all that I'm saying.

[LadyShea]

Given that, why don't you expose your grandma to our eyes, why haven't I read things of that nature from you, or from anyone else here, in the same way diana has choosen to behave?

My grandmother doesn't bother to interact with me much, occasional "how are you doing" phone calls. She would never dare criticize me or treat me rudely like she does others, because I warned her when I was in my teens that I had no problem with cutting her off completely.

Probably, because it doesn't belong here at the very least

No, I have mentioned her pettiness on forums before if the subject came up. I don't have any particular belief that family dynamics are off limits for discussion or whatever it is you believe.

Chances are though, that the way you choose to handle your grandmother, especially by not bringing it here, is more adult, more mature, and more effective, agree or disagree?

I can't agree or disagree. I threatened her with zero contact if she crossed the line with me again, ever, and I was like 14 when I did it. I can't say it was more adult, or mature. It was effective, yes.

[huntress]

...judge and jury...judge and jury...judge and jury....

...judge and jury....

...judge and jury...judge and jury....

That's all I'm saying.People wouldn't tell you something about another person just to get your opinion of how they should deal with it. Or just to tell you that something hurt them. Or to give you an idea of the sort of thing they deal with so you can better understand them. Or just because they thought something was funny. Or stupid. Or sad.

I think the problem isn't that others set you up as judge and jury so much as you who set yourself up as judge and jury.

d

[Petra]

...for someone like lunachick to comment on, someone who is almost entirely incapable of honest unbiased discourse herself. When she can come down on me and tell me that I need to do something because it might discomfit someone else's family member, and yet here she is applauding and participating in the same damned thing...

The same damned thing?! What planet are you on?

I sent you a short, terse PM asking you if you were going to honour Brony's wishes and edit your posts. She'd just lost her brother, for crissakes.


Huntress,

I finally actually read the letter - didn't have time the other day - and see that you did reply to her. Good reply, too. But don't I feel foolish, all a-sudden! :blush: