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Old 09-15-2015, 08:57 PM
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Default It's not a skin problem, it's a SIN problem

So, someone I know from grad school posted this and explicitly asked for my thoughts on it. And I turned out to have more thoughts than I was planning to have, so I figured it was worth posting here.

But there's a common thing with Christians to use the phrase which is the title. This acquaintance is an evangelical Christian libertarian, to give you some context.

Quote:
There's an article going around Facebook that claims an official at Liberty University (David Nasser) thinks "Cops shoot unarmed black people because of sin, not racism." ( Liberty U pastor tells Bernie Sanders that cops shoot unarmed black people because of sin — not racism)

First, I believe policy change is an absolute necessity to bring racial justice, and legal/institutional steps to modify behavior should be taken in this case, even if they don't result in changing *who* people are or eliminating their sin. Thinking exclusively in a political way: justice, protection, and rights come first, and heart change isn't the government's job. That's my position, so of course I would have serious objections to someone who said "This is a sin issue, not a racism issue," because that implies political or institutional action is not a priority to move toward justice.

That said, in talking about vital issues like this, we should take extra caution to be fair to our opponents. After watching the clip, I interpreted Nasser's position to be closer to this: "We agree with Bernie Sanders strongly about political reform, but we want to go deeper than political steps can go. We think that what leads to racism is the sinful heart of racist people. So we want to fight racism NOT ONLY politically, but ALSO socially, relationally, and spiritually, with the goal to change racist people's identity, not just their behavior." He could have said it more clearly, but that's how I understood him. And isn't it true that our assumptions and allegiances affect how generous we are likely to be in interpreting imprecisely worded statements?
I listened to the video very carefully twice, and to my knowledge, he never said what the title of the article indicates he said: "because of sin--NOT racism," as if they were two different things. That may be how RawStory interpreted what he said, but (1) it's not what he said, (2) I don't think it's what he meant, and (3) it's far more inflammatory than what he actually said, which was "It's not so much a skin issue as it is a sin issue."

Taken in context, Nasser appears to emphatically agree with Sanders, but tries to make the point that racism is heart deep, not skin deep, meaning that political/legal steps are necessary, but not enough. (Specifically, what I hold is that the gospel is the solution to racist hearts, because it places everyone in the same position under sin and on the wrong side of God's justice and goodness, and then through faith it unites them to Christ. Being united to Christ is a comprehensive rewriting of a person's identity, and the progressive outworking of that leads to a fundamental alteration in how they see other people. Where the true gospel is embraced, racism is eradicated. "From now on, therefore, we regard no one according to the flesh." 2 Corinthians 5:16)

My concern is that if we are going to critique an opponent's position, we MUST state their position in terms they would recognize as their position. Otherwise, our opponents just feel misunderstood and caricatured, which prevents productive dialogue. So, RawStory should change the title of this article. Scroll down my timeline for an example of the conservative misrepresentations of Obama during the elections last November. These are just two examples from the daily mudsling.

It's almost like conservative and liberal journalists need a heart change.
My response is below:
Quote:
While I agree that he probably should not be understood as saying that "sin" and "racism" are mutually exclusive categories, I think it is not a particularly helpful way to think about the issue. Because the roots of racism are not simply in malice but also in ignorance, false beliefs, unfamiliarity and social segregation. Keep in mind, also, that most people *do not view themselves as racist*. One could try to say that ignorance is sinful, or something like that, but that is not what people would normally think of when you say the problem is "sin". Those false beliefs often arise from societal messages propagated through media and educational systems. But would someone understand that the Texas school board downplaying slavery in middle school textbooks is part of the problem when you say "it's a sin problem"? Segregation between races is promoted by many policies and behaviors that don't seem overtly "sinful", and many white Christians would find it strange to say it is sinful not to go out of your way to incorporate black people into your social group. Yet for many white people, that's what they feel they would have to do since life in America is set up that way. It's unclear that more Christianity in already majority Christian America would address these problems.

Also "Where the true gospel is embraced, racism is eradicated." is simply a "No true Scotsman" fallacy. As far as I've seen, there's little to no correlation between Christianity and anti-racism. It might even go in the opposite direction because religious institutions tend to be racially/ethnically homogeneous and often promote in-group/out-group thinking. See, for example: Why Donā€™t We Practice What We Preach? A Meta-Analytic Review of Religious Racism But if you simply define anyone who is racist as not truly united to Christ, you can claim that those people are not true Christians. But unfortunately, there's no evidence that promoting Christianity leads to only "true Christians" by that definition. So you'll have to go a bit deeper than simply saying to embrace Jesus harder.

The fact is that racism in America is primarily propagated by Christians, as the majority of the country is Christian. And in the past, when there was Jim Crow, and lynchings, and slavery, America was even more Christian. Saying it's a sin problem suggests that racists in America are not concerned with sin and don't have deeply religious feelings. In light of that, the suggestion that Christianity is the unique solution to racism is not simply strange to non-Christians, but can seem like an excuse for Christians to avoid addressing their own behavior and beliefs and continue doing what they were going to do anyway (i.e. proselytizing). Christians saying we need more Christianity is not a new solution, it is the *status quo*. It requires nothing of Christians. That is why it is seen as dismissing the problem of racism. The concrete policy changes that Sanders suggests and Nasser dismisses as not reaching the root of the "sin problem" are a far, far more effective approach. Nasser ignores that changing behavior (through, for example, policies aimed at reducing social segregation) can change hearts.

His bizarre followup about wanting black people to own buses and restaurants only reinforces the interpretation that his position is aimed more at avoiding real solutions to racism than at solving it. It ignores that starting a business usually requires capital and that historical and ongoing discrimination have denied black people that capital (not just through slavery, but through the Jim Crow era, through redlining, predatory finance and other exploitative policies that have continued through today). I find that statement as suggesting he simply wants to create policies that help small businesses (although such policies are often actually more helpful to large businesses, but sold as being good for small businesses) ignoring the fact that such policies help people who are well-off far more than those who are struggling. It is a solution that helps the kind of people who attend Liberty University more than it would help black people in poverty. Again, it is a solution that requires nothing of his audience.

It's fine to say that racism is rooted in sin, but only if you pair that with a deeper analysis that does not simply let people off the hook from enacting the solutions that would address it.
This argument is not something that I see only white (or, in Nasser's case, Middle Eastern) Christians making. For example, the same trope from a black Christian went viral on Facebook last year::
https://www.facebook.com/BenjaminWat...02172116576590

While I doubt it's intended, consciously or unconsciously, to let white people off the hook, that argument still seems that way even coming from him. Maybe a black person saying that sees it as saying to white racists "you are sinful and you should change if you truly love Jesus" but since most white racists don't consider themselves racist, it actually does nothing if not paired with an analysis of racism that digs deeper. It going viral does not surprise me, as I'm sure plenty of white Christians who would rather do nothing about racism find it a message that resonates. More Bible, more Jesus, that's the solution! Good thing I already thought that!
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Old 09-15-2015, 09:49 PM
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Default Re: It's not a skin problem, it's a SIN problem

I have never heard this saying before. It is all about unconsciously letting white people and racist institutions off the hook. Can't do anything about that since Adam ate the apple, black people are wishing for unicorns!

More on this next year when I have more concentration.
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Old 09-15-2015, 10:13 PM
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Default Re: It's not a skin problem, it's a SIN problem

I don't have much in the way of comment or critique. I think there is something to wanting to deal with the Christian Racist-Sinner problem within the greater Christian community. I don't know how effective it will be. That's largely dependent on how they implement the philosophy and just what the philosophy says.

But from the view of society at large we can't wait around for them to hug it out. Real world people are being oppressed, denied and killed because of the institutional nature of racism.
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Old 09-16-2015, 05:56 AM
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Default Re: It's not a skin problem, it's a SIN problem

Quote:
Being united to Christ is a comprehensive rewriting of a person's identity, and the progressive outworking of that leads to a fundamental alteration in how they see other people.
This sentence in particular caught my attention. I agree with the proposition that "[b]eing united to Christ is a comprehensive rewriting of a person's identity". I also agree with the proposition that the "progressive outworking of that leads to a fundamental alteration in how they see other people". However, there is two-fold problem with this. In the first place, this progressive outworking can take a very long time. In the second place, it may not happen at all. In theological terms this is the problem of sanctification. The rewriting of a person's identity does not necessarily result in an immediate rewriting the person's personality, character and behavior. The rewriting of a person's personality, character and behavior requires a lot of hard work over one's entire lifetime. Sometimes it doesn't happen at all. In short, getting saved is not an easy fix for all that might be wrong in a person's life. It seems to me then that getting everyone in a society saved is also not an easy fix for all that might be wrong with that society. Whether we are talking about an individual or a society, the hard work of transformation still needs to be done. That hard work entails the same degree of committment, dedication and persistence and the same strategies regardless of whether or not everyone, or even anyone, in that society is saved. In other words, solving the endemic problems of a society requires that the individual members of that society change their problematic behaviors. This is the case whether or not those individuals have a saving relationship with Jesus Christ.
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Old 10-14-2015, 07:58 PM
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Default Re: It's not a skin problem, it's a SIN problem

Coincidentally, Mike Huckabee tweeted out this inanity during the Democratic debate (I assume during the Black Lives Matter question):

Just a few minutes later, he followed it up with:

Also I wish I could embed these tweets, because it would look prettier (in terms of formatting... Huckabee would still be ugly).
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Old 10-14-2015, 08:33 PM
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Default Re: It's not a skin problem, it's a SIN problem

Quote:
Originally Posted by erimir View Post
Also I wish I could embed these tweets, because it would look prettier
:thinkup:







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Old 10-14-2015, 08:37 PM
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Default Re: It's not a skin problem, it's a SIN problem

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Click the ... ; Embed tweet ; copy the text
You need to be html-empowered
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Old 10-14-2015, 08:48 PM
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Default Re: It's not a skin problem, it's a SIN problem

You suck up to liv or vm. You may have to present offerings, like a smilie search feature, that's what I had to do.
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Old 10-14-2015, 09:06 PM
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Default Re: It's not a skin problem, it's a SIN problem

So did Huckabee just sin? :wha:
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Old 10-15-2015, 03:22 PM
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Default Re: It's not a skin problem, it's a SIN problem

The latter tweet is really bad considering Huckabee's son kilt him a dawg.
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Old 10-15-2015, 03:46 PM
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Default Re: It's not a skin problem, it's a SIN problem

Quote:
Originally Posted by erimir View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeP View Post
Click the ... ; Embed tweet ; copy the text
You need to be html-empowered
How do I get the powah?
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Old 10-15-2015, 03:56 PM
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Default Re: It's not a skin problem, it's a SIN problem

I have heard US admins still take cheques.
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Old 10-15-2015, 05:49 PM
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Default Re: It's not a skin problem, it's a SIN problem

You'll have to find one first though.
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Old 10-15-2015, 06:00 PM
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Default Re: It's not a skin problem, it's a SIN problem







:powerdawkins:
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