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I still don't understand the point you're trying to make. Subjective experiences are an emergent phenomenon that occur in sufficiently complex mechanisms that are able to sense their environment. They're not a yes/no thing. ...
That may be a good idea. But it isn't yet a hypothesis, let alone a theory! And you present it as if it were factual.
I am saying that science has no grasp yet on what may or may not be sufficient to give rise to subjective experience. Yet science-minded people are apt to proceed as if we know what the f we are talking about. I submit ceptimus as case in point.
Pretty sure it's not normal to masturbate over this subject. Do you express a defense mechanism?
Do you not know humans or what!?
One of the few things that separates us from other animals is our ability to masturbate over something, anytime, anywhere.
I find this thread difficult to masturbate to, but it is far from being the least suitable fap fodder in the history of this message board.
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Cēterum cēnseō factiōnem Rēpūblicānam dēlendam esse īgnī ferrōque.
“All for ourselves, and nothing for other people, seems, in every age of the world, to have been the vile maxim of the masters of mankind.” -Adam Smith
I find this thread difficult to masturbate to, but it is far from being the least suitable fap fodder in the history of this message board.
It's kinda like Frank Zappa's The Black Page in that regard; you can dance to it, but it really hurts (subjectively, of course).
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"We can have democracy in this country, or we can have great wealth concentrated in the hands of a few, but we can't have both." ~ Louis D. Brandeis
"Psychos do not explode when sunlight hits them, I don't give a fuck how crazy they are." ~ S. Gecko
Funny you should mention that. Extensive research regarding subjective experience is currently under way in the Sovereign Autocracy of Rape Island (formerly the Pitcairn Islands) using bimbo tween slaves as test subjects. All we need do is sit back and wait for the written peer-reviewed study.
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"We can have democracy in this country, or we can have great wealth concentrated in the hands of a few, but we can't have both." ~ Louis D. Brandeis
"Psychos do not explode when sunlight hits them, I don't give a fuck how crazy they are." ~ S. Gecko
No. I said if it was such a big deal to "prove" that it exists then it's easier to say that perhaps it doesn't....
Does easiness of saying stuff determine reality? YOU feel stuff, so subjective experience exists. Why are arguing that maybe it is easier to say that perhaps you don't feel stuff?
No. I said if it was such a big deal to "prove" that it exists then it's easier to say that perhaps it doesn't....
Does easiness of saying stuff determine reality? YOU feel stuff, so subjective experience exists. Why are you arguing that maybe it is easier to say that perhaps you don't feel stuff? Are you an ostrich?
Lately Flo has been fapping to the (subjective) fantasy of being entangled in a threesome, entwined with the gorilla-like arms of Harvey Weinstein and Bill O'Reilly, while socking down buckets of whiskey. Are such fantasies normal for old ladies like me, boys? Or should Flo seek help?
If you can't tell whether or not something/somebody has subjective experiences, then it's not an important thing to know.
How do you even know that YOU have subjective experiences? If you can't prove it to someone else then maybe you're just fooling yourself. Maybe subjective experiences don't really exist.
I get that we may not interpret our experiences correctly. But I can easily prove that you and me have all sorts of subjective experiences. I have some pliers and bone saws here. Ready for the proof?
How can you tell whether something has subjective experiences, or not.
Bugs? Stars? [hidden]I was still inside the box there[/hidden]
Does it respond to external stimuli? Then it may have subjective experiences. Are those experiences similar to those that we would identify as pleasurable or painful? For vertebrates, I think, the answer is yes, and I think that is a consensus among scientists who study the matter. And there is some indication that the responses of at least some invertebrates to stimuli that would cause pain to many vertebrates are more than simple reflexes:
[Transcript of an interesting episode of "Invisibilia" podcast here: Emotions, Part 1: How we interpret an experience can depend on culture--". . . without concepts you will feel pleasant or unpleasant. You can feel pleasure. You can feel high arousal, being worked up. You can feel low activation, but you don't really feel anger, sadness, fear, disgust or any of the other emotions that we think of as being given to us by nature." The messages our bodies give our brains are "simple feelings of pleasantness, unpleasantness, arousal, calmness."]
Still not quite clear on WHO the emperor is that you say has no clothes, and why. "The elephant is in the room. The emperor has no clothes." Did the elephant enter the room because he/she was passing by the emperor's room and saw that the emperor had no clothes? Did the elephant find that arousing, and enter the room to have sexual congress with the emperor? Did the emperor open the door of the room to find the elephant there, become aroused by the sight of the elephant, and strip off his clothes to have sexual congress with the elephant? Do you question the ability of scientists to answer questions such as these?
. . . or do you just like to masturbate to fantasies about naked emperors frolicking--indoors--with elephants? Does that make you happy? Would a scientist observing you be able to tell?
Yeah, like what is your actual point?
Is english your second language or are you being purposefully obtuse and aloof because you think it makes you seem smarter?