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  #101  
Old 01-28-2008, 07:07 PM
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Default Re: Star Trek is awesome

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Originally Posted by Ensign Steve View Post
The Bajorans do suck, but the Cardassians, Jem Hadar, Klingons, and Vorta all kick ass all over the place. Okay, maybe not the Vorta, but definitely Weyoon. :beloved:
And Iggy Pop!
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  #102  
Old 01-28-2008, 09:17 PM
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Default Re: Star Trek is awesome

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DS9 was my favorite Trek ever.
Well ... you're wrong. I'm glad we were able to settle that. :shaketribble:
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  #103  
Old 01-28-2008, 10:08 PM
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Default Re: Star Trek is awesome

You are! No amount of loofah-shaking will change that. :glare:
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  #104  
Old 01-28-2008, 10:13 PM
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Default Re: Star Trek is awesome

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You are! No amount of loofah-shaking will change that. :glare:
And it's 2 to 1 against the loofah-fiend now. :shakeshaker:
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  #105  
Old 01-28-2008, 10:25 PM
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Default Re: Star Trek is awesome

DS9 is teh best one evah!

Especially since Trek was all downhill after DS9 ended.

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  #106  
Old 01-28-2008, 10:48 PM
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Default Re: Star Trek is awesome

Please, let's not fight amongst ourselves. Let's just agree that Star Trek is awesome.

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  #107  
Old 01-28-2008, 11:16 PM
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Default Re: Star Trek is awesome

Indeed, it is. It's a shame that Trek ended with DS9. :sisfight:
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  #108  
Old 01-29-2008, 03:47 AM
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Default Re: Star Trek is awesome

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Ensign Ro Laren instead of Kira Nerys would have been another huge improvement, imho.
There's a book with the two of them. And Kira definitely became more likable.

Dukat was an awesome character, loved him.
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  #109  
Old 01-29-2008, 07:05 AM
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Default Re: Star Trek is awesome

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Indeed, it is. It's a shame that Trek ended with DS9. :sisfight:
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  #110  
Old 01-01-2009, 04:23 PM
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Default Re: Star Trek is awesome

It's taken almost a year, but I've just finished watching the very last episode of DS9 from my DVD set.

That was 48 DVDs, with 4 episodes each on the majority of them.

Now I have to start watching my complete TNG set.
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  #111  
Old 01-02-2009, 12:51 AM
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Default Re: Star Trek is awesome

I really enjoyed the original Star Trek. In many ways, it's still the best Trek, in my opinion. Sure, it was produced on a shoestring budget, the special effects were pathetic by today's standards, and the acting wasn't always very impressive, but it's so easy to forget just how very far ahead of its time it was.

The original Trek was a show that had something to say, and wasn't afraid to say it. At a time when taking a stand against U.S. interventionism was considered practically treasonous (the early days of the Viet-Nam War), Star Trek had many episodes which stated outright that the Federation (an obvious stand-in for the U.S.) had no business interfering in the affairs of other cultures.

In a time when you could still see "Coloreds Only" and "Whites Only" signs on water fountains and whatnot in much of the country, Star Trek featured an integrated crew and had several episodes flatly condemning prejudice and racial bigotry. No less a person than Martin Luther King, Jr. praised the show for daring to portray a future in which a person's race (and sex too, for the most part) were considered unimportant to how (s)he did his/her job. And this was at a time when portraying people of different sexes and races as equals who could and did work together harmoniously was not "politically correct."


Someone once said that the original Star Trek was written by people who had lived through the Great Depression and World War II. Star Trek recruited well-established authors such as Robert Bloch to write episodes. By contrast, all of the later Trek series were written by people who had grown up watching television. And it shows. Whereas the original Trek was a gutsy, ground-breaking show that took many a risk and wasn't at all afraid to take potentially-controversial stands, the most characteristic trait of all the succeeding series was their almost complete unwillingness to take any sort of risk or to say anything that might be considered remotely controversial by their viewers. Where the original Trek was, by necessity, written for a broad audience, all succeeding Trek series were rather obviously written to appeal to a narrower demographic -- namely, Star Trek fans.


To my mind, Star Trek reached its acme with Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan. While Star Trek VI was also quite good, nothing before or since has equaled the mangificence of STII, in my opinion.


One thing about the original Trek that continues to amaze me, though, is how badly-mistaken -- almost willfully so, it seems to me -- most people are about Kirk and how he was portrayed. Now, Captain Kirk was never my favorite character, but I'm still surprised at how completely mistaken most interpretations of the character have been.

Kirk is typically seen as a serial womanizer, for instance, yet nothing in the original Trek or in the movies suggests this to be the case. In fact, if anything, just the opposite seems to be the case. I think that Kirk's reputation as a womanizer comes from the fact that he was clearly confident in his own sexuality and that he clearly liked women -- and perhaps most importantly, he was perfectly willing to use his charms to get what he wanted. Yet if you pay attention to the episodes, far from being willing to jump into the sack at any opportunity, Kirk is practically celibate. Indeed, in the episode "Wink of an Eye," the very attractive Deela literally had to threaten to kill him before Kirk would agree to sleep with her.


Nor was Kirk some sort of rogue officer who disregarded orders whenever it suited him. If that had been the case, he'd never have risen so far and so fast, nor would he have been given so many critical assignments. More to the point, nothing in the television series or movies ever suggested that Kirk was regarded by his superiors as anything other than a highly respected and trustworthy officer. There were several episodes in which it was made quite clear that Kirk disagreed with Starfleet orders from time to time, but even when he did so under official protest, he virtually always follwed his orders to the letter.

I can think of only two cases in which Kirk outright defied his orders. Both times, interestingly, were to save Spock's life. (The television episode "Amok Time" and the movie Star Trek III.)

I'm guessing that the mistaken notion that Kirk was regarded as some sort of "rogue officer" who frequently took Starfleet law into his own hands came from the fact that three of the movies (STIII and STIV, and to some degree, STV) dealt with one of the very few times in which he did defy orders, and the consequences of that defiance.

Oddly, that "Kirk as rogue officer" meme seems to have become incorporated into official Star Trek canon, despite its utter lack of support. It was suggested in at least one episode of The Next Generation, plus episodes of Deep Space Nine and Voyager that this is how Kirk was remembered. (Sisko seemed to revere Kirk, whereas Captain Janeway seemed to think rather poorly of him, from what I can recall.)



Another thing that has bugged me about every Trek since the original is how Vulcans are portrayed. Vulcans were always my favorite Trek race, but whereas the original series managed to depict Vulcans as being diverse in temperament and beliefs without destroying their basic devotion to "logic" (don't get me started on how badly all of the Trek series mangle the concept of logic), that has not been the case in any of the succeeding series -- at all.

Almost without exception, Vulcans seen in The Next Generation, Deep Space Nine, Voyager, or, so far as I can tell, Enterprise, were arrogant and hypocritical idiots.


For that matter, the treatment of Klingons wasn't much better. In the original Star Trek, the Klingons had a wide range of personalities, and were clearly depicted as having a very diverse culture. In all succeeding versions of Trek, the Klingons are depicted as testosterone-addled, battle-hungry idiots. Oh, sure, they might be interesting testosterone-addled, battle-hungry idiots from time to time, but it doesn't change the fact that they're testosterone-addled, battle-hungry idiots with absolutely no cultural diversity or individual personalities.

It was in an episode of Deep Space Nine that Dax finally pointed out the most glaringly-obvious truth about how the Klingons are depicted in all of the Next-Gen-era series: they prattle on and on and on about "honor" and yet don't display even the slightest understanding of what the word actually means. The only one who does is Worf, and he was raised by humans.


***

Don't get me wrong, I liked The Next Generation, but I don't think it has aged anywhere near as well as has the original. The first two seasons were embarrassingly bad, but it got really excellent during the third season. For awhile, it had superb stories, anchored by Patrick Stewart's terrific acting. But it eventually became so bogged down in sentimentality and an absolute unwillingness to ever tackle any subject that might possibly offend any viewers that it became rather boring.


I could never get into Deep Space Nine. I lost interest quickly, then started watching it again during the Dominion War for awhile (when it was blatantly copying Babylon 5's storyline). Deep Space Nine improved during its later seasons, as best I could tell, but it never held my interest the way that the original had, or even The Next Generation.


I could never get into Voyager at all. I watched several episodes of the first season, was seriously annoyed at how idiotic were the plots, and gave up on it. I've only seen a couple of episodes of Enterprise: hated the stupid, arrogant and hypocritical Vulcans and the even stupider humans.


Cheers,

Michael
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  #112  
Old 01-02-2009, 02:42 AM
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Default Re: Star Trek is awesome

I've been watching a bunch of original Trek episodes lately. I've known quite a bit about them for quite some time, my dad being a serious trekkie, but I've never actually sat down and watched them. I'm very much enjoying it, despite the poor special effects (I actually find that a bit quaintly charming in these days of stunning CGI) and the annoying tendency for them to wind up on worlds ridiculoulsy similar to Earth, complete with Romans, Nazis, American flags, and verbatim copies of the US Constitution.
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  #113  
Old 01-02-2009, 03:29 AM
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Default Re: Star Trek is awesome

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Originally Posted by The Lone Ranger View Post
I really enjoyed the original Star Trek. In many ways, it's still the best Trek, in my opinion. Sure, it was produced on a shoestring budget, the special effects were pathetic by today's standards, and the acting wasn't always very impressive, but it's so easy to forget just how very far ahead of its time it was.

["Snip!"--Ed.]

I could never get into Voyager at all. I watched several episodes of the first season, was seriously annoyed at how idiotic were the plots, and gave up on it. I've only seen a couple of episodes of Enterprise: hated the stupid, arrogant and hypocritical Vulcans and the even stupider humans.
And was thus the Great Internet Master Debate on Star Trek concluded.

I recall, as a Wee Spud, a feminist article condemning Star Trek the Original and Only for being a "WASP" infested masculine power trip, et cetera, recapitulating the various myths as expressed by TLR. Here I will disagree with him on the myth of Kirk being a "rogue"--this article came out long before The Lost Generation or Deep 69. It was in response to The Motionless Picture.

I wondered if the authoress knew the principle characters were . . . well . . . Jews. See! The JEW RUN STAR FLEET [Stop that!--Ed.]!!11! Right . . . sorry.

I think the "rogue" and "womanizer" came from two different perspectives. In the Original, you are dealing with a period where leading characters were essentially monogamous--even when dating--or, at worse, had "One Rival" to affections. Married couples slept in separate beds. A few years before, the parent company had to wonder if Lucy should be portrayed as . . . well . . . pregnant. The idea of the Leading Man [Tm.--Ed.] sharing one or two beds was different. However, I would agree with TLR that such mythology grows over time--even ST VI joked about it--along with Shatner's ego:

Quote:
Kirk-1: I can't believe I kissed you!

Kirk-2: I thought it was your life-long ambition.
Some myths grew in the books and stories--such as by the hack Vonda Mcintire . . . Macin . . . iMacyntir . . . "I Lust After Sulu"-tire--such as "Vulcans cannot lie." Spock lied frequently in The One and Only but they joke about it in The Wrath of Khan--total agreement on TLR on that. People misunderstand the overacting of "KHAAAAAAN!" It is Kirk over-acting to fool a Supreme Narcissist Khan.

The "Rogue," I think was an older motif that got transported. Leading Men always break the rules. While it is now a later and tired motif of the "Damnit Brannigan!" superior who opposes and impedes "the Rogue Cop"--you had such in the old war films. Usually the Charming Leading Man is simply vindicated. However, as TLR suggests, the "infractions" are never severe. The audience is suppose to laugh at the cleverness The Leading Man bends around the rules.

Though myths grow. A frequent criticism is that all the crew seems to do is "interfere." True to some stand point, but a few episodes deal with how interference and attempts to correct interference only makes the matter worse.

In a way, many of the the writers--as he suggests--are products of the military in some way--serving in WWII and/or Korea. Being able to break rules and get away with it is like the appeal of a Looney Tune--you can drop an anvil on an enemy!

A lot of the Original and Best Trek was changed out of necessity--to keep books going, satisfy fans, et cetera. I agree with TLR that that was a primary problem with The Lost Generation and so forth--the inmates ran the asylum. Fans certainly keep a franchise alive--and ST is the best representative of that--but you do not let them "write the music."

It was the intention of Roddenberry to explore more of the characters had the Greatest By Far carried on. There are episodes where that is done to some extent. Far from just Kirk "dancing the light fantastic" with every Alien Babe [Tm.--Ed.], you had McCoy, Spoke, and even Scotty trying to make it.

But all good things must come to an end, to paraphrase Britain's greatest Prime Minister.

--J.D.
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  #114  
Old 01-02-2009, 03:38 AM
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Default Re: Star Trek is awesome

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I've been watching a bunch of original Trek episodes lately.
I knew the Greatest and Best Trek as reruns that scared the crap out of me as a Weer Wee Spud. I think Me Dad had an arrangement with the local UHF station to run the "horta" episode more frequently than expected. I recall the station announcing to "please stop sending letters" because they were bringing Star Trek back!

Anyways, we went to see The Motionless Picture and left with the same feeling of dissatisfaction pretty much everyone other than John Tesch fans feel when they see it. That night we fired up the television and there appeared I, Mudd. In the opening, McCoy grumbles about a crewman who is "odd"--who has no outside interests, is only interested in his work, is emotionless, et cetera only to be met by a stern :glare: by Spock.

"It's different for us humans, Spock. The ears make all the difference!"

When he continues on how the crewman has avoided his physical, Spock snaps back that he can understand his reticence to place himself in the hands of a witch-doctor.

"That's what's missing," Me Dad proclaimed: the banter, the interaction.

That is why people actually watched.

Well that and the joy of watching your kid crap his pants every time a crawling rock fried a Red Shirt. . . .

--J.D.
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  #115  
Old 01-02-2009, 04:15 AM
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Default Re: Star Trek is awesome

Wrath of Khan and Undiscovered Country were the only Trek movies I'd seen (up to Generations) for a long time. My dad didn't seem inclined to find any of the others to add to his Trek collection and for a long time I wondered why. Then I found them all in a boxed set on VHS, and I wonder no longer. Those two are really good, though.

I enjoy some of the novels. I, Q and Q Squared were very good, especially the former. I really don't watch much of the other shows, though. I used to watch TNG back in the day, but just can't get interested in it much anymore. Voyager and DS9 could never hold me beyond a few episodes, and Enterprise never so much as tickled my interest. It seems these days the most enjoyment I get out of Star Trek are all the parodies and homages in other shows. Huge props to the Futurama episode Where No Fan Has Gone Before, that was awesome.

"Like a balloon, and... something bad happens!"
:rofl:
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  #116  
Old 01-02-2009, 05:45 AM
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Default Re: Star Trek is awesome

Q Squared was amazing.

The best Trek books I've read is the Millenium trilogy from the Reeves-Stevenses.
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  #117  
Old 01-02-2009, 04:52 PM
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Default Re: Star Trek is awesome

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I'm very much enjoying it, despite the poor special effects (I actually find that a bit quaintly charming in these days of stunning CGI) and the annoying tendency for them to wind up on worlds ridiculoulsy similar to Earth, complete with Romans, Nazis, American flags, and verbatim copies of the US Constitution.
Those two things tie together. The reason for the Roman planet, Nazi Planet, Gangster planet, Western illusionary planet etc... was budget. They didn't have to actually design sets and costumes for them. It's the same reason that so many alien worlds were shot at the Vasquez Rocks Park, because it was cheap.

There really isn't an excuse for Omega Glory (with the flag and Constitution) though. That was just a desire to tell a certain story that got out of hand. I suppose they could have included some exposition that the humans were originally colonists or abductees from Earth.
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  #118  
Old 01-02-2009, 05:16 PM
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Default Re: Star Trek is awesome

When DS9 was originally being aired, I wasn't very interested and I didn't bother to watch many episodes. Having seen TOS and TNG, the idea of the series being set on a space station seemed wrong to me - "there's no treking involved if everyone stays put in the same place."

But having the whole of DS9 on DVD and being able to watch several episodes back-to-back soon changed my mind - now I think it was better than TNG.

I admire TOS for its inventiveness - pretty much the whole of the Trek franchise was there right away: warp drive, phasors, 'beaming down', tricorders, etc., etc. Everything after has just been embroidery on an existing theme.

I think the acting in DS9 was generally better than either TOS or TNG. (Exception: the captains - Patrick Stewart is a far better actor than Avery Brooks, imo. Avery's breathy over-acting I found rather annoying.) DS9 made much greater use of long-running plot themes than TOS or TNG. There were many multi-episode 'arches', so that a viewer watching only occasional episodes, or watching them out of sequence, would not fully understand what was going on.

Anyway, I shall soon begin watching TNG again - I doubt if there are many episodes that I've not already seen at least once. After I've watched a few of them again, I'll let you know if I still think DS9 is better.
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  #119  
Old 01-02-2009, 08:50 PM
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Default Re: Star Trek is awesome

Ok, for all the Star Trek haters, I'll post a picture of me wearing my Star Trek t-shirt. Well, it's pretty much just my t-shirt ...

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  #120  
Old 01-02-2009, 08:55 PM
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Default Re: Star Trek is awesome

Also, if I had to rate the series:

1) The Original Series
2) The Next generation (though the first two seasons were really bad)
3) Voyager (I hate Janeway and Chakotay but I love Voyager!)
4) Enterprise
5) DS9
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  #121  
Old 01-02-2009, 09:15 PM
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Default Re: Star Trek is awesome

Love the avatar, Stormlight!! :cat:

Wow, DS9 is one of my favorite series! But it's definitely less Federation Uber Alles. Heavy on the spiritual and personal journeys and arching storylines, too.

I have a question for the folks who are providing ratings:

Did you watch most of each of the series? I found that it took a while on some of the later series for it (the crew and the ship) to find its voice.
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  #122  
Old 01-02-2009, 09:56 PM
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I watched everything at least twice. And DS9 is just too much spiritual mumbojumbo. Damn, that was annoying. And the Bajorans suck. And also, Avery Brooks is a bad, bad actor.
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  #123  
Old 01-02-2009, 11:03 PM
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Yeah, can't argue with that last part! I think the spiritual mumbo-jumbo was part of what I enjoyed watching play out in DS9.

Btw, I meant to add to my last post that I don't personally think it's necessary to watch all the episodes to formulate an opinion, of course! Just that, for me, it did take getting into the second or third season before each of the later series really came together for me.
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  #124  
Old 01-03-2009, 09:58 PM
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Default Re: Star Trek is awesome

I got The Original Series, Season 3 (remastered) for Christmas. My collection is officially complete. Every season of every series, including the cartoons, plus every movie. Phew! I need to get renters insurance, stat!

So I popped in Season 3, Disk 1, guess what the first ep was.

BRAIN AND BRAIN! WHAT IS BRAIN?!

:yes!:
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  #125  
Old 02-16-2009, 11:28 AM
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Just fell over some Carol Burnett Trek pr0n, and thought of you guys

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