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  #1201  
Old 07-01-2024, 07:22 PM
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Default Re: SCOTAL Itch

Hoooo weee!

That is way more bugfuck than I expected. First of all, we previously set the over/under on the number of opinions at 5.5. Ups to whoever went with the under, as the opinion count was five (majority, two concurrences, and two dissents).

Quote:
[A] former President [is entitled] to absolute immunity from criminal prosecution for actions within his conclusive and preclusive constitutional authority. And he is entitled to at least presumptive immunity from prosecution for all his official acts. There is no immunity for unofficial acts.
So what about this official/unofficial acts distinction and its effects on the specific charges in the J6 indictment? "Fuck you, we ain't sayin'." That's for the lower courts to decide.

But arguably my "favorite" part of this clown show is the brand new rules of evidence governing the lower courts' proceedings on remand:

- "Testimony or private records of the President or his advisers probing such conduct may not be admitted as evidence at trial."

- “In dividing official from unofficial conduct, courts may not inquire into the President’s motives.”

- And when (if) trial actually rolls around, the government can't us official conduct evidence "to help secure his conviction, even on charges that purport to be based only on his unofficial conduct."

Well, they didn't send everything back for further consideration. The count involving PAB using Justice Department authority to convince states to replace legit presidential electors with fake electors? Absolutely immune! :cheesywink:

References to the Framers' intent to establish a "vigorous" and "energetic" POTUS abound. As Sotomayor's dissent establishes, the majority actually enshrined in constitutional law those clown-ass hypotheticals about the president being immune from criminal prosecution for assassinating a political rival or taking a bribe in exchange for a pardon.

Holy fuck.
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  #1202  
Old 07-01-2024, 09:30 PM
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Default Re: SCOTAL Itch

From what I'm reading, this isn't finished yet.
But, nothing from this is going to prevent his pursuit of office prior to the election. So, it comes down to the election results in November.

If he gets back into the office, it will be all over for the Republic.

I think it is really that simple. If Joe is still breathing, I'm voting for him.
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  #1203  
Old 07-01-2024, 09:43 PM
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Default Re: SCOTAL Itch

In his 1858 debates with Stephen A. Douglas, Abe Lincoln charged that there was a conspiracy involving Douglas, President Buchanan, the Democratic Party and the Supreme Court to spread slavery nationwide. Lincoln cited the Dred Scott decision of 1857, which infamously held that blacks had no rights at all, struck down the Missouri Compromise, and ruled that territories could not bar slavery. Lincoln charged that the putative conspirators were laying the groundwork for a second Dred Scott decision that would bar states from prohibiting slavery. Lincoln cited Douglas’s role in writing the Kansas-Nebraska act, which had a clause disavowing any intent to legislate slavery into any territory or state, or to exclude it therefrom. That curious “or to exclude it” got Lincoln’s antennae quivering, quite correctly I suspect. There was probably in fact such a conspiracy, and it was only aborted by the blood Civil war and by Lincoln himself.

The Dred Scott decision is widely considered the worst in American history, and today’s decision will rank up there, if there are any future historians to discuss these matters. I think there is a conspiracy among the MAGAts, the Supreme Court, and of course Donald Trump himself to install Trump as a dictator and end what is left of democracy in this country. These are deeply perilous times, with no Lincoln on the horizon. It really could be that another Civil War is in the offing.

Eight years ago, after Trump’s victory, I advocated blue state secession. If Trump wins, that’s the last viable option to preserve some semblance of democracy.
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  #1204  
Old 07-01-2024, 10:16 PM
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Default Re: SCOTAL Itch

I'm not sure what this all means for his future trials but I look forward to reading how the dems either can't or refuse to use this to prevent a Trump takeover in the event he wins or 'wins' another election with the majority voting against him.

The problem with succession is the evil rich can still visit, it's only the poor that will be land locked. For all his constant bitching Musk does a lot of his tweeting from California. Many rich republicans either hang out near liberals, do business with liberals or have sprawling compounds that keep the poor at bay.
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  #1205  
Old 07-01-2024, 10:25 PM
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Default Re: SCOTAL Itch

Y'know, dredscottful though it is, I've a positive vibe about this. Remember Dobbs v Jackson was meant to roll back 50 years of woke progress in a ringing victory for the right, crowning decades of quiet Movement Conservative work? And it does do all of that. And yet it is also aptly compared to a dog finally catching the car it's been chasing, because that game is only fun for the dog if it doesn't succeed.

Overturning Roe has lost the GOP so many millions of mostly (not entirely) womens' votes that they are now probably unelectable up and down the ballot.

There's about 20% of voters who really don't like Biden or Trump. I suspect that very nearly all of them are going to hold their noses and vote Democrat because the conjunction of this Führer-enabling Supreme Court and the Führer-in-Waiting Trump can only go one way.
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  #1206  
Old 07-01-2024, 11:08 PM
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Default Re: SCOTAL Itch

I think you underestimate just how many people in this country are stupid beyond belief. But I hope you're right.
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  #1207  
Old 07-01-2024, 11:27 PM
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Default Re: SCOTAL Itch

Never expected to see something like this in a SCOTUS opinion:

Quote:
To fully appreciate the oddity of making the criminal immunity determination turn on the character of the President’s responsibilities, consider what the majority says is one of the President’s “conclusive and preclusive” prerogatives: “ ‘[t]he President’s power to remove . . . those who wield executive power on his behalf.’ ” While the President may have the authority to decide to remove the Attorney General, for example, the question here is whether the President has the option to remove the Attorney General by, say, poisoning him to death. Put another way, the issue here is not whether the President has exclusive removal power, but whether a generally applicable criminal law prohibiting murder can restrict how the President exercises that authority.
Jackson, J., dissenting (citations omitted).
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  #1208  
Old 07-02-2024, 01:03 AM
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Default Re: SCOTAL Itch

Quote:
Originally Posted by LarsMac View Post
But, nothing from this is going to prevent his pursuit of office prior to the election.
I mean Biden could do one extremely funny thing. Or one extremely funny thing plus six more.
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  #1209  
Old 07-02-2024, 02:32 AM
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Default Re: SCOTAL Itch

So much for "limited government" conservatives.

Does presidential immunity extend down the chain of command? Would Biden have to operate assassination drones himself or can he get the "just following orders" guys to do it?
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  #1210  
Old 07-02-2024, 02:33 AM
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Default Re: SCOTAL Itch

I do wonder what exactly is an 'official act,' could an official act be the immediate jailing of a man who hoarded classified documents, along with the removal of the judge presiding over the case through any means necessary, or are 'officials acts' individually decided by the supreme court so that they can pick and choose what's best for them and their camping plans.
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  #1211  
Old 07-02-2024, 03:15 AM
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Default Re: SCOTAL Itch

Quote:
Originally Posted by fragment View Post
So much for "limited government" conservatives.

Does presidential immunity extend down the chain of command? Would Biden have to operate assassination drones himself or can he get the "just following orders" guys to do it?
It doesn't extent down the chain of command, but a presidential pardon is always an official act.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ari View Post
I do wonder what exactly is an 'official act,' could an official act be the immediate jailing of a man who hoarded classified documents, along with the removal of the judge presiding over the case through any means necessary, or are 'officials acts' individually decided by the supreme court so that they can pick and choose what's best for them and their camping plans.
Sounds like it's a fact intensive inquiry. Could take years to sort out, after the act itself.
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  #1212  
Old 07-02-2024, 04:56 PM
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Default Re: SCOTAL Itch

Quote:
Originally Posted by LarsMac View Post
I think it is really that simple. If Joe is still breathing, I'm voting for him.
I will absolutely be voting for Weekend at Biden's for this.
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  #1213  
Old 07-02-2024, 05:13 PM
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Default Re: SCOTAL Itch

Quote:
Originally Posted by BrotherMan View Post
Weekend at Biden's
:lol:
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  #1214  
Old 07-02-2024, 05:19 PM
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Default Re: SCOTAL Itch

To let you know how bad this decision is, Trump's lawyers immediately filed to vacate the current conviction because some evidence in the trial consisted of conversations while Trump was President.
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  #1215  
Old 07-02-2024, 05:26 PM
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Default Re: SCOTAL Itch

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ari View Post
could an official act be the immediate jailing of a man who hoarded classified documents
Or maybe paper hoarding itself is an official act! As Chuck noted, it will take multiple evidentiary hearings - and surely multiple appeals - to work all that shit out! The Supreme Court is (or at least thinks it is) the final arbiter of official v. nonofficial. They couldn't create an imperial presidency on steroids without reserving a bit of imperial power for itself.

And for anyone who hasn't done so, take a quick skim of Clarence "Who put this public hair on my Coke?" Thomas's concurrence. PAB's lolyers in the classified documents case cobbled together a breathtakingly frivolous motion to dismiss based on the illegitimacy of the special counsel appointment process. Ol' Clarence spent almost his entire concurrence in this case - you guessed it - dumping on the legitimacy of the special counsel process.
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