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  #26  
Old 12-03-2016, 05:13 PM
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Default Re: This is incontrovertible proof that God is evil. God does not live by his own gol

If you want to understand the source material allusions and allegory and metaphors in Western literature, then the stories found in Bible is a great place to start. Even better are the Cliffsnotes for the Old and New Testament, because a) Bible = TL;DR and b) footnotes!

The key word in all the above is stories. Anyone who actually believes that the Bible is a verbatim historical record of actual events or a clear picture of who/what God might be/do/think obviously has not spent any time reviewing the vast array of biblical criticism out there.

Exactly like the Bible, this video also offers a story incontrovertible truth about God.

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  #27  
Old 12-08-2016, 09:05 PM
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Default Re: This is incontrovertible proof that God is evil. God does not live by his own gol

Quote:
Originally Posted by erimir View Post
There's no reason to believe gods exist and the Golden Rule is a decent starting point, but ultimately too simplistic.
I agree with your first.

The golden rule is fairly simple but quite good to me.

Most other systems are generally a derivative of reciprocity and are usually quite similar in intent as like that of the golden rule.

What kind of rules would you put as your first 3 best.

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  #28  
Old 12-08-2016, 09:11 PM
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Default Re: This is incontrovertible proof that God is evil. God does not live by his own gol

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Lone Ranger View Post
I agree that the Bible unambiguously portrays the "God" character as hypocritical, cruel, unfair, and downright evil -- not to mention just plain stupid at times. I've never understood how anyone who has actually read the Bible can say things like "God is love" or even "God is good" with a straight face. One can easily make the case that the Bible portrays Satan as a far more benevolent character.


That having been said, since we're talking about a made-up being, I don't worry about it too much -- no more than I do the evil of Sauron or Lord Voldemort.
I agree with your view of God.

I am disappointed with your last though.

I believe that fore evil to grow, all good people need do is nothing.

You not worrying about the damage that continues to be propagated by the mainstream religions indicates that you are allowing evil to grow.

The mainstream religions are homophobic and misogynous.

Are there no women or gays in your family and should you not be fighting those who would deny them full equality?

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  #29  
Old 12-08-2016, 09:14 PM
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Default Re: This is incontrovertible proof that God is evil. God does not live by his own gol

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kamilah Hauptmann View Post
Given the Golden Rule I was under the impression that God was into some heavy S & M in the early years.
Yes. He was quite the prick back when but Christians tend to ignore his evil ways since he says that if they kiss his ass hard enough, they get to go to heaven and live under his tyranny forever.

Sounds really great. Yes?

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  #30  
Old 12-08-2016, 09:18 PM
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Default Re: This is incontrovertible proof that God is evil. God does not live by his own gol

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Originally Posted by Ari View Post
The golden rule in the old testament is effectively to do unto other kin as you would have them do unto you. So God shouldnt be an asshole to other gods. Humans on the other hand are fair game.

This fits with how humans see the rule, unless you think we want cows to eat us.
I do not see it as only being good to kin.

Have a look at the environment and ponder how good things could be if we treated all of the environment as we would want to be treated if we were the environment.

This doe not mean we could not eat chickens but it would have us treat them in a more humane way.

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  #31  
Old 12-08-2016, 09:23 PM
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Default Re: This is incontrovertible proof that God is evil. God does not live by his own gol

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen Maturin View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gnostic Christian Bishop View Post
Do you agree with Jesus that anyone who breaks the golden rule is evil?
Anyone who adheres to the Golden Rule is self-centered and presumptuous.
Self-centered, yes, as our main gene is our selfish gene.

Presumptuous, you would have to explain as I do not see applying the golden rule as presumptuous as we cannot know if the one we were good to will pass that on. We can hope, but to presume would be thinking too broadly.

If the golden rule is not what you start you moral thinking with, please tell us what you use.

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  #32  
Old 12-08-2016, 09:30 PM
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Default Re: This is incontrovertible proof that God is evil. God does not live by his own gol

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vivisectus View Post
The problem is not that the God of the Bible does not abide by his own rules. The problem is that it isn't a single document, but a compilation of documents that seem to have been written between 500 BCE to 500 ce, give or take a century or so.

You can hardly expect it to be consistent. People with vastly different agendas, social and historical backgrounds, and goals wrote it. And redacted it. And re-wrote the redaction, appending bits of older narratives to the new bits, because they wanted to borrow the authority of the older text, but now they wanted the outcome of the text to match their own goals, in a completely different society / political situation / historical setting etc.

What is surprising is that this has been common knowledge among anyone but the most amazingly uninformed for well over a century, and yet people still insist on using as a sort of operating manual for life and the world, a sort of face-value document you can just read and then draw straightforward conclusions from.

I think any thoughtful religious person would agree that you can read the Bible for inspiration, but that saying stuff like "God is/thinks/wants so and so because here there is a passage in the Bible that seems to agree" is foolhardy.

And frankly, I like that about the Bible: we all think we have read it, but it remains impossible to pin down definitively. If you are really honest, you can never use it as a authority over someone else: whatever opinion you want the Bible to justify, there is a good chance you will find it saying the exact opposite in some other part.

The Bible does not really allow for the kind of simplistic statements like "God is A because here it says B". Which is funny because it seems to be what a lot of people spend a lot of time doing with it, including the OP.
Well put and I agree with all but your last sentence.

I write to engage with believers so I have to got on their page if I expect responses.

Most know I am a Gnostic Christian and that we Gnostic Christians and Christians are like water and oil.

There is no supernatural content to anything I believe while Christianity is based on it completely.

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DL
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  #33  
Old 12-08-2016, 09:32 PM
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Default Re: This is incontrovertible proof that God is evil. God does not live by his own gol

Quote:
Originally Posted by mickthinks View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen Maturin View Post
Anyone who adheres to the Golden Rule is self-centered and presumptuous.
That is perverse.
Only on the surface.

I answered our friend in a post above. Please have a look and opine.

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DL
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  #34  
Old 12-09-2016, 08:29 AM
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Default Re: This is incontrovertible proof that God is evil. God does not live by his own gol

'Good' and 'Evil' are just a chemical reaction inside the brain. Nothing to get all worked up about at any rate. Aha! :D

Wikipedia - Hard Problem of Consciousness
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  #35  
Old 12-09-2016, 12:15 PM
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Default Re: This is incontrovertible proof that God is evil. God does not live by his own gol

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gnostic Christian Bishop View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vivisectus View Post
The problem is not that the God of the Bible does not abide by his own rules. The problem is that it isn't a single document, but a compilation of documents that seem to have been written between 500 BCE to 500 ce, give or take a century or so.

You can hardly expect it to be consistent. People with vastly different agendas, social and historical backgrounds, and goals wrote it. And redacted it. And re-wrote the redaction, appending bits of older narratives to the new bits, because they wanted to borrow the authority of the older text, but now they wanted the outcome of the text to match their own goals, in a completely different society / political situation / historical setting etc.

What is surprising is that this has been common knowledge among anyone but the most amazingly uninformed for well over a century, and yet people still insist on using as a sort of operating manual for life and the world, a sort of face-value document you can just read and then draw straightforward conclusions from.

I think any thoughtful religious person would agree that you can read the Bible for inspiration, but that saying stuff like "God is/thinks/wants so and so because here there is a passage in the Bible that seems to agree" is foolhardy.

And frankly, I like that about the Bible: we all think we have read it, but it remains impossible to pin down definitively. If you are really honest, you can never use it as a authority over someone else: whatever opinion you want the Bible to justify, there is a good chance you will find it saying the exact opposite in some other part.

The Bible does not really allow for the kind of simplistic statements like "God is A because here it says B". Which is funny because it seems to be what a lot of people spend a lot of time doing with it, including the OP.
Well put and I agree with all but your last sentence.

I write to engage with believers so I have to got on their page if I expect responses.

Most know I am a Gnostic Christian and that we Gnostic Christians and Christians are like water and oil.

There is no supernatural content to anything I believe while Christianity is based on it completely.

Regards
DL
And yet you are doing exactly what you seem to agree the Bible just cannot be used for. That works both ways: you also cannot use it to condemn the religion it is a holy text for. All you can do is condemn specific interpretations. You most certainly cannot make statements like the title of your post. Well, you can obviously, and you did, but it is rather silly. Especially calling it "incontrovertible proof". It is no such thing.

Nor is your belief without supernatural content: Gnostics actually add supernatural beings: they just make up fancier names for them and keep the ones they like a bit more abstract.
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  #36  
Old 12-09-2016, 04:06 PM
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Default Re: This is incontrovertible proof that God is evil. God does not live by his own gol

Quote:
Originally Posted by Iacchus View Post
'Good' and 'Evil' are just a chemical reaction inside the brain. Nothing to get all worked up about at any rate. Aha! :D

Wikipedia - Hard Problem of Consciousness
Sure, all thought is chemically induced, but you ignore our basic instincts that seem to decide what chemical and emotional reaction we should respond with.

What drives these babies to seek to make friends instead of enemies, or in evolutionary terms, what drives the cooperation they seem to favor over competition?


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DL
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  #37  
Old 12-09-2016, 04:14 PM
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Default Re: This is incontrovertible proof that God is evil. God does not live by his own gol

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vivisectus View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gnostic Christian Bishop View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vivisectus View Post
The problem is not that the God of the Bible does not abide by his own rules. The problem is that it isn't a single document, but a compilation of documents that seem to have been written between 500 BCE to 500 ce, give or take a century or so.

You can hardly expect it to be consistent. People with vastly different agendas, social and historical backgrounds, and goals wrote it. And redacted it. And re-wrote the redaction, appending bits of older narratives to the new bits, because they wanted to borrow the authority of the older text, but now they wanted the outcome of the text to match their own goals, in a completely different society / political situation / historical setting etc.

What is surprising is that this has been common knowledge among anyone but the most amazingly uninformed for well over a century, and yet people still insist on using as a sort of operating manual for life and the world, a sort of face-value document you can just read and then draw straightforward conclusions from.

I think any thoughtful religious person would agree that you can read the Bible for inspiration, but that saying stuff like "God is/thinks/wants so and so because here there is a passage in the Bible that seems to agree" is foolhardy.

And frankly, I like that about the Bible: we all think we have read it, but it remains impossible to pin down definitively. If you are really honest, you can never use it as a authority over someone else: whatever opinion you want the Bible to justify, there is a good chance you will find it saying the exact opposite in some other part.

The Bible does not really allow for the kind of simplistic statements like "God is A because here it says B". Which is funny because it seems to be what a lot of people spend a lot of time doing with it, including the OP.
Well put and I agree with all but your last sentence.

I write to engage with believers so I have to got on their page if I expect responses.

Most know I am a Gnostic Christian and that we Gnostic Christians and Christians are like water and oil.

There is no supernatural content to anything I believe while Christianity is based on it completely.

Regards
DL
And yet you are doing exactly what you seem to agree the Bible just cannot be used for. That works both ways: you also cannot use it to condemn the religion it is a holy text for. All you can do is condemn specific interpretations. You most certainly cannot make statements like the title of your post. Well, you can obviously, and you did, but it is rather silly. Especially calling it "incontrovertible proof". It is no such thing.

Nor is your belief without supernatural content: Gnostics actually add supernatural beings: they just make up fancier names for them and keep the ones they like a bit more abstract.
Nothing is holy that has not been labelled so by humans. There is nothing holy. Only a God can name something holy.

You mistake Gnostic Christian beliefs with the myths we wrote to put against the Christian one before Christianity became idol worshipers.

I told you what I as a Gnostic Christian believe but if you want to ignore that and tell me what I believe, I do not think we will discuss much.

Regards
DL
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