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Old 07-23-2016, 12:31 PM
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Default Re: Free will in philosphy and science

Quote:
Originally Posted by peacegirl View Post
You keep using the concept "free will" as not being forced by the laws of nature. No determinist that I know is saying that you are being forced by the laws of nature such that your choice has been determined for you in advance of you making it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GdB
Right. I accentuated what I think is important.
No one always knows, not even the person himself, what choice he will make in advance of him making it. This does nothing to support free will.

Quote:
Originally Posted by peacegirl View Post
Although there is no law prescribing what you must choose, your life history, experiences, and heredity present conditions that push you in a certain direction for satisfaction, which is completely beyond your control.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GdB
As I already told many times, your concept of being in control is just wrong. If organisms in general had no control, how could you explain evolution?
I'm not sure where evolution points to an organism having control over the conditions of his environment.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GdB
There is no contradiction between determinism and having control. What you mean is something like ultimate power over the complete universe for all times. That is just ridiculous. (But But would say, oh, that is just another definition, just as good as any other...)
Man's will is not free means man's choices are beyond his control. Some choices are obviously not the ones society would like him to make. Unfortunately, even the harshest penalties will not deter some people from doing harm to others. There is a better solution.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GdB
And what is pushing different than forcing?
It just means that our environment, along with our heredity, create the conditions that compel us to favor one alternative over another. It doesn't mean we are being forced against our will, or without our consent.

Quote:
You are not free to choose the option that appears the least preferable in your eyes.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GdB
Being free is being able to do what you want. Wanting the least preferable is an absurdity. Nobody in her right mind would propose that free will means that you are able to do what you do not want. (Conclusion.... :chin: )
You are blocked. Free will means we can choose either/or; that there is no meaningful difference between choice A or choice B. That's absurd and makes a mockery out of our ability to contemplate.
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