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  #876  
Old 03-15-2016, 08:57 PM
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Default Re: Fucking education! How does it work?

It occurs to me that Peacegirl could be a poster child for the failure of today's American education system. How many of you are familiar with the ideas she claims to believe?
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  #877  
Old 03-15-2016, 08:59 PM
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Default Re: Fucking education! How does it work?

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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Lone Ranger View Post
Sometimes, it really does seem like you can't win.
I misread that as "can win" and read the entire post looking forward to the happy ending. Boy was I disappointed. :sadcheer:
Let me give you some good news about today's educational system, I quit teaching after 7 years, I was a bit of a slow learner.
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  #878  
Old 03-30-2016, 03:17 PM
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Default Re: Fucking education! How does it work?

It is often frustrating to deal with students who have been taught to expect that they deserve an "A" just for showing up to class occasionally. It's frustrating to deal with students who don't do the readings, who don't do the assignments, don't even pretend to pay attention during class when they do bother to show up -- and then complain when they don't get good grades.

Goodness knows, I understand that all too well.

But there are limits, for goodness' sake!


Yesterday, one of my students happened to walk past my door, looking rather obviously distressed. So I asked him what was wrong.

He explained that the instructor for the class he'd just left had asked him a question in class, and he'd gotten it wrong. Okay, that happens. All too often, in fact.

Her response was to pull out a dunce cap, place it upon his head, and tell him that he had to wear it for the rest of the class. [Seriously, who has on of these or goes to the trouble of making one?]


I know the instructor, of course, and we've often spoken of how frustrating it is to deal with unmotivated and unprepared students. Years of doing so has left her bitter, to say the least.

But is public humiliation the proper response? It doesn't seem so to me.

I haven't spoken with the instructor about the incident as of yet, so maybe I'm getting a somewhat ... one-sided ... version of what happened. Even so, I'm finding it hard to imagine where such a response to a student's failure to correctly answer a question would be appropriate.

Heck, I know this kid; I've had him in two of my classes. He's not the best student I've ever had, but he's always been respectful and a decent student. I've never known him to be disruptive or anything. So I can't really see how public humiliation is an appropriate response to his failure to correctly answer a question.
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  #879  
Old 03-30-2016, 03:45 PM
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Default Re: Fucking education! How does it work?

I've seen all kinds of teachers, and all kinds of students, and I think it was a combination of students who didn't want to be there and teachers who thought they were the absolute authority, that strongly influenced my decision to leave teaching. While I was teaching I was sharing study hall duties with another teacher who had been teaching longer than I had, so she was reading the roll at the first period of the study hall. Reading the roll she came to the name of a student that was a shortened version of another name, lets say "Beth" but the other teacher insisted that "Beth" was short for "Elizabeth" and she would go by "Elizabeth". The student tried to correct her stating that "Beth" was her given name and not "Elizabeth" but the other teacher would not back down and insisted on calling her "Elizabeth". There wasn't much that I could do, being the junior teacher in the situation, but I later tried to apologize when the other teacher wasn't there.
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  #880  
Old 03-31-2016, 02:37 AM
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Default Re: Fucking education! How does it work?

Shut Up About Harvard | FiveThirtyEight
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  #881  
Old 03-31-2016, 03:23 AM
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Default Re: Fucking education! How does it work?

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Lone Ranger View Post
Yesterday, one of my students happened to walk past my door, looking rather obviously distressed. So I asked him what was wrong.

He explained that the instructor for the class he'd just left had asked him a question in class, and he'd gotten it wrong. Okay, that happens. All too often, in fact.

Her response was to pull out a dunce cap, place it upon his head, and tell him that he had to wear it for the rest of the class.
A little history might take the sting out of some of that cruel humiliation. The original dunce cap is named after its most illustrious wearer, the Franciscan theologian, mathematician, philosopher and University of Paris professor John Duns Scotus. For hundreds of years he was considered the epitome of the intellectual, a man so respected for the nuance and intricacy of his arguments that he was monickered Doctor Subtilis (Subtle Doctor). He wore a conical hat because to him it symbolized the acquisition of knowledge, the point representing knowledge and the widening cone driving it down into the brain.

The Scholastic approach went out of fashion with the rise of Renaissance humanism and his followers, known as Dunces, were derided as dense hair-splitters. Eventually, John Duns Scotus was forgotten and the dunce lost his connection to the theologian and became just a simple idiot. They kept the hat, though.
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  #882  
Old 03-31-2016, 03:34 AM
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Default Re: Fucking education! How does it work?

:1thumbup:
Shit like this is why I keep coming back to :ff:
Well that the the Nazis.
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  #883  
Old 03-31-2016, 04:10 AM
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College isn't what the media presents it as. I applied to 3 colleges and was accepted at all 3 in spite of poor grades, but because of very high SAT scores. My daughters attended wherever they wanted if the cost could be met. On graduation we all had our choice of jobs, and my degree got me several more after I quit teaching. The degrees are there for those who want them, and the jobs as well, the trick is to pick the right major and the jobs follow.
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  #884  
Old 03-31-2016, 05:46 AM
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Reading Re: Fucking education! How does it work?

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Originally Posted by livius drusus View Post
For hundreds of years he was considered the epitome of the intellectual, a man so respected for the nuance and intricacy of his arguments that he was monickered Doctor Subtilis (Subtle Doctor).
wei yau and I would fight for the right to make this hero/villain if this was a few years ago.

:wish:
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  #885  
Old 04-01-2016, 01:48 AM
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Default Re: Fucking education! How does it work?

You wouldn't have to fight. One of you could take Roger Bacon's title, Doctor Mirabilis (Wondrous Doctor). They even lived about the same time, the second half of the 13th century.
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  #886  
Old 03-20-2017, 10:12 PM
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Default Re: Fucking education! How does it work?

Bumping this excellent thread because this: Every attempt to manage academia makes it worse | Sauropod Vertebra Picture of the Week

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  #887  
Old 03-24-2017, 04:10 AM
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Default Re: Fucking education! How does it work?

Those academic perverts.
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  #888  
Old 03-28-2017, 11:17 PM
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Default Re: Fucking education! How does it work?

A co-worker who was a Harvard grad explained Havud to me. You don't go to Harvard to get an undergraduate education. You go to make contacts for your later career. You go to become a Harvard man. The undergraduate education you get will be no better than at any other good college. Yes, you will have access to a first class library.

But you'll have Professor Famous for Great Dane Literature? You will see Professor Famous maybe twice: once at the beginning of the class when he will explain the object of the class and introduces the scornful underpaid grad student who will be doing the actual teaching, and once when he has 'written' a book and has come in to flog it. You will be expected to buy it.

This does not apply to Harvard graduate schools. My informant had not attended one of those.

BH
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  #889  
Old 03-28-2017, 11:33 PM
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Default Re: Fucking education! How does it work?

I remember when my ex was doing accounting at SFSU, many teachers wrote their own 'books' but there was one guy who was clearly there just to game the system, he not only wrote the required book which was something above $100 for something that looked like it was photocopied and gluestick bound, but he would change the book around every year so that students couldn't resell them but always had to buy new.
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  #890  
Old 04-03-2017, 12:11 AM
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Default Re: Fucking education! How does it work?

I've often wondered at how our college-age students seem less and less capable every year. The textbooks we use in our introductory- and intermediate-level courses are typically written on a 7th- or 8th-grade reading level, and yet, no amount of polite suggestions, desperate pleading, or outright threats seem to be sufficient to convince students to actually read them.

I've had students -- college students, remember -- flat out say "I can't read this" when I tell them that they can't expect to pass the course if they don't do the reading assignments.


Well, perhaps I shouldn't be so surprised. Yesterday [Saturday], I attended a CPR training class, to renew my certification, along with several of my colleagues. As we were beginning, the instructor said, "I'm so glad I'm teaching this to a bunch of college professors today." "Why?" we asked.

"Because," she replied, "I usually teach this to high school students." "And why is that so stressful?" we asked. "Because when we get to the written exam at the end of the course, I can't just hand it to them and expect them to read and answer the questions on their own. All too often, I have to read it for them."


*Sigh*

I have yet to speak to a single high school-level teacher or counselor who thinks that No Child Left Behind was a good or effective idea.
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  #891  
Old 04-03-2017, 12:35 AM
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Default Re: Fucking education! How does it work?

Wouldn't be so bad if we changed English spelling to be intuitive...

Wüdənt bi so bäd ıf wi cheınjd Ingglish speling tu bi ıntuıtıv...
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Old 04-03-2017, 01:01 AM
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Default Re: Fucking education! How does it work?

I'm pretty sure that a lot of it is the new social media driven hot take economy too. People feel a need to weigh in on pretty much everything they see, so they share articles based on the headlines, add the first fool thing that comes to their mind, and move on to the next thing that catches their eye.

Why Doesn't America Read Anymore? : NPR
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  #893  
Old 04-03-2017, 01:10 AM
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Wouldn't be so bad if we changed English spelling to be intuitive...

Wüdənt bi so bäd ıf wi cheınjd Ingglish speling tu bi ıntuıtıv...
Hukt on fonix werkt for me!
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  #894  
Old 04-03-2017, 02:25 AM
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Wouldn't be so bad if we changed English spelling to be intuitive...

Wüdənt bi so bäd ıf wi cheınjd Ingglish speling tu bi ıntuıtıv/ıntyuıtıv...
Hukt on fonix werkt for me!
You laugh, like "hukt" doesn't make more sense than "hooked" despite having only one syllable. I suppose "hookt" would also be sensible, given that we don't have a special character for that vowel.

A fundamental problem with any spelling reform is that the English alphabet has 5 pure vowel characters, but English has 8-13 pure vowels (depending on the dialect*) and at least a few diphthongs and triphthongs. So you either have to make a bunch of digraphs or add a bunch of diacritics. Diacritics have the advantage of making it look more similar to the original spelling for many vowels, while digraphs require no changes to keyboards and the like. Digraph-based spelling reforms often come out looking kinda like Dutch :yuck: though:

See: Weudent bee soe bad if wee chainjd Eenglish speling too bee intooitiv/intiuitiv...

*The traditional view would include beet, bit, bet, bat, bot, but, bought, put, boot, balm and perhaps you could include Burt (even in its r-colored variants), which would bring it to 11 pure vowels to be distinguished with only 5 letters. But then you also have the diphthongs of bait, boat, bite, bout and boy as well.

For whatever reason, b-t gives a minimal pair for almost every monophthong and diphthong in English.
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  #895  
Old 04-03-2017, 09:29 AM
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I'm pretty sure that a lot of it is the new social media driven hot take economy too. People feel a need to weigh in on pretty much everything they see, so they share articles based on the headlines, add the first fool thing that comes to their mind, and move on to the next thing that catches their eye.

Why Doesn't America Read Anymore? : NPR
:tealdeer: :innocent2:
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Old 04-03-2017, 09:34 AM
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*The traditional view would include beet, bit, bet, bat, bot, but, bought, put, boot, balm and perhaps you could include Burt (even in its r-colored variants), which would bring it to 11 pure vowels to be distinguished with only 5 letters. But then you also have the diphthongs of bait, boat, bite, bout and boy as well.

For whatever reason, b-t gives a minimal pair for almost every monophthong and diphthong in English.
balm :rarrow: Bart

And at a stretch, the South African English borrowing from Afrikaans boet rhymes with put.
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Old 04-03-2017, 03:58 PM
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Bart only works in non-rhotic accents. But I did almost write it.
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Old 04-03-2017, 05:34 PM
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non-rhotic accents
:english:

Aside:
So y'all don't pronounce the l in balm? (and you shouldn't) ... whereas most Americans seem to go to great lengths to pronounce the l in calm.
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Old 04-03-2017, 05:45 PM
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Some people do, some people don't. That goes for all the "-alm" words (alms, balm, calm, palm, qualm, psalm... and any I missed).

Come to think of it, I probably lightly pronounce the /l/ myself.

If you dildn't want people to pronounce it, you stulpid Brits probably shoud've stolped wrilting it.

Last edited by erimir; 04-03-2017 at 05:57 PM.
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Old 04-03-2017, 06:22 PM
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Some people do, some people don't. That goes for all the "-alm" words (alms, balm, calm, palm, qualm, psalm... and any I missed).
To be fair, it's not that "some people" don't WANT to pronounce the L sounds in those words. It's that they can't because of their serrated tongues.
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