Mafia IV- Deadwood, Hearst Comes to Town

[beyelzu]

So, I'm thinking about making a mafia/werewolf game that is deadwood based as previously mentioned by others. If someone else would like to gm, I am down. But, here is what I have been thinking about rules and possible game mechanics. The day would end at midnight eastern standard time, everyday. Play would then move to the peanut gallery thread, which would be named the Gem. Nighttime death would happen whenever i wake up in the morning, but it would be by noon eastern standard time. No pms are allowed except by the Hearst henchmen which could only talk to each other under the cover of nightfall. If they try to send pms to each other during the day, noon till midnight EST the "honest citizens" of deadwood would notice. Person with the most votes gets lynched. If someone else would like to gm, I am down. The setup is pretty simple. Hearst is making a move on deadwood and attempting to get the town to turn on each other.

roles.

Bullock, every night the sheriff Bullock beats one person bloody in an attempt to discover if they are working for Hearst.

Swearengen Every night Swearengen has Dan kill someone who he suspects of working for Hearst.

Doc Cochran can save someone bushwacked by the hearst people.

Charlie Utter the deputy, cannot investigate himself, lacking Bullock's propensity towards violence, but if the sheriff dies, Charlie is given the information about the investigations the sheriff has done so far.

The Coward Jack McCall can kill one player during the course of the game, works on the side of evil, but if the sheriff lives, the coward Jack McCall is hung the next day in addition to any other lynching by the town of deadwood.

Reverend Smith so long as the good reverend is alive, the town finds out the role of the people who die. Once the reverend dies however, no one else in deadwood can be bothered to go through the dead peoples things.


so lets have some thoughts and some signups people.

[Crumb]

Bullock, every night the sheriff Bullock beats one person bloody in an attempt to discover if they are working for Hearst.
Does this imply that the person learns they have been investigated?

[beyelzu]

right now Im considering the game mechanic. I think the person might learn that they have been investigated. Or, conversely, I could send multiple pms out to let people know that the night before they were beaten bloody so in effect there would only be a chance that the sheriff actually did the beating.

[beyelzu]

Trixie every night Trixie can occupy a character with her feminine wiles preventing them from taking their night action. Possibly, the sheriff would be immune as he has such a stick up his ass.


Francis Wolcott can investigate someone every night for the Hearst side, but does not know who is working for hearst at the start. If he investigates the whore Trixie, he kills her in a fit of rage.

[Crumb]

I think learning that you'd been investigated would be an advantage for the evils. Since this game is already in their favor, I don't think giving them another advantage is a good idea.

[beyelzu]

yeah but in event of the death of the sheriff, the town would still have Charlie Utter to help them.

Like i said before, im just considering game mechanics right now. I want the game to have a quality deadwood feel in both description and action.

And again like I said before, i could allow various townies to administer a beating on someone else. Making the mafia suspect that they have been investigated when they recieve a beating but making it where they wouldnt know for sure. I actually think that it would add an element of mindfuckery to the mafia and thus they wouldnt hold all the cards.

[Crumb]

That doesn't sound bad bey. What about Jane?

[beyelzu]

Also, does anyone actually want to sign up for the game. while we are ironing out game mechanics. I foresee the game not starting till later this week or the first part of next week.

and like i said earlier if anyone else wants to gm, Im ok with that. I just really want to get a deadwood game of mafia running, and since no one else is doing it i decided to take initiative.

[beyelzu]

possible role

hooplehead administers a beating to another towns person for little or no reason. Hoopleheads count as being town people.

[beyelzu]

Calamity Jane administers a drunken beating while yelling cocksucker.

:tmgrin:

[beyelzu]

and i also think that Bullock will know who Charlie is, which will give an advantage to the town as its one less person to investigate.

[Crumb]

This sounds good, bey. I am in.

[livius drusus]

I don't like people being told they've been investigated at all. The fact that Utter will take over is very handy indeed, but, frankly, it's not enough to counter handing Hearts' men the certain knowledge that they've been found out.

The town beating option improves the situation, but I think may be excessively complex. One of the things that sucked about the recent WW game at II was the ridiculous proliferation of roles and actions, imo.

[beyelzu]

1. Crumbles
2.
3.
4.
5.
6.
7.
8.
9.
10.
11.
12.
13.
14.
15.
16.
17.

who else, and feel free to talk about the game mechanics.

[beyelzu]

I don't like people being told they've been investigated at all. The fact that Utter will take over is very handy indeed, but, frankly, it's not enough to counter handing Hearts' men the certain knowledge that they've been found out.

The town beating option improves the situation, but I think may be excessively complex. One of the things that sucked about the recent WW game at II was the ridiculous proliferation of roles and actions, imo.
conversely, however, if it isnt certain knowledge its no big deal. It adds an element of uncertainty for the mafia. One of the failings of mafia in my opinion is the lack of uncertainity for the mafia, with the exception of looking for the cop.

Also, giving a person a role like hooplehead at least lets them do something and is far more interesting then making them just townie.

I think that having multiple roles that allow players to do something even if that something only slightly changes the course of the game, like hoopleheads, will increase the fun for the players. It will be alot of pms to fire off and for the gm to read, but i dont think gameplay will actually be nearly as complex as in the ww game at ii because we wont have competing groups of evils, that imho is what can make a game really complex even if it is relatively vanilla otherwise.


also I think Charlie Utter will be allowed to investigate one person, he just cant bring himself to beat people night after night.

[viscousmemories]

1. Crumbles
2. viscousmemories
3.
4.
5.
6.
7.
8.
9.
10.
11.
12.
13.
14.
15.
16.
17.

I'm down with playing, but I've never seen the show and don't want to GM.

[beyelzu]

cool. I think it will be fun even if you havent seen the show. The added element of a time limit should be cool. something that makes ww fun in my opinion.

[viscousmemories]

Yeah I implemented a time limit over there in the neverending Mafia game last night. :D

[livius drusus]

conversely, however, if it isnt certain knowledge its no big deal. It adds an element of uncertainty for the mafia. One of the failings of mafia in my opinion is the lack of uncertainity for the mafia, with the exception of looking for the cop.

I agree. In fact, I'd like to see a mafia turncoat or squealer or stool-pigeon. Not in this game, mind you, because it doesn't really fit the theme, but it's definitely something I've considered.

Also, giving a person a role like hooplehead at least lets them do something and is far more interesting then making them just townie.

I think that having multiple roles that allow players to do something even if that something only slightly changes the course of the game, like hoopleheads, will increase the fun for the players.

It does, but it also ups the level of difficulty and adds a lot of confusion into the mix. I'm not trying to crap on roles in general, but I don't think game balance is well-served by everyone having something specific to hide and/or do.

It will be alot of pms to fire off and for the gm to read, but i dont think gameplay will actually be nearly as complex as in the ww game at ii because we wont have competing groups of evils, that imho is what can make a game really complex even if it is relatively vanilla otherwise.

Yes, it definitely won't be as complex as the competing bad guys setup, but again, the question is where to draw the line.

also I think Charlie Utter will be allowed to investigate one person, he just cant bring himself to beat people night after night.

I like Utter getting another investigation. I like Jane having a role, but I'm not sure counterpart to Bullock's beatings does her justice. She doesn't really deliver whuppings on the show.

Anyway, I don't want to be all negative here. This is a great theme with lots of cool options. I'll even volunteer to GM, just for the coolness of getting to write up the scenes.

[beyelzu]

oh really, you want to gm, sweet. Im really not sure as to what kind of role to give Jane.

ifn you want to gm.

then sign me up for play. i was thinking of having 3 hearst people, and around 3-4 hoopleheads to keep the beatings going on.

one question is on daybreak, we could reveal or rather you could reveal the people that have recieved beatings the day before. very interesting. anyway. all decisions will of course be yours, liv, i dont intend to backseat gm.

1. Crumbles
2. viscousmemories
3.
4.
5.
6.
7.
8.
9.
10.
11.
12. beyelzu
13.
14.
15.
16.
17.

[livius drusus]

:laugh: Your beating fetish is so cute. :huggle:

Let's see how many people sign up before we pick numbers, but 3 Hearst men sounds like a good basic set to me. Wouldn't a group of hooples end up acting like a competing group of bad guys, though?

I'm still not sure about revealing who received beatings. If it's just Bullock whupping people, then definitely not; if there's another whupper, then definitely maybe.

I know you won't backseat GM, baby. I'd modkill your ass even before you asked for it if you did. :giggle:

[beyelzu]

well the hooples wouldnt know eachother and the only point of them being around is for a mechanism that would allow a beating reveal for Bullock without a definite notice to the Hearst men. furthermore, for all purposes the hooples are just townies that like to kick the shit out of there fellow men and women of course.

[beyelzu]

oh how livius drusus waxes corrupt with power as her newly roman clients swear allegiance to her.


:tmgrin:

if only i had led a mob against you when i had the chance.

[livius drusus]

Oh wow, so you're thinking 3 or 4 hooples would each individually administer beatings every night? Damn, you really want to see some contusions that mean business up in here.

[livius drusus]

oh how livius drusus waxes corrupt with power as her newly roman clients swear allegiance to her.
No, no, that's a whole other theme. :tmevil:

if only i had led a mob against you when i had the chance.
:ptht:

[cappuccino]

Although I was planning to take a good long break after Mafia III, I'm gonna sign up for this one too cuz of liv's offer to gm this one. I'd play just to see what she comes up with. I'm more eager to do a Roman theme but a Western theme sounds like a whole load of fun too.

1. Crumbles
2. viscousmemories
3.
4.
5.
6.
7.
8.
9.
10. cappuccino
11.
12. beyelzu
13.
14.
15.
16.
17.

[livius drusus]

Oo! Oo! Jane idea! She can be to Doc Cochran what Utter is to Bullock! If Doc gets it, she can pull herself out of a drunken haze long enough to protect one person.

What do you think?

[beyelzu]

good call on the jane idea, i think it makes alot of sense. we might need a fourth hearst man though.

hmm. just a thought.

[Crumb]

Good idea for Jane, liv. If the hooples know each other and are townies then they are really like a mason role right? with the added benefit of beating someone up that is... If there are multiple beatings everynight I don't think the gm should reveal it. It should be up to the beatee to determine whether they want to let people know or kee it to themselves.

:hyper:

[livius drusus]

Masons work as a unit though, don't they? I got the impression bey was thinking the hooples would be working alone, which would multiply the beatings received.

[beyelzu]

the hooples do not work together.

basically they are just townies that get drunk and beat the shit out of eachother and others at night. providing cover for bullock and something fun for townspeople to do.

[beyelzu]

Good idea for Jane, liv. If the hooples know each other and are townies then they are really like a mason role right? with the added benefit of beating someone up that is... If there are multiple beatings everynight I don't think the gm should reveal it. It should be up to the beatee to determine whether they want to let people know or kee it to themselves.

:hyper:
well, i think that making it multiple beatings allows the gm reveal both to the town at large and to people recieving the beatings.

it can be an interesting game mechanic, imho. it allows the hooples to identify people they think of as suspicious to everyone without revealing who they are.

plus it alllows for some interesting writing from the gm.

[thegoldglove07]

I've been waiting for this. Count me in. :thumbsup:

[livius drusus]

Sweet!

1. Crumbles
2. viscousmemories
3. thegoldglove07
4.
5.
6.
7.
8.
9.
10. cappuccino
11.
12. beyelzu
13.
14.
15.
16.
17.

[thegoldglove07]

Just to warn you guys, This will be my first Mafia game. I have been watching over you a bit and it looks pretty interesting. Well, good luck to all.

[livius drusus]

I hadn't even read a game when I played my first one. You'll do great, I'm sure, and even if you don't, you'll still have a blast. :yup:

[thegoldglove07]

Thank you. I'll try my best. :smile:

[beyelzu]

welcome aboard, mr. glove.


alright, paging, steve, spenser, trill, wei yau and dingfod, adam, slim, ja, clutch, tomjoe. come on peoples this will be fun.

[Joshua Adams]

I've just barely heard of Deadwood. I'll decide later whether I am going to play, the roles look pretty interesting.

[beyelzu]

cool, at least i know your reading the thread. maybe you should read the deadwood thread but just think violent gritty western. i really do think that this game is going to have a distinctive feel.

plus of course, with midnight day ends the game will move quickly

[wei yau]

Cocksuckers! You know I'm in.

1. Crumbles
2. viscousmemories
3. thegoldglove07
4.
5.
6.
7.
8.
9.
10. cappuccino
11.
12. beyelzu
13.
14. wei yau (wu's cousin from San Francisco)
15.
16.
17.

[wei yau]

Although I was planning to take a good long break after Mafia III, I'm gonna sign up for this one too cuz of liv's offer to gm this one. I'd play just to see what she comes up with. I'm more eager to do a Roman theme but a Western theme sounds like a whole load of fun too.


Considering that Deadwood was originally proposed as a series about Rome, but was morphed into a Western since HBO/BBC were already planning "Rome", I think you'll like this one just fine, capp.

[Adam]

I'm thinking about playing, but I don't have the first clue who any of these people the roles are named after are, although I suppose the rules don't really depend on the names.

Will the beatings have any function, other than to screen who's been investigated? Will the victim know who administered the beating?

[livius drusus]

I'm thinking about playing, but I don't have the first clue who any of these people the roles are named after are, although I suppose the rules don't really depend on the names.
Like with any theme, it's a means of dressing up roles that you're already familiar with from the vanilla game. Not that you shouldn't hit the video store and rent Deadwood just on principle because you totally should.

Will the beatings have any function, other than to screen who's been investigated? Will the victim know who administered the beating?
Just screening and giving townies a little something fun to do. No, the victims won't be told who beat them or whether it was a hoopling or sheriffing.

[Crumb]

Not that you shouldn't hit the video store and rent Deadwood just on principle because you totally should.
:hellyes:

[MonCapitan2002]

I have never seen Deadwood, but I am game. There is one caveat, though. If Mafia III is still going on and I am still alive, I might have second thoughts on playing in this game.

1. Crumbles
2. viscousmemories
3. thegoldglove07
4.
5.
6. MonCapitan2002
7.
8.
9.
10. cappuccino
11.
12. beyelzu
13.
14. wei yau (wu's cousin from San Francisco)
15.
16.
17.

[livius drusus]

That's cool, MonCap. Now that I'm GMing that game, I don't mind us taking our time getting this game together. We need more people anyway.

[Adam]

Why the hell not. As far as watching Deadwood, I've been told by numerous people that I need to. Perhaps the next time I need something to do on a boring weekend...

1. Crumbles
2. viscousmemories
3. thegoldglove07
4. Adam
5.
6. MonCapitan2002
7.
8.
9.
10. cappuccino
11.
12. beyelzu
13.
14. wei yau (wu's cousin from San Francisco)
15.
16.
17.

[livius drusus]

Now that's what I like to see. :chestram:

So, what's on the ol' social calendar this weekend, Adam?

[godfry n. glad]

I don't know Deadwood. Is there a town doctor?

[livius drusus]

Yessir, Doc Cochran (http://www.hbo.com/deadwood/cast/character/doccochran.shtml) is his name, and he's a fine man.

[wei yau]

One of the best things that might come out of this game (aside from the grand time I'll have playing with you cocksuckers) is that more people might be introduced to Deadwood and start watching it.

It's too late for the increased viewership to change the show's fate, but at least we can spread the joy that is Deadwood.

[Adam]

Now that's what I like to see. :chestram:

So, what's on the ol' social calendar this weekend, Adam?

Outof town. :P

[livius drusus]

:glare:

[godfry n. glad]

Yessir, Doc Cochran (http://www.hbo.com/deadwood/cast/character/doccochran.shtml) is his name, and he's a fine man.

Well, that sounds just like my kind of character....Not that I'll have a Chinaman's chance of being allotted that role.

I also do not have cable and I understand Deadwood is a cable program. Can somebody tell me what channel and time? Maybe I can convince one of my more connected friends to share or tape.

Sign me up!

1. Crumbles
2. viscousmemories
3. thegoldglove07
4. Adam
5.
6. MonCapitan2002
7.
8.
9.
10. cappuccino
11.
12. beyelzu
13.
14. wei yau (wu's cousin from San Francisco)
15.
16.
17. godfry n. glad

[livius drusus]

It's on HBO, Sundays at 9:00. What you want to look for is a friend with the season 1 dvds, though. This is the 3rd season and it's almost finished.

[wei yau]

Not that I'll have a Chinaman's chance of being allotted that role.

Cocksuckah!

New episodes of Deadwood premiere on Sunday nights at 9pm (ET). However, it is frequently re-broadcast on the main HBO as well as other HBO channels. It's also avaiable "On Demand", which makes it a lot easier to tape.

[wei yau]

Oh and I decided I'll be Wu's nephew and not cousin. It'll help explain why my English is so much better than Uncle Wu's.

[Crumb]

I hear from an unnamed source that all the episodes through season three episode ten are availible from bittorrent at The Pirate Bay.

[thegoldglove07]

I'll have to check it out before this starts. Get the feel for the time and the enviroment.

[MonCapitan2002]

I hear from an unnamed source that all the episodes through season three episode ten are availible from bittorrent at The Pirate Bay.
Your point being? That is an illegal source.

[beyelzu]

I hear from an unnamed source that all the episodes through season three episode ten are availible from bittorrent at The Pirate Bay.
Your point being? That is an illegal source.
and ihave it on good source that you can find all episodes on isohunt.com


or revolutiontt.net but you have tobe a member for that one and they arent currnetly accepting new members.

[TomJoe]

As much fun as it would be to join in on this game ... I think it be best if I sat out a game or two. As a matter of fact, if Mafia V is set to be a regular game, I'll offer to GM it.

[Joshua Adams]

I think I'll definitely maybe play, but no spoiling the show in thread, bastards.

1. Crumbles
2. viscousmemories
3. thegoldglove07
4. Adam
5.
6. MonCapitan2002
7.
8.
9.
10. cappuccino
11.
12. beyelzu
13.
14. wei yau (wu's cousin nephew from San Francisco)
15. Joshua Adams
16.
17. godfry n. glad

[Smilin]

1. Crumbles
2. viscousmemories
3. thegoldglove07
4. Adam
5. Smilin
6. MonCapitan2002
7.
8.
9.
10. cappuccino
11.
12. beyelzu
13.
14. wei yau (wu's cousin from San Francisco)
15. Joshua Adams
16.
17. godfry n. glad

What the hell, I'm in too. Never seen the show and am not likely to watch it, but I love a good theatrical production, so I'm tossing my hat into the ring. :popcorn:

[MonCapitan2002]

Smilin, your sig is fucking hilarious. What happens if we get more than 17 sign ups?

[beyelzu]

tomjoe, you really should play, fuck it it will be fun.

and if we get beyond seventeen we just add another spot.

[TomJoe]

Just so I can be the first killed (cause you know that's exactly what's gonna happen) ...

1. Crumbles
2. viscousmemories
3. thegoldglove07
4. Adam
5. TomJoe
6. MonCapitan2002
7.
8.
9.
10. cappuccino
11.
12. beyelzu
13.
14. wei yau (wu's cousin nephew from San Francisco)
15. Joshua Adams
16.
17. godfry n. glad

[Smilin]

1. Crumbles
2. viscousmemories
3. thegoldglove07
4. Adam
5. TomJoe
6. MonCapitan2002
7. Smilin
8.
9.
10. cappuccino
11.
12. beyelzu
13.
14. wei yau (wu's cousin nephew from San Francisco)
15. Joshua Adams
16.
17. godfry n. glad

Whoooaaa...just wanted to make sure I didn't get booted out by accident!

Thanks MonCap...glad you liked it! :giggle:

[Nightson]

Hmm, thought I was already on the list

1. Crumbles
2. viscousmemories
3. thegoldglove07
4. Adam
5. TomJoe
6. MonCapitan2002
7. Smilin
8.
9.
10. cappuccino
11.
12. beyelzu
13.
14. wei yau (wu's cousin nephew from San Francisco)
15. Joshua Adams
16. Nightson
17. godfry n. glad

[Sock Puppet]

Great theme, bey, and I like the way you're taking care to balance the good & evil roles. However, I need a break. I want to write that boring modal auxiliary article for :ff: , and between concentrating on that, and using my limited time I'm online at home to research the porn links for it, I don't think I can get obsessed involved with another of these games for at least a week.

I don't get HBO and haven't had time to view Deadwood otherwise, except for one episode during a free HBO promo weekend. But I did like it. Sounds like a natural theme for this game format.

[Joshua Adams]

I think we could play Deadwood more than just the one time, perhaps it could be a separate series numbered independently of the mafia games.

If all goes according to plan I'll be spending the majority of Sunday marathoning.

[MonCapitan2002]

How about we delay the start of the game for a week?

[Crumb]

:blah:

[Joshua Adams]

A whole week?? I think Monday or Tuesday is just fine...

[Crumb]

I agree with JA. :) I also think it would be better to call this Deadwood I instaed of Mafia IV. :yup:

[livius drusus]

Makes sense to me. After all, the bad guys aren't mafia but Pinkertons and Hearst underlings.

[Joshua Adams]

You people and your moon speak.

[MonCapitan2002]

I think Deadwood is a good name.

[beyelzu]

i agree we can make it deadwood I instead of mafia IV

[beyelzu]

thoughts,

maybe we should allow swearengen and bullock. the vigi and the cop to talk from the beginning like the mafia. it might balance the game more. that way there would be competing voting blocks with extra knowledge instead of just the mafia with extra knowledge.

it seems that either we as townies arent playing real well, the mafia is playing very well or the conditions are stacked against the town.

what do you think liv?

[livius drusus]

All of the above, I would say.

How about this: since Swearengen and Bullock have an uneasy sort of alliance against Hearst, how about they can talk once, at night via PM, during the course of the game?

[beyelzu]

thats actually really cool. they get one day to plan they can exchange multiple pms?

that would be very cool. potentially very powerful but requires good timing and/or strategy.

is that what you had in mind. or did you mean one exchange of pms?

[livius drusus]

The former: one night during which they can exchange all the PMs their hearts desire. As you say, that gives them a shot at a real leg up, but they have to be supersmart about it.

[Joshua Adams]

I think allowing the cop/vigi to plan every night would be extremely powerful. Mafia would die as soon as the cop finds them, or a night later if the order of events goes that way. The only reason the cop would ever have to come out is if he was on the verge of being lynched, or the vigi died.

If they can only PM once it should be at the cop's discretion...

Is Utter a party to any of this? Is he in contact with Bullock? Does he get the chance to PM Swearengen if Bullock dies without using it?

What roles are going to be final? How many Hearst underlings? When do we start?

I have watched 4 episodes of Deadwood, it's pretty damn good.

[cappuccino]

I just had a thought, what about allowing players to hold a séance during the game?

They're only allowed to have one séance per game where they may ask three yes/no questions to whichever dead player they want to communicate with. That way if somebody with potentially valuable information(i.e a cop or a vig) is prematurely killed, the other players could bring back that person and glean information from him/her.

[Crumb]

:nuhuh:

[cappuccino]

:tmtongue:

[Crumb]

Maybe in some other game. Not in Deadwood.

[livius drusus]

Yeah, I have to agree. An occult theme could definitely be a blast, though. You should GM one, capp. :yup:

[cappuccino]

An occult theme game would be a blast around Halloween time definitely. I'd love to GM a game, maybe after we do a Roman theme game.

[livius drusus]

If they can only PM once it should be at the cop's discretion...
That sounds fair. The cop is told in the beginning who the vig is and is allowed one night of contact. I think that could give the town a quality boost without making it a sure-fire hit.

Is Utter a party to any of this?

No.

Is he in contact with Bullock?

No. Utter is basically a vanilla townie until Bullock dies, just as Jane is vanilla until Doc Cochran dies.

Does he get the chance to PM Swearengen if Bullock dies without using it?

Yes.

What roles are going to be final? How many Hearst underlings? When do we start?

Right now we have 13 people signed up, so I'd say 3 Hearsts, 3 hooples, 1 Swearengen, 1 Bullock, 1 Utter, 1 Doc Cochran, 1 Jane. It's a pretty crowded town, but Utter and Jane may never have to step up to the plate, so I think it's still balanced.

How does that sound to everyone?

[Joshua Adams]

What does Jane do again? Having her just as another hoople seems kinda pointless. And from what I can see she isn't very violent, some kind of auxilliary Doc would make more sense, but that role seems a little too much. EDIT: oh hehe you already suggested that and I forgot about it.

I'd like to see Swearengen in there but maybe with a limited number of kills, or perhaps somebody actually gets the role of Dan and both of them need to survive in order to have the vigilante kills (Dan probably doesn't actually do anything, or get to discuss who dies with Swearengen). Eh just an idea.

[livius drusus]

Oh woops, I forgot to mention the Swearengen/vig character. Yeah, he's definitely in. I don't see any reason to have Dan be an actual role. It seems to me he's best suited to be an off-screen trope used for narrative purposes in this particular game.

[Joshua Adams]

Well, I was just trying to think of ways to balance the vigilante character, which seems to always be a bit of a problem (hence why we limited kills in Mafia 3). So having a useless partner who must survive is one way... it's also somebody who can use his vote to protect the vigilante and vice versa. Which may cause confusion about who is mafia and who is just good guy partners (same with Bullock and Utter). Does that make it more interesting? Too confusing? Unbalanced?

EDIT: This might be better if we had closer to 20 people playing. As of right now, there wouldn't be enough regular townies... every time a lynch came up we'd get a role reveal and a revote, dragging the game.

Since you took Reverend Smith out, does that mean roles will be revealed a la mafia? Are you doing the fixed-days thing like bey suggested, or do we need a majority to lynch?

[balluga]

capp, Nightson running a Roman themed game of werewolf over at IIDB, and sign-ups are still going on.

[Nightson]

capp, Nightson running a Roman themed game of werewolf over at IIDB, and sign-ups are still going on.

I'm considering moving it over here, I think we might get more sign ups, and I'm afraid it hasn't been seeing any life over at IIDB

[beyelzu]

you ought to nightson. alot of the players that play there will play here after all. and there are quite a few people around here who dont like ii all that much cuz its well moderation heavy. especially compared to here where we have virtually no moderation. plus i totally like playing werewolf, all those pms are good fucking times.

[godfry n. glad]

Hey, guys... I just remembered that I'm going to be outta town the second week of September for two weeks.

I should withdraw.

[Joshua Adams]

I don't think the game's going to take 2 weeks. Mafia 3 was/is an absurdly long aberration from the normal 4-5 days.

[livius drusus]

I don't think the game's going to take 2 weeks. Mafia 3 was/is an absurdly long aberration from the normal 4-5 days.
:yeahthat:

It's also a smaller game, godfry. Mafia III started with 17 people. We've got 13.

[godfry n. glad]

Well...okay. I'm in then. But if it's still goin' on come September 11, I'm flying out to Kalispell. I suspect gf will be packing a laptop and we'll be staying at places that I'd be surprised if they didn't have access for customers. I'd probably be able to check in on occasion, I suppose, but it kinda violates the whole idea of vacationing.

[Crumb]

We'll have killed you by then anyways.

[TomJoe]

I don't think the game's going to take 2 weeks. Mafia 3 was/is an absurdly long aberration from the normal 4-5 days.
:yeahthat:

It's also a smaller game, godfry. Mafia III started with 17 people. We've got 13.

Make it 12. My first notion was to avoid this game, but I signed up anyways. Please take me off the list. Sorry.

[livius drusus]

Will do, TomJoe. I say you should take advantage of the time off to craft the game you'll GM. :hellyes:

[TomJoe]

Will do, TomJoe. I say you should take advantage of the time off to craft the game you'll GM. :hellyes:

I've already got my idea. :)

[Joshua Adams]

liv, I was thinking... since at the current time there is exactly one person with no role to speak of, why don't you just make "hooplehead" the regular role that we're all lying about having, and retain the ability to beat people.

Unless, of course, a few more people sign up.

[livius drusus]

Oooh! That's an excellent idea, Joshua. No need for any respectable townies when hooples are best suited for both lynchings and beatings anyway. :thankee:

Okay y'all, the sempiternal Mafia III is now offically defunct. Give me a day's respite and we'll start Deadwood I tomorrow.

[Crumb]

:hyper:

[wei yau]

:eager:

[cappuccino]

:hyperb:

[Joshua Adams]

liv, can we get your email address somehow, for any night action purposes? Perhaps in the role PM, if you don't feel like posting it.

[Smilin]

liv, can we get your email address somehow, for any night action purposes? Perhaps in the role PM, if you don't feel like posting it.

and you work phone number as well as your home number in case we'd rather phone in our choices? :wink:

[Joshua Adams]

What I really want is your address, so I can show up and hand you off the note in person. Can't trust those mailmen as far as you can throw 'em.

[wei yau]

I've got a really tiny mailman. Provided you live close enough to me, I can probably catapult him towards you with my note pinned to his shirt.

[cappuccino]

Oh phooey guys, you've got some boring ideas there.

Liv, why don't we scoot over to Paris each nightfall and I'll give you my note over a breakfast of crepes and caffe au lait at a lovely french café in Marais?

[wei yau]

Oooh la la, check out Mr. Fancy Pants over here.

[Ensign Steve]

I bet he parks his car in a ga-rage.

[wei yau]

I'll take a car-hole any day, thank you very much.

[livius drusus]

I thought it was carhold. Then again, I am a lot classier than you.

I'll PM all role-holders my email addy, never fear. Fortunately that creperie capp is taking me to has wi-fi.

[cappuccino]

I try to be classy but my car's currently parked under a tree where all the birds can take potshots at my nice shiny car. :unpoop:

But it's ok, you can still make fun of me.

[livius drusus]

:hoot:

[wei yau]

From List of neologisms on The Simpsons (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_neologisms_on_The_Simpsons#C)


Car Hole

A common man's term for garage, coined by Moe Szyslak in "The Springfield Connection".

While "Car Hole" appears only twice in the series itself, it is often used by fans to jokingly refer to a garage, or garage-like structure. The phrase first appears in a conversation between Moe Szyslak and Homer Simpson, wherein Moe ridicules Homer for his use of the overly formal word, "garage".

Homer: Hmm. I wonder why he's so eager to go to the garage?
Moe: The "garage"? Hey fellas, the "garage"! Well, ooh la di da, Mr. French Man.
Homer: Well what do you call it?
Moe: A car hole!

[livius drusus]

Oh please. Don't even pretend you didn't just edit that.

[Ensign Steve]

I'm with liv. I thought it was car hold as well.

[wei yau]

I've never edited a wiki entry in my entire life. I treat wiki like gospel.

[wei yau]

Alright then, here's the quote from The Simpsons Archive (http://www.snpp.com/episodes/2F21.html). This is their transcript of the episode.


Homer: Boy, when Marge first told me she was going to the police academy, I thought it'd be fun and exciting, you know, like that movie, "Spaceballs". But instead it's been painful and disturbing like that movie "Police Academy".

Barney: Hey Homer, I'm worried about the beer supply. After this case, and the other case, there's only one case left!

[pretending to be the other people in the room] Yeah, yeah!
Uh, Barney's right. Yeah, let's drink some more beer. Yeah!
Hey, what about some beer? Yeah, Barney's right.

Homer: All right, guys, pipe down. I got some more in the garage.

Herman: [quickly] Uh, I'll, I'll get it for you, Homer.

Homer: Hmm. I wonder why he's so eager to go to the garage?

Moe: The "garage"? Hey fellas, the "garage"! Well, ooh la di da, Mr. French Man.

Homer: Well what do _you_ call it?

Moe: A car hole!

-- Homer gets his vocabulary built, "The Springfield Connection"


And I thought ES was setting up a Simpsons reference for me.

:sadcheer:

[cappuccino]

If it makes you feel better, I didn't get the Simpson reference either. Here's a crepe(darn, no crepe smilies) stuffed with dark chocolate chips, banana slices, and a generous shot of Grand Marnier.

[wei yau]

:homdrool:

[Sock Puppet]

I'm thinking of jumping back in, if y'all will have me and the timing works. So, I was just trying to read back to figure out how the timing will work now that liv is gm'ing. As I understand it, this will still be a timed game like WW, but non-PMing. How will weekends be handled? (Sorry if this was covered, I didn't get through the whole thread.) Like one long day, the way they do at II? I don't get my Internets much on Friday through Sunday, but I should be able to keep up, and then participate more come Monday assuming I survive.

[Crumb]

I think the weekend being one long day is a good idea.

[livius drusus]

Did we discuss timing? I don't recall that we did, but I've been thinking to myself that I'd set a 48 hour limit to the day. That way we ensure a reasonable time of completion but don't squeeze a mafia game into a short werewolf day.

P.S. - I can't believe it's car-hole! That's so perverted!

[Crumb]

beyelzu suggested a timed day early in this thread.

[livius drusus]

He sure did. I had completely forgotten. Okay, here's his original proposal:

The day would end at midnight eastern standard time, everyday. Play would then move to the peanut gallery thread, which would be named the Gem. Nighttime death would happen whenever i wake up in the morning, but it would be by noon eastern standard time.

Yeah, I'm not crazy about this timing. I have a monster pile of writing to do, for one thing, what with all the beatings going down nightly on top of the murders and lynchin's. I don't think the 12 hour day is something I could manage.

What do you think about a 48 hour limit? That takes care of weekends and gives me a little breathing room.

[Joshua Adams]

Is it a limit or an absolute length? Will nightfall occur with a majority or will we have to wait till the end of the 48 hours period?

Also, I've never understood the whole "play moves to the peanut gallery at night" concept. What's the point of it, as opposed to just not closing the thread?

[livius drusus]

A limit. Nightfall will occur with 50% + 1 as in previous games. If a majority vote isn't achieved within 48 hours, we go with whoever has the most votes.

I don't understand the play in the peanut gallery theory either. I think it's best to stop play at night period, although I'm definitely naming the thread "The Gem" 'cause that's cool.

[Crumb]

I like the idea of a 48 hour day limit. If a 50% + 1 is reached before then then the day can end at that time. I don't want to over work you liv, but I thought the beatings were going to go on in private. Otherwise wouldn't we know who is doing the beating?

[livius drusus]

Well, the hooples beat people at random in order to mask the sheriff's investigations, so presumably every morning I would announce who got beat down the night before, without of course commenting on who administered the beating.

[Ensign Steve]

What if you just told the people they had gotten beaten, so they would know, and it's up to them whether they want to reveal it to the thread?

[Crumb]

That's what I was thinking ES.

[livius drusus]

Sounds good to me. :thumbup:

[Sock Puppet]

Rough game. People get their asses kicked so hard they have to be told they've gotten a beating.

[livius drusus]

Damn skrate. So are you in, Sock? I need to see your John Handupasscock on that list if so.

[Crumb]

What's an asscock and why does John have his hand up it? :confused:

[livius drusus]

Sock Puppet doesn't have a plain ol' John Hancock, you see. On account of he's a sock puppet.

[Sock Puppet]

Okie doke. I had to go back and find the most recent list. I removed the extra numbers, presumptuous twit that I am. Anybody who comes along at this point can jolly well be happy to be #14.

1. Crumbles
2. viscousmemories
3. thegoldglove07
4. Adam
5. Sock Puppet
6. MonCapitan2002
7. Smilin
8. cappuccino
9. beyelzu
10. wei yau (wu's cousin nephew from San Francisco)
11. Joshua Adams
12. Nightson
13. godfry n. glad

[livius drusus]

Looks good to me. If anyone on that list isn't able to play this coming week, please speak now.

[Sock Puppet]

One suggestion: If you do need to modkill anybody on Day One, how about finding a replacement player with the same role, sort of the way soap operas do with replacement actors? Nothing would be revealed, and the balance of the game wouldn't change. It wouldn't be practical to do after the first day, since the replacement would have to defend the previous player's voting and posting record, but on Day One there probably wouldn't be much baggage.

[thegoldglove07]

I'll be here. I can't wait.

[viscousmemories]

I hope there will be some layman's explanation of the roles and stuff, 'cause all this hoople beating talk is over this Deadwood mostly virgin's head.

[Crumb]

You're such a hooplehead vm.

[Joshua Adams]

Basically just mafia with fancy names, vm.


Seth Bullock = cop, beats people up (the target is informed they were beaten)
Doc Cochran = doctor
Al Swearengen = vigilante
Charlie Utter = deputy (becomes the cop if Bullock dies, only gets one investigation)
Calamity Jane = doctor's analog of Charlie Utter
Hoopleheads = townies, beats people up so that the sheriff's targets don't know if they have been investigated
Hearst Underlings = mafia

Does Utter know Bullock and Jane know Cochran? Can they choose to forego their night actions or must they be used immediately?

[livius drusus]

Does Utter know Bullock and Jane know Cochran?
Hmm... Good question. My first impulse is to say they don't know until Bullock and Cochran die -- Utter's busy with the freight bidness and Jane is too shitfaced to find her own ass with both hands.

If they up front the doctor and cop have built-in protectors from lynching. I'm not sure if that's too much advantage to the town. :chin:

Can they choose to forego their night actions or must they be used immediately?
Utter and Jane, you mean? They can choose to forego, I'd say.

[godfry n. glad]

I hope there will be some layman's explanation of the roles and stuff, 'cause all this hoople beating talk is over this Deadwood mostly virgin's head.

"Mostly virgin"? I'm entirely virgin with regards Deadwood. I second this request.

[Nightson]

Wikipedia knows all.

[trillian]

I like the time limits!

I'll be #14

[Joshua Adams]

The camp needs every advantage it can get, liv. Unless I wind up one of Hearst's cronies, in which case, fuck 'em. However, I'm fine either way with it, as long as it's made clear.

godfry, see my post above.

Edit: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Characters_of_Deadwood but spoilers abound for those who care.

[MonCapitan2002]

I like the time limits!

I'll be #14

Please keep the list in mind. I'll add you to the bottom of the list Sock Puppet set up.

1. Crumbles
2. viscousmemories
3. thegoldglove07
4. Adam
5. Sock Puppet
6. MonCapitan2002
7. Smilin
8. cappuccino
9. beyelzu
10. wei yau (wu's cousin nephew from San Francisco)
11. Joshua Adams
12. Nightson
13. godfry n. glad
14. trillian

I like the 48 hour limit. I think that is a good amount of time.

[livius drusus]

The camp needs every advantage it can get, liv.

I agree, especially with Swearengen on the loose, looking to slit some Pinkerton throats every night. Okay, I'll go ahead and stipulate that Utter knows who Bullock is and Jane knows who Doc is. They can't communicate, though, and Utter won't know what Bullock knows until after the sheriff dies.

On the hooplehead question, now that we have 14 players, I'm not so sure about making all the townies hooples. Six hooples sounds like a bit much to me. I'm going to drop it back down to 3 hoopleheads and 3 respectable townies.

[Joshua Adams]

A bit late, but...

Are there any other players who know other players (besides the Pinkertons, obviously)? Are the above reciprocal, and does Bullock know who Swearengen is, or does he just have to use you as an intermediary?

Or are these things super sekrit?

[livius drusus]

They're super sektrit now that the game is on. :gamebutt:

[livius drusus]

We need a replacement player. Unfortunately beyelzu's mom isn't well and he's with her and without a decent connection this week.

I've sent out a query or two, but so far haven't gotten any responses. If anyone wants to take a whirl on the velocipede that is Deadwood, here's your chance. :cheer:

[MonCapitan2002]

I hope beyelzu's mom gets well soon.

[Joshua Adams]

Liv, how are you going to resolve ties at the end of the 48 hour period. As you probably know, in the Werewolf games the town elects a mayor who appoints a judge, the tiebreaker. Should we choose a judge, or do you have some maniacal plan, like flipping a coin?

[MonCapitan2002]

She is God. She might resolve the ties herself.

[Nightson]

Liv, how are you going to resolve ties at the end of the 48 hour period. As you probably know, in the Werewolf games the town elects a mayor who appoints a judge, the tiebreaker. Should we choose a judge, or do you have some maniacal plan, like flipping a coin?

As a general rule, random effects equal bad. The fate of the town should never come down to a coin flip.

[livius drusus]

We need a replacement player.

No longer. Leesifer kindly acceded to my badgering and has joined the fray.

Liv, how are you going to resolve ties at the end of the 48 hour period. As you probably know, in the Werewolf games the town elects a mayor who appoints a judge, the tiebreaker. Should we choose a judge, or do you have some maniacal plan, like flipping a coin?
Last time Deadwood appointed a judge The Coward Jack McCall got off scott free. Of course, shortly thereafter said judge was throat-slit, so I suppose it all comes around in the end.

Right now I'm leaning towards a deus ex machina tie-breaker: ie, the last vote is mine. I wouldn't choose at random though, but rather with an eye towards game balance.

Or I could appoint a third party judge from out of town to make an impartial decision.:chin:

[Ensign Steve]

Or I could appoint a third party judge from out of town to make an impartial decision.:chin:
That seems fairer. The tie-breaker voter should be someone who is following the game, but doesn't have any more knowledge of who the roles are than the town does. JMHO.

[Crumb]

I say we let the two cocksuckers fight it out in the thoroughfare!

[livius drusus]

A little of that Captain Turner - Dan Dority action, eh? Now that's good watchin'.

[Crumb]

Uh... I haven't seen that bit yet.

[livius drusus]

Oops. I just made it up anyway. Nothing to see here, folks. :shifty:

[wei yau]

/me struggles mightily to avoid making pun reference

[Joshua Adams]

I'd rather it be a third party than liv voting. Even if you do it for game balance, that is problematic because (a) it might tip everyone or the Pinks off to the identity of the other person, if game balance was served by them living, and (b) if one team has the advantage, evening it out artificially seems a bit unfair to them.

[livius drusus]

True, true. Okay then, let's see if I can find one halfway honest shyster out there.

[Nightson]

The other method was that the first person to reach the tied total was the one who died.

Ohh and GM selection, very, very, very bad idea. People will get annoyed when you choose them over the other person, town will get annoyed if you lynch a power role, town will get annoyed when you lynch a townie over scum, scum will be annoyed when you do the opposite. Essentially, you just lose no matter what you do.

I dunno about a third party arbiter, it's again a matter of people getting annoyed about an element outside the game determining the fate of the game. I think if there's not a rule of some sort, the best solution would be to make one of the rspected townies into a judge who would PM liv a name in the case of a tie.

[livius drusus]

Who would make one of the respected townies a judge? If it's the GM, doesn't that make the judge a mafia target? If it's the town, how do they know they've picked an actual townie?

I like the first person to reach the total idea.

[Nightson]

Well I was thinking the GM just pick someone, but it would be a problem to deal with the judge dieing.

I'm happy with the first to total rule.