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Old 02-26-2018, 04:41 AM
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erimir erimir is offline
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Default Re: Trumphole starts another fucking fire

Quote:
Originally Posted by specious_reasons View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Watser? View Post
'Israeli independence' = Mass ethnic cleansing. So yeah, something to celebrate.
The Israelis and the Trump administration think so. If Israeli independence wasn't so closely tied to the ethnic cleansing of Palestinians, I'd be all for the celebration, as I think Israel has a right to exist.
"Right to exist" doesn't really mean anything.

People have a right not to be killed, of course. And self-determination is recognized to some extent. At least in theory, but in practice independence movements are a bit hit and miss.

But when Israelis talk about a "right to exist", they largely mean some variation or combination of the following:
1. the right for Israel to exist as a Jewish state, meaning that special privileges are accorded to Jewish citizens and/or non-citizens (Law of Return) AND the Jewish majority of the population must be maintained
2. the right for Israel to exist in its exact current geographical configuration
3. the right for Israel to maintain "security" which means Palestine can never have full sovereignty since the borders of Israel, the West Bank and Gaza mean that the entire country is essentially a border area

Effectively, to never grant full citizenship to Palestinians in either their own state (Israel will control their borders and limit their military capabilities, along with the necessary impositions to do so) or in a unified Israel-Palestine (that would bring an end to the Jewish majority).

The use of the term "right to exist" is meant to conflate these ideas with the idea that Israeli Jews shouldn't be ethnically cleansed from the area (by death or deportation).

But if, like me, you support freedom of religion and oppose special rights for certain religions, you can't recognize Israel's "right to exist" in the sense that they mean it. I don't support their right to exist as a Jewish state.

Anyway, I can't possibly care about this because I decline to throw away my vote in US elections which primarily affect America and affect a myriad of other international issues aside from Palestine and would accomplish nothing to help Palestine anyway, and don't obsess about it given that I have little to no ability to affect things.
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