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Old 03-29-2015, 04:22 PM
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Default Going Clear, or, In Your Face, Scientology

I'm so excited for the debut of Alex Gibney's documentary Going Clear exposing the so-called Church of Scientology which airs on HBO tonight. It's based on the book by the same name written by Lawrence Wright. Wright wrote the riveting New Yorker article about Paul Haggis' very public 2009 resignation from Scientology. That led to the book which has now led to the documentary.

The film got a standing ovation at Sundance and the buzz around it is huge. Tony Ortega, former reporter with the Village Voice who authored scoop after scoop about Scientology and who now runs his own site called The Underground Bunker which has become a beautiful cross between an encyclopedia about Scientology and a support group for those ensnared by it, has been writing a lot about the movie in the leadup to the premiere. He'll be liveblogging it tonight.
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Old 03-29-2015, 10:11 PM
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Default Re: Going Clear, or, In Your Face, Scientology

I haven't seen it yet, and I haven't read the book, but I still hate those motherfucking Scientologists, so just watching them squirm is glorious.
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Old 03-31-2015, 04:47 AM
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Default Re: Going Clear, or, In Your Face, Scientology

And....? I don't have HBO, how was it?
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Old 03-31-2015, 07:56 AM
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Default Re: Going Clear, or, In Your Face, Scientology

It was terrifying, brilliant, cringeworthy, fearless and heartbreaking in equal measure. Since I've been following Ortega's exposes for years, I knew most of the stories, but I seeing them laid out by the principals is a whole different kind of intensity. Also, this is the first time I've actually watched any atrocious Scientology videos like the one of Cruise and Miscavige sieg-heiling the giant picture of Elron, the FUCKED UP "war is won" party they threw after the IRS caved under pressure of Scilon lawsuits and granted them religious exemption and the music videos, dear Christ child in heaven the music videos.

Jason Beghe was a stand-out just because he's so balls-to-the-wall open and funny. Paul Haggis is far better spoken than the dialogue he writes would suggest. The stories of Spanky Taylor, John Travolta's former bff who had to escape to literally save her child's life, and Sara Goldberg, who was declared suppressive because she refused to disconnect from her son who was declared suppressive because he was friends with someone who was friends with Mark Rinder and as a consequence lost her daughter to Scientology's disconnection policy, were wrenching.

Last edited by livius drusus; 03-31-2015 at 08:47 AM.
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Old 03-31-2015, 08:23 AM
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Default Re: Going Clear, or, In Your Face, Scientology

I haven't seen it yet but I do wonder does it go into *why* people believe?
While sure people fall for scams all the time, I've been interested in why and how people don't just fall for such recent and documented scam but declare it their religion. I also wonder if the church is gaining any new members outside of families and friends of those already caught in their trap.

At least in the case of things like the bible the detailed history of both it's ManGod and those that wrote down his story are lost to the mists of time, but in the case of Scientology there are still people alive that remember shooting the shit with their hack writer about creating a fake religion and the amount of drugs consumed while doing it.
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  #6  
Old 03-31-2015, 08:46 AM
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Default Re: Going Clear, or, In Your Face, Scientology

It does go into the why of it, and very deftly at that. Because the eight people who are the focus of the movie are all former Scientologists, they explore the question of why they fell for it and stayed inside for years. It's both unflinching and compassionate. Paul Haggis wrote a piece for The Underground Bunker last week in the leadup to the debut of Going Clear that lays it out beautifully.

The Church is shrinking, no question about it. They keep buying real estate to build "Ideal Orgs" premised on the fiction that they need vast, state-of-the-art facilities to cope with the onslaught of new believers, but it's just a scam to extort even more money from the people they're already bleeing dry with fees for "coursework" and auditing and the forced purchase of whatever latest packaging of Elron's horseshit books. These new facilities, all of them huge and most of them historical properties brutalized into performing this disgusting function, are tumbleweed empty.
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Old 03-31-2015, 08:46 AM
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Default Re: Going Clear, or, In Your Face, Scientology

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ari View Post
I haven't seen it yet but I do wonder does it go into *why* people believe?
While sure people fall for scams all the time, I've been interested in why and how people don't just fall for such recent and documented scam but declare it their religion. I also wonder if the church is gaining any new members outside of families and friends of those already caught in their trap.

At least in the case of things like the bible the detailed history of both it's ManGod and those that wrote down his story are lost to the mists of time, but in the case of Scientology there are still people alive that remember shooting the shit with their hack writer about creating a fake religion and the amount of drugs consumed while doing it.
Back when I was doing a lot of reading I happened to read this about how Scientology started...It started one night when Robert Heinlein and L Ron Hubbard were having a drink in a bar. Heinlein bet L Ron a sum of money that he couldn't start a religion. Hubbard accepted the bet and the next day Scientology came into existence,

I don't remember where or when this was supposed to have happened, I also don't remember how much money was bet.
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Old 03-31-2015, 08:51 AM
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Default Re: Going Clear, or, In Your Face, Scientology

The bet story is apocryphal. Hubbard said repeatedly that the way to get rich was to start a religion, but a bet had nothing to do with anything.
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Old 03-31-2015, 09:25 AM
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I read some of your foolish scree, then just skimmed the rest.
 
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Default Re: Going Clear, or, In Your Face, Scientology

Quote:
Originally Posted by livius drusus View Post
Paul Haggis wrote a piece for The Underground Bunker last week in the leadup to the debut of Going Clear that lays it out beautifully.
Facinating, especially to read such similarity in reasoning/justification as people in other questionable organized religions.
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Old 03-31-2015, 02:19 PM
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Default Re: Going Clear, or, In Your Face, Scientology

Quote:
Originally Posted by livius drusus View Post
The bet story is apocryphal. Hubbard said repeatedly that the way to get rich was to start a religion, but a bet had nothing to do with anything.
Not without basis. The Si-Fi writers of the era knew each other from their association with "Amazing Stories" and various conventions they would jointly attend. Heinlein may be a liar, but he claimed to have made that bet with Hubbard in his autobiographical works.
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Old 03-31-2015, 02:25 PM
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Default Re: Going Clear, or, In Your Face, Scientology

Going Clear is available by torrent if you're looking for it and shifty like :ffshifty:
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Old 03-31-2015, 03:34 PM
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Default Re: Going Clear, or, In Your Face, Scientology

I watched a few minutes of it last night. I got to the part about Spanky's escape, and the whole thing was angryin' up the blood right before bedtime, so I DVR'd the rest for later. :oldman:
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Old 03-31-2015, 04:18 PM
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Default Re: Going Clear, or, In Your Face, Scientology

21 Insane Things Going Clear Left Out -- Vulture

I'm really hoping this is some kind of tipping point where people actually do some prison time, and it becomes common enough knowledge that they start getting drummed out of the professions they target. (In addition to the celebrities, they have a bunch of dentists and a foothold in a few other industries, IIRC.)
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Old 03-31-2015, 06:10 PM
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Default Re: Going Clear, or, In Your Face, Scientology

Quote:
Originally Posted by livius drusus View Post
The bet story is apocryphal. Hubbard said repeatedly that the way to get rich was to start a religion, but a bet had nothing to do with anything.
Supposedly L. Ron said it to a number of people back in the day:
http://www.bible.ca/scientology-1mil...a-religion.htm
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Old 04-05-2015, 11:44 AM
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Default Re: Going Clear, or, In Your Face, Scientology

One of the Scilon videos featured in Going Clear is this dystopian horror from 1990:


Last night SNL made their own version and it is fucking genius:

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Old 04-07-2015, 11:44 PM
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Default Re: Going Clear, or, In Your Face, Scientology

Comcast is giving me free HBO, or at least free on-demand HBO, this week. I am hoping this is included.
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Old 04-08-2015, 07:35 PM
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Default Re: Going Clear, or, In Your Face, Scientology

Oh, hey. I didn't know this:

Scientology and Elisabeth Moss: What the “Mad Men” star isn’t talking about in interviews - Salon.com

And ugh, that dumb softball question. I hate it when people try to cast their ignorance as open mindedness.
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Old 04-08-2015, 08:40 PM
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Default Re: Going Clear, or, In Your Face, Scientology

I keep hearing people mentioning that she's a Scientologist in comments on AV Club, but I never investigated.
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Old 04-14-2015, 03:29 PM
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Default Re: Going Clear, or, In Your Face, Scientology

Tony Ortega has done another great public service by elencating precisely what you can do to get the IRS to re-examine Scientology's tax exemption. Not surprisingly, signing a Change.org petition ain't it. He's got all the details: a link to the IRS complaint form, the name, addresses and id numbers of Scientology entities, examples of violations, everything you need.

If you want the IRS to re-examine Scientology’s tax exempt status, it's time to get real.
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Old 04-21-2015, 09:28 PM
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Default Re: Going Clear, or, In Your Face, Scientology

Blame Yb ...

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Old 06-25-2015, 07:47 PM
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Default Re: Going Clear, or, In Your Face, Scientology

An excellent story written by the ex-wife of Jason Lee, (known for My Name is Earl).
Why I Left Scientology
It's vapid faux connections that allow you to justify being a complete douche with anyone who isn't part of the cult is perfect for Hollywood.
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Old 10-11-2015, 08:04 AM
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Default Re: Going Clear, or, In Your Face, Scientology

More actors to hate for being douche Scientologist, Jim Carry, who is a bonus Anti-Vaccer too! I bring this up as his soon to be ex girlfriend committed suicide after a long breakup which most likely had to do with being forced into Scientology. I bring this up in part because she committed suicide using pharmaceuticals prescribed to Carry under a fake name by Scientology doctors. Adding to the expected hypocricy of pharm hating Scientology bending the rules for famous members.
I hope he is charged with something.
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Old 10-11-2015, 01:07 PM
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Default Re: Going Clear, or, In Your Face, Scientology

I've never liked Carrey much and it wouldn't take a lot to make me think badly of him, but I don't trust this version of that sad story.

There's evidence that Cathriona White was a scientologist before she met Carrey, maybe even before she tipped up in LA. Whereas I have found next to no evidence that Carrey is a Hubbardista. There is some suggestion that he is into Eckhart Tolle.
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Old 10-11-2015, 01:34 PM
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Default Re: Going Clear, or, In Your Face, Scientology

:sadcheer: mick ... less critical thinking, more groupthink plz
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Old 11-08-2015, 08:06 AM
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Default Re: Going Clear, or, In Your Face, Scientology

A CLEAR huh, anybody can reach a clear within minutes, all you have to do is be aware of everything. Be really aware of life, and thus the bullshit of our societies.

Are you in control over your brain or not? And who is you?...............the extra brain in your bum !!

The really most interesting, but you do not hide from criticism, or you are worthless :Clear: a Clear, in an absolute sense, would be someone who could confront anything and everything in the past, present and future. A Clear is not an all-knowing being but is a being who no longer has his own reactive mind. A Clear has no engrams which can be restimulated into irrational computations or psychosomatics. Reaching the state of Clear is a milestone in Scientology Auditing and is a very desirable state to achieve.

Secretly taped Scientology briefing, Spring 2015, Part 1 - YouTube
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