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  #51  
Old 04-15-2016, 03:16 AM
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Default Re: Was God creating Satan a good idea?

My bad. That first sentence was supposed to have a question mark at the end. I have fixed it.

It certainly looks to me like they are supernatural. But what do I know? I'm just an ignorant old country preacher.
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  #52  
Old 04-15-2016, 03:39 AM
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My bad. That first sentence was supposed to have a question mark at the end. I have fixed it.

It certainly looks to me like they are supernatural. But what do I know? I'm just an ignorant old country preacher.
Yes it sort of puzzled me that you seemed to be indicating that they were not supernatural. Both of these beings are spiritual and do not appear to mortals as strictly physical beings. They may take on a physical form, but usually by inhabiting some physical being, to achieve their ends.
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  #53  
Old 04-15-2016, 09:59 AM
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Default Re: Was God creating Satan a good idea?

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I'm just an ignorant old country preacher.
Americans always have to talk about the old country. Which one are you from Ang?
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  #54  
Old 04-15-2016, 03:32 PM
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thedoc: I actually didnít realise you were a theist. Sorry about that. I did indicate that my list was very unlikely to be complete.
It's OK really, I just wanted to jerk your chain a bit. I know many of my post don't sound like I'm a Theist, but I do believe in God, I just have to rationalize the rest of the Christian/Jewish Mythology. If you really dig deep enough I would say I'm a Lutheran/Buddhist.
Most Buddhists do not have a supernatural aspect to their creed. If I recall correctly, Lutherans do.

Do you?

Regards
DL
Granted Buddhists don't stress the supernatural as much as religions do, but it's there, in the form of beliefs about life after death.

Just look up reincarnation, and enlightenment, which are part of Buddhist belief. Both refer to what happens to a Buddhist after death.
The Buddhist that I know seek wisdom and enlightenment and not some guy in the sky.

Buddhism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"Buddhism denies a creator deity", although some sects do have minor deities.

Theravada Buddhism does not have any supernatural aspects although reincarnation is seen as supernatural to some.

I think Buddhism sees our consciousness as natural though.

A Theravada Buddhist I spoke with denies anything supernatural. Buddha was just a man and that is what they aspire to emulate.

Regards
DL
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  #55  
Old 04-15-2016, 03:35 PM
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Do you?

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DL
Yes.
How much supernatural have you accepted?

Do you believe in the talking serpent and donkey of the bible?

Do you believe in a resurrected man?

What else do you believe of the supernatural?

Regards
DL
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  #56  
Old 04-15-2016, 03:38 PM
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Talk to a Theravada Buddhist and they will tell you that they have no supernatural aspect to their sect. I do speak to how they view reincarnation and consciousness just above.

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DL
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  #57  
Old 04-15-2016, 08:00 PM
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Default Re: Was God creating Satan a good idea?

Buddist Cosmology of the Theravada School

Quote:
The lower devas of the Kama-loka live on different parts of the mountain at the center of the world, Sumeru. They are even more passionate than the higher devas, and do not simply enjoy themselves but also engage in strife and fighting.

7 - Thirty-three gods (Tavatimsa deva) Beings that live on the peak of Sumeru are like the Olympian gods. Their ruler is Sakka or Śakra, a devotee of the Buddha. Sakka rules by righteousness, patience towards aggressors, and compassionate treatment of wrongdoers. Sakka and the devas honor sages and holy men. He earned his place as ruler of the devas by fulfilling seven vows which embody the standards of the virtuous householder while he was still a human being. The Buddha holds up Sakka's patience and forgiveness as a model for the bhikkhus. Many devas dwelling here live in mansions in the air. Besides the thirty-three devas, many other devas and supernatural beings dwell here, including the attendants of the devas and many apsarases (nymphs).
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6 - Four Great Kings (catummaharajika deva) The world of the Four Great Kings includes the martial kings who guard the four quarters of the Earth. The chief of these kings is Vaisravana, but all are ultimately accountable to Sakra. Dhatarattha, king of the Eastern Direction, is lord of the gandhabbas. Virulha, king of the Southern Direction, is lord of the kumbandas. Virupakkha, king of the Western Direction, is lord of the nagas. Kuvera, who rules as king of the Northern Direction, is lord of the yakkhas. The devas who guide the Sun and Moon are also part of this world.
This is home to the four types of earthly demigod or nature-spirit: Gandhabba - the celestial musicians or fairies Yakkha - tree spirits of varying degrees of ethical purity. They are analogous to the goblins, trolls, ogres, and fairies of Western fairy tales. They inhabit remote areas such as forests, hills, and abandoned caves. Though living in misery they have the potential for awakening and can attain the path and fruits of the spiritual life.
Nothing supernatural there, nothing at all.
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  #58  
Old 04-15-2016, 08:27 PM
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Default Re: Was God creating Satan a good idea?

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I'm just an ignorant old country preacher.
Americans always have to talk about the old country. Which one are you from Ang?
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  #59  
Old 04-15-2016, 11:33 PM
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Default Re: Was God creating Satan a good idea?

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Buddist Cosmology of the Theravada School

Quote:
The lower devas of the Kama-loka live on different parts of the mountain at the center of the world, Sumeru. They are even more passionate than the higher devas, and do not simply enjoy themselves but also engage in strife and fighting.

7 - Thirty-three gods (Tavatimsa deva) Beings that live on the peak of Sumeru are like the Olympian gods. Their ruler is Sakka or Śakra, a devotee of the Buddha. Sakka rules by righteousness, patience towards aggressors, and compassionate treatment of wrongdoers. Sakka and the devas honor sages and holy men. He earned his place as ruler of the devas by fulfilling seven vows which embody the standards of the virtuous householder while he was still a human being. The Buddha holds up Sakka's patience and forgiveness as a model for the bhikkhus. Many devas dwelling here live in mansions in the air. Besides the thirty-three devas, many other devas and supernatural beings dwell here, including the attendants of the devas and many apsarases (nymphs).
Quote:
6 - Four Great Kings (catummaharajika deva) The world of the Four Great Kings includes the martial kings who guard the four quarters of the Earth. The chief of these kings is Vaisravana, but all are ultimately accountable to Sakra. Dhatarattha, king of the Eastern Direction, is lord of the gandhabbas. Virulha, king of the Southern Direction, is lord of the kumbandas. Virupakkha, king of the Western Direction, is lord of the nagas. Kuvera, who rules as king of the Northern Direction, is lord of the yakkhas. The devas who guide the Sun and Moon are also part of this world.
This is home to the four types of earthly demigod or nature-spirit: Gandhabba - the celestial musicians or fairies Yakkha - tree spirits of varying degrees of ethical purity. They are analogous to the goblins, trolls, ogres, and fairies of Western fairy tales. They inhabit remote areas such as forests, hills, and abandoned caves. Though living in misery they have the potential for awakening and can attain the path and fruits of the spiritual life.
Nothing supernatural there, nothing at all.
Some people just don't know when to quit.
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  #60  
Old 04-15-2016, 11:37 PM
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Default Re: Was God creating Satan a good idea?

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thedoc: I actually didn’t realise you were a theist. Sorry about that. I did indicate that my list was very unlikely to be complete.
It's OK really, I just wanted to jerk your chain a bit. I know many of my post don't sound like I'm a Theist, but I do believe in God, I just have to rationalize the rest of the Christian/Jewish Mythology. If you really dig deep enough I would say I'm a Lutheran/Buddhist.
Most Buddhists do not have a supernatural aspect to their creed. If I recall correctly, Lutherans do.

Do you?

Regards
DL
Granted Buddhists don't stress the supernatural as much as religions do, but it's there, in the form of beliefs about life after death.

Just look up reincarnation, and enlightenment, which are part of Buddhist belief. Both refer to what happens to a Buddhist after death.
The Buddhist that I know seek wisdom and enlightenment and not some guy in the sky.

Buddhism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"Buddhism denies a creator deity", although some sects do have minor deities.

Theravada Buddhism does not have any supernatural aspects although reincarnation is seen as supernatural to some.

I think Buddhism sees our consciousness as natural though.

A Theravada Buddhist I spoke with denies anything supernatural. Buddha was just a man and that is what they aspire to emulate.

Regards
DL
As your article states there are many sects of Buddhism, and they don't all hold to the same core beliefs. Your characterization of "many" seems to be based on the statements of one, and a very limited reading list.

When you have talked to more then just one or read the ideas of many, perhaps I'll give some credence to what you post. As it stands, you don't seem to understand all you think you know about Buddhism.
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  #61  
Old 04-15-2016, 11:46 PM
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Default Re: Was God creating Satan a good idea?

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The Buddhist that I know seek wisdom and enlightenment and not some guy in the sky.
I did not claim that Buddhists believed in "some guy in the sky", but some Buddhist believe in an entity that exists, and that the Buddhist consciousness joins after death, it has been referred to as "one mind", "no mind", "universal mind", "non-dualism", "universal consciousness", and possibly a few more titles.
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  #62  
Old 04-15-2016, 11:57 PM
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Do you?

Regards
DL
Yes.
How much supernatural have you accepted?

Do you believe in the talking serpent and donkey of the bible?

Do you believe in a resurrected man?

What else do you believe of the supernatural?

Regards
DL

I believe in God and I accept that the trinity is an expression of God.

I also believe that the Judaeo/Christian Mythology has many good Lesson to teach just as parables and fables, but there is much that is exaggerated by the human writers, to impress a violent, Bronze age people.

I leave the rest up to God, as I believe in God's goodness, and having my best interest at heart.
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  #63  
Old 04-16-2016, 12:02 AM
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I'm just an ignorant old country preacher.
Americans always have to talk about the old country. Which one are you from Ang?
That's a really old country, and it's good to be from, - far from.
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  #64  
Old 04-16-2016, 08:01 PM
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Buddist Cosmology of the Theravada School

Quote:
The lower devas of the Kama-loka live on different parts of the mountain at the center of the world, Sumeru. They are even more passionate than the higher devas, and do not simply enjoy themselves but also engage in strife and fighting.

7 - Thirty-three gods (Tavatimsa deva) Beings that live on the peak of Sumeru are like the Olympian gods. Their ruler is Sakka or Śakra, a devotee of the Buddha. Sakka rules by righteousness, patience towards aggressors, and compassionate treatment of wrongdoers. Sakka and the devas honor sages and holy men. He earned his place as ruler of the devas by fulfilling seven vows which embody the standards of the virtuous householder while he was still a human being. The Buddha holds up Sakka's patience and forgiveness as a model for the bhikkhus. Many devas dwelling here live in mansions in the air. Besides the thirty-three devas, many other devas and supernatural beings dwell here, including the attendants of the devas and many apsarases (nymphs).
Quote:
6 - Four Great Kings (catummaharajika deva) The world of the Four Great Kings includes the martial kings who guard the four quarters of the Earth. The chief of these kings is Vaisravana, but all are ultimately accountable to Sakra. Dhatarattha, king of the Eastern Direction, is lord of the gandhabbas. Virulha, king of the Southern Direction, is lord of the kumbandas. Virupakkha, king of the Western Direction, is lord of the nagas. Kuvera, who rules as king of the Northern Direction, is lord of the yakkhas. The devas who guide the Sun and Moon are also part of this world.
This is home to the four types of earthly demigod or nature-spirit: Gandhabba - the celestial musicians or fairies Yakkha - tree spirits of varying degrees of ethical purity. They are analogous to the goblins, trolls, ogres, and fairies of Western fairy tales. They inhabit remote areas such as forests, hills, and abandoned caves. Though living in misery they have the potential for awakening and can attain the path and fruits of the spiritual life.
Nothing supernatural there, nothing at all.
Talk to a Theravada Buddhist and you will see that I did not ere.

If you read the Gnostic Christian Gospels you also see a lot of supernatural aspects but we, like I understand Theravada Buddhist to be, do not read our scriptures and holy books literally.

Regards
DL
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  #65  
Old 04-16-2016, 08:05 PM
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The Buddhist that I know seek wisdom and enlightenment and not some guy in the sky.
I did not claim that Buddhists believed in "some guy in the sky", but some Buddhist believe in an entity that exists, and that the Buddhist consciousness joins after death, it has been referred to as "one mind", "no mind", "universal mind", "non-dualism", "universal consciousness", and possibly a few more titles.
Indeed. All encompassed by, a guy in the sky. Meaning the supernatural.

Regards
DL
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  #66  
Old 04-16-2016, 08:09 PM
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Do you?

Regards
DL
Yes.
How much supernatural have you accepted?

Do you believe in the talking serpent and donkey of the bible?

Do you believe in a resurrected man?

What else do you believe of the supernatural?

Regards
DL

I believe in God and I accept that the trinity is an expression of God.

I also believe that the Judaeo/Christian Mythology has many good Lesson to teach just as parables and fables, but there is much that is exaggerated by the human writers, to impress a violent, Bronze age people.

I leave the rest up to God, as I believe in God's goodness, and having my best interest at heart.
How do you figure that your Guy in the sky God has your best interest at heart?

Your bible states that the vast majority will take the wide road to hell and death while just the few will take the narrow path to heaven.

That seems to indicate that you God does not create for the best possible end the way even nature and a person would when creating a baby.

Where is the best interest if he cannot create for the best possible end?

Regards
DL
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  #67  
Old 04-16-2016, 08:58 PM
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The Buddhist that I know seek wisdom and enlightenment and not some guy in the sky.
I did not claim that Buddhists believed in "some guy in the sky", but some Buddhist believe in an entity that exists, and that the Buddhist consciousness joins after death, it has been referred to as "one mind", "no mind", "universal mind", "non-dualism", "universal consciousness", and possibly a few more titles.
Indeed. All encompassed by, a guy in the sky. Meaning the supernatural.

Regards
DL
The "guy in the sky" would be Anthropomorphism, and I never claimed that Buddhists do that. You really need to learn to read more carefully and then understand what you read.

Just because you say something, doesn't make it so.
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  #68  
Old 04-16-2016, 09:06 PM
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How do you figure that your Guy in the sky God has your best interest at heart?

Your bible states that the vast majority will take the wide road to hell and death while just the few will take the narrow path to heaven.

That seems to indicate that you God does not create for the best possible end the way even nature and a person would when creating a baby.

Where is the best interest if he cannot create for the best possible end?

Regards
DL
I don't figure it, I posted that I "believe it". What part of "believe" don't you understand?

Believing is optional, not mandatory.

If a choice is mandatory, where is the value in that?

The best end is possible, but the individual must accept it, otherwise it has no value.
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  #69  
Old 04-16-2016, 09:12 PM
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Talk to a Theravada Buddhist and you will see that I did not ere.

Regards
DL
Theravada Buddhism is one school of Buddhism, but not the only one, just as there are many denominations of Christianity. Not everyone believes the same thing. I'm a Lutheran, and I don't believe the Pope is the supreme authority on Christianity. So a Theravada Buddhist is not the supreme authority on Buddhism, but this person might know what that sect believes. Some who claim to be members of a particular order, don't always know everything about that order.
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Old 04-17-2016, 12:20 AM
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Default Re: Was God creating Satan a good idea?

Did you know?

Jews don't recognize Jesus as the Messiah.

Protestants don't recognize the Pope as the head of the Christian Church.

Baptists don't recognize each other in the liquor store.
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  #71  
Old 04-17-2016, 02:30 AM
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A supply pastor and I were in a conversation, the topic turned to storage of items, and I said "Liquor stores will give boxes away if you ask them." The supply pastor looked at me and with an accusing tone asked "And what were you doing in a liquor store?" I replied "Buying Communion Wine, what else would I buy?"
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  #72  
Old 04-17-2016, 04:12 PM
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Default Re: Was God creating Satan a good idea?

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How do you figure that your Guy in the sky God has your best interest at heart?

Your bible states that the vast majority will take the wide road to hell and death while just the few will take the narrow path to heaven.

That seems to indicate that you God does not create for the best possible end the way even nature and a person would when creating a baby.

Where is the best interest if he cannot create for the best possible end?

Regards
DL
I don't figure it, I posted that I "believe it". What part of "believe" don't you understand?

Believing is optional, not mandatory.

If a choice is mandatory, where is the value in that?

The best end is possible, but the individual must accept it, otherwise it has no value.
Your own book says that the best end is not possible for the vast majority of us so your God is not a worthy God to follow at all.

You say you believe in that vile demiurge.

If so, why are you not doing more than Jesus did since your book says you can?

You should also recognize that the acceptance you speak of is the acceptance of a demonstrably immoral moral tenet that includes the punishment of the innocent instead of the guilty.

So go ahead and sell your soul to Satan while thinking you are selling it to God.

Regards
DL
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  #73  
Old 04-17-2016, 06:14 PM
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Your own book says that the best end is not possible for the vast majority of us so your God is not a worthy God to follow at all.

You say you believe in that vile demiurge.

If so, why are you not doing more than Jesus did since your book says you can?

You should also recognize that the acceptance you speak of is the acceptance of a demonstrably immoral moral tenet that includes the punishment of the innocent instead of the guilty.

So go ahead and sell your soul to Satan while thinking you are selling it to God.

Regards
DL
You are a bit of a hypocrite first you denounce the Bible, and then you try to treat it as accurate to prove your point. I also stated that I believe there are many valuable lessons in the Bible, just as there are lessons in parables and fables. What part of that do you not understand. I have also stated that I do not accept the literal interpretation of the Bible, or didn't you quite get that.
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  #74  
Old 04-17-2016, 08:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Gnostic Christian Bishop View Post
Your own book says that the best end is not possible for the vast majority of us so your God is not a worthy God to follow at all.

You say you believe in that vile demiurge.

If so, why are you not doing more than Jesus did since your book says you can?

You should also recognize that the acceptance you speak of is the acceptance of a demonstrably immoral moral tenet that includes the punishment of the innocent instead of the guilty.

So go ahead and sell your soul to Satan while thinking you are selling it to God.

Regards
DL
You are a bit of a hypocrite first you denounce the Bible, and then you try to treat it as accurate to prove your point. I also stated that I believe there are many valuable lessons in the Bible, just as there are lessons in parables and fables. What part of that do you not understand. I have also stated that I do not accept the literal interpretation of the Bible, or didn't you quite get that.
You have to read the bible literally to some extent to end in believing in Jesus.

So tell us again who is being a hypocrite?

Regards
DL
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Old 04-17-2016, 10:30 PM
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Default Re: Was God creating Satan a good idea?

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Originally Posted by Gnostic Christian Bishop View Post
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Originally Posted by thedoc View Post
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Originally Posted by Gnostic Christian Bishop View Post
Your own book says that the best end is not possible for the vast majority of us so your God is not a worthy God to follow at all.

You say you believe in that vile demiurge.

If so, why are you not doing more than Jesus did since your book says you can?

You should also recognize that the acceptance you speak of is the acceptance of a demonstrably immoral moral tenet that includes the punishment of the innocent instead of the guilty.

So go ahead and sell your soul to Satan while thinking you are selling it to God.

Regards
DL
You are a bit of a hypocrite first you denounce the Bible, and then you try to treat it as accurate to prove your point. I also stated that I believe there are many valuable lessons in the Bible, just as there are lessons in parables and fables. What part of that do you not understand. I have also stated that I do not accept the literal interpretation of the Bible, or didn't you quite get that.
You have to read the bible literally to some extent to end in believing in Jesus.

So tell us again who is being a hypocrite?

Regards
DL
No you don't, you can believe in the story of Jesus, whether you believe he was real or not. You are only being literal, so far as it suits you to disprove the Bible. You are obscurificating the truth to suit your own ends. So if I have to say it again, you are being the hypocrite.
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Angakuk (04-17-2016), The Man (04-17-2016)
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