Tourism, Travel and Funny, Funny Ignance

[livius drusus]

So I was reading a chapter from an 1848 book on Etruscan sites in Italy yesterday, and I kept bursting into laughter. Between the disquisitions on Etruscan archaeology, George Dennis tosses out things like:

Some one or more of the most respectable inhabitants of these country-towns and villages is always, however — thank Mercury! — ready to entertain the traveller, for a consideration — for what will not an Italian do for gain? — especially the Romans, who, however unlike in most points, resemble their ancestors in thirst for foreign spoil.

How great is that? There's a lot more where that came from too. I'm not even saying it's inaccurate, mind you. I just love that superior, imperialist pigdog tone he cops.

That reminded me of the many people who came to mooch... erm... visit us when we lived in Italy and carried a separate suitcase of presuppositions and urban legends about Italy/Italians with them at all times. One distant cousin actually packed a suitcase with rolls of toilet paper because her travel agent (believe it or not) had told her Italians only had wax paper. Oh, and tea bags. She brought a crate of fucking teabags. No idea what that was about.

So how about y'all? Have you encountered any eyebrow-raising ignorance from tourists? Have you stepped in any yourself?

[LadyShea]

I have actually had someone say to me "Where do all these workers live? Are there residential neighborhoods in Las Vegas?" No, we all live in the casinos

[livius drusus]

That's pretty funny, Shea. Vegas is so often presented solely in terms of its tourist offerings, I'm not surprised that people don't even think about the city beyond the strip. What surprises me is that they'd actually ask someone who lives there (and risk looking like a tool) instead of looking it up first.

[pescifish]

Originally Posted by livius drusus

One distant cousin actually packed a suitcase with rolls of toilet paper because her travel agent (believe it or not) had told her Italians only had wax paper. Oh, and tea bags.

Wow, I never knew Italians use tea to wipe their butts!

Originally Posted by livius drusus

She brought a crate of fucking teabags. No idea what that was about.

Ok, this one I actually might be able to understand -- assuming, of course, that the teabags were full of a particular tea that she liked and might not find available. My brother and sister-in-law bring their special teas when they travel. I'm grateful for that because then I don't have to try and stock something they'd like (I don't think Lipton's is their... well... cup o', ya know.) Also, it seems to me that the tea gives them both a bit of 'home' to start the day with. Generally, they get up early enough to do their yoga and meditations and then settle on my patio to drink their tea before the pets and I do our usual household thing.

Originally Posted by livius drusus

So how about y'all? Have you encountered any eyebrow-raising ignorance from tourists?

Luckily I'm never required to play tour guide around here much. For one, I haven't looked around to catch the changes to my city in many years and second, I think a person would have to work very hard (too hard) to get any sort of real feel for Los Angeles above the commercial tourism attractions. LA, in my opinion, is a piss poor tourist destination, though it probably hosts a damn fine family vacation.

Originally Posted by livius drusus

Have you stepped in any yourself?

I don't do much travelling, but I know that I annoy most people I visit in other parts of the U.S. when I insist that I go to Waffle House, if the chain is in their area.

[livius drusus]

Originally Posted by pescifish

Wow, I never knew Italians use tea to wipe their butts!

/me giggles

Make sure to pass that around as something you learned from an gen-u-wine Eyetalian. The widespread panic in the tourism industry should be amusing.

Ok, this one I actually might be able to understand -- assuming, of course, that the teabags were full of a particular tea that she liked and might not find available.

That would indeed have made sense. As I recall, however, she was under the impression that Italy was simply devoid of all tea.

Luckily I'm never required to play tour guide around here much. For one, I haven't looked around to catch the changes to my city in many years and second, I think a person would have to work very hard (too hard) to get any sort of real feel for Los Angeles above the commercial tourism attractions. LA, in my opinion, is a piss poor tourist destination, though it probably hosts a damn fine family vacation.

I've only been to LA a couple of times on my way to somewhere else. I suppose all the Hollywood stuff and theme parks and whatnot would make it fun for families, but the only LA I'm interested in is the Sunset Boulevard/LA Confidential/seamy retro underbelly aspect.

I don't do much travelling, but I know that I annoy most people I visit in other parts of the U.S. when I insist that I go to Waffle House, if the chain is in their area.

He he... You brute, you. That was definitely a sore spot for my mom: you travel 4000 miles and you want to go to McDonald's? Particularly in Italy, of course, where the local food is legendary.

[godfry n. glad]

Heh... The toliet paper story is amusing until you've actually been somewhere where they don't provide it....like in most of China and central Asia. Carrying toilet paper at all times (actually I opted for one of those Kleenex travel packs) in these places can be a grace-saver at critical times.

Probably the most egregious offense I've seen is the typical American who speaks only English who assumes that because they are amidst those whose native language is other than English that they can speak English and not be understood....and then proceed to blithely disparage the locals or whatever.

The most amusing to me though, is those east coast types (and some foreigners) who show up in points west, like my hometown, and expect to see log cabins, covered wagons, outhouses, and Injuns. Like westerners somehow got caught in the late 19th century.

godfry

[pescifish]

Originally Posted by livius drusus

He he... You brute, you. That was definitely a sore spot for my mom: you travel 4000 miles and you want to go to McDonald's? Particularly in Italy, of course, where the local food is legendary.

Ah, but my case is not exactly the same -- I insist on a nostalgic visit to Waffle House when I travel precisely because I don't have any where I live!

[godfry n. glad]

Originally Posted by livius drusus

He he... You brute, you. That was definitely a sore spot for my mom: you travel 4000 miles and you want to go to McDonald's? Particularly in Italy, of course, where the local food is legendary.

Hey!

Careful, now. As much as I dislike the product that Mickey D's sells, in my experience, you can always depend upon a clean, western-style toilet with toilet paper....Even in Xi'an, China, where public toilets, much less western-style ones, are few and far between. When your digestive system is acclimating itself to the hordes of newly introduced biota, you too, will thank Mickey Ds for just being there.

godfry

[livius drusus]

Originally Posted by godfry n. glad

Heh... The toliet paper story is amusing until you've actually been somewhere where they don't provide it....like in most of China and central Asia. Carrying toilet paper at all times (actually I opted for one of those Kleenex travel packs) in these places can be a grace-saver at critical times.

I suppose I must admit that a goodly part of our bemusement came from how sophisticated we felt our surroundings were compared to the people carting around the tp. Let me ask you, godfry: how did you know to pack the Kleenex? In your case, the info you got aboluting on the road was dead-on. In the case of my cousins, it was 50 years out of date.

Probably the most egregious offense I've seen is the typical American who speaks only English who assumes that because they are amidst those whose native language is other than English that they can speak English and not be understood....and then proceed to blithely disparage the locals or whatever.

Oh, that one is horrendous. I often wonder if some of those people later complain about how the locals should speak English just on principle.

The most amusing to me though, is those east coast types (and some foreigners) who show up in points west, like my hometown, and expect to see log cabins, covered wagons, outhouses, and Injuns. Like westerners somehow got caught in the late 19th century.

/me wracks her brain to be sure she never did that

I blame those crappy "reconstructions" on A&E/History Channel and the tourist trap "ghost town" kinda places like the one in Nevada where I bought a really cool hat.

Appropos of nothing much: my great-grandmother used an outhouse until the day she died in 1980, and that was in Connecticut.

[livius drusus]

Originally Posted by pescifish

Ah, but my case is not exactly the same -- I insist on a nostalgic visit to Waffle House when I travel precisely because I don't have any where I live!

Oh, I see. So it's a taste of the exotic for you, then.

[godfry n. glad]

Originally Posted by livius drusus

I suppose I must admit that a goodly part of our bemusement came from how sophisticated we felt our surroundings were compared to the people carting around the tp. Let me ask you, godfry: how did you know to pack the Kleenex? In your case, the info you got aboluting on the road was dead-on. In the case of my cousins, it was 50 years out of date.

I had acquaintances who'd recently returned from China. It was reinforced by the group leader on the tour, after arrival. It's particularly advised if you're riding the trains.

Oh, that one is horrendous. I often wonder if some of those people later complain about how the locals should speak English just on principle.

Oh, they probably do. What's ironic is the folks who assume nobody speaks English are the same folks who seem to think that every merchant should understand _their_ English. And then, when it's obvious the specific shop-keeper doesn't speak English, they repeat their request, in English, slower and louder. Like that will make a difference (and here, I must admit, I am guilty...I try to catch myself before I get too far along, but I've fallen into the "slower and louder makes for better understanding" pit).

I've found that hand signals often are helpful, but they, too, can be frought with cultural misunderstandings. Like that common American/English hand sign that, to us, means everything is a-okay (thumb and forefinger tips together forming a circle, with the other three fingers straight up) is considered obscene in some cultural milieus, as is the ol' thumbs up (don't ask me which ones).

godfry

[dave_a]

Originally Posted by godfry n. glad

Hey!

Careful, now. As much as I dislike the product that Mickey D's sells, in my experience, you can always depend upon a clean, western-style toilet with toilet paper....Even in Xi'an, China, where public toilets, much less western-style ones, are few and far between. godfry

What do they do after they go #2 in China? I recall in Saudi Arabia they just had holes in the floor (porcelain, I believe). You did you business and then turned on a faucet with hose attached and sprayed your bottom and wiped with your hand.

Apparently offering one's left hand in a handshake or eating with that hand was a cultural taboo. I can understand why.

I also wondered why everyone male or female wore garments that resembled dresses in that they were open on the bottom. After observing people squatting down wherever they felt like to relieve themselves I understood.

Amazing how the method one uses to go to the bathroom can influence the dress and customs of a people.

Did I mention how bad the flies were in the country?

[godfry n. glad]

Originally Posted by dantonac

What do they do after they go #2 in China? I recall in Saudi Arabia they just had holes in the floor (porcelain, I believe). You did you business and then turned on a faucet with hose attached and sprayed your bottom and wiped with your hand.

Y'know... I never asked. I never saw any set-up that would allow for hosing anything down, although buckets of water were often present as a flush mechanism. Yes, "Asian toilets" are porcelin holes in the floor with clear foot-placement indicators. Trying to hit the hole on a jostling train is a real challenge for those not used to using Asian squat toilets. Also, I'd note that such toilets did not have the same effect on clothing that you mention. In fact, in central Asia, women's garments tend to be a longish dress with lightweight trousers underneath. In China, trousers tend to be the prevalent unisex dress and the squat toilet prevails.

On occasion, I'd find remnants of a roll of toilet paper, but it was rare. I rather assumed that the tp protocol prevailed, but wasn't provided. In Samarqand, I ran into a situation which I'd never seen before, but others tell me can be quite common in developing nations. My hotel room had a nice, clean western-style toilet, but there was a sign clearly stating that I was not to place the soiled toilet paper into the toilet, but in the basket next to the toilet. That hotel, of course, is where I was hit with traveller's diarrhea.

I also noted in a reading that often westerners attempting to gain entrance into the closed Tibet of the 18th and 19th century by dressing as locals and dying their skin and hair to look native would often give themselves away by urinating standing up. This evidently is NOT the Asian custom; they squat to urinate...or used to.

We oughta have Adora over here... She's into this cultural stuff, right?

godfry

[viscousmemories]

Originally Posted by godfry n. glad

The most amusing to me though, is those east coast types (and some foreigners) who show up in points west, like my hometown, and expect to see log cabins, covered wagons, outhouses, and Injuns. Like westerners somehow got caught in the late 19th century.

I kinda did that. When I joined the Army in 1987, I expected there to be dances at the Officers Club where the women would line up against the wall and we'd get to go through and pick one out to dance with, etc. Just like in the movies. Similarly, I expected W. Germany to be very much like I had seen it in all those old WWII movies. I was very surprised at how much it resembled America, actually, both the natural and manmade aspects.

Oh, and I saw one of them "shit holes" in a small cafe in Paris.

[godfry n. glad]

Originally Posted by LadyShea

I have actually had someone say to me "Where do all these workers live? Are there residential neighborhoods in Las Vegas?" No, we all live in the casinos

Hmmm... And I just assumed they lived in all those excess hotel rooms.

godfry

[BigBlue2]

Originally Posted by livius drusus

So how about y'all? Have you encountered any eyebrow-raising ignorance from tourists? Have you stepped in any yourself?

I've found that a lot of tourists, especially from Europe, have no idea about the sheer geographical size of Australia. It's the sixth-largest country on earth - slightly smaller than the 48 contiguous US States. The tourist comes here with notions of visiting Bondi Beach, Ayers Rock (distance from Bondi Beach - 2200 kms at a very rough estimate), Kakadu National Park (distance from Ayers rock - 1200 kms, again at a very rough estimate) and the Great Barrier Reef (distance from Kakadu - 1600 kms, again at a ballpark guess) all within a day or two. Sorry, ain't gonna happen. Not even the most efficient Japanese tour group can pull that off. Americans and Canadians are more used to vast distances, but they have their own misconceptions about us.

[BigBlue2]

Originally Posted by livius drusus

Oh, that one is horrendous. I often wonder if some of those people later complain about how the locals should speak English just on principle.

Of course they'll complain, and rightly so. After all, if speaking English was good enough for Jebus, it should be good enough for them foreigners.

[JoeP]

Originally Posted by godfry n. glad

In Samarqand, I ran into a situation which I'd never seen before, but others tell me can be quite common in developing nations. My hotel room had a nice, clean western-style toilet, but there was a sign clearly stating that I was not to place the soiled toilet paper into the toilet, but in the basket next to the toilet.

I've found that in Turkey. It's not a cultural thing but a plumbing thing (ok, obviously the plumbing is designed for the cultural habits of using water not paper). Either they use septic tanks or they have narrow sewers, and tp blocks them up.

I've heard that some Turks/Arabs/etc think using paper is disgusting - how can you possibly get clean compared to using water?

[HelenM]

Originally Posted by livius drusus

One distant cousin actually packed a suitcase with rolls of toilet paper because her travel agent (believe it or not) had told her Italians only had wax paper.

That horrible wax-paper like tp used to be standard fare in English public toilets. I don't know whether it still is.

Oh, and tea bags. She brought a crate of fucking teabags. No idea what that was about.

We used to bring back boxes tea bags from visits to England and have my brothers/father mail them to us until a year or two ago when my local grocery store set up a 'British imports' stand that sells, among other things, PG Tips, which is even the same brand I used to have mailed. Liptons tastes quite different - it's a significantly different blend.

Helen

[livius drusus]

Originally Posted by godfry n. glad

I had acquaintances who'd recently returned from China. It was reinforced by the group leader on the tour, after arrival. It's particularly advised if you're riding the trains.

Advice from people in the trenches, iow. Why my cousins didn't think to ask us, I don't know.

What's ironic is the folks who assume nobody speaks English are the same folks who seem to think that every merchant should understand _their_ English. And then, when it's obvious the specific shop-keeper doesn't speak English, they repeat their request, in English, slower and louder. Like that will make a difference (and here, I must admit, I am guilty...I try to catch myself before I get too far along, but I've fallen into the "slower and louder makes for better understanding" pit).

The slower always made sense to me - people who don't speak a language might know a few words and be able to to work with you if you pronounce every word carefully - but the louder thing is just weird. I suppose slower and louder just seem to go together; I don't think any of us who have done this necessarily made a conscious choice to bellow.

I've found that hand signals often are helpful, but they, too, can be frought with cultural misunderstandings. Like that common American/English hand sign that, to us, means everything is a-okay (thumb and forefinger tips together forming a circle, with the other three fingers straight up) is considered obscene in some cultural milieus, as is the ol' thumbs up (don't ask me which ones).

Hand signals can get you suprisingly far (although as you say there's always the danger that it'll get you far via swift kick in the ass). In Italy you can always get by with a smattering of vocabulary and animated hands.

[livius drusus]

Originally Posted by BigBlue2

I've found that a lot of tourists, especially from Europe, have no idea about the sheer geographical size of Australia. It's the sixth-largest country on earth - slightly smaller than the 48 contiguous US States. The tourist comes here with notions of visiting Bondi Beach, Ayers Rock (distance from Bondi Beach - 2200 kms at a very rough estimate), Kakadu National Park (distance from Ayers rock - 1200 kms, again at a very rough estimate) and the Great Barrier Reef (distance from Kakadu - 1600 kms, again at a ballpark guess) all within a day or two. Sorry, ain't gonna happen. Not even the most efficient Japanese tour group can pull that off. Americans and Canadians are more used to vast distances, but they have their own misconceptions about us.

That's really interesting, BB2. I can see how someone from Europe might have difficulty envisioning the scale of Australian travel, just because countries in Europe are just so close to each other. OTOH, the US is similarly large, and I don't recall ever hearing a European plan an around the States in 5 days tour.

Maybe it's just a matter of popularization: the whole manifest destiny/spanning sea to shining sea thing is part of the US mythos. I don't have the same sense of Australia, although I'll go ahead and admit up front right now that most of what I know about Australia comes from my 3rd grade teacher who delighted us with tales of her homeland for a year.

What are some of the North American misconceptions about Australia that you've encountered?

[livius drusus]

Originally Posted by HelenM

That horrible wax-paper like tp used to be standard fare in English public toilets. I don't know whether it still is.

Public toilets as in freestanding in the street toilets or public as in restaurant toilets? Because the street toilets in Rome aren't toilets at all but rather stalls surrounding holes in the street next to the Tiber, so no tp at all there. (They're called Vespasiani after the emperor who allegedly invented them.)

We used to bring back boxes tea bags from visits to England and have my brothers/father mail them to us until a year or two ago when my local grocery store set up a 'British imports' stand that sells, among other things, PG Tips, which is even the same brand I used to have mailed. Liptons tastes quite different - it's a significantly different blend.

We used to bring back chunky peanut butter and Marshmallow Fluff from visits to Connecticut (fluffernutter sandwiches were worth their weight in platinum on the elementary school black market), but I never brought foodstuffs of any kind with me on a short trip away from my home bases. I mean, worst case scenario my cousins would have had to live without their preferred tea for a week.

[godfry n. glad]

Originally Posted by livius drusus

That's really interesting, BB2. I can see how someone from Europe might have difficulty envisioning the scale of Australian travel, just because countries in Europe are just so close to each other. OTOH, the US is similarly large, and I don't recall ever hearing a European plan an around the States in 5 days tour.

Maybe it's just a matter of popularization: the whole manifest destiny/spanning sea to shining sea thing is part of the US mythos. I don't have the same sense of Australia, although I'll go ahead and admit up front right now that most of what I know about Australia comes from my 3rd grade teacher who delighted us with tales of her homeland for a year.

Well... I dunno about that. I've run into a fair number of alien visitors who think that it's a short drive from Portland to San Francisco, or even Los Angeles, when, in reality, it's the better part of two days to get to SF and a gruelling drive on to LA. Seattle, of course, is just 3 hours north by auto.

What are some of the North American misconceptions about Australia that you've encountered?

This I'd be interested to hear as well. I've known for quite some time that Americans must be amongst the most geographically ignorant people on the face of the planet. (I taught secondary school and found the level of ignorance appallingly high amongst 16-18 y.o. Americans, I doubt if it improves much after that.) The Australians with whom I travelled through Asia regaled me with stories of their contacts with Americans....none of them very flattering.

Also...Aussies, Kiwis and Europeans all know far more about American politics than the typical American tourist.

godfry

[HelenM]

Originally Posted by livius drusus

Public toilets as in freestanding in the street toilets or public as in restaurant toilets? Because the street toilets in Rome aren't toilets at all but rather stalls surrounding holes in the street next to the Tiber, so no tp at all there. (They're called Vespasiani after the emperor who allegedly invented them.)

I meant, freestanding, as in, not attached to a restaurant or anything else. They have toilets, not just holes in the ground, but you sometimes have to put a coin in the door to use them (hence the English expression 'to spend a penny', if you've heard that one).

I think the schools I went to as a child might have had the wax paper stuff too, but that's a while ago now - I couldn't be certain.

We used to bring back chunky peanut butter and Marshmallow Fluff from visits to Connecticut (fluffernutter sandwiches were worth their weight in platinum on the elementary school black market), but I never brought foodstuffs of any kind with me on a short trip away from my home bases. I mean, worst case scenario my cousins would have had to live without their preferred tea for a week.

I take your point, but people do get very attached to their [non-alcoholic] drink of choice, especially the one with which they start the day.

Helen

[godfry n. glad]

Originally Posted by HelenM

I meant, freestanding, as in, not attached to a restaurant or anything else. They have toilets, not just holes in the ground, but you sometimes have to put a coin in the door to use them (hence the English expression 'to spend a penny', if you've heard that one).

When my wife and I were in the British Isles, the cost to use the public toilets was two pence. We speculated that that's where the expression, "I have to pee (I have two p)" originated...

I take your point, but people do get very attached to their [non-alcoholic] drink of choice, especially the one with which they start the day.

Helen

Oh yeah...

My wife made sure when we travelled to Britain that she took her portable water boiler, cone, filters and her favorite coffee. I really didn't understand, particularly in Belgium and the Netherlands, where Deuwe Egbert was in copious supply, but once we arrived in England...well, she'd been there before. At the time, an Englishman's idea of a cuppa joe was Sanka. Starbucks has probably taken over by now.

godfry