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  #26  
Old 02-02-2011, 10:08 PM
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Default Re: There Are No Standards or Oversight for Pathologists in the US

This is utterly bizarre. In Australia to be a laboratory pathologist you have to have a bachelor degree and be a member of the Australian Institute of Medical Scientists (AIMS). To be a scene of crime officer (SOCO) you have to have a minimum of a Bachelor of Forensic Science and a sworn police officer and to be a medical examiner you have to be a doctor. Standards all the way down.

You Americans are fucking crazy. I always thought that voting for a cop was freaking weird, but voting for a ME? What the hell?
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  #27  
Old 02-02-2011, 10:40 PM
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Default Re: There Are No Standards or Oversight for Pathologists in the US

I'll have to ask my dad about how it works here, as he was SOCO for a number of years.
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  #28  
Old 02-02-2011, 10:40 PM
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Default Re: There Are No Standards or Oversight for Pathologists in the US

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deadlokd View Post
You Americans are fucking crazy.
:nod:

Also stupid.
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  #29  
Old 02-03-2011, 12:01 AM
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Default Re: There Are No Standards or Oversight for Pathologists in the US

I'd like genuinely democratic standards and oversight, with the process welcoming bright young people whose idealism hasn't been sucked out by corporate culture, and who don't let bullshit slide by.
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  #30  
Old 02-03-2011, 12:12 AM
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Default Re: There Are No Standards or Oversight for Pathologists in the US

I'd like standards and oversight that require medical examiners to have extensive experience in pathology, proven skills and scientifically rigorous processes. The top forensic pathologists in this country got there by working hard and producing consistent, reliable results for a long time, not by being dewy-eyed and dreaming dreams.
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  #31  
Old 02-03-2011, 12:15 AM
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Default Re: There Are No Standards or Oversight for Pathologists in the US

Why "democratic" standards and oversight? What has "corporate culture" got to do with anything?

I wouldn't want bright young people full of idealistic hubris in the role of Coroner/Medical Examiner at all!

Unelected, scientifically studied, dispassionate truth seekers, with many years of experience behind them is a far better option for such a role, imo. You can't just let young (or old) big mouths, who think they know it all, play with people's lives like that.
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  #32  
Old 02-03-2011, 12:17 AM
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Default Re: There Are No Standards or Oversight for Pathologists in the US

In other words, what liv said! (And said better)
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  #33  
Old 02-03-2011, 12:27 AM
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Default Re: There Are No Standards or Oversight for Pathologists in the US

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cliche Guevara View Post
I'll have to ask my dad about how it works here, as he was SOCO for a number of years.
Please do. I'd be really interested to hear about his experiences, any changes in standards and oversight during his years on the job, what he thinks the basic skill set and education should be for people in the field.
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  #34  
Old 02-03-2011, 04:00 AM
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Default Re: There Are No Standards or Oversight for Pathologists in the US

So... an idea for a show: like CSI, except all the people investigating are politicians who don't know shit.
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  #35  
Old 02-03-2011, 04:01 AM
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Default Re: There Are No Standards or Oversight for Pathologists in the US

Also drunks and lisarea's hillbilly cousin.
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  #36  
Old 02-03-2011, 04:03 AM
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Default Re: There Are No Standards or Oversight for Pathologists in the US

"I'll create a GUI interface using Visual Basic to track the IP address."
"Durr, what does that even mean, hurr?"
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  #37  
Old 02-03-2011, 04:04 AM
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Default Re: There Are No Standards or Oversight for Pathologists in the US

and zombies... with flamethrowers.
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  #38  
Old 02-03-2011, 04:12 AM
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Default Re: There Are No Standards or Oversight for Pathologists in the US

Okay this is going to be way, way better than CSI.
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  #39  
Old 02-03-2011, 04:41 AM
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Default Re: There Are No Standards or Oversight for Pathologists in the US

It's not very clear, but in Oregon "Pathologist” means a physician holding a current license to practice medicine and surgery and who is eligible for certification by the American Board of Pathology."

So doctor with a certificate, hopefully not one of the Rand Paul make-it-yourself certificates.

Also they are selected by a board that consists of,..."The advisory board shall recommend the name or names of pathologists to the Superintendent of State Police from which the superintendent shall appoint the State Medical Examiner.

(4) The State Medical Examiner Advisory Board shall consist of 10 members appointed by the Governor and shall include:

(a) The Chairman of the Department of Anatomic Pathology at the Oregon Health and Science University, who shall be the chairperson of the board;

(b) The State Health Officer;

(c) A sheriff;

(d) A trauma physician recommended by the State Trauma Advisory Board;

(e) A pathologist;

(f) A district attorney;

(g) A funeral service practitioner and embalmer licensed by the State Mortuary and Cemetery Board;

(h) A chief of police;

(i) A member of the defense bar; and

(j) A member of the public at large." (from http://www.leg.state.or.us/ors/146.html)

So it's more like "American Top Pathologists"!
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  #40  
Old 02-03-2011, 06:04 AM
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Default Re: There Are No Standards or Oversight for Pathologists in the US

Historically in Rhode Island, the only qualification for being the coroner was to be the eldest justice of the peace in the town, a position which itself had few qualifications other than being appointed by the General Assembly. I have always been intrigued by somewhat frequent references in 19th century town meeting records to a "body found in the road." These are invariably identified as a person "of color," and the greatest attention in the record was to the reimbursement for the cost of burial. Given the utter lack of qualifications for coroners, the frequency of such incidents in the records and the low regard for persons "of color" at the time, I have often wondered that behind the seeming lackadaisical investigation if there wasn't something a bit more sinister going on.

Doesn't seem like much has changed since then in this regard.
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  #41  
Old 02-03-2011, 07:26 AM
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Default Re: There Are No Standards or Oversight for Pathologists in the US

CDC has a pretty good set of info pages Medical Examiner and Coroner Information Sharing Program

AL has a mixed system, the counties have elected coroners, the state has appointed Medical Examiners
Quote:
Qualifications:

* Coroner--no specific statutory provision.
* State Medical Examiner--physician licensed to practice medicine in Alabama and board certified in forensic pathology.
Quote:
Deaths Investigated:

* Coroner--All deaths where the deceased died without being attended by a legally qualified physician.
* State Medical Examiner--
o If the person dies by violence of homicide, suicide, accidental or industrial.
o Criminal abortion.
o Sudden death, if in apparent good health.
o In suspicious circumstances.
o When a public health hazard.
o If the body is to be cremated.
Yeah, any idiot off the street can be a coroner here. Maybe I'll run
Quote:
Coroner qualifications.

(a) No person shall be eligible to hold the office of coroner unless he or she meets the following qualifications:

(1) Is a citizen of the United States.

(2) Is a resident in the county in which he or she seeks the office of coroner for at least one year prior to his or her qualifying for election to the office and remains a resident of the county during his or her term of office.

(3) Is a registered voter.

(4) Has attained the age of 25 years prior to the date of the general primary election in the year that he or she qualifies for election to the office.

(5) Has obtained a high school diploma or its recognized equivalent.

(6) Has not been convicted of a felony offense or any offense involving moral turpitude contrary to the laws of Alabama, or any other state, or the United States.

(7) Has successfully completed the next scheduled training course no longer than 180 days after his or her election or appointment, unless an affidavit affirms that the requirement of this subdivision has been met at the time of qualifying for the office.

(b) Each person offering his or her candidacy for the office of coroner shall file an affidavit with the judge of probate before whom the person has qualified to seek the office of coroner prior to or at the time of qualifying, which affidavit shall affirm that he or she meets all the qualifications required pursuant to this section.
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  #42  
Old 02-03-2011, 07:40 AM
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Default Re: There Are No Standards or Oversight for Pathologists in the US

I bet you'd be a lot better at it than previous office holders.
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  #43  
Old 02-03-2011, 07:52 AM
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Default Re: There Are No Standards or Oversight for Pathologists in the US

It looks like they just check out people that died from natural, predicted causes at someplace other than hospice or hospital, like old sick people who die in their sleep, and only then if it isn't "suspicious" or "sudden".

I doubt they get many calls, as I think most people either die in a facility or in accidents.
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  #44  
Old 02-03-2011, 03:15 PM
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Default Re: There Are No Standards or Oversight for Pathologists in the US

Watch out, though. When a woman ran for coroner back home, people were all "Why would a woman want to do that?" "I just can't believe she'd want to." blah, blah.
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  #45  
Old 02-03-2011, 05:17 PM
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Default Re: There Are No Standards or Oversight for Pathologists in the US

Quote:
Originally Posted by erimir View Post
So... an idea for a show: like CSI, except all the people investigating are politicians who don't know shit.
I would totally watch that show.

Coroner is an elected post here as well. I've always told people that my dream is to run and get elected on the platform that I'd be willing to pronounce whomever you want legally dead for a small bribe.
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  #46  
Old 02-03-2011, 06:49 PM
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Default Re: There Are No Standards or Oversight for Pathologists in the US

Seriously, that sounds like a great idea for a show. Or a variant: Main character is an elected coroner who doesn't know shit, and won the election, against a more qualified candidate, via sleazy politicking. During the course of the show s/he has to investigate a sudden outbreak of murders, which could be the work of a serial killer, or might be committed by multiple individuals. S/he has no earthly idea which, and tries frantically to cover up his/her own incompetence while simultaneously seeking help anywhere available -- the Internet, clandestine calls to pathologists, etc. Eventually s/he tries to pin a murder on the most likely suspect, then discovers after an arrest is made that it's definitely the wrong guy. And so on.

Sold to the studio execs as "CSI meets The Shield." :rich:
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  #47  
Old 02-03-2011, 06:50 PM
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Default Re: There Are No Standards or Oversight for Pathologists in the US

:mutter: zombies
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  #48  
Old 02-03-2011, 06:55 PM
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Default Re: There Are No Standards or Oversight for Pathologists in the US

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sock Puppet View Post
Seriously, that sounds like a great idea for a show. Or a variant: Main character is an elected coroner who doesn't know shit, and won the election, against a more qualified candidate, via sleazy politicking. During the course of the show s/he has to investigate a sudden outbreak of murders, which could be the work of a serial killer, or might be committed by multiple individuals. S/he has no earthly idea which, and tries frantically to cover up his/her own incompetence while simultaneously seeking help anywhere available -- the Internet, clandestine calls to pathologists, etc. Eventually s/he tries to pin a murder on the most likely suspect, then discovers after an arrest is made that it's definitely the wrong guy. And so on.

Sold to the studio execs as "CSI meets The Shield." :rich:

:butters:

Well, sort of. It was waste management instead of forensic pathology, but they're more or less the same discipline, right?
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  #49  
Old 02-03-2011, 06:57 PM
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Default Re: There Are No Standards or Oversight for Pathologists in the US

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ymir's blood View Post
:mutter: zombies
Season two: the victims of season one's rash of homicides rise from the grave with an insatiable craving for ignorant coroner brains. Once they devour our anti-heroine, they move on to other states with elected coroners and gorge hungrily on their shiny smooth cortexes. Their advance can only be stopped by a certain research-freak lady coroner in Alabama who may not be a doctor, but bitch can and will kick zombie ass.
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  #50  
Old 02-03-2011, 06:58 PM
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Default Re: There Are No Standards or Oversight for Pathologists in the US

Me and Kiddo practice anti-Zombie combat regularly! I am strapped and ready!
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