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  #26  
Old 09-30-2009, 04:17 PM
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Default Re: Roman Polanski Arrested

Quote:
Originally Posted by Legs View Post
Whoopi says it wasn't 'rape rape'
I love the way she lectures the others on the need to be precise in that tape, all the while proving she has no idea what she is talking about or even what she herself is saying.
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Old 09-30-2009, 04:48 PM
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Default Re: Roman Polanski Arrested

I think she was talking about his charge... it was sex with a minor, not rape-rape. (as she puts it)
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  #28  
Old 09-30-2009, 04:53 PM
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Default Re: Roman Polanski Arrested

I think your clarification is vastly more precise than her own efforts on the subject.
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  #29  
Old 09-30-2009, 05:02 PM
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Default Re: Roman Polanski Arrested

That was just the bullshit plea bargain anyway. I doubt Whoopi, Woody or the rest of the smug, entitled parade have troubled themselves to find out what happened from the victim's perspective before proclaiming to "know" what happened.

Props to Luc Besson for not putting his friendship with Polanski above the law.
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  #30  
Old 09-30-2009, 05:11 PM
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Default Re: Roman Polanski Arrested

In other news in an online poll by de Volkskrant only 41% feel he was the victim of an American witch hunt.
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  #31  
Old 09-30-2009, 05:34 PM
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Default Re: Roman Polanski Arrested

I think CT meant to put this here.
Quote:
Originally Posted by California Tanker View Post
I am vaguely reminded of the Tookie Williams incident.

The man killed people in cold blood, but the calls for clemency came because he had written a couple of children's books whilst on death row.

What does it matter what he did after the crime? If he's guilty of it, he should be punished for it. It's not as if people who do great things after doing nothing wrong get any particular extra credit for it.

NTM
It doesn't really remind me of Tookie Williams tho. At least some of the people were simply calling for his sentence to be commuted to life in prison, which isn't the same as "not punishing him for it," as some of the people seem to be calling for with Roman Polanski. I don't support the death penalty generally, so that would've been what I would've said about Tookie Williams also.
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  #32  
Old 09-30-2009, 06:23 PM
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Default Re: Roman Polanski Arrested

Whoopi clarified:

"It was rape, but it wasn't rape."

Next time we're looking for the argument that no moral absolutes exist, there it is, I guess.
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  #33  
Old 09-30-2009, 06:52 PM
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Default Re: Roman Polanski Arrested

Quote:
Originally Posted by erimir View Post
I think CT meant to put this here.
Thank you.

Quote:
At least some of the people were simply calling for his sentence to be commuted to life in prison, which isn't the same as "not punishing him for it," as some of the people seem to be calling for with Roman Polanski. I don't support the death penalty generally, so that would've been what I would've said about Tookie Williams also.
I am distinguishing between the various protestors who wished the sentence commuted due to a moral objection to the death penalty and those who wanted the sentence commuted because he did great things in life afterwards.

NTM
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  #34  
Old 09-30-2009, 08:03 PM
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Default Re: Roman Polanski Arrested

After outcry, France changes tone on Roman Polanski case

France's government changed its tone on Wednesday on the arrest of Roman Polanski for having sex with a 13-year-old girl, describing the charges as serious after initially rushing to the film director's defense.

Story
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  #35  
Old 09-30-2009, 08:08 PM
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Default Re: Roman Polanski Arrested

Quote:
Originally Posted by livius drusus View Post
I doubt Whoopi, Woody or the rest of the smug, entitled parade have troubled themselves to find out what happened from the victim's perspective before proclaiming to "know" what happened.
It's interesting, isn't it, how celebrity give themselves grace as if they were the clergy. I suppose they think, like the clergy seems to, that they are above the law, for they have been chosen by God, or something, to be His divine and glorious vessels of all things fabulous. And that young maidens are playthings, delivered with all the right drugs, because that's what genius should have if they wish it. So the rape isn't rape, because, well, our beloved maestro has needs. He deserved that young honey, because she was so fresh and he is so magnificent. Oh that silly girl! Let him go, we love his work.

*puke*
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  #36  
Old 09-30-2009, 08:32 PM
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Default Re: Roman Polanski Arrested

I don't think it's necessarily just a celebrity sense of entitlement gone amok. A lot of the "little people" seem to want to overlook such things as long as they admire the person's work sufficiently. I had a friend who loved Woody Allen's work so much that he got severely agitated whenever someone mentioned he might have done something wrong.* "Why can't everybody just leave the man alone?" he wailed. It's not that he would consider the same actions to be perfectly justified in any situation. He just had spent so much emotional capital loving the work that he couldn't bring himself to revise his opinion of the man behind the work. I think that might be part of what's going on here.

However, it IS rather ridiculous that they think such a joint statement should have the impact they seemed to expect. There's definitely an entitlement issue going on in that sense at least. Who the fuck cares what a bunch of filmmakers think about a criminal case? Let them file an amicus brief if they have something useful to say about it (they don't).



*I realize Soon-Yi was of legal age, but it was still creepy as fuck, not to mention a plain old abuse of trust. He's an ass. A talented ass, but an ass nonetheless.
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  #37  
Old 09-30-2009, 09:10 PM
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Default Re: Roman Polanski Arrested

Yeah, I don't think they see their ilk as entitled to fuck girls against their will. The sense of entitlement comes in with their appeal-to-talent/friendship justifications for his flouting the law.
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  #38  
Old 09-30-2009, 09:20 PM
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Default Re: Roman Polanski Arrested

True. I had a momentary burst of hyperbole, which took me quite by surprise as I've never been one to greatly inflate or overstate anything, ever. Uh-uh. Not me. :innocent2:


I love their work, but god they're wankers.
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  #39  
Old 10-01-2009, 01:44 AM
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Default Re: Roman Polanski Arrested

Quote:
Originally Posted by California Tanker
I am vaguely reminded of the Tookie Williams incident.

The man killed people in cold blood, but the calls for clemency came because he had written a couple of children's books whilst on death row.
From Wikipedia:

Quote:
After being released from solitary confinement, Williams gained worldwide attention and praise for his work in prison. He wrote several children's books advocating non-violence and alternatives to gangs, an autobiography Blue Rage, Black Redemption, public service announcements, and Redemption: The Stan Tookie Williams Story, a Hollywood movie which honored him.

In 1997, Williams wrote and posted on his website an apology for his role in creating the Crips.[8] In 2004, he helped broker a peace agreement, called the Tookie Protocol For Peace, for what had been one of the deadliest and most infamous gang wars in the country, between the Bloods and the Crips, in both the state of California and the city of Newark, New Jersey. On the nomination of William A. Harrison, a minister from West Monroe, Louisiana, Williams received a letter from U.S. President George W. Bush commending him for his social activism, one of some 267,000 "Call To Service Awards" that were sent out.
But of course you already knew it was more than just having "written a couple of children's books".
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  #40  
Old 10-01-2009, 09:07 PM
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Default Re: Roman Polanski Arrested

Ok, this isn't entirely on topic but it hits on a pet peeve. I have always hated the whole "middle American values" concept, sometimes expressed as "small town values" or some other incredibly condescending implication that people who live in small towns in the middle of the country are, by nature, morally superior to those who live on either coast or in large cities. I think it's a gentle bigotry that usually conceals some other, more brutal bigotry, be it homophobia or religious intolerance. Terms like "Hollywood" or "San Francisco values" as metonyms for some set of values, presumably opposite those of "small town" or "middle American" values and therefore bad, is equally stupid and useless. At least "Hollywood" only paints a single industry, and frankly I'm not sure that it isn't a little bit justified in this case as an appalling number of celebrities seem to think that Polanski is some kind of victim here.

So I was a little surprised when the LA Times used both of them. Like only someone with the values of middle America would think that Polanski should have his ass hauled back to an American courtroom. Only people with a moral sensibility rooted in a rural, agrarian tradition could think that this guy who fucked a 13 year old and then fled the country to avoid doing time for it should have to face up to it. Anybody who doesn't have those values - and all of the implicit baggage that comes with the term - must be on the side of letting this fugitive rapist go free.
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  #41  
Old 10-01-2009, 09:13 PM
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Default Re: Roman Polanski Arrested

:yeahthat:

On another note Mr. Polanski was mentioned in my class today. Which doesn't seem unusual until one considers the class is British Lit. And we were reading Chaucer.

* Demimonde wants an order of wtf to go with that lecture and wash it down with a tall glass of incredulous.
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  #42  
Old 10-01-2009, 09:20 PM
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Default Re: Roman Polanski Arrested

If it involved Polanski kissing Alison's hairy ass then I'm all for it.
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  #43  
Old 10-01-2009, 10:03 PM
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Default Re: Roman Polanski Arrested

:lol: Nope sadly it was the Pardoner, so it was really completely off the mark. Though I like my analysis that the Pardoner was the medieval equivalent to a lawyer joke.
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  #44  
Old 10-02-2009, 08:16 AM
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Default Re: Roman Polanski Arrested

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChuckF View Post
Ok, this isn't entirely on topic but it hits on a pet peeve. I have always hated the whole "middle American values" concept, sometimes expressed as "small town values" or some other incredibly condescending implication that people who live in small towns in the middle of the country are, by nature, morally superior to those who live on either coast or in large cities. I think it's a gentle bigotry that usually conceals some other, more brutal bigotry, be it homophobia or religious intolerance. Terms like "Hollywood" or "San Francisco values" as metonyms for some set of values, presumably opposite those of "small town" or "middle American" values and therefore bad, is equally stupid and useless. At least "Hollywood" only paints a single industry, and frankly I'm not sure that it isn't a little bit justified in this case as an appalling number of celebrities seem to think that Polanski is some kind of victim here.

So I was a little surprised when the LA Times used both of them. Like only someone with the values of middle America would think that Polanski should have his ass hauled back to an American courtroom. Only people with a moral sensibility rooted in a rural, agrarian tradition could think that this guy who fucked a 13 year old and then fled the country to avoid doing time for it should have to face up to it. Anybody who doesn't have those values - and all of the implicit baggage that comes with the term - must be on the side of letting this fugitive rapist go free.
Use to be true of small town folk, but not since MTV.
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  #45  
Old 10-04-2009, 01:28 PM
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Default Re: Roman Polanski Arrested

I haven't read Newsweek for years due to its being utter crap, but this headline impressed me (and the article isn't bad either):

Roman Polanski Raped a Child: A Primer
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  #46  
Old 10-04-2009, 01:39 PM
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Default Re: Roman Polanski Arrested

In 1977, this guy raped an adult woman, fled to France, and has still not been brought to justice.

Whatever Happened To ...? Case of rapist who fled to France unresolved | Metro - cleveland.com - cleveland.com
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  #47  
Old 10-04-2009, 09:25 PM
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Default Re: Roman Polanski Arrested

So I am assuming that France won't extradite the US because we have the death penalty.
Anyone know?
I suck at looking up international legal issues.

This is all I found on wiki for reasons states don't extradite "Possibility of certain forms of punishment - some countries refuse extradition on grounds that the person, if extradited, may receive capital punishment or face torture. A few go as far as to cover all punishments that they themselves would not administer."
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Old 10-04-2009, 10:45 PM
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Default Re: Roman Polanski Arrested

I recommend putting pedophiles in prison for life, not allowing them to live 'lifestyles of the rich and famous'.


He Fucking drugged a 13 year old and Fucked her.


What the Fuck is wrong with people?
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  #49  
Old 10-05-2009, 04:18 AM
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Default Re: Roman Polanski Arrested

Quote:
Originally Posted by JEROME DA GNOME View Post
I recommend putting pedophiles in prison for life, not allowing them to live 'lifestyles of the rich and famous'.


He Fucking drugged a 13 year old and Fucked her.


What the Fuck is wrong with people?
That's a pretty controversial position to hold...:rolleye2:
Sounds like you're not so much against the rape of a minor but rather resent that he is also wealthy. Why do you resent rich rapists more than poor ones? I blame Obama for all of this, of course. Do we know where he was when this occurred? Also where was Bill Ayers and Obama's commie grandpa? I think it is high time they spoke up and cleared the air.
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  #50  
Old 10-05-2009, 04:19 AM
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Default Re: Roman Polanski Arrested

Quote:
Originally Posted by Qingdai View Post
So I am assuming that France won't extradite the US because we have the death penalty.
Anyone know?
I suck at looking up international legal issues.

This is all I found on wiki for reasons states don't extradite "Possibility of certain forms of punishment - some countries refuse extradition on grounds that the person, if extradited, may receive capital punishment or face torture. A few go as far as to cover all punishments that they themselves would not administer."
I don't think that the death penalty has anything to do with this case, as the crime for which he was convicted does not carry the death penalty. It is much more likely that France has refused extradition because 1.) Polanski is a French citizen and 2) the offense for which he was convicted is not an extraditable offense under French law.

According to the extradition treaty between the US and France:
Quote:
Article 2(1) defines extraditable offenses as acts punished under the laws of both States by deprivation of liberty for a maximum of at least one year, or by a more severe penalty.
If, under French law, having sex with a 13 year old does not carry a penalty of at least a one year, then it would not be an extraditable offense. That, at least, is how I read it.

With regard to the citizenship issue, according to the treaty:
Quote:
Article 3(1) declares that neither State has an obligation to extradite its own nationals, but the executive authority of the United States shall have the discretion to do so. The nationality of the person sought shall be the nationality of the person at the time the offense was committed.
Article 3(2) requires a State that refuses an extradition request solely on the basis of the nationality of the person sought to submit the case to its authorities for prosecution, if so requested by the Requesting State.
Since France has not put Polanski on trial I am going to assume that either the US has not requested that France do so, or France has declined to do so on the grounds that the crime to which Polanski pled guilty in the US is not a criminal act under French law.

ETA:
Some additional research turns up this from Wikipedia

Quote:
The age of consent in France is 15, as specified by Article 227-25, which reads: "The commission without violence, constraint, threat or surprise of a sexual offence by an adult on the person of a child under fifteen years of age is punished by five years' imprisonment and a fine of 75,000."
So, it looks like having sex with 13 year old is illegal in France and meets the requirements for being an extraditable offense. That being the case, I fail understand why Polanski had not already been extradited from France. Is it possible that the prosecutors in California simply had not even bothered trying to do so since the current treaty went into effect?
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Last edited by Angakuk; 10-05-2009 at 04:47 AM.
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