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  #101  
Old 06-06-2014, 02:48 AM
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Default Re: Why the Mainstream Media Really Sucks

Considering chocolate is poisonous to dogs, and many pot edibles are chocolate based, it's not the THC I would be worried about first if someone isn't responsible enough to keep their dog away from their stash.

That being said, a common on the treat symbol would be a good idea. In California most edibles are packed in sealed foil/wrap with big "medical use only" stickers on them, but once out of the package it's hard to tell.

I'm glad she learned her lesson to treat drugs with more respect, and did so on something completely safe like an edible instead of the "more mundane drugs of choice, chardonnay" (as she puts it) that she was drinking along side the candy bar. Had she got the spins and vomited that night, there wouldn't have been a story.

With things like Hash oil becoming more popular, problems of people dosing too high are just going to continue. Dispensaries should put together a 'first timer mellow pack' of low strength items and suggest it to new customers.
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  #102  
Old 06-06-2014, 03:42 AM
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Default Re: Why the Mainstream Media Really Sucks

Chocolate is poisonous to dogs, but the dosage in a brownie or something probably isn't going to be that bad unless they're tiny.

Pot, on the other hand, can cause some really awful effects even at small doses. I've seen and heard a few stories lately about dogs experiencing real paranoia and longish term personality changes after ingesting pot. I don't know how credible they are, of course, but it's something I wouldn't want to risk.
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  #103  
Old 06-06-2014, 04:57 AM
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Default Re: Why the Mainstream Media Really Sucks

Yeah being unknowingly dosed can certainly be a tramatic or psychologically damaging experience. It didn't sound like the 'reporter' had fun but at least she knew what she was taking. Just suddenly start to have these experiences and I could see it unbalancing your world view.

Just look at the time when the US, trying to weaponize LSD, dosed a group without their knowledge. The people started to panic thinking they were having a psychotic break down. It's even thought that many cases of witchcraft were due to village ergot poisoning (a rye grain fungus with compounds similar to LSD). It's entirely possible we, humans, developed entire religions to explain being unknowingly drugged, I certainly don't expect many dogs to fare better.

Dear Daily Mail, a headline for you: "Is legal pot bringing about the religious awaking of dogs and will it be mankind's downfall?"
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  #104  
Old 06-06-2014, 06:07 AM
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Default Re: Why the Mainstream Media Really Sucks

I think the first timer's mellow pack sounds like a good idea. I do have a question, though. For those who have tried edible pot, does its inclusion in tasty treats affect the taste?
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  #105  
Old 06-06-2014, 06:24 AM
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Default Re: Why the Mainstream Media Really Sucks

Yes, it affects the taste. IMO, not in a positive way. At least with the brownies I had.

Other strains of marijuana have different flavors, I imagine.


We Sadly Need to Make Marijuana Edibles Maureen Dowd-Proof - Firedoglake
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  #106  
Old 06-06-2014, 06:40 AM
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Default Re: Why the Mainstream Media Really Sucks

That last line in the article is a real burn. Not that Maureen Dowd didn't deserve it.
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  #107  
Old 06-06-2014, 07:14 AM
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Default Re: Why the Mainstream Media Really Sucks

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ari View Post
That being said, a common on the treat symbol would be a good idea. In California most edibles are packed in sealed foil/wrap with big "medical use only" stickers on them, but once out of the package it's hard to tell.
YMMV, I guess. I tried taking edibles to football games and places like that, thinking they'd be more discrete than smoking, and those things fucking reeeek! I love the smell of pot, even (especially) the super skunky shit, but the smell and taste of edibles make me gag. :bleh:
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  #108  
Old 06-06-2014, 04:41 PM
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Default Re: Why the Mainstream Media Really Sucks

The edibles I've tried since returning to civilization were mostly p. tasty, I thought. Then again, they tend to be little 1.5-inch squares of brownies or similarly sized cookies, individually wrapped, which I squeezed 2 or 3 doses out of, which means not even a healthy bite at a time. If I'd tried a full dessert-sized serving, I might not be thrilled with the taste. I'd also be in the Twilight Zone for a whole day. In CA I recommend the "Auntie Dolores" brand.

The worst-tasting edible I tried was a sugar cookie made with ground "flower" rather than hash, and it was the least potent, as well. The taffy made with hash oil I tried was similarly yucky and not very potent.

I got a dark chocolate bar recently, and it was even better than the brownies. Tasted like actual dark chocolate, with the barest hint of hash under the surface.
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  #109  
Old 06-06-2014, 06:48 PM
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Default Re: Why the Mainstream Media Really Sucks

So what I'm hearing is there is a lot of variety and I just need to try more samples. Lots and lots and lots more samples. I'm on it!

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  #110  
Old 06-06-2014, 08:43 PM
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Default Re: Why the Mainstream Media Really Sucks

Should dogs even be eating cake?
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  #111  
Old 06-06-2014, 09:49 PM
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Default Re: Why the Mainstream Media Really Sucks

Should dogs be at new year's eve parties is what we asked the guy, which he didn't appreciate...
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  #112  
Old 06-06-2014, 10:10 PM
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Default Re: Why the Mainstream Media Really Sucks

Many years ago I made a pot carrot cake for a Thanksgiving feast at a friend's house. One sliver was enough to couch lock us all for hours. It looked like that field hospital scene in Gone with the Wind. Eventually everyone got their shit together and we proceeded with the more traditional turkey-based festivities. I left the remainder of the cake -- well over half the bundt pan was left -- with the host and hostess.

Sunday he called me saying his wife had gotten into the cake in the middle of the night and wound up binging on it (it was a particularly great carrot cake, if I say so myself). She was apparently just this side of complete madness for 48 hours straight, and this is someone very, very practiced in the ways of mj.

The two lessons of this episode are: 1) even people who know their shit can get lured by tasty treats to cross the line, and 2) spice-based baked goods do an outstanding job of masking that heavy cannabis flavor, significantly more so than chocolate, in my experience.

Last edited by livius drusus; 06-06-2014 at 10:27 PM.
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  #113  
Old 06-06-2014, 11:41 PM
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Default Re: Why the Mainstream Media Really Sucks

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  #114  
Old 06-10-2014, 02:39 AM
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Default Re: Why the Mainstream Media Really Sucks

So I saw this headline about how a computer beat a Turing test, but I had to go do some shit so I couldn't read it. So I went and did that shit, and was thinking about how that's pretty great, and I was totally looking forward to seeing what exact milestone it reached or whatever.

So then, when I am finally done and ready to find out, I find out this.

Following is a non-exhaustive list of who I am mad at right now:

1. Dumb assholes lying in press releases.
2. Dumb media signal boosting press releases without even fucking looking at anything else.
3. Me, for thinking for two seconds that anything some stupid newspaper might actually be telling me something I care about. ESPECIALLY about this kind of thing. They are just super extremely always wrong.
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  #115  
Old 06-10-2014, 05:34 AM
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Default Re: Why the Mainstream Media Really Sucks

It's supposed to be a 13 year old boy from Ukraine, so it's not supposed to be the most fluent English.

An easy way to get out of having to have perfectly fluent English.

I just asked about current events in Ukraine and it was obviously giving canned responses. I don't see why it would be so hard to recognize...
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  #116  
Old 06-10-2014, 05:41 AM
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Default Re: Why the Mainstream Media Really Sucks

In short, what we've learned about artificial intelligence here is that the way to beat the Turing Test is to gather around you a lot of really dumb reporters.
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  #117  
Old 06-10-2014, 11:25 AM
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Default Re: Why the Mainstream Media Really Sucks

That should be easy.
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  #118  
Old 06-10-2014, 01:48 PM
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Default Re: Why the Mainstream Media Really Sucks

And program the computer to lie.
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  #119  
Old 06-10-2014, 02:24 PM
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Default Re: Why the Mainstream Media Really Sucks

Quote:
Originally Posted by lisarea View Post
So I saw this headline about how a computer beat a Turing test, but I had to go do some shit so I couldn't read it. So I went and did that shit, and was thinking about how that's pretty great, and I was totally looking forward to seeing what exact milestone it reached or whatever.

So then, when I am finally done and ready to find out, I find out this.

Following is a non-exhaustive list of who I am mad at right now:

1. Dumb assholes lying in press releases.
2. Dumb media signal boosting press releases without even fucking looking at anything else.
3. Me, for thinking for two seconds that anything some stupid newspaper might actually be telling me something I care about. ESPECIALLY about this kind of thing. They are just super extremely always wrong.
I think the research team is especially culpable in this case. I have some interest in the Turing Test, it makes pretty good sense in some forms. Computers pass versions of the test all the time. I read an article about a person who takes part in some turing tests as a human. His job is to convince people that he is in fact human.

According to the article that I read, one of the programmers who won made a point to say that this was special because the test wasn't limited. The people could talk about anything. In some other tests, the tester may be told this is an expert in Shakespeare so the conversation is directed.

Making your computer a semi fluent/literate recent immigrant child from the Ukraine is completely garbage in the context of a free form Turing test. If the test was not supposed to be free form, then sure make it limited in some interesting way. It might be a little cheap but not that bad. In this context, the AI is just garbage. The programmers might as well have said, "We couldn't work out how to make a good program so we thought of how we could possibly game the system with our shit programming skills and limited intellect. We are not smart enough to feel shame or a even decreased amount of pride in our 'victory.' "
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  #120  
Old 06-10-2014, 04:00 PM
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Default Re: Why the Mainstream Media Really Sucks

In other news, scientists are trying to program robots to be neurotic so their decision-making will be more human-like.


Newsflash: Woody Allen isn't exactly the norm for humans.
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  #121  
Old 06-10-2014, 04:04 PM
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Default Re: Why the Mainstream Media Really Sucks

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Originally Posted by Nullifidian View Post
In short, what we've learned about artificial intelligence here is that the way to beat the Turing Test is to gather around you a lot of really dumb reporters.
No, A 'Supercomputer' Did NOT Pass The Turing Test For The First Time And Everyone Should Know Better | Techdirt ...

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Kevin Warwick at Reading University ... somewhat infamous for his ridiculous claims to the press, which gullible reporters repeat without question. He's been doing it for decades.
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  #122  
Old 06-10-2014, 06:28 PM
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Default Re: Why the Mainstream Media Really Sucks

The main problems, IMO, are that people reporting (ha--I mean, repeating) have no idea of previous developments; and that the Turing test is kind of fundamentally flawed and imprecise anyway.

It wasn't actually designed to be a test, and it had to be modified and expanded on to even function as one. So there isn't just one Turing test. There are different implementations with different rules.

The Turing test, as used, has been 'passed' lots of times. So the media is sitting there trumpeting some kind of a big breakthrough, and giving them credit for something lots of people have done before just because they're audacious enough to claim it.

There are lots of different elements to a robust AI, and those limited Turing tests evaluate disproportionately on natural language processing abilities, which are fudged if you make the persona a non-native speaker. (And a 13 year old one, as 13 year old humans tend to be kind of naive and annoying in the same ways chatbots are.)

I mean, I got to where I could not even look at stories about Watson because of all the bizarrely naive things people were saying about it, giving it credit for a whole bunch of stuff that lots of other people had been doing for a really long time, and for stuff it obviously wasn't doing at all. It's like the media thinks that AI doesn't already exist, so any implementation, no matter how dull or commonplace, is a massive breakthrough.

The whole thing was bullshit end-to-end, and it's the same kind of bullshit that the media always eats up every time, and I was dumb dumb dumb to even entertain the notion that something actually happened this time.
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  #123  
Old 06-11-2014, 10:03 PM
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Default Re: Why the Mainstream Media Really Sucks

Quote:
Originally Posted by beyelzu View Post
I think the research team is especially culpable in this case. I have some interest in the Turing Test, it makes pretty good sense in some forms. Computers pass versions of the test all the time. I read an article about a person who takes part in some turing tests as a human. His job is to convince people that he is in fact human.

According to the article that I read, one of the programmers who won made a point to say that this was special because the test wasn't limited. The people could talk about anything. In some other tests, the tester may be told this is an expert in Shakespeare so the conversation is directed.

Making your computer a semi fluent/literate recent immigrant child from the Ukraine is completely garbage in the context of a free form Turing test. If the test was not supposed to be free form, then sure make it limited in some interesting way. It might be a little cheap but not that bad. In this context, the AI is just garbage. The programmers might as well have said, "We couldn't work out how to make a good program so we thought of how we could possibly game the system with our shit programming skills and limited intellect. We are not smart enough to feel shame or a even decreased amount of pride in our 'victory.' "
Seems a valid approach to me.

It's less useful for a lot of things, but if your goal is simply to convince people that your chatbot is human, then it's valid.

This is relevant to my research areas... Natural language fluency will soon be a poor way to ferret out a computer anyway. It got them out of it this time, but producing fluent English is not where the biggest problem is - it's enough of a problem that claiming to be a native English speaker will cause problems for your Turing test program, but they're closer to fixing that than the other things, IMO. Of course, making him a semi-fluent 13 y/o also meant that they shouldn't really allow him to respond with fluent English for anything but short or simple sentences. And someone with more background knowledge of Ukrainian would be able to ferret him out much more quickly I'm sure (not just on the knowledge of Ukraine, but also possibly on the kinds of English mistakes he makes).

Making him 13 was more important. It's background knowledge, following the thread of a conversation, understanding complicated sentences, etc. that will be more important. I guess they figured that making him 13 made it more acceptable for him to simply not acknowledge statements, change the topic randomly, etc. Apparently it worked some of the time.

Of course, convincing people that your chatbot is a 13 year old semi-fluent speaker of English one third of the time is a much less impressive feat, and it shouldn't be reported like they achieved more than that.

This is still an achievement, IMO. They did better than most previous groups.

But you know, there are a lot of suckers out there. People aren't going to want these human-like chatbots just for convincing people like the members of :ff:... they're going to want them for tricking idiots, old, technologically illiterate types, children, etc. Mostly for not very good aims.
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  #124  
Old 06-12-2014, 07:46 AM
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Default Re: Why the Mainstream Media Really Sucks

That is what I was thinking. In any case, this achievement will be built upon by more sophisticated programs capable of convincing larger numbers of people.
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Old 06-12-2014, 01:23 PM
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Default Re: Why the Mainstream Media Really Sucks

Quote:
Originally Posted by lisarea View Post
and that the Turing test is kind of fundamentally flawed and imprecise anyway.
Imprecise yes, but flawed? I think it's still true that if an artificial system could routinely get people questioning whether it was in fact a human, there'd be a good case for calling it intelligent.

We already have things working the other way round: it's often clear that a human typing a youtube comment or posting on a forum is in fact not intelligent. And some spam is clearly generated by bots.
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Thanks, from:
Angakuk (06-13-2014), Janet (06-12-2014), lisarea (06-12-2014), ShottleBop (06-12-2014), The Man (06-12-2014)
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