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  #26  
Old 10-24-2017, 04:39 PM
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Default Re: is it there?

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Is the emperor sexy? Do I want to see the emperor naked?

This is important.
Pretty sure it's not normal to masturbate over this subject. Do you express a defense mechanism?
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  #27  
Old 10-24-2017, 04:47 PM
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Default Re: is it there?

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Originally Posted by ceptimus View Post
...
I still don't understand the point you're trying to make. Subjective experiences are an emergent phenomenon that occur in sufficiently complex mechanisms that are able to sense their environment. They're not a yes/no thing. ...
That may be a good idea. But it isn't yet a hypothesis, let alone a theory! And you present it as if it were factual.

I am saying that science has no grasp yet on what may or may not be sufficient to give rise to subjective experience. Yet science-minded people are apt to proceed as if we know what the f we are talking about. I submit ceptimus as case in point.
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  #28  
Old 10-25-2017, 12:36 AM
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I read some of your foolish scree, then just skimmed the rest.
 
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Default Re: is it there?

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Pretty sure it's not normal to masturbate over this subject. Do you express a defense mechanism?
Do you not know humans or what!?
One of the few things that separates us from other animals is our ability to masturbate over something, anytime, anywhere.
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  #29  
Old 10-25-2017, 12:45 AM
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Default Re: is it there?

The whole thread is one of the wankiest :ff: threads evah! :fap:
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  #30  
Old 10-25-2017, 12:48 AM
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Default Re: is it there?

I find this thread difficult to masturbate to, but it is far from being the least suitable fap fodder in the history of this message board.
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  #31  
Old 10-25-2017, 06:04 AM
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Default Re: is it there?

We need a lightning bolts from the sun smiley.

But in the meantime, this will suffice

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  #32  
Old 10-25-2017, 04:41 PM
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Default Re: is it there?

The second greatest mystery ever, and the alpha crew at FF is afraid to tackle it.

ceptimus took a stab but doesn't want to follow through.
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  #33  
Old 10-25-2017, 05:12 PM
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Default Re: is it there?

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I find this thread difficult to masturbate to, but it is far from being the least suitable fap fodder in the history of this message board.
It's kinda like Frank Zappa's The Black Page in that regard; you can dance to it, but it really hurts (subjectively, of course).
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  #34  
Old 10-25-2017, 05:12 PM
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Default Re: is it there?

I said you are a bunch of intellectual cowards. Scared of truth. The emperor has no clothes.
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  #35  
Old 10-25-2017, 05:22 PM
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Default Re: is it there?

Quote:
Originally Posted by erimir View Post
We need a lightning bolts from the sun smiley.
Funny you should mention that. Extensive research regarding subjective experience is currently under way in the Sovereign Autocracy of Rape Island (formerly the Pitcairn Islands) using bimbo tween slaves as test subjects. All we need do is sit back and wait for the written peer-reviewed study.
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  #36  
Old 10-25-2017, 05:59 PM
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Default Re: is it there?

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Originally Posted by ceptimus View Post
No. I said if it was such a big deal to "prove" that it exists then it's easier to say that perhaps it doesn't....
Does easiness of saying stuff determine reality? YOU feel stuff, so subjective experience exists. Why are arguing that maybe it is easier to say that perhaps you don't feel stuff?
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  #37  
Old 10-25-2017, 06:00 PM
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Default Re: is it there?

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Originally Posted by ceptimus View Post
No. I said if it was such a big deal to "prove" that it exists then it's easier to say that perhaps it doesn't....
Does easiness of saying stuff determine reality? YOU feel stuff, so subjective experience exists. Why are you arguing that maybe it is easier to say that perhaps you don't feel stuff? Are you an ostrich?
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  #38  
Old 10-25-2017, 09:02 PM
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Default Re: is it there?

Lately Flo has been fapping :fap: to the (subjective) fantasy of being entangled in a threesome, entwined with the gorilla-like arms of Harvey Weinstein and Bill O'Reilly, while socking down buckets of whiskey. Are such fantasies normal for old ladies like me, boys? :undunno: Or should Flo seek help?
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  #39  
Old 10-25-2017, 11:28 PM
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I read some of your foolish scree, then just skimmed the rest.
 
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Default Re: is it there?

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Originally Posted by apathist View Post
Are you an ostrich?
Shit! The gigs up! book it!
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  #40  
Old 10-26-2017, 03:54 PM
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Default Re: is it there?

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Quote:
Originally Posted by apathist View Post
Are you an ostrich?
Shit! The gigs up! book it!...
Well! That changes everything.
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  #41  
Old 10-26-2017, 04:35 PM
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Default Re: is it there?

Quote:
Originally Posted by apathist View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by ceptimus View Post
If you can't tell whether or not something/somebody has subjective experiences, then it's not an important thing to know.

How do you even know that YOU have subjective experiences? If you can't prove it to someone else then maybe you're just fooling yourself. Maybe subjective experiences don't really exist.
I get that we may not interpret our experiences correctly. But I can easily prove that you and me have all sorts of subjective experiences. I have some pliers and bone saws here. Ready for the proof?
You meant, "you and I," did you not?

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  #42  
Old 10-26-2017, 04:55 PM
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Default Re: is it there?

Quote:
Originally Posted by apathist View Post
There is an elephant in the room.

The emperor has no clothes.

How can you tell whether something has subjective experiences, or not.

Bugs? Stars? [hidden]I was still inside the box there[/hidden]
Does it respond to external stimuli? Then it may have subjective experiences. Are those experiences similar to those that we would identify as pleasurable or painful? For vertebrates, I think, the answer is yes, and I think that is a consensus among scientists who study the matter. And there is some indication that the responses of at least some invertebrates to stimuli that would cause pain to many vertebrates are more than simple reflexes:

"Do Lobsters and other invertebrates feel pain? New research has some answers."

[Transcript of an interesting episode of "Invisibilia" podcast here: Emotions, Part 1: How we interpret an experience can depend on culture--". . . without concepts you will feel pleasant or unpleasant. You can feel pleasure. You can feel high arousal, being worked up. You can feel low activation, but you don't really feel anger, sadness, fear, disgust or any of the other emotions that we think of as being given to us by nature." The messages our bodies give our brains are "simple feelings of pleasantness, unpleasantness, arousal, calmness."]
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  #43  
Old 10-26-2017, 05:04 PM
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Default Re: is it there?

Still not quite clear on WHO the emperor is that you say has no clothes, and why. "The elephant is in the room. The emperor has no clothes." Did the elephant enter the room because he/she was passing by the emperor's room and saw that the emperor had no clothes? Did the elephant find that arousing, and enter the room to have sexual congress with the emperor? Did the emperor open the door of the room to find the elephant there, become aroused by the sight of the elephant, and strip off his clothes to have sexual congress with the elephant? Do you question the ability of scientists to answer questions such as these?

. . . or do you just like to masturbate to fantasies about naked emperors frolicking--indoors--with elephants? Does that make you happy? Would a scientist observing you be able to tell?
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  #44  
Old 10-26-2017, 05:41 PM
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Default Re: is it there?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShottleBop View Post
...
Does it respond to external stimuli? Then it may have subjective experiences. ...
Thermostats. Streetlights. Striking a match. They may (you say) have subjective experiences, and of course they may not.

Welcome to the scientific understanding of subjective experience.
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  #45  
Old 10-26-2017, 05:44 PM
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Default Re: is it there?

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Still not quite clear on WHO the emperor is that you say has no clothes, and why. ...
Those who claim or act as if scientific understanding has any sort of handle whatsoever on the nature of subjective experience.
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  #46  
Old 10-26-2017, 06:05 PM
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Default Re: is it there?

Quote:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShottleBop View Post
...
Does it respond to external stimuli? Then it may have subjective experiences. ...
Thermostats. Streetlights. Striking a match. They may (you say) have subjective experiences, and of course they may not.

Welcome to the scientific understanding of subjective experience.
Duh. And don't be so fucking condescending. Folks in these here parts don't take kindly to condescension.
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  #47  
Old 10-26-2017, 06:06 PM
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Default Re: is it there?

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShottleBop View Post
Still not quite clear on WHO the emperor is that you say has no clothes, and why. ...
Those who claim or act as if scientific understanding has any sort of handle whatsoever on the nature of subjective experience.
So, a whole committee of emperors, having an orgy with the single poor elephant?
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  #48  
Old 10-27-2017, 05:22 PM
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Default Re: is it there?

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...
Duh. And don't be so fucking condescending.
I should pretend that people have meaningful answers for me, to protect you?
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  #49  
Old 10-27-2017, 09:15 PM
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Default Re: is it there?

Why not? You pretend to have meaningful questions.
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  #50  
Old 10-27-2017, 10:11 PM
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I read some of your foolish scree, then just skimmed the rest.
 
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Default Re: is it there?

Yeah, like what is your actual point?
Is english your second language or are you being purposefully obtuse and aloof because you think it makes you seem smarter?
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