Voter fraud vs. voter *registration* fraud

[Angakuk]

National Identity Card.

That is the only viable and fair solution.

[chunksmediocrites]

Public Policy Polling did a post-election national poll. The results:

49% of GOP voters nationally say they think that ACORN stole the election for President Obama. We found that 52% of Republicans thought that ACORN stole the 2008 election for Obama, so this is a modest decline, but perhaps smaller than might have been expected given that ACORN doesn't exist anymore.

Some GOP voters are so unhappy with the outcome that they no longer care to be a part of the United States. 25% of Republicans say they would like their state to secede from the union compared to 56% who want to stay and 19% who aren't sure.

One reason that such a high percentage of Republicans are holding what could be seen as extreme views is that their numbers are declining. Our final poll before the election, which hit the final outcome almost on the head, found 39% of voters identifying themselves as Democrats and 37% as Republicans. Since the election we've seen a 5 point increase in Democratic identification to 44%, and a 5 point decrease in Republican identification to 32%.

Holy shit.

I did not know ACORN wielded such power. Sinister power! Or alternately, I underestimated the depth of willful ignorance/ conspiracy theory on the part of the radical Right.

[ChuckF]

25% of Republicans say they would like their state to secede from the union compared to 56% who want to stay and 19% who aren't sure.

That 19% number is the most fascinating thing in that article. The 25% who want their state to secede can be attributed to the baseline morons, but the 19%...what is that about. They're not sure whether they would like for their state to secede from the union? Maybe they're ambivalent because who knows how that might turn out, right? It's anybody's guess, really. I'll just have to think about it more before I can decide.

[chunksmediocrites]

The part I really liked was where the poll asked participants if they had an opinion about Bowles-Simpon, and then asked them if they had an opinion about Panetta-Burns:

-As much of an obsession as Bowles/Simpson can be for the DC pundit class, most Americans don't have an opinion about it. 23% support it, 16% oppose it, and 60% say they don't have a take one way or the other.

The 39% of Americans with an opinion about Bowles/Simpson is only slightly higher than the 25% with one about Panetta/Burns, a mythical Clinton Chief of Staff/former western Republican Senator combo we conceived of to test how many people would say they had an opinion even about something that doesn't exist.

[LadyShea]

Originally Posted by ChuckF

That 19% number is the most fascinating thing in that article. The 25% who want their state to secede can be attributed to the baseline morons, but the 19%...what is that about. They're not sure whether they would like for their state to secede from the union? Maybe they're ambivalent because who knows how that might turn out, right? It's anybody's guess, really. I'll just have to think about it more before I can decide.

That 19% has no idea what secession even is or what it would mean to them. Like chunk's example, they don't want to admit "hey, I don't really know what that is" they instead act like they are intellectual "Hmm, I really need to study the arguments and stuff before forming an opinions because I am not an idiot, I totally read"

[Stormlight]

I have polled myself tonight and decided that I will likely secede from the union. Yes, most likely.

[mickthinks]

Originally Posted by LadyShea

... they don't want to admit "hey, I don't really know what that is" they instead act like they are intellectual "Hmm, I really need to study the arguments and stuff before forming an opinions because I am not an idiot, I totally read"

You believe a lot of people were lying (in order to save face, lol), LS? Maybe there were only 3 poll options available and it's the pollsters who have put such mockable words into the mouths of the don't-knows.

[The Man]

Originally Posted by Stormlight

I have polled myself tonight and decided that I will likely secede from the union. Yes, most likely.

They better be careful. They'll lose 25% of their population if you secede.

[Nullifidian]

Originally Posted by Stormlight

I have polled myself tonight and decided that I will likely secede from the union. Yes, most likely.

:boartear:

[godfry n. glad]

Originally Posted by LadyShea

That 19% has no idea what secession even is or what it would mean to them. Like chunk's example, they don't want to admit "hey, I don't really know what that is" they instead act like they are intellectual "Hmm, I really need to study the arguments and stuff before forming an opinions because I am not an idiot, I totally read"

Yup. I concur.

I'm fascinated with the 25% who say they want their state to secede. I'll bet they are all a bunch of flag-waving super-patriots who HATE AMERICA. That's right...they are ANTI-AMERICANS. By definition. They hate us for our rights and our freedoms.

[Sauron]

Originally Posted by Stormlight

I have polled myself tonight and decided that I will likely secede from the union. Yes, most likely.

WHAT?

After your ancestors fought so hard to unify the warring tribes into a single people, a mighty nation?
Fending off invasions from larger countries (and the occasional troop of Boy Scouts)?
Pulling together as a country to survive natural disasters (such as the Great Pigeon Flyover of '38 that darkened the entire sky)?
Surviving national economic downturns (like when that one lady couldn't find her coin purse and national spending came to a halt)?

What would the father of your proud country think of your betrayal?



The First Kaijzer, Rudölphus Wilhjælmus Heijnrijch von Bajköensburg
aka the Luxemboar

Die Künglijches Rijksmusëeumet

[Ymir's blood]

Cut through the red tapir of the boaracracy! You're living in a pigtatorship!

[chunksmediocrites]

Originally Posted by mickthinks

You believe a lot of people were lying (in order to save face, lol), LS? Maybe there were only 3 poll options available and it's the pollsters who have put such mockable words into the mouths of the don't-knows.

The .pdf of the poll questions and data are available at the link in my earlier post. From the .pdf:

Q6 Do you support or oppose the Bowles-Simpson plan?
Support .................................................. ......... 23%
Oppose .................................................. ......... 16%
Not sure .................................................. ........ 60%

Q7 Do you support or oppose the Panetta-Burns plan?
Support........................................... ................ 8%
Oppose .................................................. ......... 17%
Not sure .................................................. ........ 75%

As to what the individuals were thinking specifically is of course speculation. I am not clear on the argument being made about the three questions and mockability. It would be interesting to see the same question in a different place in a poll; for example swapping the order of Q6 and Q7. But how they might differ would also be speculation. What we need not speculate on is the order and wording of the questions, and the options given for response.

[mickthinks]

Thanks chunks! Now can you post the text of the question and answer that LadyShea and I were talking about?

[chunksmediocrites]

Ah. I was looking at the part LadyShea referenced regarding my earlier post.

Originally Posted by LadyShea

That 19% has no idea what secession even is or what it would mean to them. Like chunk's example, they don't want to admit "hey, I don't really know what that is" they instead act like they are intellectual "Hmm, I really need to study the arguments and stuff before forming an opinions because I am not an idiot, I totally read"

However, you are right, as centrally you were discussing secession. Good point.

As to posting it for you, sure.

Q10 Would you support or oppose your state seceding from the union because of Barack Obama’s re-election?
Support .................................................. ......... 18%
Oppose .................................................. ......... 68%
Not sure .................................................. ........ 14%

Originally Posted by mickthinks

Maybe there were only 3 poll options available and it's the pollsters who have put such mockable words into the mouths of the don't-knows.

So is your speculation accurate? Is it the "only three poll options" that is limiting and therefore creating mockability? Is there a way that you would phrase such poll responses differently or offer more nuanced numbers of responses, to prevent such?

And since we're all asking and answering like bros, care to respond to my questions on how you define privilege? You know, the questions you've refused to answer eight times now? Thanks.

[mickthinks]

Originally Posted by chunksmediocrites

Is it the "only three poll options" that is limiting and therefore creating mockability?

Not just the "only three poll options", chunks, it's the pollsters' choice of words forced on those who need the "none of the above" option.


And since we're all asking and answering like bros, care to respond to my questions on how you define privilege? You know, the questions you've refused to answer eight times now? Thanks.
In my opinion, the answers to those questions should be as obvious to you as the one I just answered. If I thought you were genuinely in the dark, I'd be happy to help you, but I believe your ignorance was feigned and I see no point in playing along.

[chunksmediocrites]

Originally Posted by mickthinks

Not just the "only three poll options", chunks, it's the pollsters' choice of words forced on those who need the "none of the above" option.

There is a grouping of people that are neither for, against, nor unsure about secession? Perhaps it is the limitations of my imagination, but I'm having a hard time thinking what that position would be when asked the question:

Q10 Would you support or oppose your state seceding from the union because of Barack Obama’s re-election?
Support .................................................. ......... 18%
Oppose .................................................. ......... 68%
Not sure .................................................. ........ 14%

A fourth answer of None of the above for the truly ambivalent who also possess a strong sense of surety? Those who could not find the option: Poland?

[ChuckF]

You could eliminate the "not sure" option entirely and still be able to neatly identify (and mock!) the complete fucking moron respondents from the results. It's pretty simple, and goes like this: if you would not oppose your state seceding from the union because of Barack Obama's re-election - or indeed, if you even had to take some time to think about it - you are a fucking moron.

[ceptimus]

They might be sure that they want their state to secede, but NOT because of Obama's re-election? It is a slightly tricky compound question for a poll.

[Janet]

I think Chunks has hit it. They are upset because "secede and join Poland" or "secede and join Planet X" were not options.

[mickthinks]

Originally Posted by chunksmediocrites

There is a grouping of people that are neither for, against, nor unsure about secession? Perhaps it is the limitations of my imagination, but I'm having a hard time thinking what that position would be when asked the question

LadyShea was mocking those who don't understand the question because they don't know what "secede" means. "I don't know because I don't understand the question" is not the same thing as "I'm not sure because I need to study the arguments to form an opinion". If "not sure" covers both, then it hides a difference that LadyShea seemed unaware of.

[The Man]

Florida GOP leaders admit crafting law to suppress college vote | The Raw Story

[The Man]

Augustine Carter's Kafkaesque struggle to vote in 2012 in Virginia - Story of America

[The Man]

This could equally well go in conservatives say stupid shit but I'm bumping this thread so people don't forget about voter suppression.

Rand Paul to black student: Bringing up GOP voter suppression ‘demeans’ Civil Rights movement | The Raw Story

[Nullifidian]

Yeah, because Civil Rights activists didn't give a fuck whether black people were able to vote or not!