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10-29-2008, 01:17 PM
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Now in six dimensions!
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: The Cotswolds
Gender: Male
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Re: How to turn your child into an idiot.
I love all the random "quote marks" in this thread. It reminds me of a spontaneous game me and my sister used to play, where we'd take a perfectly normal sentence one of us (or one of our parents) had uttered, and repeat it with every possible permutation of the "quote marks" (you all know how to do them in your voices, right?).
By which I mean, ever "possible" permutation of the quote marks.
Every possible "permutation" of the quote marks.
You should try it one day, it's great fun!
Also, we didn't have a gaming console.
__________________
The miracle of the appropriateness of the language of mathematics for the formulation of the laws of physics is a wonderful gift which we neither understand nor deserve. -Eugene Wigner
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10-29-2008, 02:03 PM
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Re: How to turn your child into an idiot.
. . . and then you started torturing small animals . . .
. . . now you keep a "hunting lodge."
Or is that "now 'you' keep a 'hunting "lodge?"'"
--J.D.
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10-29-2008, 03:13 PM
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Vice Cobra Assistant Commander
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Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Indianapolis, IN, USA
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Re: How to turn your child into an idiot.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GodPossessed
Good luck with anything but rhetoric from dis bunch.
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Objection! Nothing I've posted in this thread rises to the level of rhetoric. It's all joaks and troaling, as far as the eye can see.
__________________
"Trans Am Jesus" is "what hanged me"
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10-29-2008, 03:15 PM
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Fishy mokey
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Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Furrin parts
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Re: How to turn your child into an idiot.
Waste of perfectly good smilie oportunity!
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10-29-2008, 03:19 PM
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the internet says I'm right
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Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Western U.S.
Gender: Male
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Re: How to turn your child into an idiot.
We have that and you didn't use it?! For shame!
__________________
For Science!Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum videtur.
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10-29-2008, 03:33 PM
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Vice Cobra Assistant Commander
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Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Indianapolis, IN, USA
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Re: How to turn your child into an idiot.
:shame:
__________________
"Trans Am Jesus" is "what hanged me"
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10-29-2008, 03:39 PM
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Fishy mokey
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Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Furrin parts
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Re: How to turn your child into an idiot.
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10-29-2008, 04:22 PM
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the internet says I'm right
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Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Western U.S.
Gender: Male
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Re: How to turn your child into an idiot.
Sorry, I meant: For "shame"!
__________________
For Science!Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum videtur.
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10-29-2008, 06:28 PM
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Vice Cobra Assistant Commander
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Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Indianapolis, IN, USA
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Re: How to turn your child into an idiot.
Needs moar lulz. Out with the seekrit message already.
__________________
"Trans Am Jesus" is "what hanged me"
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10-30-2008, 10:38 AM
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A3 - authentic anarchist asshole
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Re: How to turn your child into an idiot.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GodPossessed
Good luck with anything but rhetoric from dis bunch.
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Oh, come on! This could be fun!
Quote:
Originally Posted by yguy
Quote:
Originally Posted by LadyShea
yguy, I am interested in the subtext you believe exists but that I seem to be missing.
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I'll probably let it sit awhile longer and see if any more decent responses trickle in, but you'll get a response on that.
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Actually, I would like to register my vote and ask that you refrain from posting your analysis.
You see, I just upgraded my operating system and I had not loaded all of the drivers. So, I could not automatically play media files. The only thing I could view are the responses.
NOTE TO ANYBODY WHO HAS NOT LISTENED TO THE ADVERTIZEMENT YET:
Turn this into a game or a warped form of entertainment. Do not listen to the ad and just read everybody's responses instead! [If you must, listen to the ad after the thread dies. I know it is tempting to listen to the ad but chances are pretty good -- based on the responses so far -- that it is pretty dumb anyway.]
So far, the best way that I can describe this thread from my point of view is that it is a cross between playing Telephone and Monkey In The Middle where the monkey is a really short guy (pbuh).
__________________
Fight cyber with cyber and initiate no aggression.
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10-30-2008, 05:13 PM
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Re: How to turn your child into an idiot.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LadyShea
I don't use a sing-songy voice
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Bearing in mind that the ad itself acknowledges that children have natural curiosity, why do you think this woman does what you do not? And what purpose does it serve for the child to be subjected to her running commentary?
__________________
"If you had a brain, what would you do with it?"
~ Dorothy ~
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10-30-2008, 05:26 PM
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I said it, so I feel it, dick
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Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Here
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Re: How to turn your child into an idiot.
Quote:
Originally Posted by yguy
Bearing in mind that the ad itself acknowledges that children have natural curiosity, why do you think this woman does what you do not?
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Use the sing-songy voice? It's something most people do with very small children, and there is some research/evidence that babies and toddlers respond better to it actually. Something about the long drawn out vowels etc. is supposed to help with their language development or something.
It's just not natural for me to do so, and my kid has always been advanced verbally, so I wasn't motivated to force it. Had he not started talking early, or had not talked as well as he did, I might have made changes based on the research.
Quote:
And what purpose does it serve for the child to be subjected to her running commentary?
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It helps them learn; words, concepts, comparisons. I talk to my kid about everything, and describe things, and ask questions etc I just use a more conversational tone.
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10-30-2008, 06:11 PM
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Re: How to turn your child into an idiot.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LadyShea
Quote:
Originally Posted by yguy
Bearing in mind that the ad itself acknowledges that children have natural curiosity, why do you think this woman does what you do not?
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Use the sing-songy voice? It's something most people do with very small children, and there is some research/evidence that babies and toddlers respond better to it actually.
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Regardless of the value of the research, I'm not looking for any post hoc justifications. I'm asking why parents - women especially - tend to do it without coaching.
And what does "respond better" mean?
Quote:
Quote:
And what purpose does it serve for the child to be subjected to her running commentary?
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It helps them learn; words, concepts, comparisons.
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If children have natural curiosity, why do they need all the prompting? What necessitates the steady stream of verbal input?
__________________
"If you had a brain, what would you do with it?"
~ Dorothy ~
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10-30-2008, 06:21 PM
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Vice Cobra Assistant Commander
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Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Indianapolis, IN, USA
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Re: How to turn your child into an idiot.
Quote:
Originally Posted by yguy
I'm not looking for any post hoc justifications. I'm asking why parents - women especially - tend to do it without coaching.
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Studies have shown that it's more or less universal feature of human parenting (Google "motherese"), so the obvious answer is that the Ad Council's insidious reach is far greater than we initially suspected.
__________________
"Trans Am Jesus" is "what hanged me"
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10-30-2008, 06:34 PM
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I said it, so I feel it, dick
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Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Here
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Re: How to turn your child into an idiot.
Quote:
Originally Posted by yguy
Regardless of the value of the research, I'm not looking for any post hoc justifications. I'm asking why parents - women especially - tend to do it without coaching.
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I dunno, though it seems quite universal as Adam pointed out. Perhaps it's hormonally triggered? Maybe it not coming natural to me, is because I did not gestate or give birth to my son.
Quote:
And what does "respond better" mean?
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Just as mothers appear to be hardwired to sing-song, babies seem to be hardwired to be receptive and responsive to it in general.
Quote:
If children have natural curiosity, why do they need all the prompting? What necessitates the steady stream of verbal input?
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It's not necessary I guess, but kids who are frequently spoken to seem to develop better receptive and expressive language skills. It's basically naming, defining, and comparing things using language, which one cannot learn through curiosity alone.
Last edited by LadyShea; 10-30-2008 at 07:01 PM.
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10-30-2008, 06:35 PM
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liar in wolf's clothing
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Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Frequently about
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Re: How to turn your child into an idiot.
Quote:
Originally Posted by yguy
If children have natural curiosity, why do they need all the prompting? What necessitates the steady stream of verbal input?
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I don't know what you're looking for, nor do I particularly care, but this does bring up an interesting thing.
Earlier this month, or maybe last month, This American Life had a story on "Baby College" and referenced a study examining the correlation between socioeconomic status, test performance, social mobility, and how much parents talk to their children. It was really interesting, so I did some hunting online. Here is a brief summary.
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10-30-2008, 07:20 PM
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professional left-winger
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Re: How to turn your child into an idiot.
[quote=ChuckF;613352]
Quote:
Originally Posted by yguy
Earlier this month, or maybe last month, This American Life had a story on "Baby College" and referenced a study examining the correlation between socioeconomic status, test performance, social mobility, and how much parents talk to their children. It was really interesting, so I did some hunting online. Here is a brief summary.
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I listened to that show and it was very interesting, and uplifting.
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10-30-2008, 09:56 PM
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Projecting my phallogos with long, hard diction
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Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Dee Cee
Gender: Male
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Re: How to turn your child into an idiot.
Quote:
Originally Posted by yguy
Regardless of the value of the research, I'm not looking for any post hoc justifications. I'm asking why parents - women especially - tend to do it without coaching.
And what does "respond better" mean?
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Why do you care why they use "motherese"?
Also, "respond better" means "they pay more attention", which can translate to "learning language faster".
Quote:
If children have natural curiosity, why do they need all the prompting? What necessitates the steady stream of verbal input?
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Natural curiosity does not mean that they will learn the words for things automatically without you doing anything.
In some cultures, they don't use "motherese". I don't think it makes that appreciable a difference. At any rate, it certainly hasn't been shown to make children stupider.
But regardless of culture, children need to hear language in order to learn it.
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10-30-2008, 10:22 PM
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I said it, so I feel it, dick
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Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Here
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Re: How to turn your child into an idiot.
I still don't understand what you are taking issue with in the ad yguy.
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10-30-2008, 10:54 PM
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Dogehlaugher -Scrutari
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Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Northwest
Gender: Female
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Re: How to turn your child into an idiot.
I thought the specific thing they learn from Motherease is the way vowels are used in the language. If you pay attention, one notices that the vowels are drawn out in this type of baby language.
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10-30-2008, 11:11 PM
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Re: How to turn your child into an idiot.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChuckF
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Reminds me of a Steve Martin routine: I bought a stereo...but the ear becomes more discerning after awhile...so I bought the quad system... Listened to it for a few days and said, "This sounds like s***"...so I got the dodecaphonic...then I got the milliphonic...then I got the googolphonic...And after listening to that awhile I said, "This sounds like s***."
Then I thought, "Hey, maybe it's the needle." The difference being that these researchers haven't quite made it that far.
__________________
"If you had a brain, what would you do with it?"
~ Dorothy ~
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10-30-2008, 11:12 PM
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no fact/value split
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Join Date: Jan 2008
Gender: Male
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Re: How to turn your child into an idiot.
How do you suppose that this is affecting my cat Tinkerbell? She's Mommy's widdle bitty baby guuuuuuurl.
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10-30-2008, 11:33 PM
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Re: How to turn your child into an idiot.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LadyShea
Quote:
Originally Posted by yguy
Regardless of the value of the research, I'm not looking for any post hoc justifications. I'm asking why parents - women especially - tend to do it without coaching.
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I dunno, though it seems quite universal as Adam pointed out. Perhaps it's hormonally triggered?
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I'm asking what makes it look like a good idea from a rational standpoint.
Quote:
Quote:
And what does "respond better" mean?
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Just as mothers appear to be hardwired to sing-song, babies seem to be hardwired to be receptive and responsive to it in general.
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IOW, there is something about it that commands the child's attention, though not in an overbearing manner. Agree?
Quote:
Quote:
If children have natural curiosity, why do they need all the prompting? What necessitates the steady stream of verbal input?
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It's not necessary I guess, but kids who are frequently spoken to
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That's not what we're seeing in that ad, the authors of which obviously believe holding the child's attention in this manner IS necessary, or at least desirable. Why is it either of those?
__________________
"If you had a brain, what would you do with it?"
~ Dorothy ~
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10-30-2008, 11:35 PM
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Re: How to turn your child into an idiot.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GodPossessed
How do you suppose that this is affecting my cat Tinkerbell?
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Sounds like a question for the experts at Bertha's Kitty Boutique, the Store for People who Care about Cats.
__________________
"If you had a brain, what would you do with it?"
~ Dorothy ~
Last edited by yguy; 10-31-2008 at 12:55 AM.
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10-31-2008, 12:13 AM
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Re: How to turn your child into an idiot.
She is progressively losing her soul to Basement Kitteh.
--J.D.
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