a Christian says, "come & see what I believe"...

freemonkey · #1 04-04-2008, 04:15 PM

I have this friend, I've written about her before, she's been after me for years, trying every tactic in her arsenal to convert me to her faith. She is not even above creative storytelling to try and convince me to come see what its about. :yup:

I know for a fact that I've told her I'm a non-believer. I have turned down numerous invitations to church & bible study, and said other things that I am certain leave no doubt as to my lack of belief.

Yesterday I get an invite from her to some series of "lectures", she saying, "I know you'd like this 'cause you're a thinker and its very thought provoking". She says is not "churchy" because its held in a school and you can wear sweats or jeans and they serve Starbucks. But the flier reads:

Quote:

JESUS THEOLOGY: What followers of Jesus believe.

THE SCRIPTURES: the scriptures point to Jesus
GOD: Jesus shows us what God is like
CREATIONS: We were created to become just like Jesus
SIN: We rebelled and are wired to sin
THE GOSPEL: Jesus died for our sin and rose to give us life
THE MISSIONAL CHURCH: Jesus sends us on his mission
HEAVEN AND HELL: We were made to live forever

This just takes the cake. I have written back and asked her why she insists on trying to convert me. She claims she has no idea what my beliefs are and just thought I'd enjoy it. I call bullshit. But I reiterated my stance for her.... "I do not believe in any gods. In other words, I am an atheist, a non-believer, a heathen, an infidel! You could call me a secular humanist. You could say I have a naturalistic worldview. I am a skeptic about all things supernatural."

She wrote back and said I was not a heathen, but I was rebellious (code word for I'm angry with God?), and that I could come and see what she believes. As if I don't already have a pretty good idea about what she believes... some of my clues are the last few years of her telling me, plus the seminar titles.

As you might guess, I'm a bit miffed by now :glare:

and started to write back, but that's the good thing about the internets, you can edit it after it comes out of your head. As opposed to spouting off in person.

I figured maybe I should ask some advice about where to go from here. So if you're still with me, Christians and non, what does it look like to you? Is it the same old same old, even though she'll tell me its not? She has told me before that her church is not really "church". But really, how much different can they be, especially given the subject matter of the seminar? It sounds pretty fundamental to me.

LadyShea · #2 04-04-2008, 04:24 PM

Her church is not really church? What denomination is it? You could go with her, to open up a dialog. Or offer to have your own Bible study or planned discussion of her beliefs. They need not take place at a seminar or church service. Depends on how far you want to take it.

When my closest friend of over 20 years got saved, and wouldn't shut up about it, I offered to read the New Testament with her and we would discuss each book as we finished. We stopped with Matthew because she couldn't respond to my criticisms, or answer my questions, and she stopped trying to convert me after that. Basically we have agreed to disagree and respect each others beliefs/non-beliefs, at least as it relates to trying to convince the other person. We simply don't talk about it anymore except as "I" statements (one exception of a drunken night in New Orleans). I even stood up with her recently in her very religious wedding ceremony.

freemonkey · #3 04-04-2008, 04:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LadyShea

Her church is not really church? What denomination is it?

Its this one.

Quote:

When my closest friend of over 20 years got saved, and wouldn't shut up about it, I offered to read the New Testament with her and we would discuss each book as we finished.

This sounds like a great idea. In the email I wrote (but did not send yet) I said she could tell me what she believes, but that taking me to an 8 week seminar in public would be a dangerous mistake. I really like your suggestion, though.

Miss Shelby · #4 04-04-2008, 04:54 PM

Tell her you have open contagious non healing sores all over. She'll stop inviting you.

Demon · #5 04-04-2008, 05:02 PM

Beat her at her own game, invite her to some lectures about secularism

freemonkey · #6 04-04-2008, 05:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Demon

Beat her at her own game, invite her to some lectures about secularism

Ha!! I can't even find a Meet-Up around here!

Adam · #7 04-04-2008, 05:21 PM

I used to have an extremely religious friend of a friend who'd periodically try to get me to read apologetics books (Lee Strobel, CS Lewis, etc.). I had a standing agreement that I'd read and discuss whatever he wanted, but he had to match me book for book with secular stuff. He never took me up on it.

I'd say try the contagious sores thing, but I'm not sure if her particular sect buys into faith healing...she might take it as a challenge.

Smilin · #8 04-04-2008, 05:34 PM

Simple, toss her a rattlesnake or invite her to drink some arsenic. The bible clearly states that one should be able to handle vipers or drink any poisonous thing without harm.

freemonkey · #9 04-04-2008, 05:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adam

I used to have an extremely religious friend of a friend who'd periodically try to get me to read apologetics books (Lee Strobel, CS Lewis, etc.). I had a standing agreement that I'd read and discuss whatever he wanted, but he had to match me book for book with secular stuff. He never took me up on it.

I had a friend who did the same. She sent me a Strobel book & one of those re-worded "modern" bibles, I read the Strobel book(OMFG it hurt). Then I sent it back (not the bible, it was heavy), with a critique. I never did hear what she thought about that, but she also never sent any other books.

freemonkey · #10 04-04-2008, 05:38 PM

OK, so, back to my real question... is one Christian church really essentially all that different from another when it comes down to what they actually believe?

LadyShea · #11 04-04-2008, 05:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by freemonkey

OK, so, back to my real question... is one Christian church really essentially all that different from another when it comes down to what they actually believe?

Nope.

yguy · #12 04-04-2008, 05:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by freemonkey

So if you're still with me, Christians and non, what does it look like to you?

There is nothing Christian about forced or manipulated conversion.

I can't help but wonder why you put up with it.

Miss Shelby · #13 04-04-2008, 05:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by freemonkey

OK, so, back to my real question... is one Christian church really essentially all that different from another when it comes down to what they actually believe?

yes and no.

Brimshack · #14 04-04-2008, 05:49 PM

Option One (if you really don't mind talking to her about it): "You mentioned earlier that I could learn what you believe through this. But what you have shown me is an list of stock claims by someone else. I am unimpressed with the ad you've shown me and find it highly unlikely that I would learn anything of substance at this event, either about you or Christianity in general. If you really would like to share your thoughts with me, then perhaps we could sit down and talk about it over lunch. Please understand that I will expect you to listen just as much as I do. If you can do this, then I will be happy to discuss it. Short of this, I will ask you to drop the matter entirely."

Option Two (If you really just want to shut it down): I find your approach to me and to this subject rude and I would very much appreciate it if you would stop. I'm sorry if that seems like a slam, because I value your friendship and I would hate to lose it, but I also expect my friends to treat me with respect as I do them. I have not tried to talk you out of your beliefs and I will not accept your efforts to talk me out of mine, or to tell me what I think and why. I am not ignorant of this subject. Indeed, I have thought a great deal about it, and I do not appreciate being treated as a child, much less a mark for a sales pitch. I respectfully ask you to drop the subject entirely.

That's what occurs to me anyway.

Garnet · #15 04-04-2008, 05:49 PM

Tell her that you have the same interest in converting to Christianity that she does in becoming an atheist.

freemonkey · #16 04-04-2008, 05:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yguy

Quote:

Originally Posted by freemonkey

So if you're still with me, Christians and non, what does it look like to you?

There is nothing Christian about forced or manipulated conversion.

I can't help but wonder why you put up with it.

Well, you make a good point and you ask a good question.

First, we (especially her) are both busy, and we never actually finish many conversations.

Second, there are other things I love about her and so I tolerate the things I don't like.

Third, I'm not the greatest communicator and I am wary of offending her the way I feel offended by her.

LadyShea · #17 04-04-2008, 05:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by freemonkey

Quote:

Originally Posted by LadyShea

Her church is not really church? What denomination is it?

Its this one.

Welp, there's the issue right on their front page. She is required to proselytize

Quote:

GOD HAS CALLED NEWLIFE TO THE 170,000 IN OUR COMMUNITY WHO ARE NOT YET A PART OF ANY CHURCH. This vision requires every newlife follower of Jesus to think of themselves as missionaries to their families, friends, neighborhoods, schools, and workplaces.

Goliath · #18 04-04-2008, 06:00 PM

* Goliath chuckles.

Why is it that so many xians are seemingly incapable of realizing that someone can hear the hate speech that is the Jesus story and yet not become a xian?

freemonkey · #19 04-04-2008, 06:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LadyShea

Welp, there's the issue right on their front page. She is required to proselytize

I know it. Like I said, she already knew my stance, I'm guessing I would bring a good prize?

Miss Shelby · #20 04-04-2008, 06:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by freemonkey

Quote:

Originally Posted by LadyShea

Welp, there's the issue right on their front page. She is required to proselytize

I know it. Like I said, she already knew my stance, I'm guessing I would bring a good prize?

when she looks at you she sees a ruby in her eternal crown.

Goliath · #21 04-04-2008, 06:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miss Shelby

Quote:

Originally Posted by freemonkey

Quote:

Originally Posted by LadyShea

Welp, there's the issue right on their front page. She is required to proselytize

I know it. Like I said, she already knew my stance, I'm guessing I would bring a good prize?

when she looks at you she sees a ruby in her eternal crown.

And if she doesn't manage to convert freemonkey, then she'll look forward to seeing freemonkey burning in hell for all eternity while she watches and cheers from her perch in heaven. It's a win-win!

:puke:

freemonkey · #22 04-04-2008, 06:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Goliath

And if she doesn't manage to convert freemonkey, then she'll look forward to seeing freemonkey burning in hell for all eternity while she watches and cheers from her perch in heaven. It's a win-win!

I don't think that's anything she'd look forward to seeing, which makes it all the more insidious. I can't dislike her for it. She probably worries for me.

Goliath · #23 04-04-2008, 06:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by freemonkey

I don't think that's anything she'd look forward to seeing

Hmmm...are you sure? One of the perks of heaven is supposed to be a front row seat for watching the burning sinners and infidels.

freemonkey · #24 04-04-2008, 06:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miss Shelby

Quote:

Originally Posted by freemonkey

OK, so, back to my real question... is one Christian church really essentially all that different from another when it comes down to what they actually believe?

yes and no.

What are some of the major differences? I mean the actual essentials, not the way they dress them up.

Miss Shelby · #25 04-04-2008, 06:14 PM

Quote:

And if she doesn't manage to convert freemonkey, then she'll look forward to seeing freemonkey burning in hell for all eternity while she watches and cheers from her perch in heaven. It's a win-win!
.

welp, all's I know is that when i come here i see a bunch of glittery diamonds. What with my excellent witnessing skills and all.

I have a friend who goes to the female strip clubs to witness. His philosphy is that you shouldn't be too overt when handing out tracts. So he chooses to slip dollar bills into their g-strings, because it says 'In God We Trust' They seem to like it. He'll get some jewels in his crown some day, too.