Car Talk

[Charmion]

I'm having a tuneup on my Mazda 626 on Thursday. I can't decide which spark plugs I should have installed. I was told that the original plugs are probably Motorcraft but I think the garage planned on using Bosch spark plugs. I heard a comment that Bosch plugs don't work well in most American cars although Mazda isn't an American car. The garage recommended cleaning the fuel injectors as well.

I was also wondering about wires. Any recommendations? Does it depend on the model and make of the car more than anything else?

No use looking it up on the Internet. Each company says theirs is the best anyway. Perhaps I'm worrying needlessly. After all, it's not a race car.

Here she is right here (same color and everything):



Here are a few. Also, I've heard some unfavorable comments about platinum spark plugs.

I just called the parts department at a Mazda dealer and they said that Motorcraft spark plugs were used in the pickups but NGK spark plugs are used in the Mazda 626 and Mazda Protege--as far as the original equipment.

AC Delco
Autolite
Bosch
Champion
Denso
Iridium
Motorcraft
NGK

[ceptimus]

I used to try different plugs in my car when I was younger. I tried ones with fancy shaped electrodes, platinum tips, some that were advertised has having a copper core, and so on. But I can't honestly say that it ever made any noticable difference, except to my bank balance.

I now think as long as plugs aren't worn out, are the recommended type for your engine and are gapped correctly, then it doesn't make much difference what brand you buy. Think about it - if the manufacturers of the car could get better performance or better mileage from their engines by spending a few extra dollars on plugs, then they surely would.

The car I have now is a diesel so I don't have to worry about plugs for that.

With leads, the main thing is that they are in good condition with no obvious cracks in the insulation. And install them properly so that they can't vibrate around and chafe on parts of the engine or get melted / too hot by an exhaust manifold. Use cable ties or insulation tape if necessary to keep them tidy. Remember though, that the engine does (usually) move around a bit on its flexible mountings, so it's best to attach the leads to the engine, or things directly connected to the engine, rather than to the chassis or bodywork - that way the engine and leads can all move together without putting any strain on the leads.

In motorbikes, where plugs have a harder life with the higher revs and greater state of tune, I've always found NGK plugs work well. This brand tends to be fitted as original equipment to most Japanese bikes - probably because it's a Japanese brand - but with motorbikes, performance is an even greater selling point than with cars so if, say, Bosch plugs produced just one more horsepower, you can bet that Honda, Suzuki, Yamaha and Kawasaki would all be racing to fit them.

[The Lone Ranger]

The guys from "Car Talk" have a website where you can ask them questions. Might be worth a shot.

Cheers,

Michael

[Charmion]

Originally Posted by The Lone Ranger

The guys from "Car Talk" have a website where you can ask them questions. Might be worth a shot.

Cheers,

Michael

Thanks. I did go to the website and they recommened NGK spark plugs for my car and NGK 8180 for the wires.

I'm having second thoughts about the tuneup. I may look for a local backyard mechanic after seeing the estimate. It seems that garages have differing opinions about what constitutes a tuneup. $535 for a tuneup--although that included a brake evaluation of $15.00. Give me a break!

Spark Plugs
Spark Plug Wires
Ignition Coil
PCV Valve
Inst. Emission Tune-up
Fuel Filter
Fuel System, 3 Part Service
Brake Eval Service

Labor - $332.00

[Anastasia Beaverhausen]

Originally Posted by The Lone Ranger

The guys from "Car Talk" have a website where you can ask them questions. Might be worth a shot.

Cheers,

Michael

I was going to suggest she call Click & Clack.

[Dingfod]

NGK's are fine spark plugs, I ran them in my Honda motorcycle. The reason the Mazda trucks use Motorcraft (Ford) parts is the B2300, B2500, B3000 and B4100 actually are Ford Rangers with Ford engines in them. The older B2000 and B2200 trucks had Mazda engines, and the B2600 had a Mitsubishi engine. And get the platinum, they last 100,000 miles or more.

[Dingfod]

Originally Posted by Charmion

Thanks. I did go to the website and they recommened NGK spark plugs for my car and NGK 8180 for the wires.

I'm having second thoughts about the tuneup. I may look for a local backyard mechanic after seeing the estimate. It seems that garages have differing opinions about what constitutes a tuneup. $535 for a tuneup--although that included a brake evaluation of $15.00. Give me a break!

Spark Plugs
Spark Plug Wires
Ignition Coil
PCV Valve
Inst. Emission Tune-up
Fuel Filter
Fuel System, 3 Part Service
Brake Eval Service

Labor - $332.00

That is extremely high considering how little they have to do to do a tuneup these days. Spark plugs can't take more than a half hour to change and since you have that end of the wire off already, they're almost half done with the wire change. I would say about an hour total for those. The PCV valve takes about 20 seconds to change. I have no idea what "Inst. Emission Tune-up" is or how that differs from "Fuel System, 3 Part Service". Fuel filters can be easy or hard to get at, that can vary quite a bit, from five minutes to maybe 20 minutes to change. I also don't know what "Fuel System, 3 Part Service" involves. Most tire stores and many mechanic shops will do a brake inspection for free if you're in there for something else.

[Charmion]

Originally Posted by Dingfod

That is extremely high considering how little they have to do to do a tuneup these days. Spark plugs can't take more than a half hour to change and since you have that end of the wire off already, they're almost half done with the wire change. I would say about an hour total for those. The PCV valve takes about 20 seconds to change. I have no idea what "Inst. Emission Tune-up" is or how that differs from "Fuel System, 3 Part Service". Fuel filters can be easy or hard to get at, that can vary quite a bit, from five minutes to maybe 20 minutes to change. I also don't know what "Fuel System, 3 Part Service" involves. Most tire stores and many mechanic shops will do a brake inspection for free if you're in there for something else.

I took a closer look at the estimate. You were asking about the "Fuel System, 3 Part Service."

Fuel System, 3 Part Service includes:

#1 Oil System Treatment
#2 Fuel System Cleaner
#3 Intake Cleaning
Suggested Every 12 months or 15K Miles

The "Inst. Emission Tune-up" is the PCV valve (also known as a Positive Crankcase Ventilation Valve). Obviously that isn't something I would have known if I hadn't read this:

What is a PCV Valve?
The PCV Valve, or Positive Crankcase Ventilation Valve, is an emission control device that routes crankcase blowby gases into the intake manifold where they can be burned. The PCV system is one of the oldest emission control devices, and also one of the most beneficial. Besides totally eliminating crankcase emissions as a source of air pollution, the constant recirculation of air through the crankcase helps remove moisture which would otherwise cause sludge to form. This extends the life of the oil and the engine.

How do I know if my PCV Valve not working?
The way to tell if your PCV valve is bad is not just to shake it, but trying to suck, or blow, air in both directions. If the valve is good, it should allow air to only move in one direction. If no air can move through it or air can move through it in both directions (it should be one-way), then it needs to be replaced. Most vehicles should have them replaced somewhere around 30,000 to 50,000 miles (see your vehicle owners manual for service intervals).

Can I replace a PCV Valve myself?
Yes, PCV valves are easy to replace. They are usually located in the intake manifold or valve cover, and seldom need any tools for removal.

PCV Valve at 1A Auto

[rigorist]

Plugs are plugs for the most part when you are dealing with cars.

Unless the car is running badly or the CHECK ENGINE light is on, you don't need the other stuff.

[Charmion]

Originally Posted by rigorist

Plugs are plugs for the most part when you are dealing with cars.

Unless the car is running badly or the CHECK ENGINE light is on, you don't need the other stuff.

Actually, my "Check Engine" light has been going off and on for years. For the most part, I've been ignoring it. I don't want to pay the diagnostic fee.

[Ensign Steve]

[Charmion]

Originally Posted by Ensign Steve

Thanks. The nearest one here in Maine is in Portland. Something as simple as not having your gas cap on tightly can cause the "Check Engine" light to go on.

Your gas cap isn't on tight enough.
You read that right, it might be your gas cap. Some cars measure how much pressure is building up inside your gas tank. It involves a series of mathematical algorithms that track your driving style and how much pressure is usually in the tank, then set off an alarm if it strays a certain percentage from the average. Whatever. All is means is that if you're gas cap isn't on tight, it thinks something is up and lights the orange dashboard candle, the Check Engine light. Tighten the gas cap and see what happens. It may take a week or more before the light goes out.

Check Engine Light - Turning Off A Check Engine Light - Check Engine Checkup

[Charmion]

Do you think it's worth it to pay a little extra money to have someone change your oil with all the extras. I've gone to the same Express Lube for many years. The price is $29.95 + tax = $32.85. Also included is a free car wash. It just takes a few minutes. I hardly have time to finish a cup of coffee while I'm waiting.

• Change Oil up to 5 Quarts
• Install New Premium Oil Filter
• Lubricate Chassis
• Check/Fill Gear Box Fluid
• Check/Fill Wiper Fluid
• Check/Fill Power Steering Fluid
• Check/fill BatteryFluid
• Check/Fill Transmission Fluid
• Check Brake Fluid
• Check Air Filter
• Inspect Wiper Blades
• Vacuum Interior Floors
• Inflate Tires to Proper Pressure
• Wash Exterior Windows

[ImGod]

The whole thing sounds expensive to me, but extra stuff like the garage is included in the labor costs. You could buy a repair book for $15, a basic set of sockets $10-20 (with a sparkplug socket), and a couple of screwdrivers and try it yourself.

If the wires need replacing and they're stuck on you can pull them apart or cut them. Wiring and plugs on an inline 4 are about as easy as it gets for engine work. I normally pull mine every spring, clean them, regap and put them back in. The process takes about 15-20 minutes. 30 if beer is involved.

New belts, hoses, spark plugs, a couple of rounds of better fuel injector/fuel system treatment, oil change, etc. would run you ~$100-200. Worst case you could assume the total cost minus the labor quote.

Mazda has used the 2.0L 4 cylinder engine block for years. I have one in a 20 year old truck. The fuel injected dual overhead cam in the 626 puts out more power than my carburated 2.2L version, but the engine is the same with only minor differences (the extra .2L is in the head design). Bulletproof little engine with proper maintenance.

[Charmion]

I just got an estimate from a small, trustworthy garage. I can have the spark plugs and wires replaced for about $125 (including labor). My brother likes the garage so it's a pretty safe bet.

[Dingfod]

Originally Posted by Charmion

I took a closer look at the estimate. You were asking about the "Fuel System, 3 Part Service."

Fuel System, 3 Part Service includes:

#1 Oil System Treatment
#2 Fuel System Cleaner
#3 Intake Cleaning
Suggested Every 12 months or 15K Miles

I have put 112,000 miles on my Trailblazer and it's never had any of the above except for some fuel injector cleaner and it runs so well I'm not getting it done for a while yet. The spark plugs are also original.

Originally Posted by Charmion

The "Inst. Emission Tune-up" is the PCV valve (also known as a Positive Crankcase Ventilation Valve). Obviously that isn't something I would have known if I hadn't read this:

PCV Valve at 1A Auto

Sounds like they were charging you twice for the PCV valve, which is just about the easiest thing to change on any car. Light bulbs are harder to change.

Originally Posted by Charmion

Actually, my "Check Engine" light has been going off and on for years. For the most part, I've been ignoring it. I don't want to pay the diagnostic fee.

Autozone, O'Reilly Auto Parts, and Advance Auto Parts all provide this service at no charge. After all, you may buy a part from them based on what they find.

Originally Posted by Charmion

Do you think it's worth it to pay a little extra money to have someone change your oil with all the extras. I've gone to the same Express Lube for many years. The price is $29.95 + tax = $32.85. Also included is a free car wash. It just takes a few minutes. I hardly have time to finish a cup of coffee while I'm waiting.

• Change Oil up to 5 Quarts
• Install New Premium Oil Filter
• Lubricate Chassis
• Check/Fill Gear Box Fluid
• Check/Fill Wiper Fluid
• Check/Fill Power Steering Fluid
• Check/fill BatteryFluid
• Check/Fill Transmission Fluid
• Check Brake Fluid
• Check Air Filter
• Inspect Wiper Blades
• Vacuum Interior Floors
• Inflate Tires to Proper Pressure
• Wash Exterior Windows

That sounds like a pretty good value. I pay that much and don't get a car wash or the carpets vacuumed. Don't fall for the nitrogen in the tires scam though, steer clear of anyone who tries to argue that it is necessary in any way or makes any difference whatsoever in gas mileage or tire wear.

Originally Posted by Charmion

I just got an estimate from a small, trustworthy garage. I can have the spark plugs and wires replaced for about $125 (including labor). My brother likes the garage so it's a pretty safe bet.

That sounds more reasonable for what they're going to do.

[rigorist]

Originally Posted by Charmion

Do you think it's worth it to pay a little extra money to have someone change your oil with all the extras. I've gone to the same Express Lube for many years. The price is $29.95 + tax = $32.85. Also included is a free car wash. It just takes a few minutes. I hardly have time to finish a cup of coffee while I'm waiting.

• Change Oil up to 5 Quarts
• Install New Premium Oil Filter
• Lubricate Chassis
• Check/Fill Gear Box Fluid
• Check/Fill Wiper Fluid
• Check/Fill Power Steering Fluid
• Check/fill BatteryFluid
• Check/Fill Transmission Fluid
• Check Brake Fluid
• Check Air Filter
• Inspect Wiper Blades
• Vacuum Interior Floors
• Inflate Tires to Proper Pressure
• Wash Exterior Windows

That's not a bad price, I think. It's cheaper to do it yourself, but an oil change is kind of a dirty job. Not hard, but you do have to crawl under the car to drain the old oil and maybe to change the filter (it depends on where it is on the engine). You're paying roughly ten bucks to have somebody else do that and a bunch of other stuff.

[Charmion]

So which air filter would you prefer, the one on the left or the one on the right? Whenever I'm at Express Lube and they let me know when I need a new air filter, they show me the old one so I can see for myself. How do I know that they're not just keeping a dirty one around to show everyone? Just kidding.

I didn't know a dirty air filter turned green.



Wait a minute, I thought an air filter was round like this one?

[Dingfod]

Originally Posted by Charmion

So which air filter would you prefer, the one on the left or the one on the right? Whenever I'm at Express Lube and they let me know when I need a new air filter, they show me the old one so I can see for myself. How do I know that they're not just keeping a dirty one around to show everyone? Just kidding.

I didn't know a dirty air filter turned green.

They don't, so far as I know. I think they're scamming you into buying a replacement at an inflated price when you don't need one. They do that all the time and it pisses me off. You can see the dirt if its dirty. Another way is to hold it up to a light, if you can see light through it, it's not that dirty yet.

Originally Posted by Charmion

Wait a minute, I thought an air filter was round like this one?

Most carbureted and some throttle-body fuel injection cars in the past had round air filters like that, but most of them these days are more like the previous filter picture above.

[slimshady2357]

Arise dead thread

Ok, I guess I don't know how car tires work. I thought I did, but I guess I don't

This all starts last night when I saw a guy out front of our house doing something on our lawn in the rain. He had pulled over next to the house and was bent down doing something, I couldn't tell what from the window. So I went out and asked him if he was alright. He had a flat tire and was going to change it, so I offered to help. I came to find out later he was a doctor originally from Egypt. He had a lovely accent He only had a tiny little travel jack, so I offered to get my proper jack from the garage. Thankfully I asked him first if he had a spare, he said yes, opened up the compartment in the trunk and nothing was there. He turned to look at me and said in a very sad tone (with that lovely accent) "There is no spare".

Luckily he did have a little compressor and we pumped it up and I told him where the nearest spot that might be able to help and might be open at 6:15pm was located. He was travelling and not from the area. As he drove away, I could hear the tyre leaking. So I went back in and told Sou and she quite rightly said I should follow him to make sure he got there OK. So I went out and found him a couple miles down the road filling the tyre again. More annoying things happened, but eventually we got him to a garage that was open until 7pm and they took a look.

Here is where it gets confusing for me. The mechanic took off the tire while a mate of his went to get a new one. But when he had it off, it was clear the rim was badly bent in one spot. This makes sense in that my new friend had said he heard a loud bang when he hit a huge pothole. But what didn't make sense was that the mechanic yelled to his mate "don't need it, it's the rim". I asked him where the air was leaking from if the tire was OK and he looked at me like I was dim, pointed to the bend in the rim and said "from here mate".

Ok, so I thought car tires were like bike tires. There is an inner-tube filled with air wrapped around the rim and the rubber tire goes around the inner-tube for protection. But then how does air leak out around a bent rim when the innertube doesn't need replacing?? Someone explain what is goin on

I googled it quickly and everywhere agrees a bent rim can cause a slow leak or even a flat, but I didn't see anywhere explaining how that works...

[slimshady2357]

Ok I did some more googling and found this: What Are the Different Parts of a Tire? | Firestone Complete Auto Care

So I guess that explains it and this was TTIL that car tires don't have an inner tube

The inner liner (in the center of the tire diagram) is a rubber compound bonded to the inside of the cord body that retains air under pressure. It has no cord reinforcement, and it functions like an inner tube. Note, however, that modern car tires no longer have inner tubes inside them. A tire's beads, bead filler, and inner liner work together to hold air within the tire walls.

So anyway, I guess I am as dim as the mechanic thought

We offered the guy a place to stay for the night since the mechanic said it was too late for him to fix the rim, but he went to a hotel instead. Then we met him for lunch today and had a nice chat. So we made a new friend and learned how car tires work

[specious_reasons]

I thought most modern tires are tubeless, and the tire is sealed onto the rim. Bending the rim could cause a leak in that case. I searched for "cross section of a car tire" and it gives a pretty good visual.

Rumor has it that people in auto shops will steal spare tires - you're not likely to check before you pick your car back up.

[LarsMac]

Originally Posted by specious_reasons

I thought most modern tires are tubeless, and the tire is sealed onto the rim. Bending the rim could cause a leak in that case. I searched for "cross section of a car tire" and it gives a pretty good visual.

Rumor has it that people in auto shops will steal spare tires - you're not likely to check before you pick your car back up.

I suppose there could be a market for those things, I dunno.
Most spares, these days are only designed to get you back on the road to get to a repair shop though.

[JoeP]

Originally Posted by slimshady2357

We offered the guy a place to stay for the night since the mechanic said it was too late for him to fix the rim, but he went to a hotel instead. Then we met him for lunch today and had a nice chat. So we made a new friend and learned how car tires work

Did you invite him to join ?

[slimshady2357]

Originally Posted by JoeP

Did you invite him to join ?

No, I didn't think of it