[erimir]

Originally Posted by Watser?

Okay, so you're saying it's perfectly alright for that Rivers monster to advocate genocide of Palestinians, including hundreds of children, while this genocide was going on, because their parents are homophobes?

No, that's not what I'm saying at all. I know you get emotional about this subject, but try to read what I said without interpreting it as racist Israel apologetics.

Also, from what I can tell, all she said was that she didn't care about Palestinian casualties, not that Israel should kill them all. Which is plenty shitty, of course.

I don't see why anyone would be making excuses for this kind of hate speech,

I was not making excuses for what she said. They were awful shitty things to say.

regardless of your views of the Palestinians based on what they think according to some US research.

It's just some "US research" from a respected research organization. Are you implying that it's motivated by anti-Muslim bigotry or something? What reason do I have to believe it's inaccurate? In your times there, have you heard lots of pro-gay rights sentiments that are being covered up or something? Is there secretly a lot of tolerance for gays in Arab Muslim countries? Where is your unbiased research showing any other conclusion about Arab Muslim views on homosexuality? Because I've yet to see it. Muslim homophobia is used as a justification for Israeli aggression enough that Palestinian supporters would surely be bringing up research that disproves it if there were any.

And when it comes to the government/leadership (and doubtless many other Palestinians) we're not just talking about, oh, mocking-gays-with-stereotypes level homophobia. We're talking about 10 year prison sentences and advocating the execution of gays. People who think I should go to prison for a long long time, or get my head chopped off.

My point was that those who advocate such things would be "monsters" if you took the same views about homophobia as you take about Israel-Palestine issues.

My point would be that you're letting your emotions get the better of you. It's counterproductive to your goals, for one. For another, it's hypocritical to say Joan Rivers is a monster who should die a painful death but think there's anything wrong with me taking the same view on Muslim homophobia - unless you think gay rights are less important than Palestinian rights.

You're saying Joan Rivers was an anti-Palestinian bigot who makes statements justifying Palestinian casualties, so she's a monster who deserves a painful death. But if many of those Palestinians were homophobic bigots who support executing gays or horrific abuse towards gay people, I can't feel that they deserved the horrible deaths they got?

Because you know that's what the Israeli side has done - using gay rights as an excuse. "How come nobody is mentioning that these Hamas leaders and supporters Israel killed were horrible homophobic monsters?"

And you could take the same view any of the many other bigotries endemic in Arab Muslim society. You want Arab Muslims to be viewed as humans despite the many, many shitty things about their society? Then don't turn around and do the same thing yourself.

Originally Posted by Watser?

What I have a problem with is that you seem to think there is some way this would be excused by something the people who were getting killed were doing or thinking or more to the point what their parents were thinking, because a pretty big percentage of the people whose deaths that asshole was cheering were children.

Yeah, I got that. And most of them were adults. But I don't think your position would be all that different if almost none of the dead were children.

But my point is actually the opposite. It's not excused by it. You're not following me very well.

Apparently being disgusted by someone advocating genocide is my 'personal issue'.

It's your personal issue because it's the one you get most emotional about. Palestine is not the only place in the world where horrific things are happening, but you certainly react more strongly to it.

I agree what she said was awful. But I don't have the same personal connection and emotional response to it that you do. And sometimes, not just this time, you take it too far because of that.

I do have that personal connection to gay rights. And it is hard sometimes for me not to just go "fuck those guys, I hope they all rot" when I know that if I tried to live in those places, without hiding, my life would be in real danger. And knowing the horrible things that happen to gay people born in those places. But that isn't going to make anything better.