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  #26  
Old 03-10-2012, 09:28 PM
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Default Re: When Testosterone Attacks

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Originally Posted by Clutch Munny View Post
To senior dbag when some other dudes (but not female target colleague) are around: "Whoa, dude, how much Bounce would S have to use in the dryer before you stopped clinging to her clothes?" Or "Ya know, if you're that desperate, you could just stash a porn mag in the men's room for yourself, rather than coming around to get an eyeful of S five times a day. Because at least dots printed on a page wouldn't be creeped out." Or whatever.

good advice!
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  #27  
Old 03-10-2012, 09:38 PM
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Default Re: When Testosterone Attacks

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Embarrassing someone for that kind of thing will have them walking on eggshells for a good long while, in my experience (even if they whine and play victim about it).
Yeah I probably didn't make it clear enough before, but when I told her "we say [dirty old man] ABOUT him, not TO him" he was sitting right there. He was pretty clearly embarrassed but muttered something expressing awareness of the popular sentiment and not denying the accusation.
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  #28  
Old 03-10-2012, 09:41 PM
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Default Re: When Testosterone Attacks

What you need to do is assert your dominance in the situation. Yes, the older silverback is used to being the alpha, but he is past his prime. The next time he tries to interrupt your training with Ms Ladypants, you should rip open your shirt and start beating your chest. Bonus dominance if you pull the cap off your pen and threaten to cut him if he tries to horn in on your action.

Also way back in the long time ago when I was working second shift in the lab we had our first Ms Ladypants intern from a real college. She would come in some time in the afternoon and be there into the early evening doing whatever, ostensibly learning about chemistry or science or something. She was there a couple of months or so without incident (or so I am aware) and then one day I'm borting around on the computer in the lab and she peeks her head in and asks "Can I eat my lunch in here?" One of the ~absolute rules in the lab is that NO FOOD is allowed around the many instruments. (Either your food could get contaminated or worse, the sample being analyzed could be contaminated!) But seeing as the desk didn't have any instruments there, and also I'm p sure she's seen me eat snacks or what-not there, I didn't have an issue. She had tried to enjoy some food down in the break room but all the dudes that work in the manufacturing kept walking in. "They keep staring at me," she said, which is why she wanted to eat lunch in peace.
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  #29  
Old 03-10-2012, 10:06 PM
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Default Re: When Testosterone Attacks

I think what pisses me off the most (among the many things that piss me off about this situation) is how unfair it is to her (and to me, and to the rest of my team) that someone who has been teaching technology longer than she has been alive has bent over backward to interact with her more than anyone else at work yet without imparting a single word of wisdom about the requirements of her job.
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  #30  
Old 03-11-2012, 09:23 PM
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Default Re: When Testosterone Attacks

The more I think about this the more I think I made the right decision bringing the situation to the attention of my management team. I've been thinking maybe I should have confronted my co-worker more directly with my concerns first, but given my past experience with him I'm fairly certain the best case scenario is he would tone it down around me; I think there's very little chance he would stop harassing her.

I do think it would be unfortunate if he lost his job over this but I have to keep reminding myself that it isn't my fault if he does, it's his fault. In fact all my stress and discomfort over how I've handled this situation are his fault too. He's been in the corporate world (not to mention the human race) long enough to know that he can't treat a co-worker like that, yet he made the decision to do it and to drag me into it.

One point I forgot to make in my original post was that he told me after the fact that he had called her to the room because he had mentioned the "support lady" to his students and one of them had asked if she's cute--so he called her in for them to judge for themselves. Just as he finished telling me this she walked up and he says to her "they approved". Just in case anyone thinks I'm reading something into the event that wasn't there.
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  #31  
Old 03-11-2012, 09:35 PM
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Default Re: When Testosterone Attacks

What kind of fucking play ground is that place? Holy crap that's bullshit.
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  #32  
Old 03-11-2012, 10:15 PM
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Default Re: When Testosterone Attacks

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Originally Posted by viscousmemories View Post
The more I think about this the more I think I made the right decision bringing the situation to the attention of my management team. I've been thinking maybe I should have confronted my co-worker more directly with my concerns first, but given my past experience with him I'm fairly certain the best case scenario is he would tone it down around me; I think there's very little chance he would stop harassing her.

I do think it would be unfortunate if he lost his job over this but I have to keep reminding myself that it isn't my fault if he does, it's his fault. In fact all my stress and discomfort over how I've handled this situation are his fault too. He's been in the corporate world (not to mention the human race) long enough to know that he can't treat a co-worker like that, yet he made the decision to do it and to drag me into it.

One point I forgot to make in my original post was that he told me after the fact that he had called her to the room because he had mentioned the "support lady" to his students and one of them had asked if she's cute--so he called her in for them to judge for themselves. Just as he finished telling me this she walked up and he says to her "they approved". Just in case anyone thinks I'm reading something into the event that wasn't there.

i find the whole thing weak. we have become a nation of babies with management filling the role of parents. maybe it's because so many people seem to have shitty parents these days.

i think you weaken yourself by not just standing up to this man.

i think you weaken the woman by not allowing her to have a say. how do you think she's going to react to being pulled into a meeting to defend her lack of inaction? i'm sure she'll be mildly chastised for being tolerant, but then isn't that the world these days...

maybe i missed it- i will scan back -but did you tell her you were doing this? did you tell this woman you were going to management?

does this man have kids? of course it's his duty to act responsibly, but if he loses his job is his crime worth depriving his children of income?

and you even write a very telling reply in this thread about the perks of working with a beautiful woman. you reap the same rewards as the office pig. that whole reply made me cringe, but people actually thanked you for leaving it. why did you even think to add it? what could you possibly be telling yourself in your own reply?

well...i suppose it's gonna be just me, but i think you handled it wrong.
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  #33  
Old 03-11-2012, 10:42 PM
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Default Re: When Testosterone Attacks

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Originally Posted by ITSOZAZ View Post
i think you weaken yourself by not just standing up to this man.
In the adult world self worth isn't measured in the need to blindly accept all challenges to your masculinity.

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Originally Posted by ITSOZAZ View Post
i think you weaken the woman
The woman you say.

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Originally Posted by ITSOZAZ View Post
does this man have kids? of course it's his duty to act responsibly, but if he loses his job is his crime worth depriving his children of income?
Ha! Misogyny defender to the rescue! Just think of the children man!
Since Douchebag most likely knows his actions are at least slightly inappropriate, if he cared about his fictional children so much, why doesn't he stop jeopardizing his job. Perhaps his fictional children will learn to not be a douchebag like Dad.


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and you even write a very telling reply in this thread about the perks of working with a beautiful woman. you reap the same rewards as the office pig.
Same logic is used by those office pigs when calling him a lucky dog.
Acknowledgement is not the same as inappropriate actions and unwanted advances.
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  #34  
Old 03-11-2012, 10:48 PM
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Default Re: When Testosterone Attacks

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Originally Posted by Ari View Post
Quote:
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i think you weaken yourself by not just standing up to this man.
In the adult world self worth isn't measured in the need to blindly accept all challenges to your masculinity.
so there was a challenge to his masculinity? i thought so.

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i think you weaken the woman
The woman you say.
i said.

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does this man have kids? of course it's his duty to act responsibly, but if he loses his job is his crime worth depriving his children of income?
Ha! Misogyny defender to the rescue! Just think of the children man!
Since Douchebag most likely knows his actions are at least slightly inappropriate, if he cared about his fictional children so much, why doesn't he stop jeopardizing his job.
Perhaps his fictional children will learn to not be a douchebag like Dad.
how is that misogynous? yes- think of the children. and i never once said that man wasn't responsible for his own actions. the woman is responsible for her own and vm for his...but children depend on adults. let's hope they really don't grow up like that man and become good citizens, comrade.

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Quote:
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and you even write a very telling reply in this thread about the perks of working with a beautiful woman. you reap the same rewards as the office pig.
Same logic is used by those office pigs when calling him a lucky dog.
Acknowledgement is not the same as inappropriate actions and unwanted advances.
so why are there perks to working with a beautiful woman? should you really accept the smiles and winks in the hall? i think those winkers should be reported, too.
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  #35  
Old 03-11-2012, 11:20 PM
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Default Re: When Testosterone Attacks

Quote:
Originally Posted by ITSOZAZ
and you even write a very telling reply in this thread about the perks of working with a beautiful woman.
I never said anything I observed was a "perk", that's just your chauvinism shining through.

Now tell me more about how I should demand that the victim stand on her own two feet while bending over backward to ensure that nothing bad happens to her abuser. :pat:
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  #36  
Old 03-11-2012, 11:24 PM
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Default Re: When Testosterone Attacks

my chauvinism? lol.

you go tell her you see her as a victim and get back to me.

you won't agree with me and you've got the support of lots of victims so it's kind of pointless to go on, but just answer this: did you tell that woman you were going to management? did you discuss that with her?
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Old 03-11-2012, 11:42 PM
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Default Re: When Testosterone Attacks

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my chauvinism? lol.
Yes. lol.

Quote:
you go tell her you see her as a victim and get back to me.
I have made it very clear to her that I think she is a victim of harassment.

Quote:
you won't agree with me and you've got the support of lots of victims so it's kind of pointless to go on,
Yes, arguing with you is almost always pointless. Still I go on...

Quote:
but just answer this: did you tell that woman you were going to management? did you discuss that with her?
No, I did not check with her first. I suspect your employer doesn't have any mandatory annual compliance training in ethics as our corporation does, but if it did you would know that reporting unethical behavior is each individual's responsibility. There is nothing in the training that says "make sure it's cool with the victim before you tell anyone".
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  #38  
Old 03-11-2012, 11:43 PM
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Default Re: When Testosterone Attacks

ah, the victim.

i'll be interested to see what comes of this. good luck!
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  #39  
Old 03-11-2012, 11:48 PM
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Default Re: When Testosterone Attacks

In fairness, I think it'd probably be a good idea to let her know that you're planning to go to management about El Jerko's grossly inappropriate behavior. If nothing else, that will ensure that she isn't caught off-guard if she's asked to give an account of his behavior.

Cheers,

Michael
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  #40  
Old 03-11-2012, 11:52 PM
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Default Re: When Testosterone Attacks

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ah, the victim.

i'll be interested to see what comes of this. good luck!
Yes, and you go on raising your daughters to believe that they should never complain about abuse (much less accept anyone else's help!) and whatever they do they should prioritize how reporting it might adversely affect the abuser.
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  #41  
Old 03-11-2012, 11:56 PM
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Default Re: When Testosterone Attacks

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In fairness, I think it'd probably be a good idea to let her know that you're planning to go to management about El Jerko's grossly inappropriate behavior. If nothing else, that will ensure that she isn't caught off-guard if she's asked to give an account of his behavior.
I've already reported the incident(s) to management.

My first conversation with the director was to ask for advice. I told her I didn't think the behavior rose requiring a formal complaint, but that I needed some guidance about how to handle his constant interruptions to our work. When he pulled her away for show-n-tell the following day I told her I thought he was totally out of line and the next morning I called my director and told her about it. Later I sent her a summary of the event via email per her request.

This all took place Thursday and Friday, so I haven't even seen my colleague since then. However I do plan to tell her Monday that I had that discussion with our director so she will be prepared for anything that comes of it.
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  #42  
Old 03-11-2012, 11:58 PM
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Default Re: When Testosterone Attacks

Good man.
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  #43  
Old 03-11-2012, 11:59 PM
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Quote:
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ah, the victim.

i'll be interested to see what comes of this. good luck!
Yes, and you go on raising your daughters to believe that they should never complain about abuse (much less accept anyone else's help!) and whatever they do they should prioritize how reporting it might adversely affect the abuser.
aha! why would you say something so dumb?

i would advise my daughter that if it was bothering her she should just tell the guy to back off and if he didn't she should take it further. i will raise my daughter not to think she is a victim.

and dumb again- i never asked how it would affect the abuser, but his dependents if he had any. since the woman doesn't seem overly offended by it (i think i like her), i wonder if she would think his being fired would be the right punishment, especially if people depended on him.

he is totally at fault, but i have simply suggested other ways to go about handling it. ways that don't paint women to be a victim.
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Old 03-11-2012, 11:59 PM
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Good man.
priceless.
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Old 03-12-2012, 12:04 AM
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Default Re: When Testosterone Attacks

Whether or not you agree with his methods, do you think he's not trying to do the right thing?
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Old 03-12-2012, 12:07 AM
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Whether or not you agree with his methods, do you think he's not trying to do the right thing?
oh i'm sure his heart's in the right place.
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Old 03-12-2012, 12:15 AM
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Default Re: When Testosterone Attacks

Quote:
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i will raise my daughter not to think she is a victim.
So if she is ever harassed or raped, god forbid, what will she be? A harassment beneficiary? A rape recipient? Help me learn your special language.
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  #48  
Old 03-12-2012, 12:26 AM
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Quote:
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i will raise my daughter not to think she is a victim.
So if she is ever harassed or raped, god forbid, what will she be? A harassment beneficiary? A rape recipient? Help me learn your special language.

seriously?

and i told you what she should do if she's harassed.

i would raise her not to see herself as a victim.

so...if i am followed and flirted with at work...am i a victim?
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Old 03-12-2012, 01:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by viscousmemories View Post
Quote:
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i will raise my daughter not to think she is a victim.
So if she is ever harassed or raped, god forbid, what will she be? A harassment beneficiary? A rape recipient? Help me learn your special language.

seriously?

and i told you what she should do if she's harassed.

i would raise her not to see herself as a victim.

so...if i am followed and flirted with at work...am i a victim?

Since a victim is defined as A person harmed, injured, or killed as a result of a crime, accident, or other event or action.

And since sexual harassment in the workplace is a crime in the US, then you would be the victim of a crime.

This is where you are supposed to say how you won't ever play the victim, you have too much self respect and are not a slave to cultural mamby-pamby conventions, and that you will stand up for yourself, etc.

But that has little to do with whether sexual harassment is a crime, and who was victimized in the crime.

Plus, think of all the things you acknowledge you are a victim of: Nazi-like flag-waving gays, protesters making it hard for you to get to work, political correctness, the gay mafia at your workplace. For a privileged white male who eschews "victim status", you're the most precious "victim" of all.
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  #50  
Old 03-12-2012, 01:28 AM
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Plus, think of all the things you acknowledge you are a victim of: Nazi-like flag-waving gays, protesters making it hard for you to get to work, political correctness, the gay mafia at your workplace. For a privileged white male who eschews "victim status", you're the most precious "victim" of all.

that's true, but it's only here i ever really felt like a victim. :chin:


question- if you asked that woman if she was a victim and she answered no, is she wrong?

and to the other question: if i am followed around by a female colleague who obviously wants me (don't they all?), am i victim? should i wait for another female colleague to white knight me?

oh they're all rhetorical. this victim knows he won't ever get a fair shake here. oh the humanity!
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