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Old 05-29-2017, 03:16 PM
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peacegirl peacegirl is offline
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Default Re: Parents, do your due diligence on vaccination! There are serious risks!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vivisectus View Post
Quote:
You are the one being very biased Vivisectus. You keep alluding to trash fringe reporting. Showing a video of a girl who has been seriously injured by the HPV vaccine is not trashy reporting.
Please to point out where I am being biased, rather than basing my opinion on facts?
You are not acknowledging that there could be a problem with this vaccine. You are in denial, that's why you're biased.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vivisectus
Also, I never even mentioned the video. Now that you mention it and draw more attention to the execrable quality of your source, I would like to say that it is pretty disgusting to use this kind of suffering as a sort of outrage-porn.
Is it outrage-porn any time a side-effect of any drug that comes to market? What the hell Vivisectus!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vivisectus
But so far I never said anything about that: I alluded only to the text and point out a) that it states things that are untrue (complete with the actual facts for your benefit) and b) that it makes wild unsupported claims.

Flaws you do not seem to care about at all. Even after they were pointed out to you. How odd!
Flaws? Where? You cannot handwave away the same symptoms seen over and over again in young girls who were unlucky enough to be the victims. So are you denying that syncope is a result of this vaccine; that POTS is a result of this vaccine; that infertility is a result of this vaccine; that getting cervical cancer is a result of this vaccine IN A SUBSET OF GIRLS who were perfectly healthy before getting the shot?

Quote:
You're dodging and I think you know it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vivisectus
Not at all: I have engaged with your link, and checked the information it contained. Which turns out to be untrue, but you seem curiously uninterested in that. In fact so far you have not responded to the criticism at all, but in stead continue as if it does not exist.
Because the argument that the reactions seen are not due to this vaccine is total denial, and sad for the many girls who will become infertile, or worse, die without the medical profession acknowledging that this was due to the vaccine.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vivisectus
So which behavior is better characterized as "dodging?"
Yours. Be true to yourself Vivisectus.

Quote:
Why do you not care about the girls who have been injured or died as a result of this vaccine?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vivisectus
:lol: Why do you hate toddlers, Peacegirl? Do you not care about the thousands of them that are doomed to autism due to seatbelts?
Just shut up with this garbage, okay?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vivisectus
My level of caring does not come in to it. I simply do not assume, without evidence, that the vaccine hurt them.

You should try it sometimes.
This is the problem; that you trust a limited study (or studies) and conclude that the onset of these illnesses have nothing to do with the vaccine. You are so blinded, it shows how conformist someone can be based on his belief that the "science" is settled and more accurate than a mother's testimony. :doh:

Quote:
Don't you see that it's a game of Russian Roulette?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vivisectus
:lol:

Sure. One with 9 million chambers, of which under 200 are loaded... so it seems it is actually safer than not playing, because the incidence of the diseases you fear is actually higher in the general population.

A fact that I pointed out. And that has now passed you by completely again as you spout the usual hysterics, rather than respond to the simple facts I have conveniently found for you.
Your premise contains an assumption that it is safer to get the shot than not. That is a logical fallacy. I may decide to fly on a plane with these small odds that a crash will occur, because if I want to get from A to B I have no other choice, but I am not obligated to give my child a shot that may not even be needed (your premise), and may cause undue harm to some. I am not willing to take that chance. There are other ways to protect oneself. Education is key.

Quote:
Why wouldn't you look at the risks that are associated with this vaccine?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vivisectus
I did. I looked it all up. I then even provided links to the associated studies so you could check them.
It's the same thing you use to determine the risks with the MMR, or other vaccines. You refuse to look at the clinical data because that's not important to you, yet in every appointment with a good doctor, the first thing they want to know is your history and what you, who are closest to your child, have observed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vivisectus
You however, seem to have forgotten to look up the actual facts before happily jumping to your conclusions. In fact, you seem unable to respond to the facts even now I have served them up on a plate for you!

And yet you happily accuse other people of not wanting to look at the facts. Does that not strike you as a bit hypocritical?
I try to look at the facts, but I'm not convinced that the benefits outweigh the risks. You served me a bunch of studies that are limited in scope and are often misleading. They cannot test for all variables in all populations when it comes to health outcomes. Why are you so bent on believing that this is a slam dunk? You admitted you don't even believe children have been hurt by this vaccine. You cannot be serious. This makes me very distrustful of your judgment. This, to me, is an unwillingless to even hear anything that contravenes what you have convinced yourself is absolute truth.

Quote:
The studies may be objective, but they are narrow in scope, and may be leaving out data that suggests the risks may be too great.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vivisectus
If we can freely speculate then anything is possible. If we stick to known facts, however, then we see that the rate at which girls experience the symptoms described is actually lower than those in the general population.
Maybe so, but their experiences matter. Why are you dissing them, as if only the girls who did well count. Don't you care about the girls who did not do well and got deathly sick?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vivisectus
Has it sunk in this time? I really do not see how I can break it down for you even further.
Stop patronizing me.

Quote:
Can you imagine a young girl becoming infertile because of this jab? Can you imagine a girl not being able to control her blood pressure when standing as a condition she will now have to live with for the rest of her life? Can you imagine how a parent would feel knowing they did this to their child thinking it was the right thing to do?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vivisectus
Lets see - lots of loaded language and assorted nonsense. Let me give it a go too: Can you imagine seeing your child revert to autism the moment it is strapped into an autism belt?

Sure you can - but why would you?
This response makes me upset. To suggest that these illnesses are imaginary, or have nothing to do with the vaccine, is doing a disservice to all those girls who will now have to live with permanent damage, and it's cruel.

Quote:
You seem to refuse to even hear of the dark side. Why is that? I'm sure you will ignore anything this article says because they have campaigns that you may not agree with such as stopping mass fluoride treatment in water supplies. What an easy way to handwave away any disagreement with your position. This is a logical fallacy that you all love to use.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vivisectus
But I have not ignored it. I have read it, then checked it for accuracy - it failed that test at the first hurdle. Then I looked up some facts and figures, and some relevant studies.

As it happens, it turns out the known facts do not match up to what the article wants you to believe, or what you want to believe.

Your response to that seems to be a lot of hysterics and loaded language... without once addressing the facts! Your closest approach to a cogent argument is to say the studies "are narrow in scope, and may be leaving out data that suggests the risks may be too great."

But you do not mention which study is narrow in scope, and why their scope can be considered narrow, and the rest is pure speculation. The fact is, you do not know the first thing about these studies. All you know is that they do not confirm your bias, you you dismiss them without even having looked at them, as usual while accusing everyone else of not even looking at your sources. Again, pretty hypocritical.

I will not look at the next article you linked at the bottom just yet: we should finish examining this one first. We could start by looking at the fact it contains a blatant falsehood, and why this does not bother you at all, or change your opinion. It is almost as if facts do not matter if an article confirms your biases!

Why is that, I wonder?
Sorry, but I don't care what the studies conclude. They do not trump the complaints of devastation that have occurred from this vaccine. Call it coincidence if you must, but I have the right to do what I believe is best for my family. You have the right to do what's best for your family. I pray for all parents that they have the intuition and wisdom to make the best decision possible for their family.
__________________
"The further a society drifts from the truth, the more it will hate those who speak it." George Orwell

"The fatal tendency of mankind to leave off thinking about a thing
which is no longer doubtful is the cause of half their errors" -- John Stuart Mill

Last edited by peacegirl; 05-29-2017 at 03:27 PM.
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  #7277  
Old 05-29-2017, 03:29 PM
ChuckF's Avatar
ChuckF ChuckF is offline
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Default Re: Parents, do your due diligence on vaccination! There are serious risks!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by peacegirl View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vivisectus View Post
Quote:
You are the one being very biased Vivisectus. You keep alluding to trash fringe reporting. Showing a video of a girl who has been seriously injured by the HPV vaccine is not trashy reporting.
Please to point out where I am being biased, rather than basing my opinion on facts?
You are not acknowledging that there could be a problem with this vaccine. You are in denial, that's why you're biased.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vivisectus
Also, I never even mentioned the video. Now that you mention it and draw more attention to the execrable quality of your source, I would like to say that it is pretty disgusting to use this kind of suffering as a sort of outrage-porn.
Is it outrage-porn any time a side-effect of any drug that comes to market? What the hell Vivisectus!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vivisectus
But so far I never said anything about that: I alluded only to the text and point out a) that it states things that are untrue (complete with the actual facts for your benefit) and b) that it makes wild unsupported claims.

Flaws you do not seem to care about at all. Even after they were pointed out to you. How odd!
Flaws? Where? You cannot handwave away the same symptoms seen over and over again in young girls who were unlucky enough to be the victims. So are you denying that syncope is a result of this vaccine; that POTS is a result of this vaccine; that infertility is a result of this vaccine; that getting cervical cancer is a result of this vaccine IN A SUBSET OF GIRLS who were perfectly healthy before getting the shot?

Quote:
You're dodging and I think you know it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vivisectus
Not at all: I have engaged with your link, and checked the information it contained. Which turns out to be untrue, but you seem curiously uninterested in that. In fact so far you have not responded to the criticism at all, but in stead continue as if it does not exist.
Because the argument that the reactions seen are not due to this vaccine is total denial, and sad for the many girls who will become infertile, or worse, die without the medical profession acknowledging that this was due to the vaccine.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vivisectus
So which behavior is better characterized as "dodging?"
Yours. Be true to yourself Vivisectus.

Quote:
Why do you not care about the girls who have been injured or died as a result of this vaccine?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vivisectus
:lol: Why do you hate toddlers, Peacegirl? Do you not care about the thousands of them that are doomed to autism due to seatbelts?
Just shut up with this garbage, okay?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vivisectus
My level of caring does not come in to it. I simply do not assume, without evidence, that the vaccine hurt them.

You should try it sometimes.
This is the problem; that you trust a limited study (or studies) and conclude that the onset of these illnesses have nothing to do with the vaccine. You are so blinded, it shows how conformist someone can be based on his belief that the "science" is settled and more accurate than a mother's testimony. :doh:

Quote:
Don't you see that it's a game of Russian Roulette?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vivisectus
:lol:

Sure. One with 9 million chambers, of which under 200 are loaded... so it seems it is actually safer than not playing, because the incidence of the diseases you fear is actually higher in the general population.

A fact that I pointed out. And that has now passed you by completely again as you spout the usual hysterics, rather than respond to the simple facts I have conveniently found for you.
Your premise contains an assumption that it is safer to get the shot than not. That is a logical fallacy. I may decide to fly on a plane with these small odds that a crash will occur, because if I want to get from A to B I have no other choice, but I am not obligated to give my child a shot that may not even be needed (your premise), and may cause undue harm to some. I am not willing to take that chance. There are other ways to protect oneself. Education is key.

Quote:
Why wouldn't you look at the risks that are associated with this vaccine?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vivisectus
I did. I looked it all up. I then even provided links to the associated studies so you could check them.
It's the same thing you use to determine the risks with the MMR, or other vaccines. You refuse to look at the clinical data because that's not important to you, yet in every appointment with a good doctor, the first thing they want to know is your history and what you, who are closest to your child, have observed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vivisectus
You however, seem to have forgotten to look up the actual facts before happily jumping to your conclusions. In fact, you seem unable to respond to the facts even now I have served them up on a plate for you!

And yet you happily accuse other people of not wanting to look at the facts. Does that not strike you as a bit hypocritical?
I try to look at the facts, but I'm not convinced that the benefits outweigh the risks. You served me a bunch of studies that are limited in scope and are often misleading. They cannot test for all variables in all populations when it comes to health outcomes. Why are you so bent on believing that this is a slam dunk? You admitted you don't even believe children have been hurt by this vaccine. You cannot be serious. This makes me very distrustful of your judgment. This, to me, is an unwillingless to even hear anything that contravenes what you have convinced yourself is absolute truth.

Quote:
The studies may be objective, but they are narrow in scope, and may be leaving out data that suggests the risks may be too great.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vivisectus
If we can freely speculate then anything is possible. If we stick to known facts, however, then we see that the rate at which girls experience the symptoms described is actually lower than those in the general population.
Maybe so, but their experiences matter. Why are you dissing them, as if only the girls who did well count. Don't you care about the girls who did not do well and got deathly sick?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vivisectus
Has it sunk in this time? I really do not see how I can break it down for you even further.
Stop patronizing me.

Quote:
Can you imagine a young girl becoming infertile because of this jab? Can you imagine a girl not being able to control her blood pressure when standing as a condition she will now have to live with for the rest of her life? Can you imagine how a parent would feel knowing they did this to their child thinking it was the right thing to do?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vivisectus
Lets see - lots of loaded language and assorted nonsense. Let me give it a go too: Can you imagine seeing your child revert to autism the moment it is strapped into an autism belt?

Sure you can - but why would you?
This response makes me upset. To suggest that these illnesses are imaginary, or have nothing to do with the vaccine, is doing a disservice to all those girls who will now have to live with permanent damage, and it's cruel.

Quote:
You seem to refuse to even hear of the dark side. Why is that? I'm sure you will ignore anything this article says because they have campaigns that you may not agree with such as stopping mass fluoride treatment in water supplies. What an easy way to handwave away any disagreement with your position. This is a logical fallacy that you all love to use.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vivisectus
But I have not ignored it. I have read it, then checked it for accuracy - it failed that test at the first hurdle. Then I looked up some facts and figures, and some relevant studies.

As it happens, it turns out the known facts do not match up to what the article wants you to believe, or what you want to believe.

Your response to that seems to be a lot of hysterics and loaded language... without once addressing the facts! Your closest approach to a cogent argument is to say the studies "are narrow in scope, and may be leaving out data that suggests the risks may be too great."

But you do not mention which study is narrow in scope, and why their scope can be considered narrow, and the rest is pure speculation. The fact is, you do not know the first thing about these studies. All you know is that they do not confirm your bias, you you dismiss them without even having looked at them, as usual while accusing everyone else of not even looking at your sources. Again, pretty hypocritical.

I will not look at the next article you linked at the bottom just yet: we should finish examining this one first. We could start by looking at the fact it contains a blatant falsehood, and why this does not bother you at all, or change your opinion. It is almost as if facts do not matter if an article confirms your biases!

Why is that, I wonder?
Sorry, but I don't care what the studies conclude. They do not trump the complaints of devastation that have occurred from this vaccine. Call it coincidence if you must, but I have the right to do what I believe is best for my family. You have the right to do what's best for your family. I pray for all parents that they have the intuition and wisdom to make the best decision possible for their family.
Quoting this as a reminder to myself to re-purpose for future post about peacegirl's denial of dangers of death belts (which are more dangerous than vaccines!)
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  #7278  
Old 05-29-2017, 03:38 PM
peacegirl's Avatar
peacegirl peacegirl is offline
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Default Re: Parents, do your due diligence on vaccination! There are serious risks!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChuckF View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by peacegirl View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vivisectus View Post
Quote:
You are the one being very biased Vivisectus. You keep alluding to trash fringe reporting. Showing a video of a girl who has been seriously injured by the HPV vaccine is not trashy reporting.
Please to point out where I am being biased, rather than basing my opinion on facts?
You are not acknowledging that there could be a problem with this vaccine. You are in denial, that's why you're biased.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vivisectus
Also, I never even mentioned the video. Now that you mention it and draw more attention to the execrable quality of your source, I would like to say that it is pretty disgusting to use this kind of suffering as a sort of outrage-porn.
Is it outrage-porn any time a side-effect of any drug that comes to market? What the hell Vivisectus!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vivisectus
But so far I never said anything about that: I alluded only to the text and point out a) that it states things that are untrue (complete with the actual facts for your benefit) and b) that it makes wild unsupported claims.

Flaws you do not seem to care about at all. Even after they were pointed out to you. How odd!
Flaws? Where? You cannot handwave away the same symptoms seen over and over again in young girls who were unlucky enough to be the victims. So are you denying that syncope is a result of this vaccine; that POTS is a result of this vaccine; that infertility is a result of this vaccine; that getting cervical cancer is a result of this vaccine IN A SUBSET OF GIRLS who were perfectly healthy before getting the shot?

Quote:
You're dodging and I think you know it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vivisectus
Not at all: I have engaged with your link, and checked the information it contained. Which turns out to be untrue, but you seem curiously uninterested in that. In fact so far you have not responded to the criticism at all, but in stead continue as if it does not exist.
Because the argument that the reactions seen are not due to this vaccine is total denial, and sad for the many girls who will become infertile, or worse, die without the medical profession acknowledging that this was due to the vaccine.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vivisectus
So which behavior is better characterized as "dodging?"
Yours. Be true to yourself Vivisectus.

Quote:
Why do you not care about the girls who have been injured or died as a result of this vaccine?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vivisectus
:lol: Why do you hate toddlers, Peacegirl? Do you not care about the thousands of them that are doomed to autism due to seatbelts?
Just shut up with this garbage, okay?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vivisectus
My level of caring does not come in to it. I simply do not assume, without evidence, that the vaccine hurt them.

You should try it sometimes.
This is the problem; that you trust a limited study (or studies) and conclude that the onset of these illnesses have nothing to do with the vaccine. You are so blinded, it shows how conformist someone can be based on his belief that the "science" is settled and more accurate than a mother's testimony. :doh:

Quote:
Don't you see that it's a game of Russian Roulette?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vivisectus
:lol:

Sure. One with 9 million chambers, of which under 200 are loaded... so it seems it is actually safer than not playing, because the incidence of the diseases you fear is actually higher in the general population.

A fact that I pointed out. And that has now passed you by completely again as you spout the usual hysterics, rather than respond to the simple facts I have conveniently found for you.
Your premise contains an assumption that it is safer to get the shot than not. That is a logical fallacy. I may decide to fly on a plane with these small odds that a crash will occur, because if I want to get from A to B I have no other choice, but I am not obligated to give my child a shot that may not even be needed (your premise), and may cause undue harm to some. I am not willing to take that chance. There are other ways to protect oneself. Education is key.

Quote:
Why wouldn't you look at the risks that are associated with this vaccine?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vivisectus
I did. I looked it all up. I then even provided links to the associated studies so you could check them.
It's the same thing you use to determine the risks with the MMR, or other vaccines. You refuse to look at the clinical data because that's not important to you, yet in every appointment with a good doctor, the first thing they want to know is your history and what you, who are closest to your child, have observed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vivisectus
You however, seem to have forgotten to look up the actual facts before happily jumping to your conclusions. In fact, you seem unable to respond to the facts even now I have served them up on a plate for you!

And yet you happily accuse other people of not wanting to look at the facts. Does that not strike you as a bit hypocritical?
I try to look at the facts, but I'm not convinced that the benefits outweigh the risks. You served me a bunch of studies that are limited in scope and are often misleading. They cannot test for all variables in all populations when it comes to health outcomes. Why are you so bent on believing that this is a slam dunk? You admitted you don't even believe children have been hurt by this vaccine. You cannot be serious. This makes me very distrustful of your judgment. This, to me, is an unwillingless to even hear anything that contravenes what you have convinced yourself is absolute truth.

Quote:
The studies may be objective, but they are narrow in scope, and may be leaving out data that suggests the risks may be too great.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vivisectus
If we can freely speculate then anything is possible. If we stick to known facts, however, then we see that the rate at which girls experience the symptoms described is actually lower than those in the general population.
Maybe so, but their experiences matter. Why are you dissing them, as if only the girls who did well count. Don't you care about the girls who did not do well and got deathly sick?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vivisectus
Has it sunk in this time? I really do not see how I can break it down for you even further.
Stop patronizing me.

Quote:
Can you imagine a young girl becoming infertile because of this jab? Can you imagine a girl not being able to control her blood pressure when standing as a condition she will now have to live with for the rest of her life? Can you imagine how a parent would feel knowing they did this to their child thinking it was the right thing to do?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vivisectus
Lets see - lots of loaded language and assorted nonsense. Let me give it a go too: Can you imagine seeing your child revert to autism the moment it is strapped into an autism belt?

Sure you can - but why would you?
This response makes me upset. To suggest that these illnesses are imaginary, or have nothing to do with the vaccine, is doing a disservice to all those girls who will now have to live with permanent damage, and it's cruel.

Quote:
You seem to refuse to even hear of the dark side. Why is that? I'm sure you will ignore anything this article says because they have campaigns that you may not agree with such as stopping mass fluoride treatment in water supplies. What an easy way to handwave away any disagreement with your position. This is a logical fallacy that you all love to use.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vivisectus
But I have not ignored it. I have read it, then checked it for accuracy - it failed that test at the first hurdle. Then I looked up some facts and figures, and some relevant studies.

As it happens, it turns out the known facts do not match up to what the article wants you to believe, or what you want to believe.

Your response to that seems to be a lot of hysterics and loaded language... without once addressing the facts! Your closest approach to a cogent argument is to say the studies "are narrow in scope, and may be leaving out data that suggests the risks may be too great."

But you do not mention which study is narrow in scope, and why their scope can be considered narrow, and the rest is pure speculation. The fact is, you do not know the first thing about these studies. All you know is that they do not confirm your bias, you you dismiss them without even having looked at them, as usual while accusing everyone else of not even looking at your sources. Again, pretty hypocritical.

I will not look at the next article you linked at the bottom just yet: we should finish examining this one first. We could start by looking at the fact it contains a blatant falsehood, and why this does not bother you at all, or change your opinion. It is almost as if facts do not matter if an article confirms your biases!

Why is that, I wonder?
Sorry, but I don't care what the studies conclude. They do not trump the complaints of devastation that have occurred from this vaccine. Call it coincidence if you must, but I have the right to do what I believe is best for my family. You have the right to do what's best for your family. I pray for all parents that they have the intuition and wisdom to make the best decision possible for their family.
Quoting this as a reminder to myself to re-purpose for future post about peacegirl's denial of dangers of death belts (which are more dangerous than vaccines!)
Pump your children with 10,000 vaccines (because Paul Offit says they can't do harm), and then I'll listen to you. :D
__________________
"The further a society drifts from the truth, the more it will hate those who speak it." George Orwell

"The fatal tendency of mankind to leave off thinking about a thing
which is no longer doubtful is the cause of half their errors" -- John Stuart Mill
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  #7279  
Old 05-29-2017, 03:40 PM
Vivisectus's Avatar
Vivisectus Vivisectus is offline
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Default Re: Parents, do your due diligence on vaccination! There are serious risks!!

Quote:
Quoting this as a reminder to myself to re-purpose for future post about peacegirl's denial of dangers of death belts (which are more dangerous than vaccines!)
It is absolutely stuffed with prime material!
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  #7280  
Old 05-29-2017, 03:47 PM
ChuckF's Avatar
ChuckF ChuckF is offline
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Default Re: Parents, do your due diligence on vaccination! There are serious risks!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by peacegirl View Post
Pump your children with 10,000 vaccines (because Paul Offit says they can't do harm), and then I'll listen to you. :D
peacegirl, how can you continue not to understand this?

I do not give a fuck what you believe or to whom you listen, peacegirl. You are an ignorant parasite. You are incredibly dumb. You believe that we don't see with eyes, because your dad said so. I have no interest whatsoever in changing that, because it is useful to me.

I serve concerned parents doing their due diligence by demonstrating this, and making you say ridiculous things.

Anyway, like the huge majority of concerned mothers who love their children, I will of course vaccinate MY CHILD! Parents who love their children vaccinate their children at a higher rate than people use deathbelts, after all!

http://newamericannews.com/marriott-...guest-baffled/
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  #7281  
Old 05-29-2017, 04:22 PM
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peacegirl peacegirl is offline
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Default Re: Parents, do your due diligence on vaccination! There are serious risks!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChuckF View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by peacegirl View Post
Pump your children with 10,000 vaccines (because Paul Offit says they can't do harm), and then I'll listen to you. :D
peacegirl, how can you continue not to understand this?

I do not give a fuck what you believe or to whom you listen, peacegirl. You are an ignorant parasite. You are incredibly dumb. You believe that we don't see with eyes, because your dad said so. I have no interest whatsoever in changing that, because it is useful to me.
What the *#$*? I believe that we don't see with eyes? You're completely off the wall.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chuck
I serve concerned parents doing their due diligence by demonstrating this, and making you say ridiculous things.

Anyway, like the huge majority of concerned mothers who love their children, I will of course vaccinate MY CHILD! Parents who love their children vaccinate their children at a higher rate than people use deathbelts, after all!
I'm glad you will do for your child what I will do for mine and what other parents will do for theirs. :clap:

Same old MO. You don't address the issue. You circumvent it. You're such a fraud.
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  #7282  
Old 05-29-2017, 04:31 PM
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Default Re: Parents, do your due diligence on vaccination! There are serious risks!!

Quote:
You are not acknowledging that there could be a problem with this vaccine. You are in denial, that's why you're biased.
Not at all. I merely say that at this point there is no reason to assume there is such a problem, an opinion I base on our current state of research. Apparently, not agreeing with you = being biased.

Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vivisectus
Also, I never even mentioned the video. Now that you mention it and draw more attention to the execrable quality of your source, I would like to say that it is pretty disgusting to use this kind of suffering as a sort of outrage-porn.
Is it outrage-porn any time a side-effect of any drug that comes to market? What the hell Vivisectus!
No, using such videos in combination with blatant misinformation is a disgusting tactic, and those people should be ashamed of themselves. So should you, for spreading it without checking it for accuracy.

Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vivisectus
But so far I never said anything about that: I alluded only to the text and point out a) that it states things that are untrue (complete with the actual facts for your benefit) and b) that it makes wild unsupported claims.

Flaws you do not seem to care about at all. Even after they were pointed out to you. How odd!
Flaws? Where? You cannot handwave away the same symptoms seen over and over again in young girls who were unlucky enough to be the victims. So are you denying that syncope is a result of this vaccine; that POTS is a result of this vaccine; that infertility is a result of this vaccine; that getting cervical cancer is a result of this vaccine IN A SUBSET OF GIRLS who were perfectly healthy before getting the shot?
The flaws I have been pointing out to you? ChuckF thinks you are just unable to see anything that disagrees with your biases. I am starting to agree with him: you seem genuinely unable to process such information.

Remember where they got the numbers wrong right from the get-go?

You still have not even responded to that, by the way. You just keep doubling down on the stupid.

Quote:
You're dodging and I think you know it.
Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vivisectus
Not at all: I have engaged with your link, and checked the information it contained. Which turns out to be untrue, but you seem curiously uninterested in that. In fact so far you have not responded to the criticism at all, but in stead continue as if it does not exist.
Because the argument that the reactions seen are not due to this vaccine is total denial, and sad for the many girls who will become infertile, or worse, die without the medical profession acknowledging that this was due to the vaccine.
:lol: and this means that quoting a number more than 10 times higher than the reported one is ok?

But wait a minute - such information is what you base the opinion on that these are reactions to the vaccine and not something else!

So - you do not care that your source stated a blatant falsehood. Because your opinion is that vaccines DO cause the reactions. An opinion you base on your sources.

Nice circular logic there, Peacegirl! :)

Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vivisectus
So which behavior is better characterized as "dodging?"
Yours. Be true to yourself Vivisectus.
So when I point out a source you quopte contains a blatant falsehood that you refuse to address, I am somehow dodging?

:lol:

Quote:
Quote:
Why do you not care about the girls who have been injured or died as a result of this vaccine?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vivisectus
:lol: Why do you hate toddlers, Peacegirl? Do you not care about the thousands of them that are doomed to autism due to seatbelts?
Just shut up with this garbage, okay?
I suppose this is as compelling an argument as you have ever come up with.

Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vivisectus
My level of caring does not come in to it. I simply do not assume, without evidence, that the vaccine hurt them.

You should try it sometimes.
This is the problem; that you trust a limited study (or studies) and conclude that the onset of these illnesses have nothing to do with the vaccine. You are so blinded, it shows how conformist someone can be based on his belief that the "science" is settled and more accurate than a mother's testimony. :doh:
No, before I jump to a conclusion, I look at what research has been done and what the results are.

But thank you for mentioning "a mother's testimony".

Quote:
Quote:
Don't you see that it's a game of Russian Roulette?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vivisectus
:lol:

Sure. One with 9 million chambers, of which under 200 are loaded... so it seems it is actually safer than not playing, because the incidence of the diseases you fear is actually higher in the general population.

A fact that I pointed out. And that has now passed you by completely again as you spout the usual hysterics, rather than respond to the simple facts I have conveniently found for you.
Your premise contains an assumption that it is safer to get the shot than not. That is a logical fallacy. I may decide to fly on a plane with these small odds that a crash will occur, because if I want to get from A to B I have no other choice, but I am not obligated to give my child a shot that may not even be needed (your premise), and may cause undue harm to some. I am not willing to take that chance. There are other ways to protect oneself. Education is key.
If you read my posts, you will see I state the exact reverse: the lower incidence rate is what is sometimes called statistical noise. But I love the incoherent ramble that follows!

Please also to tell me the other ways to protect oneself from HPV through education.

Quote:
Quote:
Why wouldn't you look at the risks that are associated with this vaccine?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vivisectus
I did. I looked it all up. I then even provided links to the associated studies so you could check them.
It's the same thing you use to determine the risks with the MMR, or other vaccines. You refuse to look at the clinical data because that's not important to you, yet in every appointment with a good doctor, the first thing they want to know is your history and what you, who are closest to your child, have observed.
:lol: you mean such clinical data as the actual number of reactions reported? Which your source got wrong?

Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vivisectus
You however, seem to have forgotten to look up the actual facts before happily jumping to your conclusions. In fact, you seem unable to respond to the facts even now I have served them up on a plate for you!

And yet you happily accuse other people of not wanting to look at the facts. Does that not strike you as a bit hypocritical?
I try to look at the facts, but I'm not convinced that the benefits outweigh the risks. You served me a bunch of studies that are limited in scope and are often misleading. They cannot test for all variables in all populations when it comes to health outcomes. Why are you so bent on believing that this is a slam dunk? You admitted you don't even believe children have been hurt by this vaccine. You cannot be serious. This makes me very distrustful of your judgment. This, to me, is an unwillingless to even hear anything that contravenes what you have convinced yourself is absolute truth.
How are the studies too limited for conclusions? What made you declare them misleading?

The answer: you never read them. You just do not like their conclusions.

As for not believing they were hurt by vaccines, that is not exactly my point of view. I do believe that our current state of knowledge suggests there is no causal connection between gardasil and the motley collection of diseases you claim it causes.

Which ones are these, again, by the way? There seem to be so many!

Quote:
Quote:
The studies may be objective, but they are narrow in scope, and may be leaving out data that suggests the risks may be too great.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vivisectus
If we can freely speculate then anything is possible. If we stick to known facts, however, then we see that the rate at which girls experience the symptoms described is actually lower than those in the general population.
Maybe so, but their experiences matter. Why are you dissing them, as if only the girls who did well count. Don't you care about the girls who did not do well and got deathly sick?
:lol: Have you been at the sauce again?

I am pointing out that the people who took the vaccine actually had a lower incidence rate of the diseases the article claimed were caused by the vaccine.

If the vaccine was responsible, would you not expect to at least see a few more? In a sample size of close to 9 million?

Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vivisectus
Has it sunk in this time? I really do not see how I can break it down for you even further.
Stop patronizing me.
You are not making it easy on me, since you still do not seem to get it.

Quote:
Quote:
Can you imagine a young girl becoming infertile because of this jab? Can you imagine a girl not being able to control her blood pressure when standing as a condition she will now have to live with for the rest of her life? Can you imagine how a parent would feel knowing they did this to their child thinking it was the right thing to do?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vivisectus
Lets see - lots of loaded language and assorted nonsense. Let me give it a go too: Can you imagine seeing your child revert to autism the moment it is strapped into an autism belt?

Sure you can - but why would you?
This response makes me upset. To suggest that these illnesses are imaginary, or have nothing to do with the vaccine, is doing a disservice to all those girls who will now have to live with permanent damage, and it's cruel.
Is your denial of seatbelt-related autism a disservice to the poor children who now have to live with autism? Why do you hate children who got autism from seatbelts, peacegirl?

:lol:

Quote:
Sorry, but I don't care what the studies conclude.
:lol:

We know. That is what makes your opinions and your hamfisted attempts to justify them so funny.

Quote:
They do not trump the complaints of devastation that have occurred from this vaccine. Call it coincidence if you must, but I have the right to do what I believe is best for my family. You have the right to do what's best for your family. I pray for all parents that they have the intuition and wisdom to make the best decision possible for their family.
Yes - you feel intuition trumps careful research. That is why no amount of facts are ever going to change your mind... while you accuse everyone else of being biased. That seems to be the anti-vaxx position in a nutshell.
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  #7283  
Old 05-29-2017, 04:39 PM
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Default Re: Parents, do your due diligence on vaccination! There are serious risks!!

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Same old MO. You don't address the issue. You circumvent it. You're such a fraud.
The issue is: Do you agree with your source that "There is no debating the existence of chemtrails."?
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  #7284  
Old 05-29-2017, 04:42 PM
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Default Re: Parents, do your due diligence on vaccination! There are serious risks!!

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Quote:
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Same old MO. You don't address the issue. You circumvent it. You're such a fraud.
The issue is: Do you agree with your source that "There is no debating the existence of chemtrails."?
The chemtrail issue isn't even one of their current campaigns. You cannot use this against them if you're going to be fair.

Campaigns - Alliance for Natural Health International

What are chemtrails, and are they dangerous? | MNN - Mother Nature Network
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Last edited by peacegirl; 05-29-2017 at 04:58 PM.
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  #7285  
Old 05-29-2017, 04:57 PM
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Default Re: Parents, do your due diligence on vaccination! There are serious risks!!

There's a serious lesson here. peacegirl's trusted sources prove conclusively that there is a strong correlation between conspiracy-minded crackpot racist lunacy and anti-vaxxism. As the Lord God Andy tells us, correlation = causation absent definitive proof to the contrary.

Therefore, is it undeniably true that conspiracy-minded crackpot racist lunacy causes anti-vaxxism. :yup:
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  #7286  
Old 05-29-2017, 05:09 PM
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Default Re: Parents, do your due diligence on vaccination! There are serious risks!!

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Originally Posted by Stephen Maturin View Post
There's a serious lesson here. peacegirl's trusted sources prove conclusively that there is a strong correlation between conspiracy-minded crackpot racist lunacy and anti-vaxxism. As the Lord God Andy tells us, correlation = causation absent definitive proof to the contrary.

Therefore, is it undeniably true that conspiracy-minded crackpot racist lunacy causes anti-vaxxism. :yup:
Correlation does not necessarily equal causation but if there is evidence that a trace mineral may pose a health risk, it may not be worth imbibing. Maturin, if you want to swallow fluoride, be my guest, but that doesn't mean I have to.

Fluoride Is a Neurotoxin: 9 Ways It Harms Your Brain | Be Brain Fit
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  #7287  
Old 05-29-2017, 05:52 PM
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Default Re: Parents, do your due diligence on vaccination! There are serious risks!!

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Originally Posted by ChuckF View Post
I do not give a fuck what you believe or to whom you listen, peacegirl. You are an ignorant parasite. You are incredibly dumb. You believe that we don't see with eyes, because your dad said so. I have no interest whatsoever in changing that, because it is useful to me.

I serve concerned parents doing their due diligence by demonstrating this, and making you say ridiculous things.
Quote:
Originally Posted by peacegirl View Post
Correlation does not necessarily equal causation but if there is evidence that a trace mineral may pose a health risk, it may not be worth imbibing. Maturin, if you want to swallow fluoride, be my guest, but that doesn't mean I have to.

Fluoride Is a Neurotoxin: 9 Ways It Harms Your Brain | Be Brain Fit
Yes, like that!

Concerned parents, take note :yup:
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  #7288  
Old 05-29-2017, 05:56 PM
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Default Re: Parents, do your due diligence on vaccination! There are serious risks!!

:lol:

peacegirl is on another bullshit posting spree!
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  #7289  
Old 05-29-2017, 06:14 PM
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Default Re: Parents, do your due diligence on vaccination! There are serious risks!!

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChuckF View Post
I do not give a fuck what you believe or to whom you listen, peacegirl. You are an ignorant parasite. You are incredibly dumb. You believe that we don't see with eyes, because your dad said so. I have no interest whatsoever in changing that, because it is useful to me.

I serve concerned parents doing their due diligence by demonstrating this, and making you say ridiculous things.
Quote:
Originally Posted by peacegirl View Post
Correlation does not necessarily equal causation but if there is evidence that a trace mineral may pose a health risk, it may not be worth imbibing. Maturin, if you want to swallow fluoride, be my guest, but that doesn't mean I have to.

Fluoride Is a Neurotoxin: 9 Ways It Harms Your Brain | Be Brain Fit
Yes, like that!

Concerned parents, take note :yup:

Water Fluoridation: A Critical Review of the Physiological Effects of Ingested Fluoride as a Public Health Intervention

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  #7290  
Old 05-29-2017, 06:29 PM
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Default Re: Parents, do your due diligence on vaccination! There are serious risks!!

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Correlation does not necessarily equal causation
peacegirl, do you disagree with peacegirl when she writes, "So yes correlation = causation until proven otherwise"?
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  #7291  
Old 05-29-2017, 06:42 PM
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Default Re: Parents, do your due diligence on vaccination! There are serious risks!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen Maturin View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by peacegirl View Post
Correlation does not necessarily equal causation
peacegirl, do you disagree with peacegirl when she writes, "So yes correlation = causation until proven otherwise"?
Correlation does not equal causation. What I meant in that post was that if there is a close association between a vaccine with known risks and a serious reaction that follows shortly thereafter, the reaction should be taken seriously. This may be a warning sign not to give a child another dose of the same vaccine, which could prevent permanent damage.
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  #7292  
Old 05-29-2017, 06:59 PM
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Default Re: Parents, do your due diligence on vaccination! There are serious risks!!

:laugh:

Paul Webber, the same New American News (:lol:) author who penned the outrage porn article on Gardisil that has peacegirl so worked up, wrote on May 22, 2017 that "Robert Califf is the new FDA commissioner." In truth, Trump nominee Dr. Scott Gottlieb became the new FDA commissioner on May 11, a full eleven days before Webber published his article. Dr. Califf is the former FDA commissioner who Gottlieb succeeded.

By way of reminder, Gottlieb has MASSIVE financial ties to Big Pharma and testified during his confirmation hearing that:

Quote:
This has been one of the most exhaustively studied questions in scientific history. We need to come to the point where we can accept no for an answer and come to the conclusion that there is no causal link between vaccination and autism. We’ve invested, and Congress has invested, enormous resources in studying this question.
Trump trolled the everloving shit out of peacegirl and the other anti-vaxx idiots. :wave:

But more to the point, is it at all possible that New American News (:lol:) author Paul Webber is an ill-informed fool? Just putting it out there. After all, being an ill-informed fool would explain how he got the identity of the current FDA commissioner wrong and made those factual errors in the outrage porn Gardisil article.
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  #7293  
Old 05-29-2017, 07:37 PM
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Default Re: Parents, do your due diligence on vaccination! There are serious risks!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen Maturin View Post
:laugh:

Paul Webber, the same New American News (:lol:) author who penned the outrage porn article on Gardisil that has peacegirl so worked up, wrote on May 22, 2017 that "Robert Califf is the new FDA commissioner." In truth, Trump nominee Dr. Scott Gottlieb became the new FDA commissioner on May 11, a full eleven days before Webber published his article. Dr. Califf is the former FDA commissioner who Gottlieb succeeded.

By way of reminder, Gottlieb has MASSIVE financial ties to Big Pharma and testified during his confirmation hearing that:

Quote:
This has been one of the most exhaustively studied questions in scientific history. We need to come to the point where we can accept no for an answer and come to the conclusion that there is no causal link between vaccination and autism. We’ve invested, and Congress has invested, enormous resources in studying this question.
Trump trolled the everloving shit out of peacegirl and the other anti-vaxx idiots. :wave:

But more to the point, is it at all possible that New American News (:lol:) author Paul Webber is an ill-informed fool? Just putting it out there. After all, being an ill-informed fool would explain how he got the identity of the current FDA commissioner wrong and made those factual errors in the outrage porn Gardisil article.
https://www.facebook.com/CancerTruth...o9HqLA&theater
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  #7294  
Old 05-30-2017, 09:28 AM
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Default Re: Parents, do your due diligence on vaccination! There are serious risks!!

Quote:
if there is a close association between a vaccine with known risks and a serious reaction that follows shortly thereafter
But then if there is a close association between seatbelt use (with known risks) and a serious reaction such as autism or diabetes that follows shortly thereafter, it should be taken seriously too, surely? What is sauce for the goose that lays the golden eggs should not call the kettle black, after all.
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  #7295  
Old 05-30-2017, 11:56 AM
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Default Re: Parents, do your due diligence on vaccination! There are serious risks!!

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Quote:
if there is a close association between a vaccine with known risks and a serious reaction that follows shortly thereafter
But then if there is a close association between seatbelt use (with known risks) and a serious reaction such as autism or diabetes that follows shortly thereafter, it should be taken seriously too, surely? What is sauce for the goose that lays the golden eggs should not call the kettle black, after all.
If enough children started vomiting and passing out right after they clicked on their seatbelts (even before the car was in gear), that would be a strong indicator that a chemical in the seatbelt was causing the reaction. I wouldn't just ignore it because there's no causative proof.
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Old 05-30-2017, 12:12 PM
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Default Re: Parents, do your due diligence on vaccination! There are serious risks!!

:lol:

If a chemical in a seatbelt caused you to vomit, you probably wouldn't need to "click it on".
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  #7297  
Old 05-30-2017, 01:27 PM
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Default Re: Parents, do your due diligence on vaccination! There are serious risks!!

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:lol:

If a chemical in a seatbelt caused you to vomit, you probably wouldn't need to "click it on".
You're probably right.
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Old 05-30-2017, 01:52 PM
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Default Re: Parents, do your due diligence on vaccination! There are serious risks!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by peacegirl View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vivisectus View Post
Quote:
if there is a close association between a vaccine with known risks and a serious reaction that follows shortly thereafter
But then if there is a close association between seatbelt use (with known risks) and a serious reaction such as autism or diabetes that follows shortly thereafter, it should be taken seriously too, surely? What is sauce for the goose that lays the golden eggs should not call the kettle black, after all.
If enough children started vomiting and passing out right after they clicked on their seatbelts (even before the car was in gear), that would be a strong indicator that a chemical in the seatbelt was causing the reaction. I wouldn't just ignore it because there's no causative proof.
Right - so we are talking seconds here? Whereas if it takes a little longer, then not so much?
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Old 06-01-2017, 12:01 AM
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Stephen Maturin Stephen Maturin is offline
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Default Re: Parents, do your due diligence on vaccination! There are serious risks!!

Breaking News: Trace amounts of Covfefe found in childhood vaccines
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  #7300  
Old 06-03-2017, 10:14 PM
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Default Tell Me peacegirl

Do you go to a sinful evilutionist doctor who believes diseases are caused by tiny, imaginary creatures we can't see, or do you believe with the righteous that diseases are caused by SIN and DEMONS ?

If the first, you doubt your Bible and you're going to HELL. If the second, then you're a good Khrischin who worships the football Jesus.


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