Pittsburgh Stormfronter spin-off thread

[nvexio]

Originally Posted by mickthinks

Colour me green.

[chunksmediocrites]

[chunksmediocrites]

Just picked it up from the library yesterday, I manage a production crew at a bakery and my lead under me has Asperger's. Mentions that the 2007 estimate is "1 in 150 has Asperger's or some other autistic spectrum disorder".

[seebs]

Yup, right around 1/150. Maybe 190, maybe 120, but right around there.

Aspies can be pretty awesome to work with, or pretty hellish, depends on a lot of things. One of those things is how much you've learned about dealing with them.

[chunksmediocrites]

Originally Posted by seebs

Yup, right around 1/150. Maybe 190, maybe 120, but right around there.

Aspies can be pretty awesome to work with, or pretty hellish, depends on a lot of things. One of those things is how much you've learned about dealing with them.

It is a mixed bag- he is very good at the mechanics and general strategies of the job, but not so good at the communication or management skills, which he is aware of and working on. Tends to be too independent/ proactive which can be rough when he's supposed to work in the chain of command and not unilaterally decide to rearrange the mix room, for example. He hates delegating tasks, and gives direction sometimes bluntly without considering the delivery impact. Also tends to compulsively follow up trains of thought immediately, which may not be the priority. His ability to model in his head the fermentation schedules of twenty different doughs on a 24-hour cycle and calculate the impact of moving any individual dough or three within that schedule is pretty amazing. He also shifts mental gears abruptly and has work tightly compartmentalized from time not at work; when he is done it is like a switch got thrown and he is usually out of the building and off the property in about 15 seconds.

Your comment before about people worrying about hurting your feelings when you had a hard time remembering other people were actually conscious (paraphrased, close I hope) sounds like the guy I work with- almost always directions or feedback given to him don't seem to trigger much of an ego response.

Part of why I want to read more on the subject is to be a more effective manager and have a better chance of recognizing what is more attributable to hurdles relating to Asperger's and what is more likely individual variance; in hopes of setting reasonable expectations for performance improvement, and learning how to utilize his strengths.

[seebs]

If you want to start a thread on it, I'd be happy to contribute tidbits from my own experience, both directly and working with other people with similar traits. I think it'd be a pretty valuable thing, and it's more interesting than arguing with brickwallthinks.

[chunksmediocrites]

I see you started one, thanks seebs.

[mickthinks]

Originally Posted by seebs

Thinking about it more, it really seems to me as though the flood of posts is functionally a distraction. New threads or new questions come up whenever someone's provided enough information on a previous thread or question to make it hard to preserve the illusion that there are genuine issues that haven't been looked at. As soon as people start looking at an issue, that issue is dropped in favor of a new issue they haven't looked at -- but then it can come back a month later as though no one ever talked about it.

Sorta like juggling!

This is misrepresentation in spades, seebs. I thought ASD people stuck meticulously to known facts.

ETA: Here's an example of a issue that has been dropped by you recently;

Originally Posted by seebs

By the way: The rudeness to the girl is patently obvious.

Patently obvious rudeness?

One of your many misrepresentations of me hangs off your assertion that I couldn't see what was obvious. Can I ask you to say whether you still stand by it?

Mick

[LadyShea]

It was flippant and sarcastic. He said "Yeah thanks" meaning "You pointed out something I am embarrassed/uncomfortable about, dammit". Note how the audience laughs right after he says "Yeah thanks"? Why do you think they all laughed at that moment?

[mickthinks]

Flippant it may have been, but it wasn't aimed at the questioner, and it therefore wasn't rudeness and there's no reason to suppose it made the girl cry. And note that neither she nor her parents have given credence to the suggestion.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by LadyShea

It was flippant and sarcastic. He said "Yeah thanks" meaning "You pointed out something I am embarrassed/uncomfortable about, dammit". Note how the audience laughs right after he says "Yeah thanks"? Why do you think they all laughed at that moment?

Why does anyone ever laugh? Either, a) they're a mob of some sort or b) they're afraid of vm.

[mickthinks]

Originally Posted by Adam

Why does anyone ever laugh? Either, a) they're a mob of some sort or b) they're afraid of vm.

OMG Mick has a valid point! Quick—Wheel the mob mockery machine out and bury it before anyone notices...

[LadyShea]

Originally Posted by mickthinks

Flippant it may have been, but it wasn't aimed at the questioner, and it therefore wasn't rudeness and there's no reason to suppose it made the girl cry. And note that neither she nor her parents have given credence to the suggestion.

It was aimed at the questioner because she asked the uncomfortable or embarrassing question. Who else could it have been aimed at?

Now, that the girl cried is, in my mind, not in the President's control. That doesn't make his sarcasm less inappropriate for the setting. Many people would have been hurt, embarrassed, or angry that he responded sarcastically and got a laugh at their expense...but a young girl will often respond to any of those three emotions with tears.

Perhaps if he had said "Don't be silly" instead of "Yeah thanks" you would see the rudeness?

[mickthinks]

Who else could it have been aimed at?
Himself?

Perhaps if he had said "Don't be silly" instead of "Yeah thanks" you would see the rudeness?
He didn't, and I see this as you mocking me instead of dealing with the point fairly and honestly, LS.

[LadyShea]

He was hostile towards himself for asking a question that made him uncomfortable? Huh?

[mickthinks]

You don't have to see it as hostile to anyone.

[LadyShea]

I was using a mild mocking to make a point. You think "Don't be silly" in an informal setting is an obvious insult, though most don't. Most think that Bush being flippant and sarcastic to a young girl in a serious setting is rude, and you don't.

What he did was an act of deflection and hostility. He used sarcasm in an answer to a serious question, in a serious setting, because he was angry at being put on the spot.

[mickthinks]

What he did was an act of deflection and hostility.
You refuse to see it as non-hostile and on that basis you infer that the hostility must have been aimed at the questioner. That's two assumptions that I read as prejudice in action, LS

[LadyShea]

I see no one else it could have been aimed at. Can you explain how one would aim that at oneself?

The fact that everyone present got the sarcasm, and laughed with him, indicates to me he was deflecting from himself and onto the questioner, not deprecating himself.

[LadyShea]

I interpret it as "Yeah thanks "

What would you fill in the brackets with?

[mickthinks]

I agree he would rather have not been asked the question. That doesn't mean his expression of regret must have been hostile or that the questioner must have been the target.

[LadyShea]

Not must have, but I am pretty sure it was, as are many others.

The young girl, Jessica, told the press "And [the President] said it was the first time anybody had asked him about [immigration] since it [death of his immigration reform proposal] happened."

To me this indicates that
A) It was a sore spot for him
B) He felt put on the spot or even "gotcha"d as this was the first time he had fielded a question about that issue
C) He automatically deflected, in this instance with sarcasm

This is a fairly common series of events, and can happen to anyone, not just Bush. I have done it myself. However, US Presidents should always think before they speak, especially in that type of setting.

That he was human and went into automatic defensive response mode; basically "kill the biting bug" or "deflect the approaching missile" may explain the incident, but it doesn't excuse it, in my opinion. It doesn't mean he wasn't rude or sarcastic or hostile, it merely means he probably did not intend to upset the girl with his defensive move.

[mickthinks]

I'm not seeing anything which looks like evidence for your ascription of hostility, LS. Bush was rueful and he is only human so he could have felt and expressed hostility, I agree. But I don't see anything that indicates that he did feel and show hostility.

[LadyShea]

The sarcastic response was a display of hostility in this instance, I am sure of it. He was pissed off that his proposal was killed and pissed off that someone brought up his failure and that's what the whole "Yeah thanks" was about.

"Yeah thanks" for bringing up that painful subject

I don't have any evidence beyond vast experience communicating with other humans and seeing similar scenarios played out, and even doing it myself. I can't imagine what would constitute hard evidence in the instance.

[mickthinks]

The sarcastic response was a display of hostility in this instance, I am sure of it.
I think that is your prejudice leading your judgment. I reckon there is no hostility to be seen in that clip.

... and even doing it myself.
You wouldn't have been hostile to the questioner if you had been in a similar position, so why assume Bush was?