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  #1  
Old 04-11-2012, 10:48 PM
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Default Zimmerman to be charged

in the murder of Trayvon

Quote:
Florida special prosecutor Angela Corey plans to announce as early as Wednesday afternoon that she is charging neighborhood watch volunteer George Zimmerman in the shooting of Trayvon Martin, according to a law enforcement official close to the investigation.

It was not immediately clear what charge Zimmerman will face.
George Zimmerman to be charged in Trayvon Martin shooting, official says - The Washington Post


Which should make me happy on the other hand, the delay gave the bastard time to put it in the fucking wind.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hisformerattorney
“You can stop looking in Florida,” Uhrig told reporters. “Look much further away than that.”
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  #2  
Old 04-11-2012, 10:50 PM
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Default Re: Zimmerman to be charged

Charge is 2nd degree murder according to AP. So, ok it took them ridiculously long to charge him but that seems like a reasonable charge to me.
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Old 04-11-2012, 11:03 PM
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Default Re: Zimmerman to be charged

Quote:
Originally Posted by Watser? View Post
Charge is 2nd degree murder according to AP. So, ok it took them ridiculously long to charge him but that seems like a reasonable charge to me.
Thanks, I didn't notice. I agree, it does seem reasonable. If zimmerman had been charged with that at the outside it would be awesome.
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  #4  
Old 04-11-2012, 11:02 PM
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Default Re: Zimmerman to be charged

Quote:
A law enforcement official says that the killer in the Trayvon Martin case will be charged with second-degree murder and is in custody.

The official with knowledge of the case says that the charge against George Zimmerman will be announced at a news conference at 6 p.m. Wednesday. The official says he’s in custody in Florida but wouldn’t say where. The official spoke on condition of anonymity because he wasn’t authorized to disclose the information.
Zimmerman Arrested | NewsOne

news conference at 6 pm.

I wonder if this is a victory for the blog, and the web and activism and the 24 hour news cycle.

Without the story I do not think he would have been charged.
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  #5  
Old 04-11-2012, 11:22 PM
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Default Re: Zimmerman to be charged

It does seem sorta crazy. "Huh, well, we have this guy who killed another guy, but he said it's self-defense so we let him go." I mean, sure, if you had cops watching and they thought it was clearly self-defense, that'd be one thing, but without definite witnesses? Killing people, usually illegal.
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Old 04-11-2012, 11:57 PM
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Default Re: Zimmerman to be charged

Quote:
Originally Posted by seebs View Post
Killing people, usually illegal.
True, but the notion that young black males qualify as "people" in the eyes of Florida cops is what they call assuming facts not in evidence.
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  #7  
Old 04-12-2012, 12:21 AM
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Default Re: Zimmerman to be charged

Did you guys see this?

He has a really sparse little website, and one of the few things he posted on it was supportive graffiti on a black cultural center.

George Zimmerman's Website Seeks Donations, Includes Photo From Vandalized Black Cultural Center (UPDATED)

An interesting fact is that people you don't know who actively support you for killing a young black guy: Probably racists. Also, things spray painted onto buildings: Probably vandalism. Those two things together: Probably a violent threat.
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  #8  
Old 04-12-2012, 01:53 AM
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Default Re: Zimmerman to be charged

From Zimmerman's site:

========

The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil, is that good men do nothing. - Edmund Burke.

"People have a right to their own opinions, but not to their own facts. Evidence must be located, not created, and opinions not backed by evidence cannot be given much weight" - James W. Loewen

"The world is my country, all mankind are my brethren, and to do good is my religion." - Thomas Paine

"A thousand words will not leave so deep an impression as one deed" - Henrik, Ibsen

========

Left one out: "Thou shalt not kill." - God

If that matters.
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  #9  
Old 04-12-2012, 02:40 AM
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Default Re: Zimmerman to be charged

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pyrrho View Post
Left one out: "Thou shalt not kill." - God

If that matters.

Which one?
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Old 04-12-2012, 03:42 AM
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Default Re: Zimmerman to be charged

Quote:
Originally Posted by thedoc View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pyrrho View Post
Left one out: "Thou shalt not kill." - God

If that matters.

Which one?
I suppose you think you're rather clever. I couldn't possibly comment.

All of them. He failed on each. All he ever had to do was to call 911 and sit in his car until the police came to do their job.
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Old 04-12-2012, 04:45 AM
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Default Re: Zimmerman to be charged

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Originally Posted by Pyrrho View Post
I suppose you think you're rather clever.

Not nearly so much as you.
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Old 04-12-2012, 12:09 PM
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Default Re: Zimmerman to be charged

Quote:
Originally Posted by thedoc View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pyrrho View Post
I suppose you think you're rather clever.
Not nearly so much as you.
You're wandering out of your depth. Please stay in the kiddie pool.
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  #13  
Old 04-12-2012, 04:47 AM
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Default Re: Zimmerman to be charged

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pyrrho View Post
All of them. He failed on each. All he ever had to do was to call 911 and sit in his car until the police came to do their job.

The heat of the moment? Was he afraid he would get away?
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Old 04-12-2012, 06:13 AM
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Default Re: Zimmerman to be charged

Quote:
Originally Posted by thedoc View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pyrrho View Post
All of them. He failed on each. All he ever had to do was to call 911 and sit in his car until the police came to do their job.

The heat of the moment? Was he afraid he would get away?
Get away with what? Being black?

Even if this asshole thought the kid was committing a crime, it's not in his domain to shoot him to death to prevent him from "getting away" with his crime. Even the cops can't do that except for extraordinary reasons.

What the hell are you talking about?
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Old 04-12-2012, 12:23 PM
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Default Re: Zimmerman to be charged

Quote:
Originally Posted by thedoc View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pyrrho View Post
All of them. He failed on each. All he ever had to do was to call 911 and sit in his car until the police came to do their job.
The heat of the moment? Was he afraid he would get away?
Let's see...Zimmerman was safe in his car, followed Martin for a while while driving his car, then decided to get out of his car with a gun in his pocket to chase Martin on foot, despite being told that the police were on the way and that he did not need to get out of his car, all the while suspecting Martin to be a burglar, stated that he thought that there was "something wrong" with Martin and that Martin was "on drugs," yet persisted in following Martin, ended up in a physical confrontation which he blames on the person he had been following in the dark with a gun, got his ass kicked, and "won" the altercation by killing Martin, whereas all he ever had to do was sit in his car and wait for the police.

Martin had done nothing but walk on the sidewalk. He had committed no crime, no matter what Zimmerman's imaginings were.
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Old 04-12-2012, 03:53 AM
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Default Re: Zimmerman to be charged

"A thousand words will not leave so deep an impression as one deed" - Henrik, Ibsen

Huh. You know, that's totally true. Consider the difference in impact between a web site full of quotes and a dead kid.
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Old 04-12-2012, 04:50 AM
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Default Re: Zimmerman to be charged

The heat of the moment of seeing a black kid in a hoodie walking with a bag of skittles in :gasp: his neighborhood.

Imagine what might have happened had Trayvon Martin "gotten away."
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Old 04-12-2012, 04:51 AM
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Default Re: Zimmerman to be charged

It's telling that you consistently withhold judgement on pedophiles and murderers, but you'll protest against girls in shop class to your dying day.
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Old 04-12-2012, 04:58 AM
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Default Re: Zimmerman to be charged

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Originally Posted by livius drusus View Post
It's telling that you consistently withhold judgement on pedophiles and murderers, but you'll protest against girls in shop class to your dying day.

Project much?
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Old 04-12-2012, 04:56 AM
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Default Re: Zimmerman to be charged

I am all for innocent-until-proven guilty, so I am inclined to withhold judgement on "murderer" until the evidence is actually available.

I'll stand by "confessed killer", though.
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Old 04-12-2012, 04:57 AM
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Default Re: Zimmerman to be charged

He may well have been afraid that Martin would get away. He may even have had good reason to believe that would happen. However, it is no part of the Neighborhood Watch's job to apprehend suspects. Their job is to observe and report suspicious behavior to the police. That being the case, his fear that Martin would get away provides him with no justification for his pursuit of Martin. The "heat of the moment" argument provides no defense for his actions. On the contrary, it supports the argument that Zimmerman exercised poor judgement. That poor judgement led directly to the Martin's death at Zimmerman's hand. That, it seems to me, supports, at the very least, a charge of negligent homicide.
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Old 04-12-2012, 05:07 AM
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Default Re: Zimmerman to be charged

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Originally Posted by Angakuk View Post
That poor judgement led directly to the Martin's death at Zimmerman's hand. That, it seems to me, supports, at the very least, a charge of negligent homicide.
Bingo. As far as I'm concerned, the established facts of the case point to murder, not self-defense, not manslaughter. The disputed facts -- whether Trayvon was whupping him when he was shot -- are irrelevant, imo. Zimmerman's recklessness was in direct contravention not just of basic neighborhood watch principles but also of the explicit instructions the 911 operator gave him. That's what makes him a murderer.

We'll see what the Florida courts say on the matter, but given the systemic racism in the system, I'm not going to just accept whatever the verdict is because of innocent-until-proven-guilty. The process is beyond tainted.
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Old 04-12-2012, 06:06 PM
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Default Re: Zimmerman to be charged

Quote:
Originally Posted by livius drusus View Post
As far as I'm concerned, the established facts of the case point to murder, not self-defense, not manslaughter. The disputed facts -- whether Trayvon was whupping him when he was shot -- are irrelevant, imo. Zimmerman's recklessness
I'll cop to not being aware of every factoid surrounding this case, but if that is an established fact it's certainly news to me.

Quote:
was in direct contravention not just of basic neighborhood watch principles
You do understand that those are rendered moot the instant a "neighborhood watchman" accurately perceives a clear and present danger to his personal safety, right? And for that matter, how is his association with that organization even germane, given that no citizen requires its imprimatur to take reasonable steps (regardless of whether Zimmerman's actions can be so described) to satisfy himself that activity conducted in public is benign?

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but also of the explicit instructions the 911 operator gave him.
How does "We don't need you to [follow him]" count as an instruction? And if it doesn't, what instructions are you talking about?

Quote:
That's what makes him a murderer.
I invite you to elaborate on how you get from your stated premises to this conclusion, or to add whatever premises you deem necessary; because taken at face value your reasoning strikes me as spectacularly retarded.
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Old 04-12-2012, 06:28 PM
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Default Re: Zimmerman to be charged

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Originally Posted by yguy View Post
You do understand that those are rendered moot the instant a "neighborhood watchman" accurately perceives a clear and present danger to his personal safety, right?
Zimmerman: (safe in his car) "…Shit he's running."
Dispatcher: "Are you following him?"
Zimmerman: "Yeah"
Dispatcher: "Ok, we don't need you to do that."

Clearly Zimmerman was in serious danger when the kid with skittles in his pocket ran away from him and he pursued.
Those who support the self defense claims of an aggressor should also have no problems with robbers killing home owners that threaten them, after all it's 'self defense.'

In California if you escalate the situation or are the first to bring out deadly force, you pretty much nullify your claims to self defense. Florida on the other hand seems to treat 'black' as a deadly weapon.
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Old 04-13-2012, 11:14 AM
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Default Re: Zimmerman to be charged

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ari View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by yguy View Post
You do understand that those are rendered moot the instant a "neighborhood watchman" accurately perceives a clear and present danger to his personal safety, right?
Zimmerman: (safe in his car) "…Shit he's running."
Dispatcher: "Are you following him?"
Zimmerman: "Yeah"
Dispatcher: "Ok, we don't need you to do that."
I think that was phrased badly.

What they said: "We don't need you to do that."

What he probably heard: "If you're not going to do this dangerous and manly thing, nobody is going to hold it against you."

What they should have said: "You are a fucking civilian. Stay the fuck in your car and go home. If you do something stupid we'll haul your ass to jail."
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Thanks, from:
Angakuk (04-14-2012), Ari (04-13-2012), SR71 (04-16-2012), Stormlight (04-13-2012), The Man (04-13-2012), viscousmemories (04-21-2012), Watser? (04-13-2012)
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