Go Back   Freethought Forum > The Public Baths > Food & Drink

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 12-07-2019, 03:05 AM
lisarea's Avatar
lisarea lisarea is offline
Solitary, poor, nasty, brutish, and short
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: XVMMDCCCXXIII
Blog Entries: 1
Images: 3
Default In which I form a monster so hideous that even I turn from him in disgust

This is the thread about cultures and ferments, in case you couldn't tell.

So I learned just today that there is such a thing as heirloom yogurt cultures, and that cultures propagated from store bought yogurt wither and die after a couple batches.

And yet, I have been perpetuating the same store boughten yogurt culture for about a year now, probably 20-odd batches so far. :emostein:

Could it have picked up local cultures out of the air the way sourdough starter does? Or maybe I started it with a batch of local yogurt with unusually robust cultures? I don't remember what kind I used originally, but it is possible it was Noosa, which is kind of hipstery and also local. So maybe?

(I need a whole thread because I am doing this stuff a lot lately, and I don't really know how it works yet so much. Next I am making a new ginger bug. I had one years ago, but then I accidentally heated up the oven with it inside, and yes, I know that I am the real monster.)
Reply With Quote
Thanks, from:
BrotherMan (12-07-2019), But (12-14-2019), ceptimus (12-18-2019), chunksmediocrites (01-04-2020), Crumb (12-08-2019), Kyuss Apollo (12-07-2019), Pyrrho (01-04-2020), slimshady2357 (12-07-2019), SR71 (12-07-2019), Stormlight (02-07-2020)
  #2  
Old 12-07-2019, 08:55 AM
Qingdai's Avatar
Qingdai Qingdai is offline
Dogehlaugher -Scrutari
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Northwest
Gender: Female
Posts: XVCDLI
Images: 164
Default Re: In which I form a monster so hideous that even I turn from him in disgust

What the hecking heck is a ginger bug?
__________________
Ishmaeline of Domesticity drinker of smurf tears
Reply With Quote
Thanks, from:
But (12-14-2019), chunksmediocrites (01-04-2020), Corona688 (03-31-2020), Crumb (12-08-2019), Sock Puppet (12-09-2019), SR71 (12-07-2019), Stormlight (02-07-2020)
  #3  
Old 12-07-2019, 11:34 AM
JoeP's Avatar
JoeP JoeP is online now
Chaos Defrost
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: England/Miisaland
Gender: Male
Posts: XXXCXXIV
Images: 18
Default Re: In which I form a monster so hideous that even I turn from him in disgust

Google "What the hecking heck is a ginger bug" (with quotes) - no results
But "What the heck is a ginger bug" - several. You are not the first person to wonder.

Quote:
A ginger bug is a culture of beneficial bacteria made from fresh ginger root and sugar. It is similar to a sourdough starter for bread or a kombucha SCOBY.
__________________

:roadrun:
Free thought! Please take one!

:unitedkingdom:   :southafrica:   :unitedkingdom::finland:       :eur:       :m&ms::m&ms::twix::twix: (rotated 180°):m&ms::m&ms:
Reply With Quote
Thanks, from:
BrotherMan (12-07-2019), But (12-14-2019), chunksmediocrites (01-04-2020), lisarea (12-08-2019), Stormlight (02-07-2020)
  #4  
Old 12-07-2019, 11:34 AM
JoeP's Avatar
JoeP JoeP is online now
Chaos Defrost
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: England/Miisaland
Gender: Male
Posts: XXXCXXIV
Images: 18
Default Re: In which I form a monster so hideous that even I turn from him in disgust

Google "What the hecking heck is a ginger bug" (with quotes) - no results
But "What the heck is a ginger bug" - several. You are not the first person to wonder, but you may be the first person to hecking wonder.

Quote:
A ginger bug is a culture of beneficial bacteria made from fresh ginger root and sugar. It is similar to a sourdough starter for bread or a kombucha SCOBY.
__________________

:roadrun:
Free thought! Please take one!

:unitedkingdom:   :southafrica:   :unitedkingdom::finland:       :eur:       :m&ms::m&ms::twix::twix: (rotated 180°):m&ms::m&ms:
Reply With Quote
Thanks, from:
SR71 (12-07-2019)
  #5  
Old 12-07-2019, 04:36 PM
lisarea's Avatar
lisarea lisarea is offline
Solitary, poor, nasty, brutish, and short
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: XVMMDCCCXXIII
Blog Entries: 1
Images: 3
Default Re: In which I form a monster so hideous that even I turn from him in disgust

Yes, it is to make ginger ales and other sodas like that.

When I did that before, I exploded ginger beer all over my kitchen.
Reply With Quote
Thanks, from:
BrotherMan (12-07-2019), But (12-14-2019), ceptimus (12-18-2019), chunksmediocrites (01-04-2020), Crumb (12-08-2019), JoeP (12-07-2019), Sock Puppet (12-09-2019), Stormlight (02-07-2020)
  #6  
Old 12-14-2019, 09:10 PM
But's Avatar
But But is offline
This is the title that appears beneath your name on your posts.
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Gender: Male
Posts: MVDCCCXXVI
Default Re: In which I form a monster so hideous that even I turn from him in disgust

What the hecking heck is a ginger bug?

Originally from Sweden, the ginger bug (Teleomorpha pensylvanica) was first found in a field near Penhaligon Island in 1988. Four years later, a scientist noticed the bug. Local volunteer Sam Houston was tasked with raising the little critter and educating the local community. As many call him, Ginger Brian.

The ginger bug is also commonly called the kudu bug or bug friend. It's well-known as a great backyard pest. Several folks have said that they saw a ginger bug inside a barbecue and felt it fall to the ground and then crawl back into a grinder or ice cream maker, where it was crushed and turned into paste. But have you ever seen this happen? Nope, the ginger bug doesn't just hop off a grill and crawl in your cup. Sometimes it will crawl into some sort of foodstuff that's being processed and turn it into a paste. Then you can take it home and put it on your pizza, on some pizza crumbles, on a salad. Maybe even put it on meat! But first it's gonna be dry and/or limp and/or it's gonna have a bunch of zits. And then you'll have to throw it out.
Reply With Quote
Thanks, from:
ceptimus (12-18-2019), chunksmediocrites (01-04-2020), fragment (12-15-2019), JoeP (12-14-2019), lisarea (12-14-2019), Qingdai (12-17-2019), Stormlight (02-07-2020)
  #7  
Old 12-14-2019, 10:13 PM
JoeP's Avatar
JoeP JoeP is online now
Chaos Defrost
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: England/Miisaland
Gender: Male
Posts: XXXCXXIV
Images: 18
Default Re: In which I form a monster so hideous that even I turn from him in disgust

:frysees:
__________________

:roadrun:
Free thought! Please take one!

:unitedkingdom:   :southafrica:   :unitedkingdom::finland:       :eur:       :m&ms::m&ms::twix::twix: (rotated 180°):m&ms::m&ms:
Reply With Quote
Thanks, from:
But (12-14-2019), chunksmediocrites (01-04-2020), lisarea (12-15-2019), SR71 (12-15-2019)
  #8  
Old 12-15-2019, 03:46 AM
lisarea's Avatar
lisarea lisarea is offline
Solitary, poor, nasty, brutish, and short
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: XVMMDCCCXXIII
Blog Entries: 1
Images: 3
Default Re: In which I form a monster so hideous that even I turn from him in disgust

Quote:
Originally Posted by But View Post
As many call him, Ginger Brian.
People do name their cultures once they get established, so thank you.
Reply With Quote
Thanks, from:
But (12-15-2019), SR71 (12-15-2019), Stormlight (02-07-2020)
  #9  
Old 12-15-2019, 05:41 AM
But's Avatar
But But is offline
This is the title that appears beneath your name on your posts.
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Gender: Male
Posts: MVDCCCXXVI
Default Re: In which I form a monster so hideous that even I turn from him in disgust

Quote:
Originally Posted by lisarea View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by But View Post
As many call him, Ginger Brian.
People do name their cultures once they get established, so thank you.

Thank Transformer.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 12-18-2019, 06:02 PM
ceptimus's Avatar
ceptimus ceptimus is offline
puzzler
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: UK
Posts: XVMCDXLII
Images: 28
Default Re: In which I form a monster so hideous that even I turn from him in disgust

__________________
Reply With Quote
Thanks, from:
BrotherMan (12-18-2019), But (12-19-2019), Ensign Steve (12-26-2019), JoeP (12-18-2019), lisarea (12-19-2019), Sock Puppet (12-18-2019), Stormlight (02-07-2020)
  #11  
Old 01-04-2020, 02:27 AM
lisarea's Avatar
lisarea lisarea is offline
Solitary, poor, nasty, brutish, and short
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: XVMMDCCCXXIII
Blog Entries: 1
Images: 3
Default Re: In which I form a monster so hideous that even I turn from him in disgust

Quote:
Originally Posted by lisarea View Post
Every now and again, I remember that :ff: used to have a cooking questions thread, and I think to myself, "I should find that thread again."

I have read this thread thoroughly and understand it is old, yet still wish to reply.

Will buttermilk cultures survive freezing? I know I can freeze buttermilk for other things, but I specifically want to freeze it to use for creme fraiche later, and that depends on the cultures still being active.
Yes. Just drop one 2 Tbsp. cube of frozen buttermilk into 2 cups of cream, and it should culture just fine. It'll need a little more time just to get to the right temperature, but it ought to work.

Quote:
Better yet, even: Could I freeze the correct proportions of heavy cream and buttermilk already mixed together in jars and then just thaw them on the counter and then leave them to culture?
I don't know.
Reply With Quote
Thanks, from:
BrotherMan (01-04-2020), Stormlight (02-07-2020)
  #12  
Old 01-04-2020, 07:00 AM
chunksmediocrites's Avatar
chunksmediocrites chunksmediocrites is offline
ne plus ultraviolet
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Portland Oregon USA
Gender: Male
Posts: VCCXXX
Images: 299
Default Re: In which I form a monster so hideous that even I turn from him in disgust

Quote:
Originally Posted by lisarea View Post
So I learned just today that there is such a thing as heirloom yogurt cultures, and that cultures propagated from store bought yogurt wither and die after a couple batches.

And yet, I have been perpetuating the same store boughten yogurt culture for about a year now, probably 20-odd batches so far. :emostein:

Could it have picked up local cultures out of the air the way sourdough starter does? Or maybe I started it with a batch of local yogurt with unusually robust cultures? I don't remember what kind I used originally, but it is possible it was Noosa, which is kind of hipstery and also local. So maybe?
Air almost always contains yeast spores. For sourdough bread cultures usually the yeast lives in a balance with lactobacillii as the two dominants that like that acidity and temperature range and thrive (thereby out-competing everything else that might want to live in there, mostly by maintaining that high acidity). Lactobacilli gives the milkier, creamier, sweeter side of a sourdough starter- almost a ripe banana smell- where as the wild yeast gives more of the acetic side- the vinegar sharpness and acidity.

For sourdough there's a sweet spot for the ratio of sourdough starter to the flour and water added so that the culture is strong enough to repopulate and there is enough food to keep it happy; might it be the same with your yogurt culture?

I'm not familiar with how a yogurt culture is maintained but Lactobacillii are certainly a part of yogurt culture, I am guessing like a sourdough culture it is fed on a regular schedule, and kept in a temperature range, and some part of the culture is always kept and refreshed?
__________________
Reply With Quote
Thanks, from:
lisarea (01-04-2020), Stormlight (02-07-2020)
  #13  
Old 01-04-2020, 06:16 PM
lisarea's Avatar
lisarea lisarea is offline
Solitary, poor, nasty, brutish, and short
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: XVMMDCCCXXIII
Blog Entries: 1
Images: 3
Default Re: In which I form a monster so hideous that even I turn from him in disgust

I am nowhere near as fussy with the yogurt as I am with sourdough. I'm not super-fussy with that either, but yeah, I keep it at room temperature when I'm using it, discard some, and weigh the flour and water to feed it once or twice a day to keep it active.

So some time, well over a year ago, I bought some plain yogurt at the store and made a batch of yogurt with that. Since then, whenever we start to run out of yogurt, I make a new batch with the previous batch. I'm not careful about it at all, in any way. I don't measure anything, I don't keep a separate starter, and I'll just use whatever milk or cream I have. I'm very much sloppy and imprecise about the whole thing.

But I was reading different fermenting and culturing forums recently for other reasons, and I found a bunch of people saying it doesn't work that way, and that if you want a perpetual yogurt, you need to start with an heirloom culture and be careful in maintaining it. They were saying that a store bought culture will last two or three cycles at most. But Matlock eats yogurt every day. It's been dozens of batches. I started a new batch last night and it came out perfect like it always does.

But then I'm thinking, well, yogurt got started somehow originally, probably accidentally at first. And maybe my yogurt either started with a robust local culture (the default yogurt cultures are Streptococcus thermophilus and Lactobacillus bulgaricus), or it picked something up out of the air like a sourdough starter does.

Maybe I should sell my fancy Colorado heirloom yogurt culture.
Reply With Quote
Thanks, from:
chunksmediocrites (01-04-2020), Crumb (01-05-2020), Qingdai (01-08-2020), Stormlight (02-07-2020)
  #14  
Old 01-27-2020, 03:00 AM
Corona688's Avatar
Corona688 Corona688 is offline
Forum Killer
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: MVLXVI
Default Re: In which I form a monster so hideous that even I turn from him in disgust

I don't know how they'd stop a store-bought culture from propagating. They can't impair its ability to reproduce without impairing its ability to work.
__________________
Reply With Quote
Thanks, from:
lisarea (01-27-2020), Stormlight (02-07-2020)
  #15  
Old 01-27-2020, 05:39 PM
lisarea's Avatar
lisarea lisarea is offline
Solitary, poor, nasty, brutish, and short
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: XVMMDCCCXXIII
Blog Entries: 1
Images: 3
Default Re: In which I form a monster so hideous that even I turn from him in disgust

RIGHT? Like it's some kind of suicide culture? I don't really entirely get the whole deal with maintaining live cultures, and I've never used a non-local one, so maybe that's it? If you start with a non-local culture, it eventually dies out because the environment doesn't support it or something? But then, why would those heritage cultures work at all? They're from entirely different places. I've found a bunch of different people saying it doesn't work, but I haven't found anyone explaining why.

I just made a new batch yesterday, and it came out fine, as usual.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 03-07-2020, 05:34 AM
lisarea's Avatar
lisarea lisarea is offline
Solitary, poor, nasty, brutish, and short
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: XVMMDCCCXXIII
Blog Entries: 1
Images: 3
Default Re: In which I form a monster so hideous that even I turn from him in disgust

It is with a heavy heart that I come to inform you that the magical yogurt culture is gone.

It did not fail. It was inadvertently consumed, so that it could no longer be propagated, and I have started a new one.

The Yogurt Culture is dead. Long live The Yogurt Culture. (Watch my Instant Pot Cyberbulling thread for other updates on that.)

In other news, I started some diastatic malt powder last night, which is supposed to boost sourdough, and it has already started sprouting, so I am feeling pretty good about that, too.
Reply With Quote
Thanks, from:
BrotherMan (03-07-2020), ceptimus (03-07-2020), JoeP (03-07-2020), Sock Puppet (03-09-2020)
  #17  
Old 03-09-2020, 12:46 AM
lisarea's Avatar
lisarea lisarea is offline
Solitary, poor, nasty, brutish, and short
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: XVMMDCCCXXIII
Blog Entries: 1
Images: 3
Default Re: In which I form a monster so hideous that even I turn from him in disgust

OK. Now what do I do with this diastatic malt powder?

And I saw someone else say that you should NOT use it in a regular sourdough bread, and now I don't know what to think. Should I just use it for pretzels and bagels or something? Commercial yeast breads?

Do I add it to the autolyse or the final dough or what?
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 03-09-2020, 01:16 AM
Basset Hound's Avatar
Basset Hound Basset Hound is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: The Dog House
Gender: Male
Posts: CXXIII
Default Re: In which I form a monster so hideous that even I turn from him in disgust

Put the malt powder out. The mice will come for it. Then the cats will eat the mice.
Reply With Quote
Thanks, from:
lisarea (03-09-2020)
  #19  
Old 03-09-2020, 01:31 AM
lisarea's Avatar
lisarea lisarea is offline
Solitary, poor, nasty, brutish, and short
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: XVMMDCCCXXIII
Blog Entries: 1
Images: 3
Default Re: In which I form a monster so hideous that even I turn from him in disgust

And one of my dogs would eat the cats! Perfect!
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 03-09-2020, 10:23 AM
JoeP's Avatar
JoeP JoeP is online now
Chaos Defrost
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: England/Miisaland
Gender: Male
Posts: XXXCXXIV
Images: 18
Default Re: In which I form a monster so hideous that even I turn from him in disgust

And then the wolves will eat the dog!
__________________

:roadrun:
Free thought! Please take one!

:unitedkingdom:   :southafrica:   :unitedkingdom::finland:       :eur:       :m&ms::m&ms::twix::twix: (rotated 180°):m&ms::m&ms:
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 03-09-2020, 05:13 PM
lisarea's Avatar
lisarea lisarea is offline
Solitary, poor, nasty, brutish, and short
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: XVMMDCCCXXIII
Blog Entries: 1
Images: 3
Default Re: In which I form a monster so hideous that even I turn from him in disgust

You people are trying to force me to post the "I get the cat skins" scene again, but I'm not taking the bait.
Reply With Quote
Thanks, from:
BrotherMan (03-09-2020)
  #22  
Old 03-09-2020, 05:37 PM
JoeP's Avatar
JoeP JoeP is online now
Chaos Defrost
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: England/Miisaland
Gender: Male
Posts: XXXCXXIV
Images: 18
Default Re: In which I form a monster so hideous that even I turn from him in disgust

That's the kind of thing you say shortly before you give in and actually do the thing you insist you won't.
__________________

:roadrun:
Free thought! Please take one!

:unitedkingdom:   :southafrica:   :unitedkingdom::finland:       :eur:       :m&ms::m&ms::twix::twix: (rotated 180°):m&ms::m&ms:
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 03-09-2020, 07:01 PM
lisarea's Avatar
lisarea lisarea is offline
Solitary, poor, nasty, brutish, and short
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: XVMMDCCCXXIII
Blog Entries: 1
Images: 3
Default Re: In which I form a monster so hideous that even I turn from him in disgust

The cat skins and the homunculuses are completely different business plans, though.

This is the video you get in this thread.

Reply With Quote
Thanks, from:
BrotherMan (03-09-2020), Sock Puppet (03-09-2020)
  #24  
Old 03-09-2020, 08:16 PM
BrotherMan's Avatar
BrotherMan BrotherMan is offline
A Very Gentle Bort
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Bortlandia
Gender: Male
Posts: XVMCCCXCVIII
Blog Entries: 5
Images: 63
Default Re: In which I form a monster so hideous that even I turn from him in disgust

Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeP View Post
And then the wolves will eat the dog!
:glare:
__________________
\V/_
I COVLD TEACh YOV BVT I MVST LEVY A FEE
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 03-21-2020, 07:26 AM
Corona688's Avatar
Corona688 Corona688 is offline
Forum Killer
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: MVLXVI
Default Re: In which I form a monster so hideous that even I turn from him in disgust

Quote:
Originally Posted by lisarea View Post
RIGHT? Like it's some kind of suicide culture? I don't really entirely get the whole deal with maintaining live cultures, and I've never used a non-local one, so maybe that's it? If you start with a non-local culture, it eventually dies out because the environment doesn't support it or something? But then, why would those heritage cultures work at all? They're from entirely different places. I've found a bunch of different people saying it doesn't work, but I haven't found anyone explaining why.
Best guess, commercial strains are bred for production over survival -- too domesticated to compete with wild organisms. Eventually they get out-competed by a less helpful organism.
__________________
Reply With Quote
Thanks, from:
JoeP (03-21-2020), lisarea (03-21-2020)
Reply

  Freethought Forum > The Public Baths > Food & Drink


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

 

All times are GMT +1. The time now is 03:09 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Page generated in 0.59055 seconds with 13 queries