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  #576  
Old 10-17-2014, 01:22 AM
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Default Re: Springtime for Geek Girls?

Fun fact: while USU can't seem to do anything about the State's open carry laws, they are quite firm on the question of nerf guns on campus. Can't have them. Want to have a nerf gun fight with all your friends? Gotta book the gym that's all by itself in one building and have the police lock the doors after everyone's in until you're done. No seriously.

If only the terrorist had threatened to shoot everyone with nerf guns, campus police would've been all over that shit.
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  #577  
Old 10-17-2014, 04:17 AM
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Default Re: Springtime for Geek Girls?

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Originally Posted by lisarea View Post
I imagine (or again, hope) that a lot of kids are going to get grounded and have their toys taken away from them, and maybe their parents and teachers and others will address this as what it is--dumb, spoiled children being recruited by domestic terrorists--and use whatever tools necessary to deprogram them and help them learn to be actual, productive, useful humans.

As to the adults involved, their friends, family, employers, etc., will maybe become more aware of just how unhinged they are and start treating them accordingly.
Hope is a beautiful and awful thing. I really don't get how these people got grown without many people kicking their ass in myriad ways, or taking all their shit away, or stopping providing for them due to their hate and vileness...but it seems to me that if some adult has been paying attention and giving a fuck, these kids wouldn't be walking around making rape and death threats over video games.
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  #578  
Old 10-17-2014, 08:48 PM
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Default Re: Springtime for Geek Girls?

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  #579  
Old 10-18-2014, 12:35 AM
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Default Re: Springtime for Geek Girls?

I think the response to Gone Home by the 'gamer community' and gamergate has been pretty revealing. There's constantly talk from the community about adults taking gaming seriously and whining about AAA clone games and yet as soon as gaming tries to do something even slightly different or someone questions them in anyway their man-panties get all in a twist and they fly off the handle. There are many that really want it both ways, they want to be taken seriously as adults but not challenged in anyway an adult might feel challenged. Basically the 'community' is stuck in juvenile land where they want to be treated like adults but how dare you ask them to take out the trash, "You just don't understand me Mom/Dad/society!" The sad thing is that many of these people are actual adults in age but are so busy appealing to their juvenile community that they've never mentally grown beyond whining about how unfair it is that someone doesn't agree they are always right.

While many blame developers and giant corporations it really suggests to me that the large amount of crap in current video gaming is due to the community itself, they thrash so hard at anything different that real developers just throw up their hands and say 'fine, here's another prechewed knock off, you'll bitch about it, but will still swallow it and ask for seconds, what do we care?' It also explains so much of the content of current games, they are fantasy ego simulators. In the game world you are always this amazing bad ass who is basically spoon fed his bad ass abilities in a way that makes you feel powerful without actually doing anything to gain that power, just push the right buttons at the right time and both women and godly powers are magically granted to you.

Or in other words, the current set of AAA games is basically selling hyper white male privilege because gamers have a tantrum if they try to do anything else.

It's sad that many gamers have spent years trying to convince the public they are something more than angry pathetic loners playing childish games and the community at large has basically said "nuh uh, we're childish assholes, and if you say anything mean about us, we'll blow up your school!"
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  #580  
Old 10-18-2014, 01:01 AM
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Default Re: Springtime for Geek Girls?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kael View Post
Fun fact: while USU can't seem to do anything about the State's open carry laws, they are quite firm on the question of nerf guns on campus. Can't have them. Want to have a nerf gun fight with all your friends? Gotta book the gym that's all by itself in one building and have the police lock the doors after everyone's in until you're done. No seriously.

If only the terrorist had threatened to shoot everyone with nerf guns, campus police would've been all over that shit.
How does that work? Does the right to hear arms not include nerf? Has someone contacted the NRA about this travesty?
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  #581  
Old 10-18-2014, 06:27 AM
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Default Re: Springtime for Geek Girls?

I liked Gone Home. But I can totally see that it wouldn't be the main stream gamer's cup of tea. But some of the reactions I have seen are just ridiculous. It is like if a guy looking for an action flick accidentally wondered into a rom-com, but instead of just leaving and finding a movie he would like he freaks out and starts yelling obscenities and threats. If they wouldn't do that for a movie, why do they do that in response to a video game?
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  #582  
Old 10-18-2014, 06:35 AM
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Default Re: Springtime for Geek Girls?

Indeed, I've read some responses that are basically "I read the reviews, bought the game and played all the way through it, it was just what the reviews said... I want my money and time back!" It's like well if you read the reviews, then still bought it and played the game, is it really the developers fault you're so stupid as to waste your time with something you clearly don't like?
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  #583  
Old 10-20-2014, 05:46 AM
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Default Re: Springtime for Geek Girls?

Anita Sarkeesian on GamerGate: 'We Have a Problem and We're Going to Fix This'
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  #584  
Old 10-20-2014, 03:19 PM
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Default Re: Springtime for Geek Girls?

Why do so many people not understand what censorship and free speech actually are? Sorry I read the comments.
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  #585  
Old 10-20-2014, 05:00 PM
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Default Re: Springtime for Geek Girls?

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Originally Posted by LadyShea View Post
Sorry I read the comments.
I forgive you.
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  #586  
Old 10-20-2014, 06:10 PM
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Default Re: Springtime for Geek Girls?

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  #587  
Old 10-20-2014, 08:40 PM
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Default Re: Springtime for Geek Girls?

Quote:
Originally Posted by LadyShea View Post
Why do so many people not understand what censorship and free speech actually are? Sorry I read the comments.
Those comments are fun, I like the action. Its some awesome misogynist bingo.
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  #588  
Old 10-20-2014, 10:14 PM
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Default Re: Springtime for Geek Girls?

The irony is that they just keep demonstrating her point with their comments.
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  #589  
Old 10-20-2014, 11:50 PM
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Default Re: Springtime for Geek Girls?

Indeed, and it seems that many didn't even read the short article.
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  #590  
Old 10-20-2014, 11:51 PM
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Default Re: Springtime for Geek Girls?

Quote:
Originally Posted by beyelzu View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by LadyShea View Post
Why do so many people not understand what censorship and free speech actually are? Sorry I read the comments.
Those comments are fun, I like the action. Its some awesome misogynist bingo.
Also, I know that's easy for me to say, all safe and warm in thickass privilege.
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  #591  
Old 10-21-2014, 02:21 AM
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Default Re: Springtime for Geek Girls?

Only actual evidence I've seen against Anita Sarkeesian:


Starts at 27:20...

Anita says she's not a fan of video games, even though in more recent videos she says she has played video games since she was little, and presents herself as at least a fairly frequent video game player.

Now, it's possible that she meant she's not a "video game fan" per se but she still likes certain video games, or she was talking about that type of video game, or she's saying she's not part of the appropriate "fandom", or whatever. There are different things someone might mean by that. I would definitely call myself a fan of video games, and I've played well over a hundred in my life, but yet I would not really identify myself as a "gamer", since I play less than I used to and it's not my primary identity. And I very well might have said something different in high school. But if I said "I'm not a gamer" it would be wildly off-base to assume that I don't like video games and don't have extensive experience with them. So there is definitely a lot more ambiguity as to the implications of that statement than the gamergate twits would admit. And even if she was exaggerating her relationship to video games, that's not really that big of a scandal, and it certainly doesn't justify their actions, or even make her a corrupt professional victim just in it for the money and trying to destroy video games.

And the fact is that her arguments aren't really dependent on her being an avid video game player. But even so, there seems to be some inconsistency between that and what she says elsewhere.

So yeah. A video from 4 years ago where she makes an ambiguous statement vs. you know... all the rest of it.

Last edited by erimir; 10-21-2014 at 02:33 AM.
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  #592  
Old 10-21-2014, 03:31 AM
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Default Re: Springtime for Geek Girls?

I keep hearing, even from people that say they come down on her side against the threats, that her work is "poorly researched" and has been "thoroughly rebutted/debunked," but I can't find anything that isn't filled with reactionary bullshit like "oh, well games are sexist against men too," and other tripe. Even if legit criticism is out there, it's been totally drowned out by the most blatant a sorts of misogyny and threats.

I think if she wasn't saying anything meaningful, wasn't hitting the mark to some degree or another, she'd never have exploded onto the national scene like that. Lots of people say stupid and incorrect things on YouTube all the time, most of them are deservedly ignored. Most people don't bother harassing them or threatening them, or threatening to shoot up or bomb speaking engagements they might land. The reaction against her work, perhaps more so than the work itself, inclines me to believe that the things she's saying need to be said, louder and more often.
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  #593  
Old 10-21-2014, 03:47 AM
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Default Re: Springtime for Geek Girls?

It basically all started when she put up a kickstarter looking for around $10K to produce her series and ended up with around $160K. The idea that people would give her money to make these videos and thus that she was backed by actual viewers and not just posting random videos onto youtube for people to stumble over) sent the asshats into over drive. It was proof that they needed to silence her because people were actually listening, and nothing scares juvenile misogynists more than people actually listening to women talk about real issues.
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  #594  
Old 10-21-2014, 03:49 AM
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Default Re: Springtime for Geek Girls?

It's curious that the same fanatics who want games to be considered art can't handle even the cursory criticism that Anita Sarkeesian provides. She's said it in nearly every Tropes versus video she's produced: You can enjoy something and be critical of it at the same time. Liking a thing doesn't mean you're giving it a pass on what can be considered its more problematic nature. It's almost like they're not even listening to what she's saying.
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  #595  
Old 10-21-2014, 04:54 AM
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Default Re: Springtime for Geek Girls?

Exactly.

She never says anything about all games being sexist, or even explicitly says that particular games are sexist on the whole (although in many cases she would be justified in doing so). She doesn't say the games have no redeeming qualities. In certain cases, she notes that particular tropes are not inherently sexist, but it is the repetition of the trope across many games and the lack of other female representations which is problematic.

In other words, some of the tropes are sexist no matter the context, while some of these tropes are only problems statistically. A movie not passing the Bechtel test is not necessarily sexist, and it's not necessarily a problem anymore than a movie not passing the reverse Bechtel test is automatically misandrist - but movies not passing the Bechtel test are far more common than the opposite, which is what the problem is.

She never says that gamers are sexist woman-haters for enjoying these games. She never says anything should be done to gamers.

She never says anything about wanting to censor games, or wanting to change the ratings system, or pass any laws at all.

Yet almost every single critic I've seen claims she has condemned games or gamers this way, and most of them claim that somehow allowing her to critique games in this way will lead to government censorship, directly making a slippery slope argument (point out the fact that censorship of video games due to violence has been struck down by SCOTUS and any censorship based on claims of sexism would almost certainly meet the same fate and they will... just pretend you didn't say that).

I also don't remember any of them admitting that any of her criticisms have any validity. As if their position is that not only are video games not sexist on the whole, but no video games have sexist portrayals.
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  #596  
Old 10-21-2014, 07:13 AM
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Default Re: Springtime for Geek Girls?

I was speaking to someone in the comments of rolling stone who complained that if not for the lies, hype and hysteria of Anita and her side, they would be taken more serious.

I explained that he is doing his side no favors with the term hysteria and that it was problematic and I explained why.

He told me that he didn't find it problematic because he was using it socially and not individually. Srsly.

They don't listen. They trot out the same tired arguments over and over while acting like it's some sort unanswerable anti feminist silver bullet.

I see a massive amount if mansplaining and ignoring facts.

They accuse her of fabricating the threats and assert that her arguments are debunked. When pressed for proof they will demand proof that she has been threatened or say it's an easy google search.

It's just really puerile. It would probably be uproariously funny if not for the actual violence and threats of violence.
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  #597  
Old 10-21-2014, 01:45 PM
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Default Re: Springtime for Geek Girls?

What I don't get is that, when pressed for this "plenty of evidence*", they post a video by The Factual Feminist, who is not a gamer at all, giving her opinion that is different from Sarkeesian's.

How is another opinion evidence of anything at all? Oh, that's right, it's not.

*Evidence of what, you might ask...no idea. Apparently evidence that Sarkeesian is a very bad person.
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  #598  
Old 10-21-2014, 02:51 PM
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Default Re: Springtime for Geek Girls?

Evidence of their hurt feelings.
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Old 10-22-2014, 09:18 PM
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erimir erimir is offline
Projecting my phallogos with long, hard diction
 
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Default Re: Springtime for Geek Girls?

A Summary Of The Gamergate Movement That We Will Immediately Change If Any Of Its Members Find Any Details Objectionable | ClickHole
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  #600  
Old 10-22-2014, 09:24 PM
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Ari Ari is offline
I read some of your foolish scree, then just skimmed the rest.
 
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Default Re: Springtime for Geek Girls?

It's been amusing watching the gamergaters shoot themselves in the foot on the Rolling Stones comments section.

Gamergate is totally not misogynistic or hateful, and to prove it, here's a link to an MRA site factually proving bitches be lying gold diggers you fucking moron!
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