The stupid thread for tax policy flamewar snoozathon

[Sauron]

Originally Posted by Jerome

How often do you collect the wealth tax if not yearly?

Where is it written that taxes must be collected yearly?

[Jerome]

Originally Posted by Sauron

Where is it written that taxes must be collected yearly?

How else can government budget?

[Sauron]

Originally Posted by Jerome

How else can government budget?

Is the estate tax collected yearly?
Is sales tax collected yearly?
Are excise taxes collected yearly?
Are social security taxes collected yearly?

If not, how does the government budget?

[chunksmediocrites]

Originally Posted by Jerome

The first $1 of profit will be taxed.

What percentage do you estimate it would be necessary to tax profits at? Or is the tax $1 per annum?

Originally Posted by Jerome

All of the above including wage earners.

What qualifies as profit for wage earners, in your model?

You stated you wanted to cut all program funding, and you obliquely referenced cutting funding for foreign wars. Discretionary spending enacted for the fiscal year 2012 is $1.338 trillion. Mandatory spending enacted for the fiscal year is $2.252 trillion. That totals to $3.59 trillion. To what level would you like to cut the annual budget?

The primary categories in the federal budget are Medicare/ Medicaid / CHIP, defense & international security assistance, Social Security, safety net programs, veterans & federal retirees, interest on debt, transportation infrastructure, education, science + med research, and foreign aid. Which would you cut the most, and which would you cut the least, or would you cut them all equally?

In the federal government here is the Department of State, Department of the Treasury, Department of Defense, Department of Justice, Department of the Interior, Department of Agriculture, Department of Commerce, Department of Labor, Department of Health and Human Services, Department of Housing and Urban Development, Department of Transportation, Department of Energy, Department of Education, Department of Veterans Affairs, and the Department of Homeland Security; as well, the Environmental Protection Agency is considered to be cabinet level. Would you retain all these departments and agencies (including other agencies and government programs), or remove some, and which would you cut the most and which the least, or would you cut funding to all equally?

[Jerome]

Originally Posted by Sauron

Is the estate tax collected yearly?
Is sales tax collected yearly?
Are excise taxes collected yearly?
Are social security taxes collected yearly?

This question may be too much for you, but I will try regardless.

How often should a wealth tax be collected?


from here sauron is left with arguing that it is not his claim

[Jerome]

Originally Posted by chunksmediocrites

What percentage do you estimate it would be necessary to tax profits at? Or is the tax $1 per annum?

Well, what works best for all is my consideration. 40-80% idk, somewhere in that range.

Profit is extra, if you are not using it, if you are hoarding you can, but society takes a portion of the excess.

Working people do not have excess.

[Jerome]

Originally Posted by chunksmediocrites

What qualifies as profit for wage earners, in your model?

Beyond a home, food, clothing, medical care, schooling ...., there is a reasonable place we can find a standard which should not be taxed.

Really, why are we taxing college students on their wages in the pizza parlor?

[Jerome]

Originally Posted by chunksmediocrites

You stated you wanted to cut all program funding, and you obliquely referenced cutting funding for foreign wars. Discretionary spending enacted for the fiscal year 2012 is $1.338 trillion. Mandatory spending enacted for the fiscal year is $2.252 trillion. That totals to $3.59 trillion. To what level would you like to cut the annual budget?

The numbers are always irrelevant. Percentage of a society is the pertinent information.

How much, that changes. The goal should be the correct amount at the time to the greatest benefit for the most people.

[chunksmediocrites]

Originally Posted by Jerome

Beyond a home, food, clothing, medical care, schooling ...., there is a reasonable place we can find a standard which should not be taxed.

Transportation? Retirement savings? Saving for college expenses for one's children? Saving for medical expenses, or for a down-payment on a home? Do you tax pensions?

What if I spend all my remaining income each year on stuff that is not home, food, clothing, medical care, schooling? Say I spend it all on antiques, or liquor, or stuffed animals, or backrubs, or comic books, or on hot-rodding out a muscle car, and have zero savings. Will I then not be taxed? Or do I turn in itemized lists and receipts each year to the IRS?

If I install gold faucets, is that not taxed since it is installed in my home? How about a jacuzzi? Or an elevator for my car?

How about if I buy handmade shoes, mink coats, and Savile Row suits? Not taxed?

Is it important for a society for families in that society to have some savings?

Do you ascribe to the theory that, "taxes discourage the thing being taxed?"

[chunksmediocrites]

Originally Posted by Jerome

The numbers are always irrelevant. Percentage of a society is the pertinent information.

I'm not sure I understand what you mean when you say percentage of a society. Percent of GDP? Please explain.

[Watser?]

Ok, am I the only one who by now is sick to death of hearing about Pussy Riot? Why is this an important issue? Why do we feel the need to point at this as some kind of sign that Russia is so bad and should be ashamed of itself when the Freedom of Speech situation in our own countries is not exactly improving and the band would have definitely been arrested and tried in any Western country and definitely in the US for playing protest songs in a fucking church. I don't want to fucking hear it. And especially not in large letter at the BBC telling us of the British government's response, while in smaller print below they are covering how the British government is threatening Ecuador over Julian Assange.

[godfry n. glad]

It's a diversion?

[Clutch Munny]

Heh. Pussy!

[Watser?]

I was actually looking for that general miscellaneous political thread, but now I see this wasn't it.

[Sauron]

Originally Posted by Jerome

This question may be too much for you, but I will try regardless.

How often should a wealth tax be collected?

You claimed that godfry's plan required annual taxation.
You also implied that government budgeting was impossible with such annual taxation.
I asked four questions above about the frequency of various taxes.
Why haven't you answered them?

from here sauron is left with arguing that it is not his claim

No, I will argue that:

1. you have not demonstrated that anyone asked for a yearly tax, and that
2. you have not demonstrated any law or practical requirement of govt budgeting that translates to needing annual collection of such a tax.

[Sauron]

Originally Posted by chunksmediocrites

I'm not sure I understand what you mean when you say percentage of a society. Percent of GDP? Please explain.

And while he's at it, maybe he'll provide:

1. a formula for calculating profit, as well as
b. a definition of what counts as profit.

[chunksmediocrites]

This chart, looking at taxes as a percentage of GDP, speaks volumes:



Yves Smith:

Now admittedly, there are some apples and oranges problems with this chart, in that the other countries on the list have government paid medical systems or public/private systems. And Australia has a publicly-mandated private pension scheme in which employers are required to set aside 9% of wages into a “superannuation” fund (workers are encouraged to contribute as well). Of course, we do have a higher level of military spending than the other countries on the list (although if you check the World Bank rankings, some small countries have a bigger proportion of GDP in military expenditures, such as Saudi Arabia). Nevertheless, the overall picture is striking.
...>snip<...
Americans have been trained to resent taxes even though we are trying to run an advanced economy Walmart-style. My impression is that the citizens of many other countries are far less exercised about higher tax levels because they perceive they are getting value for money (medical services, good public transportation, etc). By contrast, we’ve had a 30 year campaign to make government incompetent by running it on the cheap and demonizing people who work in government jobs, and the result is less service and more corruption. This experiment is working just fine for those wealthy enough to be effectively stateless or to otherwise isolate themselves. And it will probably take at least a generation for the costs (such as public health problems) to afflict even them. Nicely played.

Original of the chart above can be found here at Citizens for Tax Justice.

[The Man]

How Corporations Avoid Paying Taxes | The Onion - America's Finest News Source

[The Man]

On a more serious note:

MATH PROBLEM: If BP Made $36 Billion In 2010, And Their Tax Rate Is 35%, How Big Was Their Tax Bill?

Spoiler: It's $0.