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11-09-2012, 12:38 AM
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liar in wolf's clothing
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Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Frequently about
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Re: Voter fraud vs. voter *registration* fraud
Ask a Canadian lawyer.
Because - fun fact here - Perky 'Canada' Has Own Government, Laws. The Constitution of the United States of America, for example, is not the law in Canada.
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11-09-2012, 12:58 AM
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Solitary, poor, nasty, brutish, and short
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Re: Voter fraud vs. voter *registration* fraud
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerome
Quote:
Originally Posted by lisarea
What were they doing when they were removed?
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They showed up to watch the polls and were immediately removed upon arrival in violation of a court order.
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What was their purpose in watching those specific polling places?
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To watch for cheating in places known for cheating.
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What cheating?
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How do you estimate the risk of voter fraud (that is, people voting illegally) vs. voter suppression (that is, legitimate voters being prevented from voting)?
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My biggest concern is touch-screen voting. Here in Maryland there is no way to check the accuracy of an outcome, recounts are literally impossible.
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That's a big concern. At least equal to that is the concern that people who are qualified to vote are being prevented from doing so.
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11-09-2012, 01:01 AM
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Dr. Jerome Corsi-Soetoro, Ph.D., Esq.
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Join Date: May 2009
Location: The Land of Pleasant Living
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Re: Voter fraud vs. voter *registration* fraud
Quote:
Originally Posted by lisarea
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Exactly, if the court ordered poll watchers are removed then there can be no investigation or prosecution of in-person voter fraud.
__________________
What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. ... The origin of myths is explained in this way.
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11-09-2012, 01:02 AM
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Fishy mokey
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Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Furrin parts
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Re: Voter fraud vs. voter *registration* fraud
Voting machines are not very reliable. I think they're usually bad news. They got rid of them here when some students proved they could hack them by hacking them.
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11-09-2012, 01:04 AM
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Dr. Jerome Corsi-Soetoro, Ph.D., Esq.
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Join Date: May 2009
Location: The Land of Pleasant Living
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Re: Voter fraud vs. voter *registration* fraud
Quote:
Originally Posted by lisarea
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerome
My biggest concern is touch-screen voting. Here in Maryland there is no way to check the accuracy of an outcome, recounts are literally impossible.
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That's a big concern. At least equal to that is the concern that people who are qualified to vote are being prevented from doing so.
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I would disagree, with no chance to recount a massive fraud, it will never be detected. In-person fraud at this point is minimal (this includes vote suppression).
__________________
What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. ... The origin of myths is explained in this way.
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11-09-2012, 01:15 AM
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Solitary, poor, nasty, brutish, and short
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Re: Voter fraud vs. voter *registration* fraud
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerome
Quote:
Originally Posted by lisarea
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerome
My biggest concern is touch-screen voting. Here in Maryland there is no way to check the accuracy of an outcome, recounts are literally impossible.
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That's a big concern. At least equal to that is the concern that people who are qualified to vote are being prevented from doing so.
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I would disagree, with no chance to recount a massive fraud, it will never be detected. In-person fraud at this point is minimal (this includes vote suppression).
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No, it doesn't. Voter suppression is huge, and that's what many of the Republican and tea party poll watchers were there to do--to intimidate and challenge legitimate voters, thus preventing them from voting. Photo ID laws are intended to prevent people from voting as well.
The multi-hour lines, mostly in Democratic leaning precincts, were a kind of big story, too, in case you missed that. When you have eight hour lines to vote, a lot of people are going to leave because they have families and jobs and other responsibilities.
Intentional, coordinated voter suppression has been happening on a large scale. In person voter fraud has not.
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11-09-2012, 01:32 AM
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Clutchenheimer
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Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Canada
Gender: Male
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Re: Voter fraud vs. voter *registration* fraud
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerome
Hey lawyer, what does taking a legal oath denote?
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In Canada, it's generally understood to mean that within 30 days, all sworn affidational information becomes foundational in reference for the legal pursuits of others in regard to the subject matter.
__________________
Your very presence is making me itchy.
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Thanks, from:
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ChuckF (11-09-2012), erimir (11-09-2012), Janet (11-09-2012), lisarea (11-09-2012), livius drusus (11-09-2012), Nullifidian (11-09-2012), Pan Narrans (11-09-2012), SR71 (11-09-2012), Stephen Maturin (11-09-2012), The Man (11-09-2012), Watser? (11-09-2012)
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11-09-2012, 03:56 AM
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Dr. Jerome Corsi-Soetoro, Ph.D., Esq.
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Join Date: May 2009
Location: The Land of Pleasant Living
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Re: Voter fraud vs. voter *registration* fraud
Quote:
Originally Posted by lisarea
. Voter suppression is huge, and that's what many of the Republican and tea party poll watchers were there to do--to intimidate and challenge legitimate voters, thus preventing them from voting.
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Have you ever talked to anyone about their free government phones?
They are used as currency.
I can't see who is going to intimidate *them* from voting.
__________________
What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. ... The origin of myths is explained in this way.
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11-09-2012, 04:01 AM
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Dr. Jerome Corsi-Soetoro, Ph.D., Esq.
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Join Date: May 2009
Location: The Land of Pleasant Living
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Re: Voter fraud vs. voter *registration* fraud
Quote:
Originally Posted by lisarea
The multi-hour lines, mostly in Democratic leaning precincts, were a kind of big story, too, in case you missed that.
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No, I voted in those lines, the democrats have been in control of this state for decades.
So, you think the democrat entrenched government conspired to hold down the vote of a vast majority of democrat voters.
What would the motive be perchance?
__________________
What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. ... The origin of myths is explained in this way.
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11-09-2012, 12:30 PM
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liar in wolf's clothing
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Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Frequently about
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Re: Voter fraud vs. voter *registration* fraud
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerome
Have you ever talked to anyone about their free government phones?
They are used as currency.
I can't see who is going to intimidate *them* from voting.
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Fun to try to untangle the pronouns here.
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11-09-2012, 02:06 PM
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Stoic Derelict... The cup is empty
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Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: The Dustbin of History
Gender: Male
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Re: Voter fraud vs. voter *registration* fraud
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerome
Quote:
Originally Posted by lisarea
. Voter suppression is huge, and that's what many of the Republican and tea party poll watchers were there to do--to intimidate and challenge legitimate voters, thus preventing them from voting.
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Have you ever talked to anyone about their free government phones?
They are used as currency.
I can't see who is going to intimidate *them* from voting.
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Phones? No. Mule.
__________________
Chained out, like a sitting duck just waiting for the fall _Cage the Elephant
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11-09-2012, 02:06 PM
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Fishy mokey
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Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Furrin parts
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Re: Voter fraud vs. voter *registration* fraud
Quote:
On Election Day, Leo Kim, 34, drove a group of elderly Korean Americans to the polls in Annandale, Va., a Washington suburb. They quickly found themselves in a scene out of the Jim Crow era.
After presenting proper identification, authorities demanded that the seniors say their names and home addresses out loud in English -- a tough proposition for some with limited English skills. The poll workers had made similar demands on the other voters.
The Korean American seniors "felt bullied," explained Glenn Magpantay, Democracy Program Director with The Asian American Legal Defense and Education Fund. He said multiple voters complained about similar treatment to his office. "They all had their IDs. They thought that would help."
When poll workers grew frustrated that the seniors didn't understand the instructions, they ordered all the Korean Americans waiting to vote to form a new line. "Korean people stand in a separate line," Leo recalled the poll worker calling out to everyone. Leo's group complied.
"Then they started taking the white voters," Magpantay said. "The Koreans had to wait."
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Election Problems Included Confusion, Intimidation, Untrained Poll Workers
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Thanks, from:
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Crumb (11-09-2012), Janet (11-09-2012), Kael (11-09-2012), LadyShea (11-09-2012), livius drusus (11-09-2012), Nullifidian (11-09-2012), Pan Narrans (11-09-2012), Sock Puppet (11-12-2012), SR71 (11-09-2012), The Man (11-10-2012), Ymir's blood (11-09-2012)
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11-09-2012, 02:18 PM
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Bow down before me ... or not.
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Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Nebraska
Gender: Male
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Re: Voter fraud vs. voter *registration* fraud
Redrawing the lines is much easier.
Gerrymandering
When Obama picked up an electoral vote, they changed District 2 boundaries to dilute the votes.
Then incumbant Lee Terry won by a narrow margin in the newly redrawn District 2. He would have probably lost the old District 2 seat in this election.
__________________
Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for the night. Light a man on fire and he'll be warm the rest of his life.
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11-09-2012, 02:27 PM
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Dr. Jerome Corsi-Soetoro, Ph.D., Esq.
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Join Date: May 2009
Location: The Land of Pleasant Living
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Re: Voter fraud vs. voter *registration* fraud
Quote:
Originally Posted by ImGod
Redrawing the lines is much easier.
Gerrymandering
When Obama picked up an electoral vote, they changed District 2 boundaries to dilute the votes.
Then incumbant Lee Terry won by a narrow margin in the newly redrawn District 2. He would have probably lost the old District 2 seat in this election.
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lol, check this out, btw O'Malley will be the democratic nominee in 2016.
__________________
What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. ... The origin of myths is explained in this way.
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11-09-2012, 02:28 PM
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Dr. Jerome Corsi-Soetoro, Ph.D., Esq.
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Join Date: May 2009
Location: The Land of Pleasant Living
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Re: Voter fraud vs. voter *registration* fraud
Quote:
Originally Posted by Watser?
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Annandale, Va. (northern VA) is a democratic stronghold.
__________________
What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. ... The origin of myths is explained in this way.
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11-09-2012, 02:40 PM
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Fishy mokey
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Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Furrin parts
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Re: Voter fraud vs. voter *registration* fraud
Is there something you are trying to tell me?
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11-09-2012, 02:42 PM
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Bow down before me ... or not.
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Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Nebraska
Gender: Male
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Re: Voter fraud vs. voter *registration* fraud
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerome
Quote:
Originally Posted by ImGod
Redrawing the lines is much easier.
Gerrymandering
When Obama picked up an electoral vote, they changed District 2 boundaries to dilute the votes.
Then incumbant Lee Terry won by a narrow margin in the newly redrawn District 2. He would have probably lost the old District 2 seat in this election.
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lol, check this out, btw O'Malley will be the democratic nominee in 2016.
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Who's Martin O'Malley? I didn't see him on the ballot in Nebraska.
__________________
Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for the night. Light a man on fire and he'll be warm the rest of his life.
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11-09-2012, 06:21 PM
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Projecting my phallogos with long, hard diction
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Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Dee Cee
Gender: Male
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Re: Voter fraud vs. voter *registration* fraud
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerome
lol, check this out, btw O'Malley will be the democratic nominee in 2016.
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Yes, both sides do it. That doesn't change the fact that the Republicans lost the popular House vote and maintained a healthy majority only because of gerrymandering (they might not have lost their majority just because of incumbency advantage, but they should have lost more seats).
It's also done to create race-based districts so that there will be minorities in Congress for sure.
Personally, I'd prefer proportional representation (for the House, it could be done at the state level) which would get around both of those problems. Or the use of a simple algorithm/mathematical criteria for the creation of districts.
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11-09-2012, 06:35 PM
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Bow down before me ... or not.
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Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Nebraska
Gender: Male
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Re: Voter fraud vs. voter *registration* fraud
Quote:
Originally Posted by erimir
Personally, I'd prefer proportional representation (for the House, it could be done at the state level) which would get around both of those problems. Or the use of a simple algorithm/mathematical criteria for the creation of districts.
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Proportional representation would take care of it, but you'd have the party picking the candidates/representatives and not the people unless you put them all on the ballot and have the top vote getters in each party move on in proportion.
No big deal in states like mine with 3 representatives, but it could get messy in bigger states.
__________________
Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for the night. Light a man on fire and he'll be warm the rest of his life.
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11-09-2012, 08:22 PM
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Dr. Jerome Corsi-Soetoro, Ph.D., Esq.
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Join Date: May 2009
Location: The Land of Pleasant Living
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Re: Voter fraud vs. voter *registration* fraud
Quote:
Originally Posted by erimir
That doesn't change the fact that the Republicans lost the popular House vote ...
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You don't seem to understand how proportional representation works.
If a Maryland district with a population of 100 has a seat which is super secure there may only be 40 votes total with the incumbent winning 36-4. Then you have an Ohio district with 100 voters and has a contested seat with the vote going 49-51. Here you have a discrepancy of 85 dem votes vs 54 gop votes and each party winning one seat each.
__________________
What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. ... The origin of myths is explained in this way.
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11-09-2012, 09:52 PM
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Fishy mokey
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Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Furrin parts
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Re: Voter fraud vs. voter *registration* fraud
Quote:
It doesn't look like there will be a final count in California's 7th congressional district any time soon. Dr. Ami Bera has a tiny lead over Rep. Dan Lungren. The last count released Wednesday had Bera leading with 184 votes, with 193,000 ballots yet to be counted. The next ballot release will be Friday afternoon.
This, like the Patrick Murphy/Allen West race, is likely to get ugly because, like West, Lungren has a history of playing very dirty, including hiring a consultant, Monica Harris, who has a serious criminal record that included embezzlement, theft and prison time. And voter registration fraud, in this election, which Lungren defended.
Lungren said he supported the voter drive and understood that there were sufficient safeguards in place to prevent fraud. "The overall registration effort made by the party was very successful. I am unaware of any single registration that was paid for by that program that had any problems," he said last week, adding that it's possible that the voters filling out the forms made mistakes.
The Sacramento elections board certainly saw problems with this voter registration drive, finding that "at least one-fourth of the 31,000 registration cards submitted by Harris and her circulators since September have been rejected for inaccuracies." And even worse, it "found numerous examples of people of having their political party affiliation switched to Republican against their wishes."
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Daily Kos: Ami Bera/Dan Lungren race could drag on for weeks
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11-09-2012, 10:39 PM
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Flyover Hillbilly
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Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Juggalonia
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Re: Voter fraud vs. voter *registration* fraud
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clutch Munny
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerome
Hey lawyer, what does taking a legal oath denote?
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In Canada, it's generally understood to mean that within 30 days, all sworn affidational information becomes foundational in reference for the legal pursuits of others in regard to the subject matter.
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See there, Chuck? The law is exactly the same in Canada as it is here.
__________________
"We can have democracy in this country, or we can have great wealth concentrated in the hands of a few, but we can't have both." ~ Louis D. Brandeis
"Psychos do not explode when sunlight hits them, I don't give a fuck how crazy they are." ~ S. Gecko
"What the fuck is a German muffin?" ~ R. Swanson
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11-09-2012, 10:44 PM
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Dr. Jerome Corsi-Soetoro, Ph.D., Esq.
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Join Date: May 2009
Location: The Land of Pleasant Living
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Re: Voter fraud vs. voter *registration* fraud
You guys missed the point that requiring proof of identity is not a nefarious plot to prevent liberals from voting.
__________________
What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. ... The origin of myths is explained in this way.
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11-10-2012, 12:40 AM
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Fishy mokey
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Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Furrin parts
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Re: Voter fraud vs. voter *registration* fraud
Yes,
Yes, it is.
Or to be more precise: it is a plot to keep the poor from voting. From voting in their interests more specifically. Of course they could do better than the Democratic Party, but considering the alternative is the Republican Party, well...
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11-10-2012, 12:53 AM
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Dr. Jerome Corsi-Soetoro, Ph.D., Esq.
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Join Date: May 2009
Location: The Land of Pleasant Living
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Re: Voter fraud vs. voter *registration* fraud
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerome
You guys missed the point that requiring proof of identity is not a nefarious plot to prevent liberals from voting.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Watser?
Yes,
Yes, it is.
Or to be more precise: it is a plot to keep the poor from voting.
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You are stating that the rich in Canada plot to deny the vote to the poor.
__________________
What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. ... The origin of myths is explained in this way.
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