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Old 08-17-2006, 06:18 PM
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Angry I'm in my jet and I can't get out!

This falls more under the 'Technology' side of this subforum. Pesci, don't you work on these birds?

Anyway, apparently they had some trouble with the canopy of USAF's newest high-tech aircraft, the F-22 Raptor. Mechanics were trying to find the source of a canopy malfunction indication and during the course of their search, the canopy stuck closed and locked down. The pilot was trapped inside for 5 hours and it was with significant damage to the aircraft that they were finally able to free him.

There's your tax dollars at work! But you could probably blame the damn engineers who designed the thing.

The post icon is for the guy trapped inside, "Let me out!"
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Old 08-18-2006, 01:29 AM
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Default Re: I'm in my jet and I can't get out!

It's kind of an old story, dating April 6th. I wondered why they didn't just cut the canopy plexiglas (They are made out of some sort of plexiglas, aren't they?) out instead of fucking up the plane, then let the mechanics have at dismantling the plane to the point where they could get at the latch mechanism.
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Old 08-18-2006, 04:06 AM
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Default Re: I'm in my jet and I can't get out!

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Originally Posted by Dingfod
It's kind of an old story, dating April 6th.
Definitely an old story. When I get back to work, I'll see if I can dig up whatever info they've provided to the public regarding that incident.
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Old 08-18-2006, 07:05 AM
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Default Re: I'm in my jet and I can't get out!

If the USAF needs a way to recuperate money lost they can talk to the CIA.
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Old 08-19-2006, 12:43 AM
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Default Re: I'm in my jet and I can't get out!

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Originally Posted by peepnklown
If the USAF needs a way to recuperate money lost they can talk to the CIA.
:scratch:
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Old 08-19-2006, 12:49 AM
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Default Re: I'm in my jet and I can't get out!

One of my coworkers is also attending my class, so I talked to him today. The problem had been resolved first part of June. When I get back to work, I'll get a quote from Aerospace Daily or some other publication as to the cause [ETA: it was a screw that had worked it's way loose]. I asked whether there wasn't something less destructive they could have done to get the canopy off. He said (paraphrasing):
"The canopy was stuck in the position for altitude and speed flying. There is a hand crank available if the regular canopy lifters malfunction, but in this case, a screw had worked loose and caused the canopy to be jammed. The hand crank can't work with the canopy jammed like that either. The only other option was for the pilot to use the canopy latch explosives which would have activated the ejection seat in addition to blowing the canopy, but that would have been really destructive [to the pilot]!"
They did cut the plexiglas (or whatever it's made of) in order to get the pilot out, from what it looks like in the photo of the article.

[Also edited to add italics to a part of the above quote.]

Last edited by pescifish; 08-19-2006 at 09:27 AM.
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Old 08-19-2006, 12:54 AM
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Default Re: I'm in my jet and I can't get out!

See, what I'd have done is, roll the plane out onto the tarmac, then hit the eject button.
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Old 08-19-2006, 12:56 AM
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Default Re: I'm in my jet and I can't get out!

Quote:
Originally Posted by quiet bear
See, what I'd have done is, roll the plane out onto the tarmac, then hit the eject button.
And if the cockpit STILL doesn't open?
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Old 08-19-2006, 01:00 AM
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Default Re: I'm in my jet and I can't get out!

Think positive, Corona!
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Old 08-19-2006, 04:10 AM
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Default Re: I'm in my jet and I can't get out!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Corona688
Quote:
Originally Posted by quiet bear
See, what I'd have done is, roll the plane out onto the tarmac, then hit the eject button.
And if the cockpit STILL doesn't open?
SQUISH!!!!
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Old 08-20-2006, 04:58 PM
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Default Re: I'm in my jet and I can't get out!

The canopy is made from Lexan, a very durable plastic. My motorcycle windshield if made of the same stuff.
The F-22 is a bad ass plane, but I'd like to see the F-35 in action.
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Old 08-20-2006, 06:24 PM
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Default Re: I'm in my jet and I can't get out!

Some ejection systems (I'm not sure about the F22) don't bother to get rid of the canopy before the ejector seat is fired. The top of the pilot's seat just smashes the canopy on the way out. Some canopies have an explosive cord embedded in them, for the purpose of shattering the canopy during ejection.
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Old 08-20-2006, 09:48 PM
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Default Re: I'm in my jet and I can't get out!

From what I understand, the F-22 has the explosives.

And in case quiet bear wasn't just going for the big ol' joke there, the reason they did not use the canopy explosives was to avoid having a ground level eject initiated. As suggested by my coworker, while it's possible to eject while on the ground, it's very high risk for the pilot compared to an in-air eject.
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Old 08-20-2006, 09:54 PM
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Default Re: I'm in my jet and I can't get out!

Maybe they could calculate the trajectory and set up the kind of net that circuses use to catch the people shot out of a cannon.
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Old 08-20-2006, 09:57 PM
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Default Re: I'm in my jet and I can't get out!

Quote:
Originally Posted by J.T.
The F-22 is a bad ass plane, but I'd like to see the F-35 in action.
F-35 flight testing will start within a year or so. Did you see the latest announcement?

From F-35 Could Fly Pilotless:
Quote:
The idea has been in the works for two years, Lockheed Vice President Frank Mauro said at a briefing yesterday. He provided few details but said the plane could be built as an interchangeable hybrid -- manned by a pilot for some missions and operated remotely for others.
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Old 08-20-2006, 09:58 PM
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Default Re: I'm in my jet and I can't get out!

Really though, couldn't any fly-by-wire plane be flown by remote control?
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Old 08-20-2006, 11:36 PM
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Default Re: I'm in my jet and I can't get out!

I think a solid argument can be made for that, yup.

Remote piloting a plane is a difficult task, but technically quite feasible and already proven with several existing remote piloted UAVs (unmanned aerial vehicles). Also, we've got plenty of mostly autonomous vehicles flying where there is no human pilot, on-board or on the ground (command directed UAVs).

For any UAV, on-board sensors need to provide enough information to overcome the loss of the pilot's full spectrum of senses. Flight control laws must have high orders of contingency decision trees to detect and react to whatever flight situation occurs. Data links between vehicle and command control station must have large bandwidth and minimal delays.

And assuming that's done adequately, there's much more to a combat mission than simply flying. Situational awareness is essential. There has to be enough sensor and data collection capability to communicate critical information to the decision making processes for all aspects and goals of a mission.

Data analysis, data link sharing between mission resources and in-flight displays have become highly developed since the beginning of manned flight. In manned flight, they are used to augment the pilot's own senses. It's a leap, but not hard to imagine, that this relationship can flip-flop such that the pilot is there to augment the electronic tools instead of the other way around.
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Old 09-11-2006, 09:55 PM
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Default Re: I'm in my jet and I can't get out!

Quote:
Originally Posted by quiet bear
See, what I'd have done is, roll the plane out onto the tarmac, then hit the eject button.
That still doesn't solve the problem of the pilot necessarily surviving without harm. Ejector seats are meant to be used in the air, not on the ground. Even that pilot that punched out of the MiG-21 at the Paris Airshow some years ago — he was doing a low-level, high-AOA maneuver when one engine shut down — had his chute just barely open before he hit the ground. 'Course, he didn't exactly eject vertically, either.

No, rolling down the runway still runs the risk of further damage to the aircraft. Flying it up to eject and then having it crash would be even worse.
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