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  #351  
Old 10-29-2019, 04:23 AM
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Default Re: Ultimate Cagefight MMXIX, Democratic Edition

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Originally Posted by SR71 View Post
What about tax returns we haven't seen yet, or Deutsche Bank loan info we haven't seen yet? How can we say there's nothing to them sight unseen? You can't reach conclusions based on evidence that's being concealed.
etc etc

How do we know they aren't hiding aliens in Area 51?
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  #352  
Old 10-29-2019, 09:46 AM
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Default Re: Ultimate Cagefight MMXIX, Democratic Edition

Life is too short, but. That is really too crap to even engage. Have fun.
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  #353  
Old 10-29-2019, 09:48 AM
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Default Re: Ultimate Cagefight MMXIX, Democratic Edition

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Originally Posted by erimir View Post
Matt Taibbi is trash. He made his name throwing colorful insults at deserving Wall Street targets, but he's been trash for a while. He's like davidm, so committed to the proposition that Hillary Clinton/the Democratic Party are awful and the only reason that the GOP won in 2016, that he must deny any evidence that suggests other factors were important, no matter how ludicrous his position becomes as more information comes out. He would rather defend Trump from impeachment than admit that not everything boils down to "Democrats suck."

Which is why at this point, he is effectively a Trump supporter.

For example, earlier this month he made the astoundingly idiotic argument that Democrats doing an impeachment inquiry is somehow similar to a military coup.

He starts off this piece about the impeachment inquiry by discussing an attempted coup in Russia under Gorbachev, because these situations are so similar.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Taibbi
My discomfort in the last few years, first with Russiagate and now with Ukrainegate and impeachment, stems from the belief that the people pushing hardest for Trump’s early removal are more dangerous than Trump. Many Americans don’t see this because they’re not used to waking up in a country where you’re not sure who the president will be by nightfall. They don’t understand that this predicament is worse than having a bad president.
Taibbi can protest that he doesn't support Trump, but when you're declaring him the lesser of two evils, it's a pretty minor distinction.

Trump's impeachment will not result in the overthrow of a regime or the reversal of the election. It will not install a Democrat in power, it will install Mike fucking Pence. It will not be a violent overthrow, nor can it be unilateral. Impeachment and removal can only happen with the cooperation of a significant minority of Republicans (almost 40% of GOP senators are required to convict). And you can be guaranteed that if Mike Pence is deemed too compromised to be president, the Republicans will never consent to remove him if it means Nancy Pelosi becomes president unless they think it's in their interests for Pelosi to become president (which they will not, since they have to win Republican primaries, where letting Nancy be president, even for a few lame duck months, would be a death sentence). Instead, they will insist that Pence be allowed to appoint a new, Republican VP before his removal or resignation. She will not and cannot unilaterally assume control.

There will be continuity, the GOP will remain in control and get to enjoy the fruit of the poisoned tree for the full four-year term, at a minimum. And that's not even talking about the cadres of right-wing crazies Trump has appointed to the courts and other long-term positions which means they'll reap the rewards of Trump's criminality and extremism for years and years to come.

When you're arguing that any accountability for Trump using constitutional mechanisms that require (in the current Congress) bipartisan cooperation and can only result in Trump's party controlling the executive branch, when you're arguing that's effectively a coup... you are a Trump supporter.
Or when you can't distinguish the difference between bank loans, tax returns and aliens. MAGA!
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  #354  
Old 10-29-2019, 06:28 PM
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Default Re: Ultimate Cagefight MMXIX, Democratic Edition

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Life is too short, but. That is really too crap to even engage. Have fun.

Sorry to hurt your feelies, but that's just the classic conspiracy crap that "Russiagate" is made of. Appeals to nonexistent hypothetical future evidence until the bubble bursts and goalposts are shifted again.


What has happened to the Manchurian candidate remotely controlled by the Kremlin and his band of traitors? I'm still waiting for that firing squad. Rrrussian Scum!
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  #355  
Old 10-29-2019, 06:39 PM
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Default Re: Ultimate Cagefight MMXIX, Democratic Edition

It's not an all-or-nothing thing. You don't have to be a Manchurian Candidate to be a useful idiot. There's plenty of existent, non-hypothetical evidence of that.
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  #356  
Old 10-29-2019, 06:46 PM
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Default Re: Ultimate Cagefight MMXIX, Democratic Edition

No, that "useful idiot" thing is great. It's the condescending, passive-aggressive version.
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  #357  
Old 10-29-2019, 08:40 PM
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Default Re: Ultimate Cagefight MMXIX, Democratic Edition

Snort. Yes, that's the condescending opinion. :rolleyes:
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  #358  
Old 10-29-2019, 10:49 PM
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Default Re: Ultimate Cagefight MMXIX, Democratic Edition

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What has happened to the Manchurian candidate remotely controlled by the Kremlin and his band of traitors?
Did Trump invade Russia or do something that would really upset Putin while I wasn't looking? Because otherwise I don't know where this idiotic smugness is coming from.

And all this stuff coming out about Trump's activities in Ukraine. Well, no need to discuss that, or how it dovetails with the questions about Russia.

Nor should we consider the fact that they were not even subtle about their campaign to extort Ukraine to smear Biden to reflect anything about how they likely behaved towards Russia in 2016. The fact that Trump and many of his people refused to testify isn't a problem, we can just assume they did that simply because they were too innocent. Trump's lifelong history of being a liar and grifter shouldn't affect our priors on why they refused, or what's lurking in his tax returns.

BUT! If I were to mount a defense of Trump on the Russia stuff it would be this: Putin didn't need Trump's direct cooperation, and in fact, doing that would've been risky and had the potential of backfiring. People associated with Trump obviously tried to collude with Russia (you know the part where Don Jr was told he was being offered dirt as part of the Russian gov't's support of the Trump campaign? And then he said "I love it"? And then he took a private meeting with Kremlin-connected Russians? Yeah, it's totally a witch hunt to look into their activities, no reason to think there could be any criminal or unethical activity there!), but if it didn't go further, it was probably because Russia didn't want or need it to. The earnest glee with which Don Jr jumped on that opportunity, and their behavior in the Ukraine scandal, should dispel any doubts about whether the higher ups in the Trump campaign didn't commit any crimes with Russia because that's just not the sort of thing they would do. So it's possible to say: Trump didn't collude with Russia, although he wanted to, because Russia was the one running that operation and they were smart enough to realize that they didn't need him to. The Ukraine stuff implicates Trump so much more because he and his people were the ones running the Ukraine operation, and they are quite a bit more stupid.

But the fact is that given the way the investigation was stonewalled and the fact that we know key lines of evidence were not able to be investigated, we can't assume that there isn't more damning stuff about the Trump 2016 campaign. However, despite Trump's blatant criminality and dishonesty, But would like us to conclude "TOTAL EXONERATION!"

Because he loves Trump.

Or, at a minimum, he hates Democrats far more than he dislikes Trump, therefore he'd rather side with the racist, Muslim-hating, pussy-grabbing, desperate-people-defrauding, child-caging, civilian-drone-bombing, corporation-deregulating, environment-destroying, dictator-loving, billionaire-kleptocrat-coddling Trump than side with the Democrats.
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  #359  
Old 10-29-2019, 10:59 PM
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Default Re: Ultimate Cagefight MMXIX, Democratic Edition

Yes, of course, Matt Taibbi, who has a distinguished career in journalism and is the author of several books, is trash. Are you sure he’s just trash? Perhaps he’s also human scum? Or guilty of treason? I know you are secretly an avid admirer of Donald Trump, a fan boy in fact, but you simply must do better! Otherwise, your hero will not hire you to become one of his flunkies!

I never said that the ONLY reason that Clinton lost in 2016 was that she was an awful candidate — I have repeatedly said it was the main, overriding reason, and I stand by that. I also offered you a much needed tutorial on past dirty elections, which you duly ignored, just like you lied and said that the New York Times will only publish opinion pieces opposing Trump, and not news articles, even after I gave you dozens of links to investigative news reports by the Times that were entirely anti-Trump. These facts don’t exist in your little self-referential bubble of reality, because you are just like your hero Trump: immune to reality, and viciously disparaging of anyone who questions the fantasy world that you live in.

I mostly do not agree with the article by Taibbi to which you linked. But I do not entirely disagree with it, either. You quoted Taibbi:

Quote:
My discomfort in the last few years, first with Russiagate and now with Ukrainegate and impeachment, stems from the belief that the people pushing hardest for Trump’s early removal are more dangerous than Trump.
I bolded the word hardest for your edification. Since you seem unable to make fine distinctions, or else dishonestly elide them, I point out that the modifier “hardest” excludes the idea, which you imply, that Taibbi is saying that ALL those who push for Trump’s impeachment are more dangerous than he is. So who is Taibbi talking about?

The irony is rich: for decades, the left, with which you ostensibly identify, has been pushing the idea of a nefarious deep state, though this specific coinage, so far as I am aware, is of relatively recent coinage. Is there a Deep State? Yes! And that is what Taibbi is talking about.

The Deep State emerged in the aftermath of World War II, and the onset of the Cold War. It consists of the FBI, the CIA, spooks, spies, mercenaries, black-book operatives, whole cabals of shadowy agencies and institutions that operated outside of democratic norms or oversight. Their handiwork is endless: the overthrow of the Guatemala government in the 50s, the coup in Iran that brought U.S. oil firms back into that country, the overthrow of Allende, the numerous plots to assassinate Castro, the systematic lies about the war in Vietnam that Ellsberg partly exposed, the Iran-contra affair, and on and on. Liberals never trusted any of these people or institutions. Now, suddenly, because, possibly, their current target is Trump, we are supposed to like them, and even trust them? O, hypocrisy!

The Deep State has plenty of reason to hate and distrust Trump. After all, he has relentlessly criticized it! Although I disagree with a substantial portion of Taibbi’s article, I believe this is what he is talking about — even though Trump may be a worthy target of Deep State wrath, there is no reason to think that these people are operating from noble motives.

Indeed, according to some “liberals,” who in this case are mostly lunatics, the Deep State conspired to assassinate JFK. But suddenly, this Deep State, which supposedly actually killed a president, is now A-OK, because it is going after Trump? And anyone who questions their motives is “trash”? :lol:

Anyway, as always, I will not be engaging with you, so any response you make to this post will just be for yourself and your little sycophantic audience in your ever-shrinking Trump-like hall of mirrors. I do stop in from time to time, however, to read your latest rubbish and respond to it if I can be arsed to do so, so see in January, maybe! :wave:

And, as I have previously indicated, my own solution to the surreal nightmare through which are living goes far beyond impeaching Trump, which of course is entirely justified. It is blue-state secession. I believe the country will inevitably break up in any case, as climate change and resource depletion kick into high gear, ending industrial, high-tech civilization and consigning us back to the middle ages or perhaps hunter-gatherer status. The U.S. in all its foulness will become a dim memory, unmourned, among the survivors. The half-submerged Lincoln Memorial, garlanded in seaweeds, will someday be rediscovered, and people will wonder who Lincoln was, and why people built a temple to him. More’s the pity.
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  #360  
Old 10-29-2019, 11:02 PM
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Default Re: Ultimate Cagefight MMXIX, Democratic Edition

Yep, still the doomsday fetishist.

Your hat. Go fuck it.
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  #361  
Old 10-29-2019, 11:57 PM
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Default Re: Ultimate Cagefight MMXIX, Democratic Edition

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Originally Posted by davidm View Post
I know you are secretly an avid admirer of Donald Trump, a fan boy in fact, but you simply must do better! Otherwise, your hero will not hire you to become one of his flunkies!
Ah yes, the real opposition to Trump is opposing his impeachment and claiming he's innocent and suggesting that impeachment is a coup. Only a secret admirer would believe Trump is guilty, worthy of impeachment and that impeachment is constitutional.
Quote:
I never said that the ONLY reason that Clinton lost in 2016 was that she was an awful candidate — I have repeatedly said it was the main, overriding reason, and I stand by that.
So weird how when any other reason is discussed, you dismiss it by saying Hillary was a shitty candidate. If you think that it's merely one of many reasons.

Nor have you ever offered any evidence other than the things that you personally don't like about her for this being the overriding reason. I mean, it's also basically a pointless comment given that you think basically every Democrat is a shitty candidate, regardless of how well they did in elections, so it offers no differentiation between losers, winners, landslides or narrowly decided races.
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I also offered you a much needed tutorial on past dirty elections, which you duly ignored
Remind yourself of that the next time you whine about the DNC, because your hypocrisy is astounding. Whenever you want to say that the DNC was rigged, remind yourself that if Bernie can't win a dirty election, it's because he's just shitty, so any supposed rigging is irrelevant and you're just a whiner making excuses for your shitty, shitty candidate.

I mean, if we're talking about who's like Trump, the level of projection with you is frequently Trumpian. You ignore your own "tutorial" whenever it suits you, but accuse others.
Quote:
just like you lied and said that the New York Times will only publish opinion pieces opposing Trump, and not news articles
This is a lie.

I certainly pointed out that when you were presenting opinion pieces as evidence, it was irrelevant to the question of their news coverage. But I never claimed that they never report anything damaging about Trump. Again, a serial liar projecting.
Quote:
you are just like your hero Trump: immune to reality, and viciously disparaging of anyone who questions the fantasy world that you live in.
I mean, really. You couldn't be more on the nose with your projection.
Quote:
Indeed, according to some “liberals,” who in this case are mostly lunatics, the Deep State conspired to assassinate JFK. But suddenly, this Deep State, which supposedly actually killed a president, is now A-OK, because it is going after Trump? And anyone who questions their motives is “trash”? :lol:
This is a minor point, but let me just point out how idiotic this argument is:

1. Unspecified "some liberals" think the Deep State assassinated Kennedy
2. This is a lunatic position
3. Many liberals, who I will present no reason to think have any significant or unusual overlap with that former group, much less a complete overlap, think people associated with the CIA have presented important and damning evidence about Trump and Ukraine, Russia, etc.
4. This means that they also think that the CIA, and all of their activities past and present, are "A-OK"
5. The fact that one group of "liberals" thinks one thing, and another, non-identical group of liberals thinks a different thing shows how hypocritical it is to consider evidence from CIA whistleblowers to have any credibility
:lol:

What the fuck do JFK conspiracy theorists have to do with me, or basically anyone relevant to this story? Meanwhile, one of the most famous JFK-CIA conspiracy theorists, Oliver Stone, says that Russia didn't do anything wrong in 2016, which makes this even more nonsensical. What a fucking :clown:

6. Unrelatedly, when Russia hacked and released the DNC's and John Podesta's emails, the important part was their content, while Russia's motives were irrelevant to me. When any CIA whistleblower acts, I will impute the full history of the CIA's activities onto those individual people and say that the motives I impute onto them mean that we should disregard what they say, despite it being confirmed by multiple lines of other evidence.

Anyway, aside from that JFK idiocy, none of this, of course, deals with the fact that we're discussing impeachment, not a fucking coup, which is the comparison Taibbi was making. Pushing for impeachment doesn't make you more dangerous than Trump, and it's a ludicrous claim to make. If they were bringing the tanks into DC and frog-marching Trump out of the White House, you know, maybe he'd have a point. In fact, what Taibbi's saying - equating Constitutional opposition to the president on the basis of documented high crimes and misdemeanors with a fundamentally illegitimate coup - enables authoritarianism far more than CIA officers reporting legitimately concerning behavior up the chain of command and to Congress or ex-CIA officers criticizing Trump on TV.

Even if the Deep State has nefarious motives for trying to undermine Trump and get him impeached and removed, the fact is that Democrats and Republicans need to agree together to remove him and he'll be replaced by another Republican. The crime won't be based on him, I dunno, "stabbing our troops in Afghanistan in the back" or whatever militaristic fantasy you think is their motivation, but, at a minimum, "withholding Congressionally mandated funds to extort a foreign leader to smear a political rival". This will, somehow, set a dangerous precedent :rolleyes: :jerkoff:
Quote:
The U.S. in all its foulness will become a dim memory, unmourned, among the survivors.
Now will the black people of the Deep South living under unopposed GOP white supremacist rule not mourn the USA because life will be better for them, or because they will have been ethnically cleansed and dead people don't mourn? :chin:

It's a curious perspective you have, thinking that nobody will be worse off in your ridiculous scenario.

:psst: davidm, you're also trash as a journalist. And your continued presence at the NYT is one of the most damning things I know about them.
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  #362  
Old 10-30-2019, 06:12 AM
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Default Re: Ultimate Cagefight MMXIX, Democratic Edition

I find Matt Taibbi to be reputable and a real journalist, and I like the podcast Useful Idiots; and here's some short, decent points on the RussiaGate coverage. Already bored.


97 days to Iowa.
Polling recently has Warren on top with Buttigieg making a big showing as well; Mayor Pete is all in on Iowa with the strategy that if he can win Iowa he can build momentum, to gain ground in the rest of the swing states, with his 90% white base of supporters. Sanders trailing. Biden polling is swinging a bit.

Then New Hampshire.
Sanders Tops CNN Poll in New Hampshire: Bernie Edges Warren as Biden Dives

Quote:
Sanders topped the poll (pdf), which was conducted between October 21 and 27, with 21% of voters naming the Vermont senator as their first choice for the nomination. Sen. Elizabeth Warren (D-Mass.) was close behind with 18%, setting up the possibility of a protracted battle between the two progressive frontrunners—both of whose home states border New Hampshire.

The poll found that voters believe Sanders is better suited to handle healthcare and the climate crisis than Warren, his closest competitor on those issues, by 33% to 17% and 30% and 15%, respectively.
Unexpected drop for Biden:
Quote:
Joe Biden, who came in third with 15% of the poll, saw support drop nine points from the last New Hampshire CNN poll. It's the latest sign of trouble for the former vice president, whose falling fundraising numbers have been a source of concern to supporters and staff recently. South Bend, Indiana Mayor Pete Buttigieg sat in fourth with 10%; no other candidate cracked double digits in the poll.

As Common Dreams reported on October 24, Biden's supporters were considering starting a super PAC to assist the flailing campaign; that super PAC, Unite the Country, launched Tuesday afternoon.
Mmmmmm Health Insurance Money.

Nevada's contested as well, looking forward to newer poll results there.
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  #363  
Old 10-30-2019, 08:21 AM
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Default Re: Ultimate Cagefight MMXIX, Democratic Edition

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I like the podcast Useful Idiots
I guess the theory is that if you use the insult as your name, it can't work against you.
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  #364  
Old 11-01-2019, 10:57 PM
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Default Re: Ultimate Cagefight MMXIX, Democratic Edition

Hey, remember how when I, or anyone to the left suggests that they won't vote for non-preferred candidates, or that people generally won't turn out for non-preferred candidates, and the vitriol and finger-wagging and serious business talks that follows? OMG WHY DO YOU WANT TRUMP TO WIN WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU. Right?
So Democrat Senator Joe Manchin of West Virginia stated that if Bernie Sanders gets the nomination, he will not back his candidacy and further won't vote for him. He said this in an interview, at length, on FOX News. I'll hold my breath while the outrage at this person is commenced.
:holdbreath:
...Certainly they are betrayers, giving Trump their vote? In a state that Bernie Sanders won every single county versus Hillary Clinton in the 2016 Democratic primary?

Oh, I forgot. That's just a shame stick for centrists and centrist-dominated media to use on progressives, not on other centrists. There will be no censure or wave of op eds; Chuck Schumer will make no announcements or move to bring Manchin in line. Imagine if Representative Ilhan Omar had said that she would not vote for Joe Biden and not back his candidacy in the general election, the firestorm of public condemnation in the media and from House leadership that would rain down.

Speaking of op eds, I strongly dislike the corporatist, garbage, union-busting, police murder of teen Laquan Mcdonald cover-up assisting Rahm Emanuel, who is working for Centerview Partners, a private equity firm directly consulting numerous health insurance clients. Emanuel recently wrote an op-ed that shit on Medicare for All, entitled Medicare-for-All is A Pipe Dream, published in the Washington Post. Imagine that. I would link to it but I'm not wasting one of my three free clicks on the WaPo metered paywall to click on that. Sorry y'all. Ask Jeeves yourselves.

Here's a quote that caught my eye while reading Warren's proposal to pay for Medicare for All:
Quote:
Meanwhile, private equity firms fight bipartisan legislation in Washington that might undermine the profitability of their investments or prevent their hospitals from sending patients surprise bills.
Hmmm. Nope, can't place it.

Warren releases 'Medicare for All' plan with no tax hike on middle class
An article on Warren's proposal.
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  #365  
Old 11-01-2019, 11:47 PM
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Default Re: Ultimate Cagefight MMXIX, Democratic Edition

Beto O'Rourke is out.

ETA:

And fuck Joe Manchin. Fuck him right in the ear. I suppose it's progress that he managed to detach his lips from Don Blankenship's backside long enough to give an interview, but fuck him just the same.
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  #366  
Old 11-02-2019, 04:51 AM
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Default Re: Ultimate Cagefight MMXIX, Democratic Edition

I'm glad to see Biden slipping in the polls. The other day he was interviewed about the Syria pull out and I'm pretty certain he said Iraq where he should have said Syria. He's a gaffathon waiting to happen and I'm not really psyched to have make excuses to me or anyone else about why our party leader makes so many verbal screwups. If we really have to go so conventional just because he's perceived to be the best shot of beating Dump, idk, that's rlly srsly discouraging, pfunks.
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  #367  
Old 11-02-2019, 08:29 AM
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Default Re: Ultimate Cagefight MMXIX, Democratic Edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by chunksmediocrites View Post
Hey, remember how when I, or anyone to the left suggests that they won't vote for non-preferred candidates, or that people generally won't turn out for non-preferred candidates, and the vitriol and finger-wagging and serious business talks that follows? OMG WHY DO YOU WANT TRUMP TO WIN WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU. Right?
So Democrat Senator Joe Manchin of West Virginia stated that if Bernie Sanders gets the nomination, he will not back his candidacy and further won't vote for him. He said this in an interview, at length, on FOX News. I'll hold my breath while the outrage at this person is commenced.
:holdbreath:
...Certainly they are betrayers, giving Trump their vote?
Joe Manchin should certainly vote for Bernie Sanders (although it might be that he would in the privacy of the voting booth, and is lying about it).

He should endorse Bernie Sanders, or anti-endorse Trump, or at a minimum keep his mouth shut about it.
Quote:
Oh, I forgot. That's just a shame stick for centrists and centrist-dominated media to use on progressives, not on other centrists. There will be no censure or wave of op eds; Chuck Schumer will make no announcements or move to bring Manchin in line.
That's because Joe Manchin could start caucusing with Republicans tomorrow and easily win his next election by double digits. Ilhan Omar can't threaten that.

I'm sorry that things aren't symmetrical, but they aren't.
Quote:
Imagine if Representative Ilhan Omar had said that she would not vote for Joe Biden and not back his candidacy in the general election, the firestorm of public condemnation in the media and from House leadership that would rain down.
And she would be risking having her constituents would vote her out, because her district has a lot of Democrats who like the national Democratic Party. Given the racial makeup, and Biden's African-American support, it's like Biden will do decently there.

A lot of Democrats in West Virginia hate the national party, and especially hate the left flank of it.

I'm sorry that things aren't symmetrical, but they aren't.
Quote:
In a state that Bernie Sanders won every single county versus Hillary Clinton in the 2016 Democratic primary?
I'm especially sorry you've mistaken West Virginia voters' hatred for Hillary Clinton for a love for Bernie Sanders.

This is a ridiculously ignorant argument right here, honestly, that reveals zero understanding of West Virginia politics.

In 2016, about 40% of Bernie's Democratic primary voters in West Virginia said they would vote for Trump. No, not over Hillary, as I'm sure you smugly assumed. Over fucking Bernie. Over both of them.

Strangely enough, comparatively very few Clinton voters said they would vote for Trump in the general election over her.

Sanders beat Clinton by 25 pts among WV Democratic primary voters who thought the next president should be more conservative than Obama. It's right here, in the exit poll.

It wasn't "we love Bernie" it was "fuck the (national) Democratic Party and fuck Hillary." If you can't understand that, you have no business talking about WV politics.

Coincidentally, if you take out the 39% of Bernie voters who Trump>Bernie supporters, and the 9% of Hillary voters who were Trump>Clinton voters, they end up about tied among the actual Democrats.

Another coincidence... Joe Manchin won his Senate primary in 2018 by about 40 points, approximately 70 to 30. Bernie's result in 2016 was 51.4. Minus that 39% who were really Trump supporters? You get 31%. Which is about what Paula Van Swearingen, Manchin's progressive challenger got.

When they were picking between Manchin, a Democrat they like, and a progressive, there wasn't much juice there. When voting for the more progressive candidate was a "fuck you" to the Democrats and the evil bitch Hillary, the more progressive candidate was a lot more successful.

Because they don't fucking like you, or me, or anyone on the left. Anyone who thinks Bernie Sanders is going to win fucking West Virginia has their head up their ass.

You know who wasn't even a faux populist, like Trump? Mitt Romney. He was the epitome of vulture capitalist patrician. He beat Obama by 27 pts there. They weren't voting for Romney because they liked his critique of the elites. They were voting for him because they hate the black man. And they will hate the Jew and they will hate that he was nominated by the party of black people and immigrants. If he's the nominee, Bernie Sanders will lose WV by a landslide, just like every other fucking Democrat would.

Now, I think Bernie Sanders could beat Trump. Definitely. But NOT in West Virginia. And Bernie Sanders won't be able to do shit to intimidate Joe Manchin as a result, because Bernie Sanders cannot defeat Joe Manchin in a WV primary and being too friendly with national Democrats is a liability for Manchin, not an asset.

And look, my dad was born in West Virginia, and grew up just over the border. I'm not saying this because I just know nothing about them and as liberal elitist I hate the hillbilly rubes. And I'm pretty sure I've spent a lot more time in WV, where I still have a number of relatives, a bunch of WV Italians just like Joe Manchin/Mancini, than some dude from Oregon.
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  #368  
Old 11-03-2019, 12:50 AM
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Default Re: Ultimate Cagefight MMXIX, Democratic Edition

Matt Bruenig offers an analysis and contrast of distribution curves regarding Warren's proposed Medicare Head Tax, as opposed to a Medicare Payroll Tax.
Elizabeth Warren’s Plan to Finance Medicare for All Is a Disaster
Quote:
Needless to say, the Medicare payroll tax is far superior to the Medicare head tax distributively speaking. Specifically, the Medicare head tax charges middle and low earners massively more than the Medicare payroll tax does.

Elizabeth Warren’s team realizes this. The reason they are using the head tax is because they think they can trick journalists into declaring that this is not a tax, since it is expressed in dollar terms rather than percent terms. On first glance, this might seem like a stretch that probably won’t work. But it is a more plausible strategy once you consider that journalists are mostly very stupid and cannot evaluate policy claims on their own, relying instead on trusted sources and names (Warren being one of those names).
In contrast, Ady Barkan, the activist diagnosed with ALS in 2016- mentioned earlier in this thread- is resoundingly positive regarding Warren's plan:
Ady Barkan: Elizabeth Warren’s Plan Is a Massive Win for the Medicare for All Movement
Quote:
The plan that Massachusetts Sen. Elizabeth Warren just released is another enormous win for us. It will help persuade our friends and families and neighbors to support Medicare for All, and in the not-too-distant future, to convince Congress too. Here’s why
.

In other news:

Kamala Harris shutters offices throughout New Hampshire
More signs of the big field narrowing.

Andrew Yang's campaign has gone 'mainstream' Yang expanding staff and picked up the advertising team that worked for Sanders in 2016- considered a big get.
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  #369  
Old 11-03-2019, 09:02 PM
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Default Re: Ultimate Cagefight MMXIX, Democratic Edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by davidm View Post
Yes, of course, Matt Taibbi, who has a distinguished career in journalism and is the author of several books, is trash.
Ah, yes, here's some quality journalism:


Conspiracy theories about the Russia investigation and dismissing all the evidence about Russia (even though the Mueller Report explicitly says it's not an exoneration, Trump and close associates never testified, tax returns never examined, dozens of prosecutions, and there are several on-going spinoff investigations... there never was nothing to it). And whining about leaks from someone who thought reporting on the content of DNC hacks (which he referred to as "leaks") was more important than reporting on the motivations and actors behind the hacking. No double standard there. Anyway, that's all good journalism.

But beyond that, he's using it to cast doubt on the Ukraine stuff, which is a whole nother matter. Like, he's acting like all we have to go on is hearsay from CIA agents. Trump himself released a partial "transcript" (readout) that is direct evidence that Trump did exactly what Taibbi is dismissing! And you can imagine that the reason it's a partial readout is because the full one is even more damning. Because it's fucking Trump, and he lies about everything and is the actual embodiment of corruption (like, ridiculous for people to call Clinton that when Trump is there. She is at best the moon to his sun), but yet he is also dumb enough to think that this partial readout was exonerating.

Not to mention all the other witnesses we have, as well as circumstantial evidence like the fact that within a day or two of this whistleblower story breaking, Trump mysteriously decided not to withhold the money anymore!

Yes, this is distinguished journalism right here, definitely not trash that makes Taibbi indistinguishable from a Trump supporter.

Also, still :lol: at "author of several books" being somehow evidence that someone is not trash. You know Ann Coulter and Dinesh D'Souza are also the authors of several books, right?
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  #370  
Old 11-04-2019, 12:38 AM
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Default Re: Ultimate Cagefight MMXIX, Democratic Edition

O'Rourke dropped out.
I don't see him endorsing any other canidate.:examine::look:

Also I did directly observe that Andrew Yang has a hell of a sidewalk chalk budget for Sacramento. Not one inch of sidewalks was not covered with slogans promoting him when I was there in October. His supporters must also have good backs.
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  #371  
Old 11-04-2019, 01:19 AM
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Default Re: Ultimate Cagefight MMXIX, Democratic Edition

I never really got Beto's appeal. He always sounded like he was faking an accent, like some people take on an accent when speaking to non-native speakers. Also, it just sounded like happy talk, and when he said hell yes we're coming for guns, it was kind of like, plz stop helping Dump, Beto, mm'kay?

As to Yang, a principled technocrat would be a couple of chalked sidewalks better than the guy we have now to me.
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  #372  
Old 11-09-2019, 11:29 PM
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Default Re: Ultimate Cagefight MMXIX, Democratic Edition

Sanders campaign to spend $30 million on TV ads in first 4 2020 states, California
Quote:
The ads will reportedly be developed within his campaign organization and shown in Iowa, Nevada, New Hampshire, South Carolina and California.
Same article mentions Warren and Buttigieg now have more offices open in Iowa than Sanders.

Andrew Yang made a $1 million ad buy in Iowa as well.He's polling at 2% currently among early primary state voters but is still in, and with his strong fundraising last quarter he can afford it.

Big Structural Bailey is a Warren-Stan's effort to promote Warren with a three-story-tall inflated yellow labrador wearing two giant pennies on its collar. I expect a mech-themed animated series in about 20 minutes. Bailey is the name of her dog; the two pennies refer to her 2% tax on the rich; "Big Structural" is a reference to her promise of "big structural change", all shoe-horned into a pun-tastic thing that Warren supporters hope will catch on, but I am thinking will just be for the Stans.


Pete Buttigieg's support is nearly 90% white and affluent, and the struggle to explain why has now hit some nerves, as one floated reason is homophobia in Black and Latinx communities. Responses have pointed out Black and Latinx people are not monolithic and painting them as a group as homophobic is patronizing and insulting, and reject this theory. Others point to Buttigieg's extremely problematic record on race in South Bend. Corporations respect his open support of their interests and monies and Mayo Pete's willingness to embrace centrism. There's a piece in Washington Post I can't link to because paywall on the subject. Here's CNN on Buttigieg's efforts to compete with Warren in Iowa:
Quote:
Decorah, Iowa (CNN) In the first few minutes of his bus tour that began Saturday, Pete Buttigieg said he misspoke. He hadn't meant to say that the 2020 Democratic primary was a two-person race between himself and Elizabeth Warren.

His message this weekend, however, told a markedly different story.
Buttigieg spent much of his time on his three-day, 330-plus mile bus tour through northern Iowa preaching the need for unity, drawing a not-so-subtle contrast with Warren's focus on fighting. It's a new strategy that exemplifies the belief inside the Buttigieg campaign that Warren -- whose growing and powerful campaign in the state is seen by Iowa operatives as outflanking former Vice President Joe Biden or Vermont Sen. Bernie Sanders -- is the biggest obstacle the South Bend, Indiana, mayor faces over finishing first in Iowa.
I'll be interested to see how this works out; Buttigieg and Warren are competing for the same white affluent comfortable demographic and may only peel voters from each other, more than from Biden or Sanders.

Former Mayor of New York with a net worth of $53 billion Michael Bloomberg is running.
Quote:
The candidacy of former New York City Mayor Michael Bloomberg for president has the ability to pose a significant threat to one of the current Democratic frontrunners.

That person is Joe Biden, several Democratic strategists told Newsweek.

One of the reasons, the strategists explained, was because of Bloomberg's billionaire status, which lends him the ability to self-fund his campaign. But more importantly, both of the 70-something-year-old white men draw from the same electorate: moderate voters.

The strategists also said a Bloomberg candidacy has the likelihood to ignite the liberal base of the party and prompt more support for those such as Sens. Elizabeth Warren (D-MA) and Bernie Sanders (I-VT).

Bloomberg has taken steps toward officially launching a candidacy, such as filing the necessary paperwork, despite previously saying earlier this year he would not do so after Biden entered the race. But the New York businessman has concerns that none of the 2020 hopefuls may be able to unseat Trump.
The likelihood of a Bloomberg campaign having any success to gain the nomination, despite his billions that he could spend on the campaign, is pretty low IMO.

538 reports that 10 candidates have qualified for the November 20 debate, with the latest being Tulsi Gabbard; six have qualified for the December debate with the latest being Amy Klobuchar.
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  #373  
Old 11-10-2019, 04:59 PM
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Default Re: Ultimate Cagefight MMXIX, Democratic Edition

Quote:
I never really got Beto's appeal.
I like him well enough that I worked a phone bank for couple hours* to support his run for Senate, but I never lifted a finger when he announced a run for President. Not because I don't think he'd do a good job, I'm sure he'd be fine. I just wish he would have focused on taking on John Cornyn's Senate seat here in Texas. He came really close before, I think he would've had a good chance. Now he's saying he won't run again. As for the guns thing, I think the mass shooting in El Paso just really hit him hard in a personal way and clouded his political judgement. Obviously one can't go around demonstrating human emotion during election season!

*Which isn't much, I'll grant you, but it's 100% more than I've ever done for another.
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  #374  
Old 11-11-2019, 01:37 AM
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Default Re: Ultimate Cagefight MMXIX, Democratic Edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by chunksmediocrites View Post
I'll be interested to see how this works out; Buttigieg and Warren are competing for the same white affluent comfortable demographic and may only peel voters from each other, more than from Biden or Sanders.
I mean, I understand chunks thinks that kinda dumb article from Matt Karp was very insightful, but this is kinda conflating two groups (that have some correlation).

You can see this in The Economist/YouGov's data, here: Elizabeth Warren — Democratic primaries 2020

Warren does best with middle-income voters, not the highest-income groups (>$100k), and there's not a very strong trend there. She does worst with low-income voters, but we're talking about a "trend" of her support being like:
under 50k: 24%
50-100k: 29%
>100k: 27%
So I mean, the notion that her support is overwhelmingly the affluent doesn't seem to track. She has fairly evenly distributed support. Meanwhile, Buttigieg's support increases linearly the higher you go up the income ladder, with a spread of like ~5% to ~12% - he has over twice the support among high-income voters as he does among low-income voters. Now the fact is that Warren does have proportionately more affluent supporters to lose than Sanders does (and in absolute terms, more supporters of every income group!).

Where they are much more similar is that Warren does especially well the more education voters have, with her having a commanding (almost 20 pt) lead among Democrats with postgraduate education. The spread among voters by education for her is something like 19% for high school or less voters to 38% for postgraduate voters. That is clearly the indicator of what's driving Warren support more so than "affluence". It may even be that when you control for education, income is negatively correlated with Warren support (it could be that the person most likely to support Warren is someone highly-educated but only low or middle income*). Buttigieg also does better the more education voters have. It's also the case that both of them do better with white voters and notably worse with black voters (black voters are also Sanders's worst group). So they do have some similarities in their coalitions. On the other hand, Warren's support seems to be the most strongly ideological (in a left-right sense) of any of the candidates - far more than Sanders or Biden. So Buttigieg's moderate pivot may limit some of his appeal to Warren voters, although currently he does better with liberal voters than conservative/moderate voters. But ideology definitely matters a lot less than people assume.

I do agree that Buttigieg is a threat to take more support from Warren than you'd expect based on their ideological leanings because they have some similar demographics supporting them. But it's more complicated than chunks's statement, and "affluence" is not really the core similarity.

*This would describe me, coincidentally.
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  #375  
Old Yesterday, 02:22 AM
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Default Re: Ultimate Cagefight MMXIX, Democratic Edition

Citing Deep Commitment to Medicare for All and Green New Deal, Nation's Largest Nurses Union Endorses Bernie Sanders for President
Quote:
"National Nurses United has endorsed Bernie Sanders because we need a president who will unite all workers to fight for social, economic, racial and gender justice, and who will champion bold ideas on workplace democracy, Medicare for All, and climate change," tweeted NNU executive director Bonnie Castillo, RN.
Mysterious Entity Emerges From Ether to Endorse Joe Biden
Quote:
“I think this election for many, many Democrats — regardless of where you live — is about who can beat Donald Trump, and the key to that is who can beat Donald Trump in Michigan and Wisconsin and western Pennsylvania, in Ohio, and I’m convinced that that’s Joe Biden,” quoth the figure, speaking with a mysterious authority.

According to this Politico article, the figure is a man named Tim Ryan (??), a congressman from Ohio who was previously running for president, but dropped out last month. I will have to take their word for it, because I have never laid eyes on this person in my life.
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