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  #126  
Old 04-09-2019, 02:13 PM
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Default Re: Ultimate Cagefight MMXIX, Democratic Edition

davidm: Bear in mind that I predicted, in this forum, in January 2016, that Drumpf would be elected president ...
erimir: On the other hand, davidm also predicted that Trump would not appoint Scalias. ... And that his administration would not attack LGBT rights.
davidm: Actually, you little lying liar, I did not predict any of those things.


This then is the form of language lil' david uses when he's predicting stuff:
Quote:
Originally Posted by davidm View Post
I now think that he is likely to be elected president.
... whereas this is the form of language he uses when he isn't:
Quote:
Originally Posted by davidm View Post
I will add that I think Trump, if elected, will do nothing to impede gay or transgender rights and will not appoint Scalias to the Supreme Court.
... and you are a liar if you can't see the difference between them. A LIAR!

:fuuu:
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  #127  
Old 04-12-2019, 05:20 AM
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Default Re: Ultimate Cagefight MMXIX, Democratic Edition



Interesting place to throw a hat.
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  #128  
Old 04-12-2019, 03:00 PM
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Default Re: Ultimate Cagefight MMXIX, Democratic Edition

Not only is she a real anti-war candidate, now she's gone rogue. Quick, destroy her! Er.. er.. Russian puppet! Assad lover! Putin lover! Putin asset puppet!
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  #129  
Old 04-13-2019, 01:18 AM
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Default Re: Ultimate Cagefight MMXIX, Democratic Edition

Love to be pro-bombing people in foreign countries but somehow still get credit for being anti-war



She also voted to block Syrian and Iraqi refugees from coming to the US, participating in xenophobic/Islamophobic fearmongering about them.

The question, I suppose, is what is it about Gabbard's views that gets people like But to describe her as anti-war? :chin:
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  #130  
Old 04-13-2019, 09:57 AM
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Default Re: Ultimate Cagefight MMXIX, Democratic Edition

Hey, every time there's a bunch of hand-wringing about how are we going to pay for Medicare for All, how are we going to pay for the Green New Deal, how are we going to pay for things that would actually benefit people- not least of which the 28 million US citizens currently without insurance-
U.S. HAS SPENT SIX TRILLION DOLLARS ON WARS THAT KILLED HALF A MILLION PEOPLE SINCE 9/11, REPORT SAYS
Ahem-I have a fucking idea where we can pare down some expenses; redirect some funds. Maybe even not kill so many people?

And tax corporations:
Report finds twice as many companies will pay zero in taxes this year
YOU PAID TAXES. THESE CORPORATIONS DIDN’T.
And tax the rich; get rid of tax havens inside and out of the US, tax High-Frequency trading and increase capital gains; tax billionaires down to millionaires.
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  #131  
Old 04-13-2019, 03:23 PM
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Default Re: Ultimate Cagefight MMXIX, Democratic Edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by erimir View Post
The question, I suppose, is what is it about Gabbard's views that gets people like But to describe her as anti-war? :chin:

I don't know, but I could list some statements (is erimir mind-reading again?) that make But (not people like him) describe her as an anti-war candidate.
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  #132  
Old 04-13-2019, 09:02 PM
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Default Re: Ultimate Cagefight MMXIX, Democratic Edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by But View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by erimir View Post
The question, I suppose, is what is it about Gabbard's views that gets people like But to describe her as anti-war? :chin:
I don't know, but I could list some statements (is erimir mind-reading again?)
Are you really trying to make some pedantic point that Gabbard's views and her public statements aren't the same thing? Is the idea that those tweets of hers I linked to were not necessarily her true beliefs or...? I'm claiming to be a mind reader by taking those statements at face value?
Quote:
that make But (not people like him) describe her as an anti-war candidate.
Is there some reason "candidate" is italicized, as if it is contrasting with something I said?

Like is Gabbard a "real anti-war candidate" but not an anti-war member of Congress? I don't get what you're trying to say here.

I gave some statements Gabbard made, which make it clear she isn't opposed to bombing people in foreign countries. She wanted the US to bomb ISIS/Al-Qaeda more.

At any rate, Gabbard is polling at 0.6% in national primary polls, so I don't think there's much urgency in destroying her.
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  #133  
Old 04-14-2019, 02:16 PM
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Default Re: Ultimate Cagefight MMXIX, Democratic Edition

She's taking a public position against foreign intervention and regime change wars as she's running for office. That looks pretty good to me. Then again, I don't vote, so what do I care?

Hmm, poll numbers.. is it going to be Uncle Joe? I can't wait to see the media playing endless loops of him groping little girls with his loving tenderness. :aww:

Overall, it looks like one Trump victory has had a very positive effect on the Democratic Party. Maybe you need another one.
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  #134  
Old 04-14-2019, 08:10 PM
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Default Re: Ultimate Cagefight MMXIX, Democratic Edition

Warren released her Q1 numbers- turns out she raised $6 million; that combined with her transfer from her congressional war chest of $10 million keeps her solid/ strong in monetary support. Warren has proposed the following recently in 2019:
Elizabeth Warren Proposes Eliminating The Electoral College
Agreed!
Sen. Warren's plan to break up the big tech companies is good, but too narrow
Despite the headline, any candidate discussing breaking up the monopolies and too-big-to-fail non-state economies is speaking truth.
Warren proposes breaking up Big Ag
Mentions "unfair farming monopolies" and targets Bayer-Monsanto merger.
New Bill From Elizabeth Warren Proposes Potential Jail Time for CEOs Over Massive Consumer Data Breaches
Aimed squarely at Equifax and the like: excellent proposal.
Elizabeth Warren proposes new tax on corporate profits
A 7% tax on corporate earnings over $100 million; would impact 1200 companies.
Here are 6 of Elizabeth Warren’s bold ideas that prove she’s as progressive as Bernie Sanders Quoted below (severely edited to base points)
Quote:
1. realizes that gaping wealth inequality is terrible for free-market capitalism
2. understands that the U.S. tax system is rigged in favor of the 1%
3. favors a wealth tax on the richest Americans
4. proposes breaking up the United States’ largest banks
5. stresses that increasing the minimum wage is vital to having a strong middle class
6. views universal health care as essential to a healthy economy
Wanted to make sure I wasn't under-appreciating Warren who has a lot of solid positions, and substance for a former-Republican and "capitalist-to-her-bones" candidate.
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  #135  
Old 04-14-2019, 08:59 PM
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Default Re: Ultimate Cagefight MMXIX, Democratic Edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by But View Post
She's taking a public position against foreign intervention and regime change wars as she's running for office. That looks pretty good to me.
And she also took a public position that Obama wasn't bombing Syria enough or demonizing Islam enough (she criticized Obama for not saying "radical Islamic terrorism"). Like I said, I wonder what it is that makes those statements forgivable so you'll describe her as a "real" anti-war candidate. I don't see those kind of past statements by other candidates handwaved as irrelevant. Why don't you see her current position as just dishonest pandering? It's curious.
Quote:
Hmm, poll numbers.. is it going to be Uncle Joe? I can't wait to see the media playing endless loops of him groping little girls with his loving tenderness. :aww:
Biden will probably not be the nominee (<50% chance), but he is the most likely nominee based on the polls. It's early, so things can change a lot between now and the actual voting. But you'd much rather be Biden than Gabbard, and people with polls like Gabbard's almost never become the candidate (given that she has by far the lowest favorability rating of any major Democratic candidate, the closest analogue would be Trump at the start of his campaign).

I'm not sure what this snarky tone is supposed to mean. Am I supposed to dismiss the polls as meaningless because I don't like the fact that Biden is in the lead and Warren is not?
Quote:
Overall, it looks like one Trump victory has had a very positive effect on the Democratic Party. Maybe you need another one.
That's right. All the people Trump is harming are just tools for teaching the Democratic Party a lesson.
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  #136  
Old 04-14-2019, 09:41 PM
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Default Re: Ultimate Cagefight MMXIX, Democratic Edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by erimir View Post
That's right. All the people Trump is harming are just tools for teaching the Democratic Party a lesson.

Well, they will be harmed even more if the Dems don't get their shit together. If you put up a horrible candidate, you have no one except yourself to blame.
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  #137  
Old 04-14-2019, 10:38 PM
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Default Re: Ultimate Cagefight MMXIX, Democratic Edition

Who is "you"?

Me? Millions of Democratic voters? Hundreds of Democratic politicians?

Do only they have agency? Democratic leaders make a choice and they either fail or succeed, nobody else has anything to do with it?

Should people on the left support the Democrat out of solidarity even if they don't agree with them 100%, or do they have no such obligation to help stop an aspiring fascist like Trump?
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  #138  
Old 04-14-2019, 11:42 PM
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Default Re: Ultimate Cagefight MMXIX, Democratic Edition

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Originally Posted by erimir View Post
Who is "you"?

Me? Millions of Democratic voters? Hundreds of Democratic politicians?

The guys in the smoke-filled back room, who else?
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  #139  
Old 04-16-2019, 12:57 AM
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Default Re: Ultimate Cagefight MMXIX, Democratic Edition

Bernie Sanders update:
Bernie Sanders releases 10 years of tax returns, showing how his 2016 presidential run vaulted him into wealth
Also on the subject of Sanders:
Bernie Sanders Hits 1 Million Donations in Less Than Two Months
Bernie Sanders Accuses Liberal Think Tank Of Creating ‘Smears’ Against Progressive Candidates
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  #140  
Old 04-16-2019, 02:33 AM
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Default Re: Ultimate Cagefight MMXIX, Democratic Edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by chunksmediocrites View Post
Warren released her Q1 numbers- turns out she raised $6 million; that combined with her transfer from her congressional war chest of $10 million keeps her solid/ strong in monetary support. Warren has proposed the following recently in 2019:
Elizabeth Warren Proposes Eliminating The Electoral College
Agreed!
Sen. Warren's plan to break up the big tech companies is good, but too narrow
Despite the headline, any candidate discussing breaking up the monopolies and too-big-to-fail non-state economies is speaking truth.
Warren proposes breaking up Big Ag
Mentions "unfair farming monopolies" and targets Bayer-Monsanto merger.
New Bill From Elizabeth Warren Proposes Potential Jail Time for CEOs Over Massive Consumer Data Breaches
Aimed squarely at Equifax and the like: excellent proposal.
Elizabeth Warren proposes new tax on corporate profits
A 7% tax on corporate earnings over $100 million; would impact 1200 companies.
Here are 6 of Elizabeth Warren’s bold ideas that prove she’s as progressive as Bernie Sanders Quoted below (severely edited to base points)
Quote:
1. realizes that gaping wealth inequality is terrible for free-market capitalism
2. understands that the U.S. tax system is rigged in favor of the 1%
3. favors a wealth tax on the richest Americans
4. proposes breaking up the United States’ largest banks
5. stresses that increasing the minimum wage is vital to having a strong middle class
6. views universal health care as essential to a healthy economy
Wanted to make sure I wasn't under-appreciating Warren who has a lot of solid positions, and substance for a former-Republican and "capitalist-to-her-bones" candidate.
I would dearly dearly love to run Warren and see her elected but for the heritage thing. She looks exactly like my beloved great aunt Irene, fer pete sakes, a single woman who was an elementary school teacher in rural upstate Pennsylvania, heated with coal, hand pumped water and fed herself with her flock and a garden that she fertilized with horse apples she collected off the road.

For all of that and the aforementioned policy pluses, I have a deep and abiding fear that the heritage thing may be an insurmountable hindrance. The republicans and their pr asset array will hammer hammer hammer and tong at it, long, hard and continuous.
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Last edited by SR71; 04-16-2019 at 02:50 AM.
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  #141  
Old 04-16-2019, 06:50 AM
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Default Re: Ultimate Cagefight MMXIX, Democratic Edition

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Originally Posted by SR71 View Post
The republicans and their pr asset array will hammer hammer hammer and tong at it, long, hard and continuous.
That will happen to whoever faces Trump. You don't think there isn't something for them to latch onto for each and every Dem candidate?

Bernie is a COMMIE SOCIALIST :eek:
Biden will feel up your daughters and wives :eek:
Buttigieg is TEH GAYS :eek:
blah blah blah blah blah :ranting:
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  #142  
Old 04-16-2019, 07:41 AM
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Default Re: Ultimate Cagefight MMXIX, Democratic Edition

Given that Trump and his allies liked to amplify the "superpredator" stuff, I wouldn't be surprised if the 1994 Crime Bill was used against him a lot, because unlike Clinton who was derided for merely supporting it*, Biden authored it. And his issues with school desegregation (i.e. opposition to busing) will be amplified as well. The fact that it's an incredibly hypocritical attack won't stop him, no matter how Trump's DOJ has behaved and Trump's views on police brutality, etc.

Likewise, Biden can be attacked for his connections to credit card companies, and for all we know, they'll attack him for the Anita Hill hearings too. No matter that it's all hypocritical.

They'll try to depress the Democratic vote again by reducing enthusiasm, so the fact that he's vulnerable to many of the same attacks as Clinton (but often worse) worries me a bit about Biden... On the other hand, he does have :dancebey: to help him a bit there.

*Bernie Sanders, however, was given a pass for voting for it, because he didn't like the bad stuff in it when he voted for it, which makes it ok
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  #143  
Old 04-16-2019, 01:27 PM
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Default Re: Ultimate Cagefight MMXIX, Democratic Edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by slimshady2357 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by SR71 View Post
The republicans and their pr asset array will hammer hammer hammer and tong at it, long, hard and continuous.
That will happen to whoever faces Trump. You don't think there isn't something for them to latch onto for each and every Dem candidate?

Bernie is a COMMIE SOCIALIST :eek:
Biden will feel up your daughters and wives :eek:
Buttigieg is TEH GAYS :eek:
blah blah blah blah blah :ranting:
True enough, but the real weight has to be measured by how much the charge will resonate with the full electorate. I feel that in Warren's case the charge will have significant traction among minorities. Minority turn out is critical.
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  #144  
Old 04-16-2019, 09:13 PM
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Default Re: Ultimate Cagefight MMXIX, Democratic Edition

Bernie Sanders finally released his tax returns and it revealed that... he made a lot of money in the past few years, and otherwise nothing particularly notable.

I saw some people attacking him for not giving more to charity, and I guess he could afford to give more. But I believe Bernie Sanders has some level of ideological opposition to charity.

Some of you may be surprised to find that I'm about to defend Bernie Sanders (because you have decided that I'm a center-right status quo shill or some other such idiocy because I disagree with you about other things), but this is not an area where I disagree with him! Charity is certainly better than wealth-hoarding, but most charity is handing out help to a lucky few while leaving the underlying causes untouched. Building a school is nice and all... ensuring that the government is willing and able to fund schools for everyone is far better, IMO.

That someone compared Sanders unfavorably to Bill Gates and his philanthropic endeavors. But Gates's endeavors are largely non-political (and the ones that have some political component include promoting charter schools, which is ineffective, scapegoats teachers and is often a backdoor way of busting the teachers' unions) while right-wing billionaires spend more money on ensuring that the government is unaccountable to the people and thus cements their own power, while giving smaller amounts to charity so they can portray themselves as helping people. Libertarians are often quite charitable, btw, because their opposition isn't necessarily to helping people. They just want to decide who is worthy of help, rather than the people democratically taking and using the power to help themselves.

Gates would be more effective in helping people (in the US anyway) if he spent more of his money on promoting things that increase people's power rather than merely addressing the symptoms of their poverty. Individual Democratic candidates don't want and probably wouldn't benefit from a billionaire sugar daddy, but he could invest Adelson-like sums in promoting voter registration, efforts to combat gerrymandering and voter suppression, unionization, providing material support to striking workers, etc. etc. Efforts that would help Democrats get elected, and would result in his taxes going up and programs being better funded, thus reducing the need for his philanthropy. Billionaires helping to, say, build schools for the lucky few who receive their beneficence while ignoring the reasons why schools aren't adequately funded in the first place is nice and all, but doesn't help the vast majority of people and coincidentally is no threat to their socioeconomic positions.

Philanthropy is admirable, but it isn't anywhere near a replacement for a government where the poor have their priorities properly represented and Gates doesn't seem particularly concerned about ensuring we have one, while right-wing billionaires spend their money to ensure we don't.

That said, Sanders could certainly afford to give more money than 3%, if that is the extent of his donations. But I wouldn't be the least bit bothered if his charitable deductions were low because he gave more money to left-wing political causes which are non-deductible.
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  #145  
Old 04-17-2019, 12:53 AM
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Default Re: Ultimate Cagefight MMXIX, Democratic Edition

Bernie Sanders and the Science of Smears- RollingStone article by Matt Taibbi.
I'm gonna be transparent here again to say I currently support Bernie Sanders for the nomination. And I'm a fan of Taibbi's work, which I think is strong. The thing is I've made the first half of his argument a bunch of times: pointing out Kucinich held the same role that Sanders was ready to carry: Leftist window dressing to remind a captive base that you can be a splitter but we both know you ain't voting for the Party to the Right of the Dems; then during the primary where the "electable" centrist candidate would then get the nod since Bill Clinton's days. But to the surprise of the Democratic Party, they did not expect how well Sander's message resonated with a large number of Americans- because those positions are actually mainstream and the Centrist Dems and Political Money Siphoning Class and the Media are behind as fuck, because they've been so busy telling us we can't have shit and to suck it and turning our misery into money. Bolding below is my own.

Quote:
Back when Sanders didn’t seem like a threat to win anything, he got much of the same. He was dismissed as a geek and a wallflower who’d be defined by whether he chose to be a help or a hindrance to the real candidate, Clinton. The New Yorker’s John Cassidy in early 2015 mock-welcomed Bernie to the race, insisting the entrance of the “loner” would be a “plus” for the Clinton campaign, since he would “occupy the space to the left of Clinton, thus denying it to more plausible candidates, such as Martin O’Malley.”

It wasn’t until Sanders started piling up delegates that he began to take on the villainous characteristics for which he is now infamous. After he won primaries in 2016, suddenly reporters ripped him as a divisive narcissist with three houses who was the ideological mirror of Donald Trump, boasting racist, sexist and violent followers.

This was all part of the age-old technique of focusing on the person instead of the ideas or the movement behind them. Sanders wasn’t winning in 2016 because Bernie Sanders is some great stump act — he isn’t. A fair portion of his support was coming from people who were fed up with both parties even before he decided to run.

The easiest way to avoid dealing with uncomfortable truths is to create an ick factor around the politician benefiting from them. That was Sanders in 2016 and it’s still him, mainly. However, Elizabeth Warren of Massachusetts and Tulsi Gabbard of Hawaii have also been pre-emptively dipped in the ick this cycle, cast as crippled politicians whose mere presence in the race will “undermine” Democrats in the end.

Additionally, and I could see it coming even a year ago, politicians benefiting from domestic discontent with the status quo are being denounced as Kremlin favorites as well as selfish agents of division.

On the day Gabbard announced her run for the presidency, MSNBC ran a story claiming Russian-linked social media accounts were pushing a “possible campaign of support” for the Hawaii Democrat. The story was sourced to the firm New Knowledge, which had been caught by the Times faking an almost identical story about Russian trolls and Alabama Republican Roy Moore.

Sanders was described as the Kremlin candidate in the Washington Post just a few days ago. This was unsurprising since the Post was asking as far back as the fall of 2017 how Democrats would respond to Putin playing dirty tricks for Sanders in 2020.


There are people who will protest that descriptions of such Russian activity boosting Sanders are rooted in fact, as efforts to reach his supports are described in Special Counsel Robert Mueller’s indictment of the Internet Research Agency. That’s fine. I would counsel anyone who thinks Russia is responsible for the rise of Sanders or people like Gabbard or Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez should go out and interview voters around the country, especially in remote areas.

The anger toward the political establishment that drives support for such politicians began to be visible over a decade ago, long before Sanders or Gabbard were factors in any kind in national politics.

Those voters aren’t selfish, or hypocrites, or Kremlin favorites, and they’re not going anywhere. What a lot of DC-based reporters and analysts don’t grasp is that if you remove Bernie Sanders from the scene, there will still be millions of people out there mad about income inequality. Remove Gabbard, and discontent about the human and financial costs of our military commitments will still be rampant. Removing Warren won’t cancel out anger about Wall Street corruption.

Covering personalities instead of political movements only delays things for a while. Sooner or later, the conservatism of tomorrow arrives. You can only delay the inevitable for so long.
On that same note:
Liberal Think Tank Assailed By Bernie Sanders Admits Video On Him Was ‘Overly Harsh’

I'm not boo-hooing here, or running victory laps, but buckling in and taking my protein pills, because there's a long slog to 2020, and who knows where all this could go. More importantly, there is already a massive machine gearing up to kill any progressive candidacy coming from the Democrats, especially any candidacy that pushes for Medicare for All- because the Health Insurance Industry and Pharmaceutical industry sees a clear threat to their profits/existence. But simultaneously, Bernie and literally any other progressive candidate that might be seen as a threat are being targeted.
I'm Going to Have a Rage Stroke Over This Story About Dem Elites Trying to Take Bernie Out
I'm gonna do a shitty here and quote the article quoting the NYT (paywalls are not something I try to link to often, so I'm working around).
Quote:
Quote:
WASHINGTON — When Leah Daughtry, a former Democratic Party official, addressed a closed-door gathering of about 100 wealthy liberal donors in San Francisco last month, all it took was a review of the 2020 primary rules to throw a scare in them.

Democrats are likely to go into their convention next summer without having settled on a presidential nominee, said Ms. Daughtry, who ran her party’s conventions in 2008 and 2016, the last two times the nomination was contested. And Senator Bernie Sanders is well positioned to be one of the last candidates standing, she noted.
You can almost feel the terror. How will wealthy donors and their allies in the halls of power derail a candidacy they did everything they could to hobble the last time around—when their betrothed was supposed to win it all—when it’s proving even more popular as the 2020 primary heats up?

Then come the worst two paragraphs I’ve read all week, so far (emphasis mine throughout):

Quote:
From canapé-filled fund-raisers on the coasts to the cloakrooms of Washington, mainstream Democrats are increasingly worried that their effort to defeat President Trump in 2020 could be complicated by Mr. Sanders, in a political scenario all too reminiscent of how Mr. Trump himself seized the Republican nomination in 2016.

How, some Democrats are beginning to ask, do they thwart a 70-something candidate from outside the party structure who is immune to intimidation or incentive and wields support from an unwavering base, without simply reinforcing his “the establishment is out to get me’’ message — the same grievance Mr. Trump used to great effect?
Buttigieg was at some of those meetings, where everybody was brainstorming on how to tank actual progressives. Taibbi's last sentence applies in response here as well. I knew this was coming when I saw the first CNN Washington DC Town Hall with Sanders was packed with unlabeled Centrist Dems- and I expect more. A lot is at stake.
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  #146  
Old 04-17-2019, 02:09 AM
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Default Re: Ultimate Cagefight MMXIX, Democratic Edition

Look, if Bernie Sanders can't withstand scrutiny and criticism of his personal finances, then it's because he's a shitty candidate. That ThinkProgress piece didn't have any factual errors in it, and other people in the media are talking about Sanders's wealth. He released his financial information, it was a story. ThinkProgress reported on what was in them and related it to his public behavior. This is its job. Do you expect them just not to cover Sanders's wealth at all? That would have been a total dereliction of its professional responsibility. Do you suppose that nobody else covered this information? Then why single out ThinkProgress?

Sanders and his apologists cannot accept that he might just be a shitty candidate. Always someone else is to blame for his losing in 2016 or that he's not being coronated now. The media, CAP, David Brock, superdelegates (as if he was entitled to the nomination despite getting 4 million fewer votes), etc. It’s never Sanders's fault, or the fault of his supporters.
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Also factions within the Democratic Party are meeting and discussing various issues, which apparently includes discussing how they can support their preferred candidates to win. A meeting of progressives which was not necessarily gathered for the purpose of stopping Biden, but at which some attendees discussed how they can stop Biden would not be portrayed as nefarious. I don't support Biden, but people who do support Biden discussing how to beat Bernie is not automatically "subverting the will of the people". That elected Democrats have preferences between candidates is not a scandal.
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  #147  
Old 04-17-2019, 05:20 AM
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Default Re: Ultimate Cagefight MMXIX, Democratic Edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by erimir View Post
Sanders and his apologists cannot accept that he might just be a shitty candidate.

:pat:
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  #148  
Old 04-17-2019, 05:30 AM
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Default Re: Ultimate Cagefight MMXIX, Democratic Edition

You probably can't even tell me what my point is there.
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Old 04-17-2019, 05:12 PM
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Default Re: Ultimate Cagefight MMXIX, Democratic Edition

You probably can't either.

:yawn:

It's just another shitty attempt at sarcasm, taking a jab at davidm or the Vichy Times or whatever, swapping Bernie for Hillary. Woah, that's deep, genius.
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Old 04-17-2019, 08:47 PM
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Default Re: Ultimate Cagefight MMXIX, Democratic Edition

But explaining why it's valid in one case and not the other is not something you'll ever attempt. (Also "the Vichy Times" is not my term and I've never called them that.)

The idea of "only [Democratic Party/candidate] has agency" doesn't seem very convincing when applied to Bernie Sanders, does it?

Refusing to take all the blame is bad... except when Bernie Sanders has never accepted any responsibility for his 2016 loss. Then he's just correct about being blameless I suppose.

Nor can you defend exaggerated coverage of something relatively trivial by pointing to the fact that other media outlets covered it. Implying that the only alternative is never saying anything negative also seems dumb.

Calling it shitty sarcasm or posting a smiley is genius, saves you from having to actually defend that idiocy.

Perhaps the media is biased against Bernie and progressives. Maybe the media is biased against female candidates. Maybe most of the media is biased against Democrats more generally in various ways. These are not mutually exclusive things!

And maybe Bernie did lose in 2016 due to things that were outside of his control. But a large part of his loss was his own fault. Yet I never see him scolded for the fact that he never says so publicly. Nobody says it's his fault for Trump because he fucked up the race against Hillary, yet that sort of reasoning is frequently applied to other politicians (especially, of course, Hillary). Explaining why that makes sense isn't something you'll ever try to do. So you'll post a :yawn: or a :pat: and go on repeating the same stupid tropes later.

ETA: More seriously, while the ThinkProgress video does pick up on something - notably, that Bernie Sanders was more interested in demonizing "millionaires" before he was one, it doesn't actually point to any real change in his platform or his structural critique. It's not making a very interesting point as a result. It seems to be implying some notable hypocrisy, but doesn't actually point to anything that matters. At the same time, his reaction to the video has been over the top, and if you think that amounts to a massive media conspiracy against him that could threaten his campaign, then yeah, he probably is a "shitty candidate". It's incredibly weak attack being presented as if it's substantive and it should be trivial for Sanders to rebut it (by pointing out he hasn't changed any of his policies that would raise his own taxes, etc.). Also some of his complaints are hypocritical - criticizing ThinkProgress for pieces about Cory Booker and Elizabeth Warren as somehow unfair smears on progressive candidates... when they were making critiques similar to ones made by people who hold prominent positions on his campaign. Should we conclude he thinks his own national press secretary engages in unfair smears?

Last edited by erimir; 04-17-2019 at 09:00 PM.
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