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Old 07-13-2018, 06:20 AM
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Ari Ari is offline
I read some of your foolish scree, then just skimmed the rest.
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
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Default Re: Is it OK to punch a Nazi in the head?

Ok getting back to the video. My first comments were based on watching for several seconds and then trying to find a transcript, as then I don't have to take notes while watching and it goes by much faster. But I guess that won't do, so watching the video here I come. In bullet point.

•Disagreement without disrespect, something we ask liberals to do but give a pass to the many many conservatives who have outright told us they don't care about other people's feelings and refuse to give them respect. So right away if the video doesn't focus at least some on the disrespectful of the right we know it's not giving a fair representation of the issue. It makes me think of sports. You can either be drug free and proud of your moral victory and 20th place ribbon, or you can take drugs and compete for 1st place. Now of course those competing for first don't want more competition, so they will be vocal about how not doing drugs is great and you should be proud of your morally sound 20th place, all the while doing it them themselves. At a certain point you have to accept that your competition doesn't actually want what's best for you but what's best for themselves, and are looking to convince you to not compete against them in whatever way they can.

•Oh god, he starts talks, so slow, and pauses, at every, other word. One minute in and he's gotten through 2 sentences, god this is painful, transcripts are the fucking best!

•Some meat! Which liberals only listen to NPR and read the NewYork Times. A minority it seems. Research data shows that on average liberals get their news from a wider range of sources and have a better understand of events than conservatives. In part this makes sense as it was Fox news, not NPR that dubbed every other news channel "Mainstream media" as shorthand to make it easier for their viewers to dismiss it.

•We hurt their fee fees! Daww, is the party of fuck their feelings hurting, let me fix that booboo for you. Conservatives take offense at being *called* racist but don't take offense to actual racism. Which is a big key here, conservatives feel offended because we point out who they are instead of what they imagine to be and that hurts their feelings.

•Omg holy shit, "Liberals treat red states like colonizers treat third world countries" did he just say that? Does he not have a clue about power dynamics or is he just choosing to forget they exist.

•Now comes the we need to convert them part, because apparently when you are dealing with actual nazis the answer isn't to smash them and tell them to fuck off, it's to debate with them, as that worked out so well in the past. I'd say one of the biggest liberal blindspots is thinking that if we just find the right way to say something, racists will suddenly stop being racists, and suddenly care about the lives of people just moments before they wanted to eradicate. Van Jones wants us to become friends with the Nazis. Which just leads to more nazis and their complicit friends.

•Apparently liberals like kale. Which is a totally true fact and not at all a conservative insult about how sissy liberals are.

•Black people not voting for racists is apparently the exact same as republicans not voting for liberals because, um, what exactly, Liberals want to jail and murder all conservatives, haha no of course not! but we know for a fact the republican party wants to jail and kill blacks and are doing so at this very moment. It's a great false equivalency.

•Republicans have indeed voted against their own self interests, this is shown in many ways, from the coal miners still being layed off, to the many republicans who have remorse voting for trump because the prosperity they were promised didn't materialize. Now why might that be, well Van suggests it's because there's a higher reason for their vote, a core value, a reason that would make voting against their economic self interest viable, and what is that? Well thanks to Trump, we know it's racism and sexism. We know that Trump got elected because of his racist screed. Conservatives voted against their self interest because they view black people in power as scarier than anything else and their values are to have white people control things. We know this because of the many interviews trying to "understand" poor whites where those people have resigned themselves to a life of medical problems, debt and early death and seem disappointed that their leaders wont help them, but not angry about it, because at least their leaders are white and aren't a black kenyan.

•That Van Jones thinks rich white liberals vote against their self interests by voting for taxes means he either ascribes to the slash and burn, 'fuck everyone, I got mine,' we'll melt their teeth if we have to, money hoarding business strategy or he doesn't understand economics. Either way it doesn't look good. The slash and burn hoarder business is never sustainable, it's a spiral of lowering returns until society collapses, revolution happens and the hoarding dictator is hung or brutalized (hell, history says every time you excessively hoard money and property from the poor in a downward spiral, they will eventually kill you or your family). If the goal isn't to grab as much as you can and run, then you need a functioning society to sell your product and live in. Google's worth is wholly set on the presumption that power and telecommunications are easily available to everyone. Making sure people you will never meet have a good life and education is in fact making sure they have the ability to use your product when they want and don't try to murder you. That doesn't seem like going against economic self interest at all.
Of course this isn't just me saying this, this is the many liberal business owners who were against Trump's tax plans that would allow them to pay less. It often turns out that not shitting where you eat is a great idea, and making sure others are well enough off that they aren't shitting in your sink benefits everyone.

•If we only hug the nazi supporters everything will be better.... for the nazis.
(and yes, he did literally suggest that maybe republicans just need a hug).

•Oow something I agree with him on. Conservatives have grown to become anti-liberal, but that's nothing new. The drug war was built to remove blacks and liberals. It was specifically targeted at liberal hippies, and adjusted so republicans could still profit and use those same drugs. The difference is we're seeing more of the anti-liberal trolls thanks to the race to the bottom that is twitter..

•One of the many issues here is that he keeps taking conservatives at their word. Conservatives are absolutely not 'pro-family' that's just laughable when you look at the data. They are pro-control. They don't care about family values or life, but they do care about making sure they are in control of your family and your life. That he just called gay people family values allies of republicans really says he doesn't know much about republicans goals and chooses to be ignorant as to why they would never ever consider a gay couple a family. That he thinks pro-marriage republicans are for healthy stable marriages for all people is adorable and naive to the point it strains credibility.

•It was interesting just how much time he tip toed around not saying "racism" when describing the 'new conservatism' so much hemming and hawwing and hand waving. You know he wants to say it, but he just can't, don't want to be offensive, so let's just beat around this bush for a few more decades shall we. It's pretty amazing just how much we are expected to coddle conservatives.

•"Black community". On a side note, I've been informed multiple times by black activist friends that using the phrase "black community" is questionable at best because there is no singular 'black community' except the one defined by white people. There are communities that happen to be black, like Hip-hop but the idea of a 'black community' is built on white people being unable to see nuance and lumping everyone together as a single group.


Van Jones seems to be that friend who finds you being raped at a party and instead of stopping it asks if you were nice to the rapist, if you said no politely and inoffensively, if you considered the rapists feelings, did they have a bad day, you probably didn't even ask, I mean obviously things are hard for the rapist, haven't you considered their point of view? Besides doesn't hating the rapist make you a rapist.
At a certain point you might consider this person to not actually be your friend and if you tried to stay friends with them perhaps you should make a therapy appointment for why you keep returning to abusive relationships.

I don't know who this Van guy is, but it's clear he is not on my side and he is not my friend.

Last edited by Ari; 07-13-2018 at 06:34 AM.
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