Drive by science

[erimir]

Originally Posted by Jerome

You can't be saying that gravity has the same effect on the air surrounding the plane as it does on the plane itself.

The gravity equation doesn't allow for such a consideration.

Please elaborate. Preferably with equations.

[thedoc]

Originally Posted by Jerome

If we lived on a spinning globe with the sun 93 million miles away, we should never see an apparent size change when the sun moves away from our location (sunset), yet when we have dry clear atmospheric weather conditions, the sun clearly is observed to shrink in size as it moves away.

Magnification of the Sun at Sunset - The Flat Earth Wiki



It's instructive that flat-Earther's use different claims to prove their errors.

[thedoc]

Originally Posted by Jerome

Ohh, and for the record, I don't have 'fellows', I think for myself.

Wrong, as evidenced by this thread, you don't think at all.

[Vivisectus]

Originally Posted by Jerome

Interesting, so why then is this gravity not pulling down the atmosphere in the same way?

It is.

Jerome, explain to me your model of the earth in detail please. Include the sun, the moon, the planets of our solar system, the way days and nights work, etc.

[Vivisectus]

Originally Posted by Jerome

The sun travels above and around the circular plane. Just as any light source has its power defused over distance, so does the sun.

If we lived on a spinning globe with the sun 93 million miles away, we should never see an apparent size change when the sun moves away from our location (sunset), yet when we have dry clear atmospheric weather conditions, the sun clearly is observed to shrink in size as it moves away.

Observational science ITT!

The opposite happens, Jerome. In the evening when we see the sun near the horizon, it looks bigger, not smaller. Also redder. And then it dips under the horizon.

And this within a few posts of you complaining about people making up facts to shoe-horn into a theory, rather than simply observing what happens.

[Vivisectus]

Ok, so the earth is a flat disc. The south pole is not a pole, but the edge of the disc. The sun travels above and around? Can you be more clear on this? Does the sun ever go under the disc? I assume not, because you say night is just the sun being farther away - there would be no need for this if we could simply account for night as the time the sun is under the disc - but then we have no way of accounting for the fact day and night happen at different times in different places.

This leaves us with a few tricky questions.

1: What keeps the sun from falling down? Why do we experience gravity, but apparently not the sun or the moon?
2: What causes the phases of the moon?
3: Why does the sun appear to dip below the horizon?

We will park the global conspiracy to cover up anything you cannot account for later.

[Ari]

Jerome's model seems quite like a video game where a rendering fog stops the drawing of distant objects. In that case I would guess space is topologically a torus and scrolls like pacman. The stars are just a sky box.

[Vivisectus]

Also, is 2(pi)r still the circumference of a circle? Because if it is, we need to call some airlines really fucking fast!

[Jerome]

Originally Posted by Vivisectus

The opposite happens, Jerome. In the evening when we see the sun near the horizon, it looks bigger, not smaller. Also redder. And then it dips under the horizon.

It depends upon the atmospheric conditions.

Yes, in many places as the sun moves away it is viewed through thicker atmosphere which can give the appearance that is stays the same size, or even grows.

But in dry clear atmosphere the sun can clearly be seen to get smaller as it moves away.

Flat Earth: The sun gets smaller as it moves...

[Jerome]

Originally Posted by Vivisectus

The sun travels above and around? Can you be more clear on this? Does the sun ever go under the disc?

No, it does not.

1: What keeps the sun from falling down? Why do we experience gravity, but apparently not the sun or the moon?

Buoyancy. There is no such thing as gravity, what is called gravity is buoyancy.

2: What causes the phases of the moon?

The moon produces its own light.

3: Why does the sun appear to dip below the horizon?

The same reason a long hallway appears the have the walls, ceiling, and floor converge at you eye level in the distance, its perspective.

[Jerome]

Originally Posted by erimir

Please elaborate. Preferably with equations.

Yea, its your claim, so you have to explain it, lol.

Explain how gravity effects the atmosphere surrounding the plane at the same rate as gravity effects the plane. You are in trouble because the gravity equation does not allow this.

[Vivisectus]

Originally Posted by Jerome

It depends upon the atmospheric conditions.

Yes, in many places as the sun moves away it is viewed through thicker atmosphere which can give the appearance that is stays the same size, or even grows.

But in dry clear atmosphere the sun can clearly be seen to get smaller as it moves away.

Yes, in many places as the sun moves away it is viewed through thicker atmosphere which can give the appearance that is stays the same size, or even grows.

Scientism ITT! When the observations do not match the pre-conceived model, simply conjure up some magical effect to explain it!

But in dry clear atmosphere the sun can clearly be seen to get smaller as it moves away.

You should try measuring it sometimes. Turns out, it doesn't. Same with the moon.

[Vivisectus]

Originally Posted by Jerome

It depends upon the atmospheric conditions.

Yes, in many places as the sun moves away it is viewed through thicker atmosphere which can give the appearance that is stays the same size, or even grows.

But in dry clear atmosphere the sun can clearly be seen to get smaller as it moves away.

So what "atmospheric conditions" or "persepctive" causes it to sink below the horizon?

[Jerome]

The same reason a long hallway looks like the walls, ceiling, and floor converge in the distance at a point at your eye level.

Perspective. Observable, repeatable, testable.

You don't really think the ceiling in a long hallway is moving down towards the floor, do you?

[Jerome]

Originally Posted by Vivisectus

You should try measuring it sometimes. Turns out, it doesn't. Same with the moon.

So you deny the video evidence presented.

[Vivisectus]

Buoyancy. There is no such thing as gravity, what is called gravity is buoyancy.

Fascinating! So what causes this force you call buoyancy? How does it work?

And how strange that when I step on some water, there is apparently no force pulling me down. So why do I still sink? The only force acting on my body is the buoyancy of the air - the buoyancy of the water does not even get a look in, as there is no force whatever pulling me down!

What is falling Jerome? How does it work?

The moon produces its own light.

How odd - and yet on a clear night, when there is a half-moon, I can see a lit crescent part, and a darker part which is still visible and makes up the rest of the circle. Does it have some light-emitting substance that changes shape as it flows across it's surface or something?

Wait no that cannot be it: inventing shit to explain how what you observe fits your model is scientism!

The same reason a long hallway appears the have the walls, ceiling, and floor converge at you eye level in the distance, its perspective.

So when you see someone walk towards you along a really long hallway, you first don't see them at all. Then you see the top of their head. Then their whole face. And so on until their shoes emerge above the apparent horizon?

That is some amazing observational science right there. :lol)

[Vivisectus]

Originally Posted by Jerome

So you deny the video evidence presented.

@ video evidence.

Jerome, you need to go and meet Peacegirl. You and her have so much in common. Like an apparently inability to remember those 4th grade experiments where you measure the moon close to the horizon, and then again when it is high up... and find out that they do not actually change that much at all.

[Jerome]

How does your model explain an eclipse with both the sun and moon in the sky?

[Vivisectus]

selenelion. Rare, but occasionally possible. And guess what? We can tell you when and where it will happen, because the model allows us to make accurate predictions.

How does yours account for lunar eclipses at all? The moon gives it's own light!

[Vivisectus]

But tell me - how does perspective make a person seem smaller when farther away by making the bottom half of that person disappear without much change to the apparent size of the top half? This happens to the sun, apparently, so we should be able to do some observational science? Maybe with some video evidence?

[Jerome]

lol, naming it doesn't explain it.

[Jerome]

Originally Posted by Vivisectus

But tell me - how does perspective make a person seem smaller when farther away by making the bottom half of that person disappear without much change to the apparent size of the top half? This happens to the sun, apparently, so we should be able to do some observational science? Maybe with some video evidence?

Because that is how perspective works. Not sure why you are denying this phenomenon you have experience uncountable times in your own reality.

The same reason a cars tires as it travels away from you are 'blending' into the roadway. You can't be claiming the curvature of the earth has an effect on a flat straight road over a relatively short distance. Of so, you don't understand what the curvature is.

[Jerome]

lol, he tries to say the sun's light is being curved all the way around the whole earth!!

I guess that would make it day time everywhere at the same time!!1!111!

Lunar Eclipse at Sunrise: Selenelion viewed from...

[thedoc]

Originally Posted by Jerome

How does your model explain an eclipse with both the sun and moon in the sky?

The Earth orbits the Sun and the Moon orbits the Earth, and both the Sun and the Moon are in the sky almost half a month. The Moon doesn't pass in front of the Sun every month, so there isn't an eclipse every month.

[thedoc]

Originally Posted by Jerome

Because that is how perspective works.

No it doesn't work that way, if the object moves away the whole object gets smaller, it doesn't dissapear over the horizon.