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  #601  
Old 05-26-2015, 03:25 AM
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Default Re: This Just in! Vaccines STILL Do Not Cause Autism

Quote:
Originally Posted by godfry
It is my understanding that the 4000 deaths are attributable to HPV.
The stats I posted were for cervical cancer deaths, not necessarily HPV, but HPV is the major cause of cervical cancer.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CDC
Every year, about 11,000 women are diagnosed with cervical cancer, and about 4,400 women die from this disease in the U.S. About 1% of sexually active men and women in the U.S. have genital warts at any given time. http://www.cancer.gov/about-cancer/c...-fact-sheet#q2
Quote:
Originally Posted by godfry
the vaccine does not treat all HPV which are linked to the cancer which causes death.
There are over 100 types of HPV, but only 2 are correlated with the majority of cervical cancer. The vaccine is effective against both
Quote:
Virtually all cases of cervical cancer are caused by HPV, and just two HPV types, 16 and 18, are responsible for about 70 percent of all cases http://www.cancer.gov/about-cancer/c...-fact-sheet#q2
Quote:
Two HPV vaccines are licensed by the Food and Drug Administration (FDA). The bivalent HPV vaccine (Cervarix) prevents the two HPV types, 16 and 18, which cause 70% of cervical cancers. The quadrivalent HPV vaccine (Gardasil) prevents four HPV types: HPV 16 and 18, as well as HPV 6 and 11, which cause 90% of genital warts. Quadrivalent vaccine has also been shown to protect against cancers of the anus, vagina and vulva. Only quadrivalent vaccine is licensed in use for males. http://www.cancer.gov/about-cancer/c...-fact-sheet#q2
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Originally Posted by godfry
Vaccinating millions to maybe prevent a portion of 4000 deaths a year, when the results have been jiggered by the pharmaceutical company making it and the they don't have any evidence for the effects on the target population and they don't have any evidence of potential long-term adverse effects.
Evidence of results jiggery? The vaccine was released almost a decade ago, what have the results been since 2006?

Quote:
Originally Posted by godfry
It seems to me that limited public health funds might be better used for other public health initiatives than rushing to mandate this particular vaccine. I think that availability to those who wish to obtain it, with informed consent, can utilize it.
Again, its been almost a decade with no true mandate, what rush are you talking about? Only two mandates exist (D.C. and Virginia) and both offer exemptions for religious, moral, or medical reasons. The HPV Vaccine: Access and Use in the U.S. | The Henry J. Kaiser Family Foundation




Quote:
Originally Posted by godfry
Public health funds might be better utilized to make Pap smears available to those who might be afflicted because they did not get a timely Pap smear.
The ACA addresses this. Preventative screenings are pretty much covered by insurance with no co-pay now. In the past, Planned Parenthood has always offered PAPS (they use to require them for a BCP prescription, not sure the current rules) , and they used to be offered through many county health systems.

Last edited by LadyShea; 05-26-2015 at 04:21 AM.
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  #602  
Old 05-26-2015, 03:40 AM
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Default Re: This Just in! Vaccines STILL Do Not Cause Autism

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Originally Posted by godfry
Prostate cancer screening has been implicated as one of the more glaring generators of unnecessary surgeries in traditional medicine. Overtreatment.
I find that an odd position since it has saved lives

Quote:
"Since 1992 (the year after publication of my paper showing that PSA could be used as a first-line screening test for prostate cancer), rates of death from prostate cancer have fallen 37% in the US, more than for any other cancer in men or women," he said.

Dr Catalona noted that while the prostate cancer deaths are down significantly, there is now a decrease in screening which has resulted in a decreased incidence rate of prostate cancer.

"I think the reason for this finding of decreased incidence is that there is less PSA screening due in part to recent anti-screening propaganda. 52% of men 50 or older reported having a PSA test in 2004, down from 58 percent in 2001," he said.

He finds this decrease in prostate cancer screening alarming because he sees the decrease in deaths from prostate cancer clearly connected to early detection from PSA and DRE screening. More incidence, more early detection, could mean more lowering of death rates from prostate cancer. Drop in Prostate Cancer Mortality Rates During PSA Screening Era
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137 deaths due to prostate cancer occurred between 1989 and 1996, inclusively, in the 38,056 unscreened men while only 5 deaths were observed among the 8,137 screened individuals. The prostate cancer death rates during the eight-year period were 48.7 and 15 per 100,000 man-years in the unscreened and screened groups, respectively, for a 3.25 odds ratio in favor of screening and early treatment (P < 0.01). http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9973093
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  #603  
Old 05-26-2015, 04:36 AM
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Default Re: This Just in! Vaccines STILL Do Not Cause Autism

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Every year, between 250,000 and 1 million women in the United States are diagnosed with cervical dysplasia. While it can occur at any age, the peak incidence is in women between the ages of 25 to 35. Most dysplasia cases can be cured with proper treatment and follow-up. Without treatment, 30 to 50 percent may progress to invasive cance - See more at: http://www.healthcommunities.com/cer....Sj3MvvMz.dpuf
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Research findings presented at the annual meeting of the Society of Gynecological Oncologists in Tampa, FL suggest that after girls and women were given a cervical cancer vaccine, there was a significant drop in abnormal Pap test results. Associate professor Warner Huh, M.D. (Division of Gynecologic Oncology at the University of Alabama at Birmingham, or UAB) states that his findings indicate that the vaccine GARDASIL seems to halt the development of cell changes that results in cervical disease.

There was a 43% reduction in abnormal Pap test results among women who received the GARDASIL vaccine compared to women who did not. This reduction was noted when testing for high-grade squamous intraepithelial lesions (HSIL) - pre-cancerous changes in cervix cells - more than three years after women received the vaccine.

In addition, women who received GARDASIL had a 16 to 35 percent reduction in abnormal Pap results, such as milder pre-malignant cell changes.

It is not certain that GARDASIL prevents cancer, but the results indicate that the vaccine could save thousands of women from being diagnosed with cell abnormality or malignant changes, which would ultimately lead to more tests and perhaps surgery. The study results show that there was a 42 percent reduction in invasive procedures like cervical biopsies for women who received GARDASIL compared to those who did not.

The Society of Gynecologic Oncologists reports that about 25 million U.S. women between the ages of 14 and 59 have HPV, costing about $4 billion annually in screening and treating. "Dr. Huh's study concludes that the trials covered in this paper indicate an overall benefit of vaccination," says a statement from the society. http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/100544.php
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Despite these advances, U.S. screening programs are not reaching all women in the United States. It is estimated that half of the women diagnosed with cervical cancer have never been screened for cervical cancer, and an additional 10% have not been screened in the previous 5 years. Cervical cancer disproportionately affects women of lower socioeconomic status, without regular access to health care, who are uninsured, and who are recent immigrants. These populations stand to benefit most from HPV vaccination. HPV and HPV Vaccine - HCP
A colposcopy and biopsy aren't cheap, and neither is cryotherapy or laser surgery for dysplasia. So even though there are "only" 4400 deaths, there are many more cases of precancerous cells in need of treatment. Again, prevention makes sense.
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  #604  
Old 05-26-2015, 05:00 AM
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Default Re: This Just in! Vaccines STILL Do Not Cause Autism

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Originally Posted by LadyShea View Post
Again, its been almost a decade with no true mandate, what rush are you talking about?
The initial one to get it mandated in as many states as possible. That was in 2006, immediately after they'd rushed the approval through FDA. A marketing strategy on the part of the vaccine patent holder. Her point seemed to me to be that Merck had to convince the public that there was some kind of health crisis which demanded a mandatory imposition of their product, but they had to first convince the 'public' that it was a problem when most of the public had never heard of HPV. Merck had to create a market 'out of thin air', as they referred to it, and then get the government to mandate their product to fill the 'demand' as some kind of necessity for public health.

It seems like a case of yelling "CANCER!" in a crowded clinic as a shakedown.

But, hey...Vaccines still do not cause autism.
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  #605  
Old 05-26-2015, 05:20 AM
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Default Re: This Just in! Vaccines STILL Do Not Cause Autism

Quote:
Originally Posted by LadyShea View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by godfry
Prostate cancer screening has been implicated as one of the more glaring generators of unnecessary surgeries in traditional medicine. Overtreatment.
I find that an odd position since it has saved lives

Dr. Gilbert Welch at Dartmouth
. He and his team have a fairly well known book on the topic. It seems to be a well-known topic of controversy in the 'overdiagnosis' and 'overtreatment' crowd. As I understand it, PSA is the 'poster child' for overdiagnosis.
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  #606  
Old 05-26-2015, 01:30 PM
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Default Re: This Just in! Vaccines STILL Do Not Cause Autism

HPV is most often asymptomatic. Millions are infected and spread it without knowing they have it. It is the most common STD in the US. Most cases clear on their own in time, but thousands don't clear and the first sign is a bad PAP at some time down the road.

From 2005 http://www.justcoding.com/48873/huma...ilent-epidemic
Quote:
HPV is estimated to be the most common sexually transmitted infection in the United States.[166] Most sexually active men and women will probably acquire genital HPV infection at some point in their lives.[160] The American Social Health Association reported estimates that about 75–80% of sexually active Americans will be infected with HPV at some point in their lifetime.[167][168] By the age of 50 more than 80% of American women will have contracted at least one strain of genital HPV.[166][169][170]
75% is hardly a made up or manufactured problem. It's Russian Roulette as to who will get the strains and have the biological factors that lead to cancer is all.

Last edited by LadyShea; 05-26-2015 at 01:48 PM.
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  #607  
Old 05-26-2015, 01:57 PM
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Default Re: This Just in! Vaccines STILL Do Not Cause Autism

More studies are pointing to HPV as the leading cause of non-smoking related throat cancer as well.
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  #608  
Old 05-26-2015, 02:05 PM
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Default Re: This Just in! Vaccines STILL Do Not Cause Autism

I am kind of shocked. Dysplasia and associated follow up and/or treatment has been quite common amongst my peers. I have met or known dozens of woman with HPV related problems in their gynecological history (along with another often silent epidemic, chlamydia). That someone thinks an HPV vaccine stems from a manufactured crisis blows my mind.
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Old 05-26-2015, 07:38 PM
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Default Re: This Just in! Vaccines STILL Do Not Cause Autism

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I am kind of shocked. Dysplasia and associated follow up and/or treatment has been quite common amongst my peers. I have met or known dozens of woman with HPV related problems in their gynecological history (along with another often silent epidemic, chlamydia). That someone thinks an HPV vaccine stems from a manufactured crisis blows my mind.

Well, in all fairness, she is not just 'someone', but a tenured professor of history, with a specialty in the history of public health and medicine, who presently teaches as Emory University. And, she does not think that the HPV vaccine stems from a manufactured crisis, but that a manufactured crisis stems from the development of the HPV vaccine. Or, any new vaccine. Throughout her narrative, she repeatedly points out this situation accompanying each new vaccine introduction since the the measles vaccine in 1963....when a new vaccine is developed, it seems to engender a new propaganda initiative to impose it upon a largely uninterested or unenthusiastic public, often by overstating the threat and understating the attendant risks.
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Old 05-26-2015, 07:54 PM
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Default Re: This Just in! Vaccines STILL Do Not Cause Autism

How was the threat overstated when 75% of people are infected at some point in their life?
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Old 05-26-2015, 08:25 PM
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Default Re: This Just in! Vaccines STILL Do Not Cause Autism

HPV Vaccine Produces Early Benefits for Teen Girls: Study
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  #612  
Old 05-27-2015, 12:22 AM
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Default Re: This Just in! Vaccines STILL Do Not Cause Autism

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Excellent. That should mean that compulsion will not be necessary. Everybody will be so impressed with the results that they'll run down to their nearest clinic to obtain their vaccination.

And, remember....Vaccines STILL do not cause autism!
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Old 05-27-2015, 12:48 AM
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Default Re: This Just in! Vaccines STILL Do Not Cause Autism

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How was the threat overstated when 75% of people are infected at some point in their life?
Um...So, 230 million Americans are infected with HPV at some point in their lives? Yet, according to the figures we've seen here, only 4000 deaths a year are attributable to cervical cancer and of those, we don't know how many of them are linked to HPV, as there are other causes. It sounds like the STD equivalent to the common cold and its associated complications. That seems to me as though the huge bulk of those millions affected by HPV infection weather it and return to health and only a 'vanishingly small' proportion show adverse incidents due to their infection....rather like that 'vanishingly small' proportion of the vaccinated population which experiences vaccine injury in the process of inoculation. So...I guess we can dismiss the victims of HPV cervical cancer, just like we dismiss the victims of vaccine injury?
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  #614  
Old 05-27-2015, 02:34 AM
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Default Re: This Just in! Vaccines STILL Do Not Cause Autism

Huh? Almost all cervical cancers are linked to HPV, as are thousands of cases of cervical dysplasia. Have you read anything other than one chapter in one book?

I have to ask you again, do you think the HPV vaccine does more harm than good? If you do can you name the concrete harms and provide evidence? If you do not, what exactly are you arguing about? Your true beef here is unclear to me.
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Old 05-27-2015, 02:53 AM
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Default Re: This Just in! Vaccines STILL Do Not Cause Autism

Yeah um this is something you may want to research. There are multiple strains of HPV some cause cancer, some warts, some both and some neither.

It's a specific set of strains which cause cancer. So it becomes a gamble if the one you get is evil.
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Old 05-27-2015, 05:47 PM
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Default Re: This Just in! Vaccines STILL Do Not Cause Autism

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Huh? Almost all cervical cancers are linked to HPV, as are thousands of cases of cervical dysplasia. Have you read anything other than one chapter in one book?
Yep. And I'm not reading for information on dysplasia (which for me, tends to mean that the animal will have to be 'put down'), but for a social history of vaccines in the US. I'm also a child-free, aged, male adult who has little interest or concern in the direct benefits of HPV vaccination. I stand corrected on the linkage.

Quote:
I have to ask you again, do you think the HPV vaccine does more harm than good? If you do can you name the concrete harms and provide evidence? If you do not, what exactly are you arguing about? Your true beef here is unclear to me.
I don't know, but I suspect the answer to your question is 'no', it is likely that the vaccine will not do more harm than good. Can I name concrete harms and provide evidence? No. Do I trust anything I've seen so far? Not really, but I give Conis more credence than I do you or anything emanating from the 'scientific community' you cite, because the 'scientific community' is tainted by the influence of the pharmaceutical industry. I await the Cochrane Collaboration review of the vaccine use for prophylaxis against cervical cancer, because I have more trust in that source than anything I've heard to date from those pushing this latest attempted imposition upon the public. I still do not trust the CDC, nor the FDA, nor Merck, nor any pharmaceutical company pronouncements about their products. They are all corrupt. My 'beef' is that I'm tired of hearing shit from vaccine proponents which fucking ignores shiploads of history and promotes an unrealistic mindless acceptance of whatever propaganda shit the pharmaceutical companies shovel out their doors. I'm tired of seeing anxious Americans demonized because they have reasonable concerns and the temerity to question the pharmaceutical industry and its lackeys in the government agencies which are supposed to regulate the industry and protect the public, but all too often just don't. I'm just fucking grumpy.
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Old 05-27-2015, 11:01 PM
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Default Re: This Just in! Vaccines STILL Do Not Cause Autism

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  #618  
Old 05-28-2015, 04:46 AM
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Default Re: This Just in! Vaccines STILL Do Not Cause Autism

Okey dokey
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Old 09-02-2016, 10:52 PM
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  #620  
Old 09-13-2016, 10:20 PM
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Default Re: This Just in! Vaccines STILL Do Not Cause Autism

FRANCE DECIDES TO OPT OUT OF VACCINES | "Global Possibilities"

Er ... clearly the website is part of loonyville, but there are purported facts here—worrying claims about France. How real is this?
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  #621  
Old 09-14-2016, 05:24 AM
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Default Re: This Just in! Vaccines STILL Do Not Cause Autism

About on par, the article appears to be lifted from another nutjob site.

Raptor vaccineIn other words, this poll was taken right after the 2009 H1N1 pandemic, where there were some issues with the vaccine in Europe, and some concerns that the H1N1 virus wasn’t all that dangerous (which it was).

But more than that, relying upon polling data may not represent actual real-life experience. According the World Health Organization (WHO), 2014 vaccine uptake in France is one of the highest in the world. In fact, for diphtheria, pertussis (whooping cough), tetanus, HiB and polio, the vaccine uptake rate for children exceeds 98%. France must be one of the best vaccinated countries on the planet.

Maybe the temporal relationship of attitudes to the H1N1 vaccine influenced the data in 2010. Because subsequent data seems to be out of sync with the “beliefs” of population.

More recent data on HPV vaccination attitudes in Europe seems to present data that also contradicts Minister Rivasi’s claims. It appears that over 82% of French parents are in favor of the HPV vaccinations for their sons. HPV vaccines are probably one of the most controversial vaccines in France, yet it’s considered important by a large majority of the population (although uptake of the vaccine remains low, because of a multitude of reasons).

Ironically, in an analysis of a localized measles outbreak in France, nearly 74% of those infected by the virus were not vaccinated. And of those infected, 29% of the parents were anti-vaccine.
Vaccine denier makes it up – France and vaccinations


So yes, France is opting out of vaccines if a 2010 poll is considered and not the actual vaccination rates, and they have had no outbreaks because of it, so long as actual outbreaks are ignored.
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Old 03-13-2017, 01:34 PM
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Default Re: This Just in! Vaccines STILL Do Not Cause Autism

'Isn't it ironic': Pauline Hanson's WA senator hospitalised with measles | SBS News

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"Our new Western Australian senator has caught measles in Bali after I caught foot in mouth earlier this week."

In comments branded "crazy" by health experts, Senator Hanson earlier this month appeared to voice anti-vaccination sentiments, casting doubt on the effectiveness of vaccines, urging parents to do their own research and accusing the government of blackmailing parents with its 'no jab, no pay' policy.
In her "defence", she's not a committed antivax nut, just a populist racist bigot who thought it was good to make antivax comments and backtrack when called on it.
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Old 03-13-2017, 04:50 PM
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Default Re: This Just in! Vaccines STILL Do Not Cause Autism

Now why didn't Alannis Morissette include this example in her song?
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Old 03-13-2017, 04:54 PM
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Default Re: This Just in! Vaccines STILL Do Not Cause Autism

That's not irony. It's poetic justice.
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Old 03-29-2017, 06:33 PM
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Default Re: This Just in! Vaccines STILL Do Not Cause Autism

Jenny McCarthy causes autism.

BH

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