Why did he let Van Gogh

[verax-acis]

Why did he let Van Gogh

There was once a man named Libevere who did a great favor for an art collector. The art collector was so grateful for the favor that he gave Libevere a painting out of his own collection. The painting was beautiful full of life and color and it pleased Libevere very much. Libevere loved the painting and hung it up in the middle of his living room wall for all to see. Libevere took great pleasure in his painting night and day.
Now Libevere had a neighbor whose name was Shatite who came by frequently to visit and discuss everything from politics to philosophy. Shatite was a cynical man who loved nothing more than his own opinion so when he saw how much Libevere liked his new painting he naturally took the opposite position. But unlike other times when Libevere listened to Shatite and took his advice, in this matter Libevere retained his positive viewpoint of his new found art and loved it still. Shatite did not take the rejection well and resented the painting for overriding his point of view. He hated the painting for existing feeling envy and jealousy over the paintings position in Libevere’s life.
“Maybe if I had the painting I could reestablish my position of influence and regard.” Shatite thought, but he really didn’t like the painting because the colors didn’t match anything in his house.
“I know…I will convince Libevere to discard it and take one of my paintings instead. Then he will again listen to me and I will have his ear in all things.”
So Shatite began to berate the painting. “Its ugly. The colors are ridiculous and farfetched. It lacks realism and style.” Shatite remarked but Libevere continued loving it still. But Shatite was persistent, every day railing and insulting the painting and his comments began to ware Libevere down. “You should take one of my paintings.” Shatite suggested. “It’s much newer than yours, stylish and intellectually appealing. Remove the nonsense you have on your wall and replace it with one of my own from my own home.” So Libevere considered the suggestion but was still unsure because his painting was beautiful, and although Shatite’s painting was stylish it lacked life and color. Frustrated that all his attempts had failed Shatite tried one last trick.
“Your painting is a fake. It’s a print and I can tell. I know these things because I study. If you leave it on your wall someone will recognize it as a fake and mock you for it.”
Now this revelation disturbed Libevere greatly and he gave the matter much thought. He finally concluded that Shatite was right and although yes the painting was pretty and full of life it would cause him disgrace if anyone found out it was a fake. So he removed the painting off his wall and replaced it with Shatite’s painting. Then he burned the beautiful painting in the fire place so no one would ever know he once esteemed a fake.
But then one day the art collector paid Libevere a visit to see how he was doing and to check in on the painting. When he arrived and asked about the painting Libevere responded. “You sir should be ashamed of yourself. That painting you gave me was a fake and if I was ever found out I would have suffered humiliation and disgrace. So I took the fake and burned it in the fireplace and replaced it with a painting that is not only authentic, it’s new, stylish and intellectually appealing. ” In mortified shock the art collector responded “The painting you have on your wall sir is the fake and a cheep one at that. I surely know for I am an art collector and have made art my life. And the painting you burned was not only authentic; it was a Van Gogh, a priceless one of a kind.” So with terrible sadness and shame Libevere lived out the rest of his life knowing he had burned and irreplaceable masterpiece.

[Malloch]

I'm cringing. Van Gogh is my favorite painter and damn that hurts. Not the point I know, but still.

[ChuckF]

What is this supposed to mean? I can't find anything to indicate this actually happened, so what's the point?

[Crumb]

[quiet bear]

Actually, even though it's spelled 'Van Gogh', it's pronounced 'Van Gock'. My senior art teacher told us that when I was in high school.

[J3bus]

Tbh, someone did this story in my GCSE drama group, or something along the lines of it.

If it's real, ahwell, there's plenty more paintings out there.

[verax-acis]

I used to wonder why JESUS talked in parables. I know the disciples asked him and he gave an answer but I didn’t understand the answer.


Mathew 13 10-15
And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables? He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given. For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath. Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand. And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive: For this people's heart is waxed gross, and [their] ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with [their] eyes, and hear with [their] ears, and should understand with [their] heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

I don’t know if I understand it now, but I think I understand it better than I did.


In the past I thought “If only JESUS could find the right argument then they would all have to believe.” I know this is a strange thought being that I believed JESUS was the son of GOD and therefore if there existed such an argument JESUS would have surely known it, but still the thought continued in one form or another throughout my life. It wasn’t until I began to converse on the internet that I began to understand why he talked in parables.

As a default many people exist in a critical state of mind meaning they ,consciously or unconsciously, are always trying to figure out where someone is wrong. Even now there are people reading this eagerly trying to figure out where I have gone wrong instead of trying to understand where I’m coming from. This aggressively defensive mentality renders understanding nearly impossible. What this means is when a person is trying to get a point across it nearly always will fail when the target audience does not want to learn or see something from a different perspective. When they remain in this critical mentality there is little you can say that will actually sink in. You could say “the sun is yellow” and their mind scrambles to all the possibilities and angles to prove you wrong. Their mentality is against you from the start. They want you to be wrong or find an argument against what you are saying. It’s the WANT that’s important. They WANT you to be wrong. They DON’T WANT to hear what you’re saying. Parables are a practical option one can use to separate the people who WANT to listen or understand what you are saying from the people who DON’T WANT to listen. Figuring out what you mean by the parable takes too much effort on the part of the people who DON’T WANT to understand what you are saying but the people who DO WANT to understand what you are saying will take the time and effort to figure it out. To the ones who don’t care the parable remains a benign story that most will not find offensive. To the ones who do care the parable sinks in deeper and more meaningful than plainly stating a particular point. This is why JESUS used parables and is just another example of why we call him LORD.

[Javaman]

So inability to be clearly understood is a sign of divinity? Weird. I would have thought Yeshua would have wanted people to start caring, not just take the already caring to another level. Again, weird. You ever figure out our god-prayer-order?

[Watser?]

Sheesh, I only now understand the title to this thread

It only works if you TOTALLY MISPRONOUNCE the name Van Gogh

ETA: Oh, I see qb has already pointed this out.

[Dingfod]

I know. We 'mericans.

[verax-acis]

Originally Posted by Javaman

So inability to be clearly understood is a sign of divinity? Weird. I would have thought Yeshua would have wanted people to start caring, not just take the already caring to another level. Again, weird. You ever figure out our god-prayer-order?

I don't really understand what you mean by GOD order. Please explain.

[yguy]

Originally Posted by Javaman

So inability to be clearly understood is a sign of divinity? Weird. I would have thought Yeshua would have wanted people to start caring, not just take the already caring to another level.

That's why He spoke in parables. They were a way to get those whose level of understanding did not match that of the apostles to stop and wonder what He was getting at, even if it took years for the penny to drop.

[Javaman]

Originally Posted by verax-acis

I don't really understand what you mean by GOD order. Please explain.

Click the link.

[Javaman]

Originally Posted by yguy

That's why He spoke in parables. They were a way to get those whose level of understanding did not match that of the apostles to stop and wonder what He was getting at, even if it took years for the penny to drop.

Again, weird. Why? If, in those years, some of those people died, most Christian religions would have them tortured forever. I still don't understand why he wouldn't be blunt when he was already more than blunt with performing miracles. The dichotomy is pretty obvious here.

[SharonDee]

Originally Posted by verax-acis

I don't really understand what you mean ...

Javaman is a god!

[yguy]

Originally Posted by Javaman

Again, weird. Why?

Why what?

If, in those years, some of those people died, most Christian religions would have them tortured forever.

I don't know why the pronouncements of any "Christian religion" are germane here.

I still don't understand why he wouldn't be blunt when he was already more than blunt with performing miracles. The dichotomy is pretty obvious here.

I don't understand the objection. I have no idea what is particularly "blunt" about performing miracles.

I think a better question is why nobody asked Him what He meant. That they did not shows that they were not yet ready for what was concealed within those parables; but having heard and remembered, some would ponder it later and understand.

[quiet bear]

yguy, do you always play the obtuse angle, in every thread? Seems that way.

[Dingfod]

He's a Contrary.



He says "goodbye" for "hello",
"yes" for "no",...



...walks through bushes
instead of on trails,...



...and washes with dirt
and dries with water.

[Javaman]

Mmmm.... LBM reference. Very nice.

[Javaman]

Originally Posted by quiet bear

yguy, do you always play the obtuse angle, in every thread? Seems that way.

This one seems especially egregious. He can't be that thick. Really.

[yguy]

Originally Posted by Javaman

This one seems especially egregious. He can't be that thick. Really.

You may rest assured that I find your line of inquiry utterly incomprehensible. You might as well have asked me why piglets don't hatch from chicken eggs, for all the sense you're making to me.

[Javaman]

Whatever. If I get time and decide you are being genuine, I might try to reword what I wrote. I have family in town right now so maybe somebody else will chime in to assist.